The Bitcoin thread
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samsamsam · 2013-12-13 13:39:00 · #653
JJG, to me it seems you are one of the most read/most researched people on this board when it comes to bitcoins. There are others obviously, like el mech and others. I admire the degree of depth you go to find information and quiz people about claims. Any chance you would consolidate your tons of knowledge into a thought piece about your outlook on bitcoins? I promise to stop asking about your car and where you live 
JayJuanGee · 2013-12-13 13:55:00 · #654
(12-13-2013 01:39 PM)samsamsam Wrote: JJG, to me it seems you are one of the most read/most researched people on this board when it comes to bitcoins. There are others obviously, like el mech and others. I admire the degree of depth you go to find information and quiz people about claims. Any chance you would consolidate your tons of knowledge into a thought piece about your outlook on bitcoins? I promise to stop asking about your car and where you live
Sam (x3) You are too funny.
I am only recently (in about the past month) studying this BTC matter in a fairly highly-focused way, and I have been using this thread as a springboard to disclose my developing thoughts on BTC. Accordingly, the information provided in the thread has been very useful to such.
In line with what you are suggesting, in the last couple of days, I have been working on understanding my own stake in BTC and my short-term and possibly long-term investment plan, and I was preparing to disclose an outline of that information for guys here to be able to use, if they want - and of course, to provide feedback in the event that they tend to believe that my plan is looney or whatever.
Of course, none of us really know where BTC is going, exactly, and we are trying to grasp its many technicalities, complications and seemingly extra price gouging that we are receiving when we convert BTC to fiat - or vice versa. Also, we cannot be sure whether the BTC BAN hammer is going to come down.
On the other topic, it's all good fun.. to share car pictures.. And, in that regard, I may have to change my car b/c in recent days, I have noticed a few possible BTC orbiters staking out potential value therein.
JayJuanGee · 2013-12-13 14:12:00 · #655
Here it is. I drafted this up in the last 10 minutes. Just kidding. 
I have been reviewing my current Bitcoin (BTC) investment strategy, and I decided to tweak such investment plan, and to share my current thoughts.
Guys could apply a scalable variation my investment plan to fit his own budgetary considerations, especially if he is long-term bullish on BTC. Currently, I am predicting BTC prices to be more than $1,350 by the end of 2015, which would represent at least a 6% return per annum in respect to its $1,200 peak). If it goes up less than that, then I may be o.k. too, and that depends upon the value of my average investment at the time of cashing out (if i were to cash out), as you will see below, I am buying on a regular basis, and therefore, so far my average investment is lower than $1200, even though my first 1.2BTC was purchased at $1200 per BTC. Currently my average is at $924 per BTC. And, note the market price of BTC in the last 24 hours as I write this has fluctuated between $850 and $920 per BTC.
Also, feel free to critique, comment or ask questions about my investment plan/scenario.
Here goes:
I am going to continue to invest in BTC in a form of dollar cost averaging and slightly front load the investment .. in order to continue to get some stake in the game (within my budget).
To date my BTC Investment
I only started my BTC investment in late November 2013 (which may have been bad timing), and accordingly, up until now I have invested about $5,567 over that 15 day period, which resulted in 6.0248 BTC… (about 1BTC of my total BTC got transferred into alternative crypto currencies). In essence, my investment in BTC /alt currencies to date, is about an average of $371 per day. And an average of about $924 per BTC.
My short term front loading of the investment until the end of December and possibly into the beginning of January
I will continue to invest about $200 per day, unless price drops dramatically which will cause me to invest up to $1,000 per day… in this regard, my increases in investing will will occur as prices are dropping.. if prices are going up, then I will just stick with my minimum of $200 per day.
Medium term investing from January 2014 through June 2014
I will continue with a similar pattern as December 2013 with a lower investment amount of about $100 per day, unless price drops dramatically which will cause me to invest up to $500 per day (max of $1500 per week) … in this regard, my increases in investing will will occur as prices are dropping.. if prices are going up, then I will just stick with my minimum $100 per day (which would be $3k to $5k per month)
Longer term investing from July 2014 to the end:
I figure that by the time July comes, I will have invested about $30K into BTC. I will likely be less inclined to watch BTC on a daily basis, yet I will continue to invest about $700 on a weekly basis, unless price drops dramatically which will cause me to invest up to $1,500 per week… in this regard, my increases in investing will will occur as prices are dropping.. if prices are going up, then I will just stick with my minimum $700 per week (which would be $3k to $5k per month)
Four overall points:
First point: In practice, so far, monitoring and deciding when to buy BTC has been difficult, given the volatility. It has been difficult to determine whether the BTC market is moving down or up – the green / red light problem. Accordingly, my parameters for calculating daily/weekly BTC investment limits will be based on the following investment triggers:
1) invest if the BTC price is down more than 10% in the day;
2) invest if # 1 does NOT apply; however, the BTC price is down more than 5% in a three-day period;
3) invest if # 1 or 2 does NOT apply; however, if the BTC price is down more than 2% in a week or
4) invest if # 1, 2 or 3 does NOT apply; however, if the BTC price is down more than 1% in a month.
Of course, the more of these investment triggers that seem to fit the situation, will cause me to increase the additional amount that I invest. I may need to tweak my application of these investment triggers, depending how they play out and how frequently I am employing them.
Second Point: Initially, I am front loading my investment on a daily basis because this particular market has been very volatile and I have been trying to get the best price for the buck, given the circumstances and hoping for a little luck. As time passes, and I will have more stake in the BTC game, and therefore, there will likely be less need for daily monitoring and certainly, less need for front loading.
Third Point: I may also have to change my investment strategy based on new information in the event that my presumptions about long-term bullish changes. The three likely triggers for changing me from bullish to bearish on BTC would be: 1) successful govt intervention in regulating BTC, 2) some kind of major BTC sabatoge virus or corruption issue that will NOT resolve itself or 3) some other crypto currency or alternative seems to be beating out or replacing BTC and seems to be a better investment (accordingly to transfer funds into that other investment)
Fourth Point: The more I acquire BTC, the more I will likely find opportunities to spend BTC or to receive BTC through other means. Overall, I consider BTC as a future potential for storing and/preserving wealth.… and diversifying wealth holdings away from the dollar. In the event that I find that I am spending BTC on a regular basis, then I plan to purchase additional BTC to make up for the BTC that I am spending in order to maintain an investment pool (stake in the BTC game).
I have been reviewing my current Bitcoin (BTC) investment strategy, and I decided to tweak such investment plan, and to share my current thoughts.
Guys could apply a scalable variation my investment plan to fit his own budgetary considerations, especially if he is long-term bullish on BTC. Currently, I am predicting BTC prices to be more than $1,350 by the end of 2015, which would represent at least a 6% return per annum in respect to its $1,200 peak). If it goes up less than that, then I may be o.k. too, and that depends upon the value of my average investment at the time of cashing out (if i were to cash out), as you will see below, I am buying on a regular basis, and therefore, so far my average investment is lower than $1200, even though my first 1.2BTC was purchased at $1200 per BTC. Currently my average is at $924 per BTC. And, note the market price of BTC in the last 24 hours as I write this has fluctuated between $850 and $920 per BTC.
Also, feel free to critique, comment or ask questions about my investment plan/scenario.
Here goes:
I am going to continue to invest in BTC in a form of dollar cost averaging and slightly front load the investment .. in order to continue to get some stake in the game (within my budget).
To date my BTC Investment
I only started my BTC investment in late November 2013 (which may have been bad timing), and accordingly, up until now I have invested about $5,567 over that 15 day period, which resulted in 6.0248 BTC… (about 1BTC of my total BTC got transferred into alternative crypto currencies). In essence, my investment in BTC /alt currencies to date, is about an average of $371 per day. And an average of about $924 per BTC.
My short term front loading of the investment until the end of December and possibly into the beginning of January
I will continue to invest about $200 per day, unless price drops dramatically which will cause me to invest up to $1,000 per day… in this regard, my increases in investing will will occur as prices are dropping.. if prices are going up, then I will just stick with my minimum of $200 per day.
Medium term investing from January 2014 through June 2014
I will continue with a similar pattern as December 2013 with a lower investment amount of about $100 per day, unless price drops dramatically which will cause me to invest up to $500 per day (max of $1500 per week) … in this regard, my increases in investing will will occur as prices are dropping.. if prices are going up, then I will just stick with my minimum $100 per day (which would be $3k to $5k per month)
Longer term investing from July 2014 to the end:
I figure that by the time July comes, I will have invested about $30K into BTC. I will likely be less inclined to watch BTC on a daily basis, yet I will continue to invest about $700 on a weekly basis, unless price drops dramatically which will cause me to invest up to $1,500 per week… in this regard, my increases in investing will will occur as prices are dropping.. if prices are going up, then I will just stick with my minimum $700 per week (which would be $3k to $5k per month)
Four overall points:
First point: In practice, so far, monitoring and deciding when to buy BTC has been difficult, given the volatility. It has been difficult to determine whether the BTC market is moving down or up – the green / red light problem. Accordingly, my parameters for calculating daily/weekly BTC investment limits will be based on the following investment triggers:
1) invest if the BTC price is down more than 10% in the day;
2) invest if # 1 does NOT apply; however, the BTC price is down more than 5% in a three-day period;
3) invest if # 1 or 2 does NOT apply; however, if the BTC price is down more than 2% in a week or
4) invest if # 1, 2 or 3 does NOT apply; however, if the BTC price is down more than 1% in a month.
Of course, the more of these investment triggers that seem to fit the situation, will cause me to increase the additional amount that I invest. I may need to tweak my application of these investment triggers, depending how they play out and how frequently I am employing them.
Second Point: Initially, I am front loading my investment on a daily basis because this particular market has been very volatile and I have been trying to get the best price for the buck, given the circumstances and hoping for a little luck. As time passes, and I will have more stake in the BTC game, and therefore, there will likely be less need for daily monitoring and certainly, less need for front loading.
Third Point: I may also have to change my investment strategy based on new information in the event that my presumptions about long-term bullish changes. The three likely triggers for changing me from bullish to bearish on BTC would be: 1) successful govt intervention in regulating BTC, 2) some kind of major BTC sabatoge virus or corruption issue that will NOT resolve itself or 3) some other crypto currency or alternative seems to be beating out or replacing BTC and seems to be a better investment (accordingly to transfer funds into that other investment)
Fourth Point: The more I acquire BTC, the more I will likely find opportunities to spend BTC or to receive BTC through other means. Overall, I consider BTC as a future potential for storing and/preserving wealth.… and diversifying wealth holdings away from the dollar. In the event that I find that I am spending BTC on a regular basis, then I plan to purchase additional BTC to make up for the BTC that I am spending in order to maintain an investment pool (stake in the BTC game).
el mechanico · 2013-12-13 14:18:00 · #656
^ Why are you investing per day? You have some coins so why don't you chill and wait for crashes even if it takes a couple weeks?
Is there a way to put USD into BTC-E without converting to BTC first? If so I would do that, wait and pull the trigger.
Is there a way to put USD into BTC-E without converting to BTC first? If so I would do that, wait and pull the trigger.
samsamsam · 2013-12-13 14:58:00 · #657
JJG thanks for the post! May I ask what drives your belief that it will be at 1,350 at the end of 2015? Thanks!
pants · 2013-12-13 16:29:00 · #658
Good stuff JJG! I like your plan especially as it works stabilizing on the swings, with steady growth, something that would really be health for the ecosystem of Bitcoin. Hope many will follow this strategy.
My thoughts of why I stay in it from a statistical perspective are as following. Don´t pay to much attention to the numbers as they are for the most part pulled out of my ass. (Except for tax heaven and 5% of gold)
What I want to communicate is, it´s a risky bet with the possibility of a really good pay off. And taking bets like these one will pay off in the long run, even if this one might drop dead. These are the opportunities to look ofter.
40% Chance value falls to zero. A better crypto currency comes a long, technical weakness in the protocol, politics might trigger such a scenario.
30% Chance value stays around 1000
20% chance it grows to 5000 (Media hype along with some large companies starting accepting bitcoin)
4% Chance for 20 000
3% Chance of 40 000 (Bitcoin takes 5% of golds value)
2% Chance 100 000 (Gold, western union, Widely used as a store of value)
1% (Tax heaven for bank accounts 30Trillion$ market) would result in 1.428.571,43USD/BTC
This is the game you want to be playing. If you could have a roulette table with these odds, I would go there playing every night.
On average one would be to earn 40%*0+30%*1000+20%*5000*4%*20000+3%*40000+2%*100000+1%1.400.500 = 19305USD/BTC. Again, don´t pay to much attention to the numbers, I just want to communicate even though the chance of total losses are huge, the high end makes up for it.
Just want to add I have to financial background or want to take credit for any losses or winnings on bitcoin. Don´t bet more than you can afford to lose.
My thoughts of why I stay in it from a statistical perspective are as following. Don´t pay to much attention to the numbers as they are for the most part pulled out of my ass. (Except for tax heaven and 5% of gold)
What I want to communicate is, it´s a risky bet with the possibility of a really good pay off. And taking bets like these one will pay off in the long run, even if this one might drop dead. These are the opportunities to look ofter.
40% Chance value falls to zero. A better crypto currency comes a long, technical weakness in the protocol, politics might trigger such a scenario.
30% Chance value stays around 1000
20% chance it grows to 5000 (Media hype along with some large companies starting accepting bitcoin)
4% Chance for 20 000
3% Chance of 40 000 (Bitcoin takes 5% of golds value)
2% Chance 100 000 (Gold, western union, Widely used as a store of value)
1% (Tax heaven for bank accounts 30Trillion$ market) would result in 1.428.571,43USD/BTC
This is the game you want to be playing. If you could have a roulette table with these odds, I would go there playing every night.
On average one would be to earn 40%*0+30%*1000+20%*5000*4%*20000+3%*40000+2%*100000+1%1.400.500 = 19305USD/BTC. Again, don´t pay to much attention to the numbers, I just want to communicate even though the chance of total losses are huge, the high end makes up for it.
Just want to add I have to financial background or want to take credit for any losses or winnings on bitcoin. Don´t bet more than you can afford to lose.
el mechanico · 2013-12-13 16:45:00 · #659
^Nice, I kinda agree with Pants. I could cash out right now but wouldn't be upset if it crashed or went to 10k so I don't care because I'm entertained.
I do feel a big sell from me coming tonight though.
I do feel a big sell from me coming tonight though.
I've tried to read this thread several times.
Every time I do I feel just a little bit more stupid.
I understand about 10% of what you're on about, the rest is over my head.
Every time I do I feel just a little bit more stupid.
I understand about 10% of what you're on about, the rest is over my head.
Tex Pro · 2013-12-13 17:07:00 · #661
BTC is probably not going to trade above $1,000/BTC for the rest of December. Anytime it even approaches $1,000/BTC there is significant profit taking.
The only way BTC stays above $1,000/BTC for a long period of time is if it begins being traded by major investment banks in the USA or Switzerland or some other financial hub.
Keep your ears to the ground. The price could escalate quickly if the major investment banks ever get involved.
The only way BTC stays above $1,000/BTC for a long period of time is if it begins being traded by major investment banks in the USA or Switzerland or some other financial hub.
Keep your ears to the ground. The price could escalate quickly if the major investment banks ever get involved.
samsamsam · 2013-12-13 17:40:00 · #662
(12-13-2013 04:45 PM)el mechanico Wrote: ^Nice, I kinda agree with Pants. I could cash out right now but wouldn't be upset if it crashed or went to 10k so I don't care because I'm entertained.
I do feel a big sell from me coming tonight though.
Muwahahaha, I secretly have amassed 25 Million Bitcoins and will dump them tonight. There will be blood on the street. That and only 21M will ever be made but I don't care about facts!
I think Bitcoins are a bubble.
I am no expert - but just want to say that.
Anyone else think so as well?
I hope you guys make alot of money - so I hope I am wrong. But my gut is telling me it is a bubble. It will just be one of those fads that we look back on and laugh about in the future. Once it starts crashing - everyone will head for the exit at the same time. Unlike with Gold where there is enough history surrounding its status, that people feel comfortable holding it even during plunges in its price.
I am no expert. So don't expect me to back up any of this with some clever argument. Except to say that I am a member of 'the herd' - and as such my gut feelings are probably similar to alot of others as well. And once the herd starts moving in the same direction - it don't matter how smart you are. You better get out of the way.
I am no expert - but just want to say that.
Anyone else think so as well?
I hope you guys make alot of money - so I hope I am wrong. But my gut is telling me it is a bubble. It will just be one of those fads that we look back on and laugh about in the future. Once it starts crashing - everyone will head for the exit at the same time. Unlike with Gold where there is enough history surrounding its status, that people feel comfortable holding it even during plunges in its price.
I am no expert. So don't expect me to back up any of this with some clever argument. Except to say that I am a member of 'the herd' - and as such my gut feelings are probably similar to alot of others as well. And once the herd starts moving in the same direction - it don't matter how smart you are. You better get out of the way.
Tex Pro · 2013-12-13 18:56:00 · #664
(12-13-2013 06:48 PM)cardguy Wrote: I think Bitcoins are a bubble.
I am no expert - but just want to say that.
Anyone else think so as well?
I hope you guys make alot of money - so I hope I am wrong. But my gut is telling me it is a bubble. It will just be one of those fads that we look back on and laugh about in the future. Once it starts crashing - everyone will head for the exit at the same time. Unlike with Gold where there is enough history surrounding its status, that people feel comfortable holding it even during plunges in its price.
I am no expert. So don't expect me to back up any of this with some clever argument. Except to say that I am a member of 'the herd' - and as such my gut feelings are probably similar to alot of others as well. And once the herd starts moving in the same direction - it don't matter how smart you are. You better get out of the way.
Bitcoin may or may not be a bubble. Only time will tell.
However, crypto-currencies (of which bitcoin is but just one example) are here to stay. They simply have too many benefits to go away into the Sun. They are akin to the invention of the internet. The idea will not go away regardless of what happens to bitcoin's price.
el mechanico · 2013-12-13 19:05:00 · #665
I'll pm anyone my sell point tonight on btc-e
Yeah - I think crypto-currencies are her to stay as well.
Anyone see that JP Morgan has patented their own crypto-currency?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25326289
Makes you wonder. The early movers in technology are rarely the ones that stay around and become a big success. Compare IBM to Microsoft, Netscape to Internet Explorer, AOL to Google, MySpace to Facebook.
So - I wonder if the JP Morgan currency (or a different one?) will come along and beat out Bitcoins?
Anyone see that JP Morgan has patented their own crypto-currency?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25326289
Makes you wonder. The early movers in technology are rarely the ones that stay around and become a big success. Compare IBM to Microsoft, Netscape to Internet Explorer, AOL to Google, MySpace to Facebook.
So - I wonder if the JP Morgan currency (or a different one?) will come along and beat out Bitcoins?
Neo · 2013-12-13 20:39:00 · #667
This looks like a positive sign:
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/230346
I like the idea of bitcoin, it could be revolutionary if it becomes widely accepted. Worst case I lose some cash if it comes crashing down. Thanks to game, not getting married, and refusing to be a mindless consumer, I can take risks like this.
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/230346
I like the idea of bitcoin, it could be revolutionary if it becomes widely accepted. Worst case I lose some cash if it comes crashing down. Thanks to game, not getting married, and refusing to be a mindless consumer, I can take risks like this.
(12-13-2013 06:48 PM)cardguy Wrote: I think Bitcoins are a bubble.
Anyone else think so as well?
as such my gut feelings are probably similar to alot of others as well. And once the herd starts moving in the same direction - it don't matter how smart you are. You better get out of the way.
About everyone else thinks as well, except for the dreamers
who bought a lot of Bitcoins and they are totally blinded by the
adrenaline ride, the greed is high and they fail to
see the hundreds of downsides of a virtual fiat currency
backed by nothing, which is highly unsafe and almost every economist
out there labeled it as unsafe and very risky:
This is how the bubble graphic looks like:
![[Image: _71650444_bitcoin_daily_price_2013_464gr.gif]](http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71650000/gif/_71650444_bitcoin_daily_price_2013_464gr.gif)
more Bitcoin warnings news, in all the big media outlets:
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/201...-bitcoins/
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/20...ed-says-eu
http://business.time.com/2013/12/13/euro...n-dangers/
This is heavily being promoted by early Angel Investors who bought the bitcoin when it was about 5 or 6 cents. These early investors lobbied,bribed and influenced the media and internet forums to make this bitcoin popular and grow. This type of Ponzi is seeing its rise because of these early angel investors, the result of cartels laundering their proceeds from drugs,extortion and illegal gambling and people who are just basic suckers and gullible. Look at the Chinese government, they said it is not a currency and told their banks not to deal in bitcoins.
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/201...-bitcoins/
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/20...ed-says-eu
http://business.time.com/2013/12/13/euro...n-dangers/
This is heavily being promoted by early Angel Investors who bought the bitcoin when it was about 5 or 6 cents. These early investors lobbied,bribed and influenced the media and internet forums to make this bitcoin popular and grow. This type of Ponzi is seeing its rise because of these early angel investors, the result of cartels laundering their proceeds from drugs,extortion and illegal gambling and people who are just basic suckers and gullible. Look at the Chinese government, they said it is not a currency and told their banks not to deal in bitcoins.
Tex Pro · 2013-12-13 21:28:00 · #670
@fortyfor
Speaking of bubbles...If you want to see a bubble popping as we speak, just look at the Argentinian Peso vs the US Dollar:
![[Image: chart?client=firefox-a&hs=vB1&am...amp;chsc=1]](https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?client=firefox-a&hs=vB1&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&biw=1600&bih=796&q=CURRENCY:ARSUSD&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=229x94&chsc=1)
Speaking of bubbles...If you want to see a bubble popping as we speak, just look at the Argentinian Peso vs the US Dollar:
Paradoxically, the fact there is still such a great difference of opinion about Bitcoin is actually good news - that means there is still lots of potential for growth! The nobs haven't cottoned on yet! It's only when every man and his dog wants to get in that it would be time to sell.
Weighing up all the arguments, count me in. Best summary I saw was an article on CNN and a comment in the comment-section:
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/10/busine...ce-paypal/
"People make a mistake when attempting to comment on or understand the value of Bitcoin. The value is actually in the network, for which you need bitcoins to participate. As a result, the price of Bitcoin, driven by supply and demand, is very much like the share price of a technology start-up company. Except there is no company. So owning bitcoins is like having shares in the Bitcoin network. That's where the value is, in the revolutionary nature and utility of the payment and record-keeping system - the distributed global ledger - and the fact that no company, no bank, and certainly no government, is involved. It's a world-first and it's deeply disruptive of existing payment technologies."
I'd be willing to take a punt on Bitcoins becoming a spectacular success - IF (and that's a big IF of course) they do achieve wild success, you could see another 100x price increase over the next few years, topping out at US $100 000 per bit coin. Mind you, with all the current hype it's likely over-valued at the moment, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the price fall back somewhat over the next few months, possibly even crashing to below $US 100 again. But over the long-term I guess it's going only one way...up.
Weighing up all the arguments, count me in. Best summary I saw was an article on CNN and a comment in the comment-section:
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/10/busine...ce-paypal/
"People make a mistake when attempting to comment on or understand the value of Bitcoin. The value is actually in the network, for which you need bitcoins to participate. As a result, the price of Bitcoin, driven by supply and demand, is very much like the share price of a technology start-up company. Except there is no company. So owning bitcoins is like having shares in the Bitcoin network. That's where the value is, in the revolutionary nature and utility of the payment and record-keeping system - the distributed global ledger - and the fact that no company, no bank, and certainly no government, is involved. It's a world-first and it's deeply disruptive of existing payment technologies."
I'd be willing to take a punt on Bitcoins becoming a spectacular success - IF (and that's a big IF of course) they do achieve wild success, you could see another 100x price increase over the next few years, topping out at US $100 000 per bit coin. Mind you, with all the current hype it's likely over-valued at the moment, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the price fall back somewhat over the next few months, possibly even crashing to below $US 100 again. But over the long-term I guess it's going only one way...up.
Maciano · 2013-12-14 07:28:00 · #672
"People make a mistake when attempting to comment on or understand the value of Bitcoin. The value is actually in the network, for which you need bitcoins to participate. As a result, the price of Bitcoin, driven by supply and demand, is very much like the share price of a technology start-up company. Except there is no company. So owning bitcoins is like having shares in the Bitcoin network. That's where the value is, in the revolutionary nature and utility of the payment and record-keeping system - the distributed global ledger - and the fact that no company, no bank, and certainly no government, is involved. It's a world-first and it's deeply disruptive of existing payment technologies."
^ This
It seems that people just can't wrap their heads around bitcoin. The only thing they see is the price/dollar exchange rate. It's the network that's got the intrinsic value.
I'd lie if I'd say that I'm not interested in the rise of the price, but I know that it's not the exchange rate what gives bitcoins its value: it's the network. If I'd see decreasing users, transactions, merchants, I'd sell my BTC. But I see exponential adoption in users, transactions & merchants, so I know the network grows in value.
^ This
It seems that people just can't wrap their heads around bitcoin. The only thing they see is the price/dollar exchange rate. It's the network that's got the intrinsic value.
I'd lie if I'd say that I'm not interested in the rise of the price, but I know that it's not the exchange rate what gives bitcoins its value: it's the network. If I'd see decreasing users, transactions, merchants, I'd sell my BTC. But I see exponential adoption in users, transactions & merchants, so I know the network grows in value.
JayJuanGee · 2013-12-14 13:00:00 · #673
I went to carry out my daily Bitcoin purchase on Coinbase, and I got the below message: I find this very frustrating.
Coinbase message at 9am on 12/14/13
From the above message, I have concluded that I need to find another reliable method to get into BTC with my daily basis plan because this is really inconvenient to have to wait for a week and then to be able to cancel up untilthe transaction time. This option to cancel could protect a guy, if the price drops, but it does NOT protect a guy to lock into the current price, and the purchase is really just being put off for 6 calendar days (5 business days?).
Any recommendations for other ways to get into BTC? The only other way that I have tried so far is LocalBitcoins, and that is inconvenient and with about 7-16% higher price. Current price on Coinbase is $860 and Localbitcoins varies between $920 and $997 to do in person or cash deposit at a bank.
I am thinking about just waiting until midnight, and to see if I get the same message on Coinbase, and in the meantime to consider some other possible options to protect for this kind of inability to buy at current market rates eventuality…. If it truly is merely a daily limit that has been reached on Coinbase, and the daily limit clears up at midnight, then maybe this will NOT be a major inconvenience, but it will cause me to buy more when I am able to buy in order to hedge against being unable to lock in the price in the future, as I previously had been able to do.
Coinbase message at 9am on 12/14/13
Quote:“How much bitcoin will I receive?
Due to higher than normal buy volumes, we are unable to provide exact price quotes right now.
Instead of pausing buys entirely, we decided to give people the option to purchase bitcoin at the market price in a few days. Once your USD funds arrive, we will exchange them to bitcoin at the market price at approximately Friday Dec 20, 2013 at 09:00AM PST.
Note that you can cancel your order at any time up until your bitcoin arrive from the transfer history page.
The market price of bitcoin changes frequently. Below are some recent prices to give you an idea. These do not guarantee what the price will be in a few days.”
From the above message, I have concluded that I need to find another reliable method to get into BTC with my daily basis plan because this is really inconvenient to have to wait for a week and then to be able to cancel up untilthe transaction time. This option to cancel could protect a guy, if the price drops, but it does NOT protect a guy to lock into the current price, and the purchase is really just being put off for 6 calendar days (5 business days?).
Any recommendations for other ways to get into BTC? The only other way that I have tried so far is LocalBitcoins, and that is inconvenient and with about 7-16% higher price. Current price on Coinbase is $860 and Localbitcoins varies between $920 and $997 to do in person or cash deposit at a bank.
I am thinking about just waiting until midnight, and to see if I get the same message on Coinbase, and in the meantime to consider some other possible options to protect for this kind of inability to buy at current market rates eventuality…. If it truly is merely a daily limit that has been reached on Coinbase, and the daily limit clears up at midnight, then maybe this will NOT be a major inconvenience, but it will cause me to buy more when I am able to buy in order to hedge against being unable to lock in the price in the future, as I previously had been able to do.
el mechanico · 2013-12-14 14:23:00 · #674
If there's a wait to buy them on coinbase wouldnt that mean the price is going up?
I found out about bitcoins in November last year and thought it was a smart idea. Used it a couple of times on silk road and started following the price. As the price was increasing daily I decided to put 1000$ into it in the end of January, the price was then ~20$ and I got about 52BTC. I followed the bubble closely. But I was stupied and the day I woke up and the price was down like half the price I sold 15. But soon realized by mistake and bought back in. Lost 7BTC on that. But decided to put some more fiat in to cower it up. I did see this last bubble going of and posted about it here, http://www.blockedurl.com/forum/showthre...&pid=18248 on the 4th of November when they were 224$. Okay the bubble started earlier but I know it was going to explode when it passed the last ATH. I was a believer when I first entered and I am even more today. With all this new media attention the number of people who knows about it is huge.
So much is going on now.
The goverments are putting their stand point out, with the US and Germany and maybe soon Swiz giving positive statements. The last China news was not that bad as some try to make it. However Bitcoins is already illegal in Thailand. But really its hard for them to stop it. Unless all country's in the world goes together against it it will live. That the goverments are making statements about it, even bad, is still good for the community. What that US bank is doing is funny. Don't think their currency will fail. Decentralization is the biggest advantage of bitcoins. Buying for a smaller amount everyday as you do JJG is smart since you are spreading the risk. Right now they are shipping bitcoins ATMs around the world. Check https://robocoinkiosk.com/. Bitcoins are here to stay. They can't stop it.
Of the 52BTC I bought I've got at the moment 27.5 in my wallet. 8.5 invested in KnC miner group buy. 7 invested in mining contracts. 2 invested in mastercoins. 1.2 invested in alt-coins. The 5.8 that is left I've cashed out. Might have to sell another 0.5 to make the budget for this month. Not because I'm tight with money but with this much in BTC saving I see no problem spending whatever makes me happy. fortyfor, I'm not going to argue with you, but in my head you are lost in this discussion and don't know what you are talking about.
I believe nothing else that the price will continue to rise. Most people who are in it believe in it and to sell right now would be stupid.
So much is going on now.
The goverments are putting their stand point out, with the US and Germany and maybe soon Swiz giving positive statements. The last China news was not that bad as some try to make it. However Bitcoins is already illegal in Thailand. But really its hard for them to stop it. Unless all country's in the world goes together against it it will live. That the goverments are making statements about it, even bad, is still good for the community. What that US bank is doing is funny. Don't think their currency will fail. Decentralization is the biggest advantage of bitcoins. Buying for a smaller amount everyday as you do JJG is smart since you are spreading the risk. Right now they are shipping bitcoins ATMs around the world. Check https://robocoinkiosk.com/. Bitcoins are here to stay. They can't stop it.
Of the 52BTC I bought I've got at the moment 27.5 in my wallet. 8.5 invested in KnC miner group buy. 7 invested in mining contracts. 2 invested in mastercoins. 1.2 invested in alt-coins. The 5.8 that is left I've cashed out. Might have to sell another 0.5 to make the budget for this month. Not because I'm tight with money but with this much in BTC saving I see no problem spending whatever makes me happy. fortyfor, I'm not going to argue with you, but in my head you are lost in this discussion and don't know what you are talking about.
I believe nothing else that the price will continue to rise. Most people who are in it believe in it and to sell right now would be stupid.
Neo · 2013-12-14 16:10:00 · #676
@JayJuan
Did you do all the verifications through coinbase? Once I did I was able to buy 0.1 instantly with no wait. Didn't check today though. I didn't mind doing them because I have no intention of using them for anything illegal so I don't care if they know who I am or not.
They did cancel my first transaction saying it was 'high risk', but I emailed them and the others went through fine.
Before the instant transactions it was taking about 4 days. It was annoying, but I'm not day trading with these, I'm going to use them for some small transactions and buy and hold the rest.
I'm hoping that the entrepreneur.com article is true and wall street gets involved with large sums of $$$, I think all this news is a positive sign and the price will continue to rise.
Did you do all the verifications through coinbase? Once I did I was able to buy 0.1 instantly with no wait. Didn't check today though. I didn't mind doing them because I have no intention of using them for anything illegal so I don't care if they know who I am or not.
They did cancel my first transaction saying it was 'high risk', but I emailed them and the others went through fine.
Before the instant transactions it was taking about 4 days. It was annoying, but I'm not day trading with these, I'm going to use them for some small transactions and buy and hold the rest.
I'm hoping that the entrepreneur.com article is true and wall street gets involved with large sums of $$$, I think all this news is a positive sign and the price will continue to rise.
JayJuanGee · 2013-12-14 16:15:00 · #677
(12-14-2013 02:23 PM)el mechanico Wrote: If there's a wait to buy them on coinbase wouldnt that mean the price is going up?
My Coinbase NOTICE on my account went away, and I was able to make my daily purchase. Which is really a relief b/c I did NOT want the hassle of having to buy BTC at a higher price. I do pay 1% fee for each Coinbase transaction from fiat to BTC; however, if I can time my buy fairly decently, then I can feel o.k. about the 1% fee b/c I have been fairly successful at buying during dips.
It may be true what Coinbase said in their NOTICE about reaching their daily BUY limit (and the way the NOTICE was phrased gave me the impression that they have an overall limit for all account holders, the NOTICE was NOT targeted at my buying for the day, b/c I had NOT yet bought for the day) or maybe it was just a glitch in the Coinbase software.
In any event we are back in business, and I would imagine that these kinds of glitches are going to be resolved in the future, and competition will be available so a guy will NOT be stuck with only one decent source for making transactions from fiat to BTC and vice versa.
To attempt to address your question, I am still bullish on BTC, but who knows in the short term, as Friheten said, the negative news is really NOT that negative at the moment and even during the last week, but BTC has been fairly flat for nearly three days.. and if anything a slightly lowering trend over the three days.. but only slightly b/c all of my transactions in the past 3 days have been in the mid $800s.