How US Citizens Can Live in Europe (Schengen) Forever, Legally, Without a Visa
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jasond · 2013-12-23 04:29:00 · #1
The Poland Loophole:
I had posted on this earlier, and Roosh had also mentioned it briefly in one of his e-books.
Most people believe that US Citizens can only stay in Europe (the EU Schengen area) for 90 out of every 180 days.
Through some research, and my own personal experience, I've found that this is false.
The trick involves bilateral visa agreements between the USA and certain EU member countries, that were signed before entry into Schengen, and thus take precedence.
The most famous one is the Poland loophole (I believe some other countries may have them too)
Here are some external references:
http://expatcenter.blogspot.com/2013/05/...-visa.html
http://travel.stackexchange.com/question...day-period
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/th...&start=210
In summary, the diplomatic note of April 4th 1991 (attached), overrides Schengen rules. US Citizens can stay in Poland indefinitely, as long as they leave once every 90 days. Every time you re-enter Poland, the 90 days start again. More importantly, you don't even need to exit the Schengen area. You simply need to go to a neighboring country, like Germany or the Czech Republic, and have some sort of proof that you did.
So why does this mean you can live anywhere in Europe then? Because Schengen rules eliminate internal border control checks. Whenever you fly or take a train to a neighboring country, there are no passport checks. So effectively, once you enter Schengen (via Poland), you can stay in any country you like. When you exit Schengen, make sure to do so via Poland as well.
I recently stayed for 110 consecutive days in Poland (with one short trip to Germany in the middle). When I exited Schengen via Warsaw, I simply showed my German hotel receipt to the airport border control, and everything was fine.
I hope this helps those considering longer-term stays in Europe.
polandvisa.pdf (Size: 108.8 KB / Downloads: 1173299)
I had posted on this earlier, and Roosh had also mentioned it briefly in one of his e-books.
Most people believe that US Citizens can only stay in Europe (the EU Schengen area) for 90 out of every 180 days.
Through some research, and my own personal experience, I've found that this is false.
The trick involves bilateral visa agreements between the USA and certain EU member countries, that were signed before entry into Schengen, and thus take precedence.
The most famous one is the Poland loophole (I believe some other countries may have them too)
Here are some external references:
http://expatcenter.blogspot.com/2013/05/...-visa.html
http://travel.stackexchange.com/question...day-period
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/th...&start=210
In summary, the diplomatic note of April 4th 1991 (attached), overrides Schengen rules. US Citizens can stay in Poland indefinitely, as long as they leave once every 90 days. Every time you re-enter Poland, the 90 days start again. More importantly, you don't even need to exit the Schengen area. You simply need to go to a neighboring country, like Germany or the Czech Republic, and have some sort of proof that you did.
So why does this mean you can live anywhere in Europe then? Because Schengen rules eliminate internal border control checks. Whenever you fly or take a train to a neighboring country, there are no passport checks. So effectively, once you enter Schengen (via Poland), you can stay in any country you like. When you exit Schengen, make sure to do so via Poland as well.
I recently stayed for 110 consecutive days in Poland (with one short trip to Germany in the middle). When I exited Schengen via Warsaw, I simply showed my German hotel receipt to the airport border control, and everything was fine.
I hope this helps those considering longer-term stays in Europe.
polandvisa.pdf (Size: 108.8 KB / Downloads: 1173299)
But perhaps the problem arrises when you leave the schengen zone as the other officials see you overstayed schengen zone time?
Roosh · 2013-12-23 08:19:00 · #3
Is Poland the only country in Schengen that has this?
maestrobaires · 2013-12-23 08:33:00 · #4
germany as well
Inspired · 2013-12-23 08:37:00 · #5
No. Germany is strict as fuck. 90 days maximum and then you need to leave for 6 months. Period.
But thanks to the OP. This is great info.
But thanks to the OP. This is great info.
maestrobaires · 2013-12-23 08:46:00 · #6
your port of entry has to be in germany
fucksong · 2013-12-23 08:47:00 · #7
Thanks for info!
Inspired · 2013-12-23 08:49:00 · #8
Inspired · 2013-12-23 08:55:00 · #9
I'll add that in Germany, they scan your passport and when you sort of disappear, by going to Poland for example, and then come back to Germany, I can't imagine that they wouldn't be up your ass about it.
I've actually seen people at the german airport get sent home directly after flying there because of some stupid inconsistency that probably wasn't the people's mistake at all. No shit.
For me, I wouldn't go to Germany and then go to Poland and come back to Germany, unless I came over the border and stayed with someone and laid low for the time period until I could go back to Poland.
I must say, I've never been to Poland, but as an American who has flown back and forth to Germany about a million times, no way would I try this.
I've actually seen people at the german airport get sent home directly after flying there because of some stupid inconsistency that probably wasn't the people's mistake at all. No shit.
For me, I wouldn't go to Germany and then go to Poland and come back to Germany, unless I came over the border and stayed with someone and laid low for the time period until I could go back to Poland.
I must say, I've never been to Poland, but as an American who has flown back and forth to Germany about a million times, no way would I try this.
Inspired · 2013-12-23 08:56:00 · #10
renotime · 2013-12-23 09:01:00 · #11
If you have a parent that was born in Europe, I believe you are eligible for an EU passport.
My old man was born in England and I plan on getting one sometime next year.
My old man was born in England and I plan on getting one sometime next year.
Inspired · 2013-12-23 09:03:00 · #12
Every country has different rules etc.
I'm trying to get an Irish passport. I have Irish grandparents so that qualifies me.
but germany for example doesn't allow dual citizenship.
I'm trying to get an Irish passport. I have Irish grandparents so that qualifies me.
but germany for example doesn't allow dual citizenship.
maestrobaires · 2013-12-23 09:04:00 · #13
all those agreements (like poland and germany) are valid only if your schengen area port of entry is that country. so, you can't enter schengen area in france and then go to poland expecting you will be given such treatment
Long ass blog, and I quit at France, but some of the information seems legit. Better double check though.
http://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blogs/...n-90-days/
All I know is Americans get a 1 year visa from Georgia, and in general going through a local lawyer can make things happen. Generally. Sometimes you gotta pay to play.
http://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blogs/...n-90-days/
All I know is Americans get a 1 year visa from Georgia, and in general going through a local lawyer can make things happen. Generally. Sometimes you gotta pay to play.
Quote:Be Self Employed – Germany offers a “self-employment” visa. If you are a freelancer and have some form of income, this is the visa to get. It’s perfect and will give you one to two years in the EU. This isn’t a business visa where you move your company to Germany but a visa for contract workers, artists, web folks, and other freelance type jobs. You need to apply for this visa when in Germany.
You can apply for this visa while you are in Germany and the process usually takes about a week. You simply need the following documents to your visa appointment:
paninaro · 2013-12-23 10:41:00 · #15
Why didn't the EU ask Poland to drop all existing bilaterals when they joined Schengen? I thought that would be sort of a requierement to join Schengen -- that you cede control of such decisions to the Schengen rules.
That's why I'd be slightly skeptical about this supposed loophole. It seems strange the EU would make exceptions for such cases. Usually joining the EU or some program within it means your country has to now follow the rules of that agreement, so that it's even and fair across all countries it applies to.
That's why I'd be slightly skeptical about this supposed loophole. It seems strange the EU would make exceptions for such cases. Usually joining the EU or some program within it means your country has to now follow the rules of that agreement, so that it's even and fair across all countries it applies to.
Eddie Morra · 2013-12-23 10:59:00 · #16
There is a similar agreement between Portugal and Brazil I believe, don't know the details,but there is some sort of freedom of movement. Possibly even Spain and some of their former colonies too, but I'm not sure about this.
Sometimes there are also internal border checks between Schengen countries, especially those that border Germany, on the roads and/or on trains entering their territory. I've seen German Police/Border Patrol on trains from Strasbourg, France to Germany, I've even seen them waiting for the train in uniform on the platform in Strasbourg. You'll see them on trains from the Netherlands checking passports too, mainly looking for drugs, but they do ask most passengers for their passports while walking down the aisles. Each country in Schengen has a right to protect it's own borders at anytime there is cause. I think Denmark also had some roadblocks at their borders a year or two ago in protest to the way some of the southern Schengen countries were enforcing (or lack of) their external borders
Sometimes there are also internal border checks between Schengen countries, especially those that border Germany, on the roads and/or on trains entering their territory. I've seen German Police/Border Patrol on trains from Strasbourg, France to Germany, I've even seen them waiting for the train in uniform on the platform in Strasbourg. You'll see them on trains from the Netherlands checking passports too, mainly looking for drugs, but they do ask most passengers for their passports while walking down the aisles. Each country in Schengen has a right to protect it's own borders at anytime there is cause. I think Denmark also had some roadblocks at their borders a year or two ago in protest to the way some of the southern Schengen countries were enforcing (or lack of) their external borders
thirty-six · 2013-12-23 14:53:00 · #19
I guess the question then becomes: What would you do in Europe as a US citizen, even if you could live there forever, legally, without a visa? That's a mighty big question mark for guys who are not successful location-independent IT professionals, stock market traders, bloggers, internet marketers or whatever else. Does this loophole give you the right to work, buy property, etc?
That may not be the point of the thread, but that's where my mind instinctively goes.
That may not be the point of the thread, but that's where my mind instinctively goes.
worldwidetraveler · 2013-12-23 14:54:00 · #20
Ukraine it is 90 days within 180 days. I don't know if they are enforcing but it isn't something I would bet on when dealing with that country.
You can live in Russia permanent w/out a visa if you go over with a thumb drive full of state secrets.
worldwidetraveler · 2013-12-23 15:10:00 · #22
jimukr104 · 2013-12-23 15:13:00 · #23
P.S ua WILL never BE IN eu LOL
Thats NOT true with Ukraine.... at some of the borders the customs guys didn't understand the rules but legally its 90 out of 180 days. Ukraine has become difficult. It used to be you could buy a 3 yr business visa(even a 5 yr one I HAD). Now you gotta go to OVIR for extension.
Thats NOT true with Ukraine.... at some of the borders the customs guys didn't understand the rules but legally its 90 out of 180 days. Ukraine has become difficult. It used to be you could buy a 3 yr business visa(even a 5 yr one I HAD). Now you gotta go to OVIR for extension.
jimukr104 · 2013-12-23 15:15:00 · #24
(12-23-2013 03:10 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:i am thinking of becoming Ukrainian. Then i can travel to Belarus, Russia, Ubekistan visa free when i want lol(12-23-2013 02:57 PM)Aliblahba Wrote: You can live in Russia permanent w/out a visa if you go over with a thumb drive full of state secrets.
Possibly even Brazil. I think I would stick with the 3 year visa for Russia. Christmas with mom wouldn't be the same with treason charges.
jimukr104 · 2013-12-23 15:19:00 · #25
(12-23-2013 09:21 AM)Aliblahba Wrote: Long ass blog, and I quit at France, but some of the information seems legit. Better double check though.Actually Georgia is VISA free 360 days.......you gotta leave 1 day lol
http://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blogs/...n-90-days/
All I know is Americans get a 1 year visa from Georgia, and in general going through a local lawyer can make things happen. Generally. Sometimes you gotta pay to play.
Quote:Be Self Employed – Germany offers a “self-employment” visa. If you are a freelancer and have some form of income, this is the visa to get. It’s perfect and will give you one to two years in the EU. This isn’t a business visa where you move your company to Germany but a visa for contract workers, artists, web folks, and other freelance type jobs. You need to apply for this visa when in Germany.
You can apply for this visa while you are in Germany and the process usually takes about a week. You simply need the following documents to your visa appointment:
i don't know how easy Poland is..but i remember it was easy for Americans to get teaching jobs there. They love Americans so much that they actually separate American English as different than British English and justify hiring American teachers.TBH they also hire migrant Ukrainian farmers so it seems Poland has other laws that supersede the EU.
Eddie Morra · 2013-12-23 15:25:00 · #26
I'm just saying what I've seen first hand and I travel frequently between Frankfurt and Strasbourg by train. I've even been in a van with French plates being pulled over by German border officers for spot checks, it happens. I believe that you do need your passport when you cross international borders, regardless if they are both in Schengen or not.
The Schengen basically took down border posts between countries and allowed people freedom of movement without having to stop at border checkpoints everytime they crossed a border. However, that did not eliminate they need for citizens to carry their passports when crossing a border from one EU country to another, even for EU citizens(their passport is proof of their EU citizenship anyway).
Like I said, countries can enforce their own border controls when they feel a need to and it happens from time to time. Even if you have a residency permit, which is fine if you are living inside the country where you work, but when crossing international borders even daily for work, even for EU citizens, you still need to carry a passport.
The Schengen basically took down border posts between countries and allowed people freedom of movement without having to stop at border checkpoints everytime they crossed a border. However, that did not eliminate they need for citizens to carry their passports when crossing a border from one EU country to another, even for EU citizens(their passport is proof of their EU citizenship anyway).
Like I said, countries can enforce their own border controls when they feel a need to and it happens from time to time. Even if you have a residency permit, which is fine if you are living inside the country where you work, but when crossing international borders even daily for work, even for EU citizens, you still need to carry a passport.
jimukr104 · 2013-12-23 15:53:00 · #28
Ukraine it is 90 days within 180 days. I don't know if they are enforcing but it isn't something I would bet on when dealing with that country.
[/quote]
I went to the immigration office with my friend when I was in Ukraine in July. Yes, it has become much more difficult to stay past three months. Nevertheless, if you "take a trip" every 90 days to Russia or Poland, you can return to Ukraine without a problem. Roosh mentions a Poland border run in his books. Take a bus one day, return the next.
[/quote]
those folks getting lucky then since technically one is surpose to be out 90 days.Like I said one day customs will wise up and they don't have to let folks in.Some have been caught already.In ukraine even officials are clueless so they can say one thing that is illegal but in the end outcome is different.
[/quote]
I went to the immigration office with my friend when I was in Ukraine in July. Yes, it has become much more difficult to stay past three months. Nevertheless, if you "take a trip" every 90 days to Russia or Poland, you can return to Ukraine without a problem. Roosh mentions a Poland border run in his books. Take a bus one day, return the next.
[/quote]
those folks getting lucky then since technically one is surpose to be out 90 days.Like I said one day customs will wise up and they don't have to let folks in.Some have been caught already.In ukraine even officials are clueless so they can say one thing that is illegal but in the end outcome is different.