Post: #176

(10-14-2013 08:37 PM)coopers317 Wrote:  Racism/Safety
Contrary to a lot of opinions on the board, I really did not experience any. In my little over two weeks there I was not stopped once by the police, and I was walking all over the place during all times of the day and night. I would walk past them, and they would be in groups of 2, 3, and as many as 5 on a couple of occasions…but no stops. I rode the Metro and buses, no problem. I can't guarantee that everybody's experience will be the same, just as I cannot promise that the next time you step on a plane it won't go down. But what I am saying is that I think this concern is a little bit overblown, most of all by other blacks, who have probably never stepped foot in Kiev due to the exaggerated fears of what might happen. I was the ONLY black person around for 98% of my time there, and so obviously I got plenty of stares and a few glares…but the vast majority of it I believe it was out of curiosity more than anything else. I did meet a couple of black guys, one who plays in the basketball league there, and met a guy from the UK who I hung out with a bit.

I hung out on Kreschatyk plenty for the first week, simply because there was a lot happening, especially on the weekends, and also to get my bearings and develop a feeling of safety (because of all the stories I heard about). The next time I go (and I will go back), I will definitely venture off a bit, but maybe not too far, as there is a lot more to the city than just this part…something I discovered during the second week.

There is no point in me sugar coating it, Ukraine is racist imo but it is more subtle and less overt, you won't get a beat down but more likely socially shunned. If you are Turkish or Middle Eastern you will struggle getting the kind of girls that have any kind of options for themselves, especially in the provinces. The girls an Arab or black dude will get will also appear more transactional to them the reason being a girl is lowering her status by dating an Arab or non-white, she is taking a risk of being ostracised, of being looked down upon by her peers and hence if she is going to lower her status like that then she will want compensating for doing so which leads to such men calling the women mercenary. In Bolero night club in Kharkiv last week three Arab dudes were barred from entry by bouncers whilst everyone else was allowed in. The local girls don't want them in there and so the bouncers don't allow them. I would say black dudes have it better than Arabs in Ukraine but again black dudes will struggle to get a decent local girl i.e anyone better than they get back home and one who is desired by other men. I met some really cool Nigerian guys in a club in Kharkov and they had zero success there from what I could gather through talking to them although I saw another light skinned black dude dancing with a girl. They had been in the city for 5 years and appeared to have nothing. So take this into account when deciding to head there. If you're Arab looking stick to where the looser women hang out such as vodka bar or Shooters. In the provinces or off the Kreschatic expect to be treated a certain way and struggle because the girl will always feel that she is dating a guy she doesn't ideally want to be with.

Post: #177

(03-01-2013 09:52 PM)slubu Wrote:  Vodka Bar was enjoyable. I have no idea how an 80% figure was reached. I brought back several girls from there, only fucked 1 but had another sleep over and had random shenanigans with another. Like Alexander said it was very West like except for the language barrier. Stand by bar, talk to girl, order $1 vodka shots, invite them back to the apartment.

You are correct, I don't know how the 80% figure was reached either. That's because the % is much higher than that, probably 95%.

Vodka bar is full of pro or semi-pros. I know you might think that the girl at the bar that you took home after a few shots was a 'student' as she said but believe me, she weren't. Vodka bar is a whore hang out. The clientèle are mainly Turks, sex tourists, poorly turned out lower class foreigners and nasty Brits: decent non pro girls don't go there. I like Vodka bar, was in it twice this last week but I don't fall for the smoke and mirrors that the women in there try to throw up. No regular girl meaning one not looking for some kind of transaction heads there. I know a lot of regular girls in Kiev and they give a look of disgust when you mention it. I don't even mention I have been there to them because I know I'd immediately lower my value to them by a long way. The problem is that foreign men don't know how to recognise a pro or semi-pro half the time in Ukraine. The only poster on here I have read who does is a guy called Greek Kamaki. I have picked up a pro in the Kreschatik through a street approach who I banged the same night but she never asked me for money in the morning, it's the way they play it sometimes to suit their own ends but in a roundabout way. You have to know the signs, read between the lines, play them back.

The reason I'm talking about this is because I saw people saying they got a ONS from Vodka bar or Shooters, well that is misleading guys who have not been to Ukraine because what that poster is not mentioning is that the girl was 99% pro or semi-pro, it is not the real Ukraine not the real dynamic that prevails here in Ukraine. It leads to false statistics and false hopes. No guy should mention bangs picked up in Vodka bar, it's meaningless to any guy chasing regular girls imo.

Post: #178

Busted Dudes In Ukraine:

I had heard it said and seen it written that the guys there are virtually sub-human Neanderthal types. The truth is again that it's not like that there, far from it. I'd say they are not much worse turned out than most guys I know back home in many cases better.

There are two types of Ukrainian guys, the competition and non-competition. The non-competition are the guys walking past you in the underpasses, provincial country bumpkin types that are busted, guys with little money to go out. We don't meet them in places where women go and hence they are irrelevant to us. Who cares how busted they are? The guys we need concern ourselves with are the types you see in clubs - direct competition. And those guys are no worse than most of us I'd guess, in some cases better. They are neatly presented, not obese, carry themselves confidently and have enough money to drink in good clubs such as in Kharkov Bolero or Misto or Radmir. You'll often see them with a table by the dance floor, Kalyan pipe stoked up, bottles of JD in an ice bucket, fruit platter and surrounded by attractive girls. That is the competition. And although they might not be dressed in what we deem latest fashion or labels they have a huge advantage over you in knowing the language. They will also cockblock you given the chance a lot of the time if you hit on one of their girls. Had it the other night in Radmir Club. 2 girls one guy together ( common dynamic ). The guy was telling the girl I was talking to that I was a local pretending to be a foreigner. It's ok I speak Russian but if I didn't I'd have no idea what was going down and been cock blocked.

Post: #179

(12-05-2013 01:35 PM)Chikatilo Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 08:37 PM)coopers317 Wrote:  Racism/Safety
Contrary to a lot of opinions on the board, I really did not experience any. In my little over two weeks there I was not stopped once by the police, and I was walking all over the place during all times of the day and night. I would walk past them, and they would be in groups of 2, 3, and as many as 5 on a couple of occasions…but no stops. I rode the Metro and buses, no problem. I can't guarantee that everybody's experience will be the same, just as I cannot promise that the next time you step on a plane it won't go down. But what I am saying is that I think this concern is a little bit overblown, most of all by other blacks, who have probably never stepped foot in Kiev due to the exaggerated fears of what might happen. I was the ONLY black person around for 98% of my time there, and so obviously I got plenty of stares and a few glares…but the vast majority of it I believe it was out of curiosity more than anything else. I did meet a couple of black guys, one who plays in the basketball league there, and met a guy from the UK who I hung out with a bit.

I hung out on Kreschatyk plenty for the first week, simply because there was a lot happening, especially on the weekends, and also to get my bearings and develop a feeling of safety (because of all the stories I heard about). The next time I go (and I will go back), I will definitely venture off a bit, but maybe not too far, as there is a lot more to the city than just this part…something I discovered during the second week.

There is no point in me sugar coating it, Ukraine is racist imo but it is more subtle and less overt, you won't get a beat down but more likely socially shunned. If you are Turkish or Middle Eastern you will struggle getting the kind of girls that have any kind of options for themselves, especially in the provinces. The girls an Arab or black dude will get will also appear more transactional to them the reason being a girl is lowering her status by dating an Arab or non-white, she is taking a risk of being ostracised, of being looked down upon by her peers and hence if she is going to lower her status like that then she will want compensating for doing so which leads to such men calling the women mercenary. In Bolero night club in Kharkiv last week three Arab dudes were barred from entry by bouncers whilst everyone else was allowed in. The local girls don't want them in there and so the bouncers don't allow them. I would say black dudes have it better than Arabs in Ukraine but again black dudes will struggle to get a decent local girl i.e anyone better than they get back home and one who is desired by other men. I met some really cool Nigerian guys in a club in Kharkov and they had zero success there from what I could gather through talking to them although I saw another light skinned black dude dancing with a girl. They had been in the city for 5 years and appeared to have nothing. So take this into account when deciding to head there. If you're Arab looking stick to where the looser women hang out such as vodka bar or Shooters. In the provinces or off the Kreschatic expect to be treated a certain way and struggle because the girl will always feel that she is dating a guy she doesn't ideally want to be with.

did you make it to Lviv ??? how's the situation there ???

Post: #180

(12-05-2013 02:53 PM)Chikatilo Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 09:52 PM)slubu Wrote:  Vodka Bar was enjoyable. I have no idea how an 80% figure was reached. I brought back several girls from there, only fucked 1 but had another sleep over and had random shenanigans with another. Like Alexander said it was very West like except for the language barrier. Stand by bar, talk to girl, order $1 vodka shots, invite them back to the apartment.

You are correct, I don't know how the 80% figure was reached either. That's because the % is much higher than that, probably 95%.

Vodka bar is full of pro or semi-pros. I know you might think that the girl at the bar that you took home after a few shots was a 'student' as she said but believe me, she weren't. Vodka bar is a whore hang out. The clientèle are mainly Turks, sex tourists, poorly turned out lower class foreigners and nasty Brits: decent non pro girls don't go there. I like Vodka bar, was in it twice this last week but I don't fall for the smoke and mirrors that the women in there try to throw up. No regular girl meaning one not looking for some kind of transaction heads there. I know a lot of regular girls in Kiev and they give a look of disgust when you mention it. I don't even mention I have been there to them because I know I'd immediately lower my value to them by a long way. The problem is that foreign men don't know how to recognise a pro or semi-pro half the time in Ukraine. The only poster on here I have read who does is a guy called Greek Kamaki. I have picked up a pro in the Kreschatik through a street approach who I banged the same night but she never asked me for money in the morning, it's the way they play it sometimes to suit their own ends but in a roundabout way. You have to know the signs, read between the lines, play them back.

The reason I'm talking about this is because I saw people saying they got a ONS from Vodka bar or Shooters, well that is misleading guys who have not been to Ukraine because what that poster is not mentioning is that the girl was 99% pro or semi-pro, it is not the real Ukraine not the real dynamic that prevails here in Ukraine. It leads to false statistics and false hopes. No guy should mention bangs picked up in Vodka bar, it's meaningless to any guy chasing regular girls imo.

Why do you like Vodka Bar if it's 99% full of prostitutes?, you like to pay for sex?

Granted there are a lot of sluts in Vodka Bar, the ones you can pay directly, or indirectly through drinks, gifts etc.

I've fucked a few normal girls from there, no problem. Last time I went there I had possibilities, but it was hideous and vowed never to return, there's other places there are much better and are not frequented by Arabs/Turks

Post: #181

(12-05-2013 02:53 PM)Chikatilo Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 09:52 PM)slubu Wrote:  Vodka Bar was enjoyable. I have no idea how an 80% figure was reached. I brought back several girls from there

No guy should mention bangs picked up in Vodka bar, it's meaningless to any guy chasing regular girls imo.

Chik - I agree with your assessment, as I was in Kiev 3 times over the last year.
Since you too have apparently have "shored" a pro or semi-pro too's according to your posts, this begs the question.

How much less of a 1 night stand is that considered to you ?

A "normal/ regular' girl who might take 2-5 dates to bang, some guys don't have that much time.

Post: #182

@Chikatilo, Clunge

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you guys. With my experience of probably around 50+ visits last summer and knowing many ukrainian guys, who are regulars there, I think I can give a pretty good assessment on that place:

Vodkabar has the worst repuation in Kiev. Correct! Even worse than Shooters, which is already considered as a foreign pickup place.
The place has probably around 10% hardcore hookers, easily to spot as they dont dance,stand alone or with co-worker at the bar and wait to be picked-up. Then there are some semi-pros, partying with the guys and ready to make some bucks.

The majority of girls though are usually in groups, blocking any attempts from Turks/Arabs quite harsh, from western foreigners polite.When you are with with local guys, their behaviour totally changes. Try to ask those girls for a price - I guarantee, you will get some serious trouble there. As I usually closed that place, it was interesting to see that the girls who come without guys, also leave the place alone, although there are more than enough horny guys around, who are willing to pay.

Yes, a nice ukrainian girl will always say that this place is so sleazy and she would never go there. As I usually went to other places before I took quite a few girls there, as I lived close by. All were curious to see it once and to go there when other places close is absolutely accepted - however I would not recommend to take your date there early at night- I agree this could lower your value, as there are much better options available.

So why are still many normal girls going there:

Well, the place is located in absolute city centre right on Maidan. Especially on Su-Wed there are not many alternatives in Kiev, while Vodkarbar is crowded 7 days a week till late. Also the place has no cover for girls. They come in groups to Kreschatik and ukrainian girls are confident enough to stop for some party even in a place with horny sex tourists. Bitch shields there even higher than in other places.

Post: #183

(12-05-2013 01:35 PM)Chikatilo Wrote:  The local girls don't want them in there and so the bouncers don't allow them. I would say black dudes have it better than Arabs in Ukraine but again black dudes will struggle to get a decent local girl i.e anyone better than they get back home and one who is desired by other men. I met some really cool Nigerian guys in a club in Kharkov and they had zero success there from what I could gather through talking to them although I saw another light skinned black dude dancing with a girl. They had been in the city for 5 years and appeared to have nothing. So take this into account when deciding to head there.

I guess I'm the light skinned brotha then...I agree with you that there is obviously some racism there, but this whole thing is just way overblown in my opinion. I had no problems. And like I said in that initial post, I can't guarantee that everybody's experience will be the same as mine, but I think you'll be ok. It sort of reminds me of when I used to live in New York and people would come to visit us and be all apoplectic about getting robbed or mugged, and terrified to even take the subway...fears gone way wild. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but chances are you'll be just fine if you don't act like an idiot. Posting this picture below so as you can see I'm probably of the complexion you referred to...so yes, I danced a little.

   

But just a word for my African brothers...One mid-day I'm sitting and chatting with some guys I met up with in Globus Mall getting a bite to eat. The next thing I know one of the the finest most beautiful Ukrainian women I saw in my time in Kiev walked by, I'm talking maybe top 3, and about 5' 9 tall. Who was she with? A suited up African who was a "no doubt about it very dark African". The brotha was stepping, and she was right behind him lock step...and there was no shame in her game.

And a word about Vodka Bar. Went there a couple of times because on some nights it seemed to be the only thing open, and I was staying in an apartment literally right across the street. Pros and semi pros?....yep, there are plenty. It's pretty obvious actually. But I must say that it was there that I finally heard some good music. I'm talking real old school hip hop. I don't know where this DJ came from but on this night he played a montage/string of what seemed like every old school hip hop song even I could think of, the English versions. A definite upgrade and pleasurable respite from the usual terrible Ukrainian/Russian rap...I'm sorry fellas, but some of that stuff is terrible. So on this night I am the only black guy in the place...instant cred, instant dance partners. It was hella fun, and I'm not even a big club guy. It was here that I found out that they don't really like the Turks...heard about it all night from one chick. Easy to spot them as they all seem to get bottle service...three dudes sitting around a table staring at each other. It was also here that I almost got into it with some Russian dude, who Ukrainians don't seem to like too much either...another story for another time.

I've gotten off track a little, but if you are a black guy and want to go to Ukraine, just buy the ticket and go. Don't try to overthink it.

Post: #184

Guys, this has all been covered before in the below thread on racism in Kiev.


/thread-22092.html

Please "don't beat a dead dog", instead let's continue talking about game over there. I am especially interested to hear from members how the current political crisis is affecting the mood, are people even going out anymore downtown? I'm sure Vodka bar is suffering considering it is surrounded 24-7 by thousands of protesters on the square above it.

Post: #185

(12-05-2013 04:30 PM)Clunge Wrote:  Why do you like Vodka Bar if it's 99% full of prostitutes?, you like to pay for sex?

No.

Vodka bar is a great place for pre-game and getting into state imo. It's bang in the centre, no entry fee, cheap enough drinks, decent music and people to get talkative with. Then you bounce to a decent place alone.

Post: #186

(12-05-2013 05:47 PM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 02:53 PM)Chikatilo Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 09:52 PM)slubu Wrote:  Vodka Bar was enjoyable. I have no idea how an 80% figure was reached. I brought back several girls from there

No guy should mention bangs picked up in Vodka bar, it's meaningless to any guy chasing regular girls imo.

Chik - I agree with your assessment, as I was in Kiev 3 times over the last year.
Since you too have apparently have "shored" a pro or semi-pro too's according to your posts, this begs the question.

How much less of a 1 night stand is that considered to you ?

A "normal/ regular' girl who might take 2-5 dates to bang, some guys don't have that much time.

Yeah I been thinking about this. To me I don't count it as a ONS because she was a pro or semi-pro even though no money was asked for. It took less game for me to close the deal than with a regular Ukrianian chick. Hey, I enjoyed myself, a lot, but I don't count it or allow it to influence buddies of mine when they are making a choice of destination.

Sure some guys don't have 5 dates to close deals, I get that and for them a Vodka bar girl is good but my point is that Vodka bar is distorting ideas about Ukraine just like banging pro's in Pattaya in no way means that upper class Thai girls are also available so easily.

Post: #187

(12-06-2013 04:31 AM)Chikatilo Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 04:30 PM)Clunge Wrote:  Why do you like Vodka Bar if it's 99% full of prostitutes?, you like to pay for sex?

No.

Vodka bar is a great place for pre-game and getting into state imo. It's bang in the centre, no entry fee, cheap enough drinks, decent music and people to get talkative with. Then you bounce to a decent place alone.

Quote:The clientèle are mainly Turks, sex tourists, poorly turned out lower class foreigners and nasty Brits: decent non pro girls don't go there. I like Vodka bar

Hmmmm not my idea of getting into state, also there is a cover charge on most nights

Post: #188

City Centre Pad Is Best Right?...Maybe Not:

I always thought that city centre pads were the most legit way to close deals. You're close to the centre right? Close to clubs right? Close to bars right? Gyms? Well sometimes but the centres of cities there seem to be dead in late evening mainly because population figures for centres are much lower than in the suburbs. Centre of cities are made up of retail establishments built into Stalinka buildings. Banks and cell phone shops. It's not dense in terms of numbers of people living there. So where are the people at? They're out in the burbs, millions of them crammed into apartment buildings at the end of the metro or bus line. And out in the suburbs are places catering to the residents. On a Sunday night myself and a buddie hit the suburbs, we entered a bar at about 9pm and it was packed with people dancing and drinking, women in swimsuits danced on the bar. Three attractive women walked out and smiled and engaged us in conversation usually we had to approach them. Meanwhile in the centre of town the place was quiet. On another occasion in the burbs we hit a bar surrounded by apartment buildings, the guys in there hearing American accents immediately insisted on buying us drinks and pulled a girl over to meet us. The girls at tables were looking over and smiling inquisitively.

The point I am highlighting is that action is happening, particularly on a work night, in the suburbs where there are bars and clubs catering to the huge population numbers and the people who don't want to travel into the centre. Responses in the suburbs are also much better. In the suburbs locals are much more intrigued by you as you are a rarity unlike in centres. It's not that the locals have not seen a foreigner before that gets the positive reaction. It's that they have not seen a foreigner in their suburban drinking hole that gets the reaction. Like "what the fuck are you doing out here?" but in a good way. Added to this is the much lower rents, probably 40% less and cheaper prices in supermarkets or bars. Suburbs also have everything else you need at lower costs like gyms etc.

The down side is the lack of wow factor when you pull the 'do you want to see where I live' swoop but that is compensated by the higher numbers of responsive women you are meeting. It's a trade off but a good one imo.

Post: #189

(12-06-2013 05:04 AM)Chikatilo Wrote:  On a Sunday night myself and a buddie hit the suburbs, we entered a bar at about 9pm and it was packed with people dancing and drinking, women in swimsuits danced on the bar.

...name of this suburban kiev bar?

Post: #190

(12-06-2013 02:46 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 05:04 AM)Chikatilo Wrote:  On a Sunday night myself and a buddie hit the suburbs, we entered a bar at about 9pm and it was packed with people dancing and drinking, women in swimsuits danced on the bar.

...name of this suburban kiev bar?

Just wandering, was this suburb located on the other side of Dnieper River by all the new high rises, Darnytskyi District?

Also, as a veteran of Ukraine trips myself I am wandering how the logistics would play out. Kiev is a very spread out city and pulling a girl from a downtown club to a suburban apartment say 9km away for an after party might be very tough. For example, the WOW factor will be minimized and I would think some shit tests would be in order as any girl would wonder why a rich foreigner is living in a $30/night Soviet era 5 story apartment building.

Post: #191

(08-20-2013 08:15 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  Ukrainian is a waste to learn. Except for Lviv every other Ukrainian speaking city is small. They all understand Russian. Everyone speaks Russian but a lot don't speak Ukrainian. It wouldn't hurt though to do some pimsler in Ukraine language if going west.

What about after all this nationalism and anti-Russian sentiment? Will speaking Ukrainian be seen as a DHV, in that you've got your finger on the pulse of the country etc? Is Russian seen as the language of the enemy in a sense? Although I know Russian is an overall better investment as you can use it in Russia and other places too.

Post: #192

(12-06-2013 04:57 AM)Clunge Wrote:  Hmmmm not my idea of getting into state, also there is a cover charge on most nights

Sounds like you go there far more often than me. I've never been asked cover.

Post: #193

Chikatilo I have to disagree with your assessments. Yes there are a lot of turks and probably working girls at Shooters and Vodka Bar but it is not all that by any means. My buddy and I have combined brought home or actually DATED girls we met there. This includes:

- Virgin (confirmed) that I dated for 5 weeks total over two trips
- Lawyer my buddy dated for a month roughly
- Cousins we banged same night
- Multiple students

We've gone through some efforts to date some of these girls too, especially at Vodka bar. I've had a girl tell me to fuck off and then later come back and apologize saying she thought I was just a sex tourist and she is defensive when she is there. My buddy had to talk to the lawyer for an hour before she even gave her number. And I've met a lot of girls that go to Vodka/Shooters to club in a "relaxing" environment in the sense that at higher end places like D'lux and Decadence, etc. they have to be in tip top dress and can't enjoy themselves by drinking a lot.

I will say however Vodka Bar is the seediest bar I've gone to in Kiev in terms of just old men and turkish guys standing around staring at girls. However, there are normal girls there and some I've met have been incredibly sweet.

Post: #194

Chikatilo, I am currently living in the suburbs of Kharkiv. You bring up some great points but I'd like to mention some negatives of the suburbs:

1) harder logistically to arrange a date near your flat
2) less wow factor when you bring a girl back to your flat, and wow factor helps you close the deal
3) if a girl lives in a different suburb than you, then she lives really far away

Your point about saving money and shopping is absolutely correct. My rent is only 2500 UAH vs 4000 UAH when I lived in the center. I like to eat at home, and I find shopping for food to be easier now too.

In Kharkiv, your strategy is especially doable as one suburb has quick access to three awesome clubs. Where I'm at, I can walk home from either Plazma or Bolero in 20-25 minutes, and Radmir might be walkable too although I haven't tried yet.

Post: #195

(03-04-2013 05:21 AM)gadabout Wrote:  Quite right.
My main gripe with Kiev was not necessarily that they were working girls but the fact they were disingenuous. I am sure guys are getting laid in these clubs without directly paying for it, but you can spot these seemingly genuine girls a mile off. After 3 weeks in Kiev I returned to Vodka bar on a wim since i was walking past it. Sure enough there were the same types of guys talking to the same girls that frequent there and similar bars known to tourists. It's a false enterprise. AS long as you know that then fine, but don't think you swooped these girls because of your good looks and witty banter.
try some of the venues I mentioned in another Ukraine Kiev and it is an entirely different ball game.

Agreed. In fact if I'd read that post earlier I'd never had bothered posting my own opinions on the matter.

(12-07-2013 01:19 PM)slubu Wrote:  Chikatilo I have to disagree with your assessments. Yes there are a lot of turks and probably working girls at Shooters and Vodka Bar but it is not all that by any means. My buddy and I have combined brought home or actually DATED girls we met there. This includes:

- Virgin (confirmed) that I dated for 5 weeks total over two trips
- Lawyer my buddy dated for a month roughly
- Cousins we banged same night
- Multiple students

We've gone through some efforts to date some of these girls too, especially at Vodka bar. I've had a girl tell me to fuck off and then later come back and apologize saying she thought I was just a sex tourist and she is defensive when she is there. My buddy had to talk to the lawyer for an hour before she even gave her number. And I've met a lot of girls that go to Vodka/Shooters to club in a "relaxing" environment in the sense that at higher end places like D'lux and Decadence, etc. they have to be in tip top dress and can't enjoy themselves by drinking a lot.

I will say however Vodka Bar is the seediest bar I've gone to in Kiev in terms of just old men and turkish guys standing around staring at girls. However, there are normal girls there and some I've met have been incredibly sweet.

That's your experience and that's cool and all but you are much more generous in your opinions of the girls there than me. Let's analyse what you've written there for a second:

You and your bud banged cousins the same night you met them in Vodka bar.

That's cool and I ain't knocking your efforts there, a big high five from me, but do you not see that that is entirely out of the ordinary for Ukraine? That kind of shit only happens in Vodka Bar or Shooters or the girls you meet in Mafia etc. That kind of shit doesn't go down with untainted girls in Ukraine that you meet in 'regular' places. I don't know if this is true but didn't Roosh say he had never had a ONS in Ukraine? You're going to a known whore hang out and meeting virgins, 'sweet' girls, students etc. I'm only giving my opinion here so don't take it as an affront but I'm saying that they are all 'students' in Vodka bar, they are all 'sweet' innocent girls there. It's the smoke and mirrors of the place where whores don't want you to think they are whores. It's the game. Whores who are virgins. Pro's who are economics students. Hardened pro's who are sweet girls that totally dig you and your funny accent. I've been in places in Kiev and Moscow where if I'd chosen to believe it I'd have thought I was the wittiest guy in the room, the best looking mofo to roll through those doors, alas...

The proof is in the pudding and the true situation in Ukraine with non tainted girls can only be judged fully away from the tourist hang outs: guys need to go to a non tourist bar without the sex tourists and pro's. Go to a place not on the Kreschatik or on the 'list', somewhere professionals ( not as in pro's ) and office workers go after work for a drink. Have a night there and then judge Ukraine. I'm saying double teaming cousins with your buddy happens in Vodka Bar but not in Yalta Bar or Starograd and the reason for that is, to me and Gadabout it seems, obvious.

Don't take my post as anything but seeing things my own way. You keep on trucking with the way you do things, you're obviously getting what you're searching for there.

I think Ukraine is the best place in Europe if you like Slavic girls. But if you're considering it and searching for decent girls then take with a large pinch of salt any reports of bangs pulled from Vodka, Shooters, Mafia etc.

Post: #196

(12-08-2013 04:19 PM)Chikatilo Wrote:  You and your bud banged cousins the same night you met them in Vodka bar.

That's cool and I ain't knocking your efforts there, a big high five from me, but do you not see that that is entirely out of the ordinary for Ukraine? That kind of shit only happens in Vodka Bar or Shooters or the girls you meet in Mafia etc. That kind of shit doesn't go down with untainted girls in Ukraine that you meet in 'regular' places. I don't know if this is true but didn't Roosh say he had never had a ONS in Ukraine? You're going to a known whore hang out and meeting virgins, 'sweet' girls, students etc. I'm only giving my opinion here so don't take it as an affront but I'm saying that they are all 'students' in Vodka bar, they are all 'sweet' innocent girls there. It's the smoke and mirrors of the place where whores don't want you to think they are whores. It's the game. Whores who are virgins. Pro's who are economics students. Hardened pro's who are sweet girls that totally dig you and your funny accent. I've been in places in Kiev and Moscow where if I'd chosen to believe it I'd have thought I was the wittiest guy in the room, the best looking mofo to roll through those doors, alas...

The proof is in the pudding and the true situation in Ukraine with non tainted girls can only be judged fully away from the tourist hang outs: guys need to go to a non tourist bar without the sex tourists and pro's. Go to a place not on the Kreschatik or on the 'list', somewhere professionals ( not as in pro's ) and office workers go after work for a drink. Have a night there and then judge Ukraine. I'm saying double teaming cousins with your buddy happens in Vodka Bar but not in Yalta Bar or Starograd and the reason for that is, to me and Gadabout it seems, obvious.

Don't take my post as anything but seeing things my own way. You keep on trucking with the way you do things, you're obviously getting what you're searching for there.

I think Ukraine is the best place in Europe if you like Slavic girls. But if you're considering it and searching for decent girls then take with a large pinch of salt any reports of bangs pulled from Vodka, Shooters, Mafia etc.

I really think you're missing the point. Girls want to have fun, so what? They choose where and with whom. Some are pros or semi-pros too, they hang out there because they know they are in demand. Most of the time I just ignore them, or tell them they should pay me and they disappear, no harm done.

Tainted Ukraine girls? What is that? Ukraine girls who want to meet foreigners? Ukraine girls who speak English?

How about the opposite who want a Ukraine guy who can style them. Can you imagine what they are willing to do to stave off the other hordes of HBs who want to steal him away? Are they more or less tainted?

Decent girls? Is a girl who does ONS from a student bar more decent? Or are you saying that all girls who want to do SNL or ONS are indecent?

Every city has places where girls go to meet foreigners. Some of them are going there to get a no-strings attached lay, some want free drinks, and some are convinced that the grass is greener on the other side so they want to try it (sound familiar?). If you want to put a label on them, call them girls who want to meet foreigners. I think Ukraine guys who are sporting around the Tier I girls and have even a little game see stuff that you would never believe is true if somebody wrote it here.

The point is, that as a foreigner, you'll probably not see the "real" Ukraine. You'll get closer if you can speak great Russian, but unless you burn your western passport, you'll always have a novelty value that a "real" local don't have.

Post: #197

The thing about Vodka bar is that is right on Independence square, you get people from all over the place going there. I've seen loads of hen nights, girls having parties, and have had lays from there, all of them very nice, and didn't ask me for anything.

It's a bar that you will find in the epicentre of any major city, a tourist trap, but can be fun sometimes.

The issue with Vodka bar is not that there are prostitutes in there, I have never met a prostitute in a bar in Ukraine, and have been many times. (Also I can't imagine a hooker every approaching me for cash, she can tell that I'm not the kind of guy that would pay for it), it's actually finding a girl I want to have sex with. Some nights are better than others, last time I went there it was a Wednesday and horrendous, ratios were horrible and so were the women. It was completely full of Turkish and Arabic men. These guys will rarely go anywhere else but Vodka bar because it's in the centre and they feel somewhat safe, if they go to some place out of the centre in all likelyhood they will have problems. It's the same in other Ukrainian cities.

Quote:Decent girls? Is a girl who does ONS from a student bar more decent? Or are you saying that all girls who want to do SNL or ONS are indecent?

Good point, what is a decent Ukrainian girl?

Girls in Ukraine like to have fun, many of them dont even want to drink or look for sex, they just want to dance, so they go to nightclubs/bars.

If I was a Ukrainian girl I would be on the lookout for foreigners, Ukrainian girls are always remarking how "Cool" and "fun" my friends and I are in comparison to the locals guys, they like to hang out with us, they like to talk English.

There are nightclubs in Ukraine that women go to week in and week out to find a rich guy, these girls are semi-prostitutes as they will give it up to a guy who spends money on here all night, but it's not an exchange of banknotes usually.

Quote:That kind of shit doesn't go down with untainted girls in Ukraine that you meet in 'regular' places. I don't know if this is true but didn't Roosh say he had never had a ONS in Ukraine? You're going to a known whore hang out and meeting virgins, 'sweet' girls, students etc.

So yeah I don't know what an untainted girl is, and I don't know what a regular place is in Ukraine.

I don't disbelieve that someone and his friend bedded two cousins there, I wouldn't even be surprised if Slubu said he did them at the same time. I've had some crazy experiences in Ukraine, and sometimes when i'm least expecting.

Post: #198

can anybody in Kiev comment on the protests going on?

http://www.radiosvoboda.org/media/video/25193599.html

Post: #199

I like Chicatilos post. I thought that Shooters was great for me and my wing-man however we met some major gold diggers there who took us all over downtown to fancy diners such as Mafia restaurant and we were naive not to notice that, i.e., being blinded by alcohol and their beauty.

Vodka bar was crap and I also thought that it was overrun by foreign guys, primarily of the Arab variety. Other than Decadence Vodka bar had the least friendly, and least normal looking girls.

"Go to a place not on the Kreschatik or on the 'list', somewhere professionals ( not as in pro's ) and office workers go after work for a drink. Have a night there and then judge Ukraine"

Chicalitos statement above is golden. I think that will be my next strategy when I go to UA. I am also looking for a relationship so normal girls will definitely be high on my list including of course hitting some of the suburban bars during the night and malls for day game.

Post: #200

(12-06-2013 02:46 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 05:04 AM)Chikatilo Wrote:  On a Sunday night myself and a buddie hit the suburbs, we entered a bar at about 9pm and it was packed with people dancing and drinking, women in swimsuits danced on the bar.

...name of this suburban kiev bar?

Chikatilo - yes please do give more details of places and experiences outside the Center that you speak about. Although I speak only English with a proper russian speaking wingman I would like to check out some of these places on my next visit.