Post: #26

The OP got banned, but I've been looking into the good looking loser approach anxiety program and it's exactly what the OP was asking for, in case anyone reading this needs it.

Didn't try it myself and the website has too much blahblahblah for my liking, but the program looks like it may help a newbie. It's starts just saying hi and asking for the time, and then progresses from there. Nothing groundbreaking but sometimes it's good to have a plan to follow.



Anyone has opinions on that program? I still need a push and I may give it a try.

Post: #27

(09-01-2013 08:28 AM)Odiseus Wrote:  I've been looking into the good looking loser approach anxiety program

Anyone has opinions on that program?

I have studied it and I helped another member incorporate it into his practice plan.

Honestly, I don't think its that great. It's just average. It's a cool website but that approach anxiety program is not aggressive or masculine enough in my personal opinion. Too much beating around the bush and indirect efforts to face your fears.

I created an approach anxiety program that was custom made to fit the personality and gaming style of the guy I was helping.

That program just moves way to slow for me. We need to be aggressive in dealing with this problem of anxiety.

That said, most newbies would benefit from following a "plan". So, if you don't have access to any other plan, then that plan will not hurt your game and in fact it will help.

Don't get me wrong, its not a bad plan and it will help guys. I just think that it is very basic and cautious and most guys would learn faster with a more ballsy plan. Maybe, a good idea would be to use that plan as a guide but just be more aggressive then what they recommend.

If you need help creating a more specific game plan, let me know..

"If men knew how women thought, they would be 20 times more daring in their approaches"

Post: #28

(08-26-2013 02:44 PM)germanico Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 11:53 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  Put yourself in life and death situations

Ive seen cops and soldiers who never hesitated to go into a firefight, yet could never bring themselves up to a girl.

True, I have also seen situations like that. Boxers, athletes, soldiers, etc. who had approach anxiety even though they were professional tough guys..

Maybe, its because their mind has normalized those scary situations for work. But, there mind has not normalized approaching women???

I agree with you. But, I still recommend that the average guy with approach anxiety put himself into scary situations like skydiving, boxing, shooting guns, etc. The average guy has not normalized these things and they could relieve some of the fear in his mind.

Anxiety is fear. Fear must be faced with boldness.

At the end of the day, we all must simply approach women with courage and bravery.

The faster you do this, the faster your approach anxiety will go away.

(08-26-2013 03:43 PM)Dusty Wrote:  This topic fascinates me. I'm writing a book about conquering approach anxiety. I don't want to reveal too much yet, but I developed an easy to follow program using empirically tested techniques from the field of psychology.

I am also fascinated by this and I have also thought about writing a book about it. Maybe, one day I will.

It would probably be more of a "guide" as I think it would only take about 10-20 pages to explain it.

I can't wait to read your thoughts on the subject..

Post: #29

The greatest insight I have read about AA is from LaidNYC in an interview he did with manosphere radio. He made the point that you should not try to eliminate AA, but rather to accept it and approach anyway. Just have to keep plugging away, and if you have success, do not rest on your laurels, as one forum member has told me. I have a bad habit of getting positive results and then getting self-satisfied. Wrong. Use positive momentum to keep going as long as you can.

Post: #30

I recently got over a lot of my remaining approach anxiety..

How?

I approached 10-15 girls a day for 10 days straight.

Simple as that. That is what I recommend.

I do mostly Krauser style direct-indirect.

(09-01-2013 01:18 PM)Menace Wrote:  Use positive momentum

This is huge!!!

AA is just like a muscle. It will atrophy if you stop working it.

We must do work everyday. When you create some momentum, use it to continue approaching daily. Don't let the momentum die down.

"A few approaches a day keeps the anxiety away"

Post: #31

(09-01-2013 01:12 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 03:43 PM)Dusty Wrote:  This topic fascinates me. I'm writing a book about conquering approach anxiety. I don't want to reveal too much yet, but I developed an easy to follow program using empirically tested techniques from the field of psychology.

I am also fascinated by this and I have also thought about writing a book about it. Maybe, one day I will.

It would probably be more of a "guide" as I think it would only take about 10-20 pages to explain it.

I can't wait to read your thoughts on the subject..

Thanks. I have about 4 solid chapters written. I'm not sure how much more I need to write. It could end up being a short book. Less than 100 pages.

I use REBT. Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy. As part of the B in REBT, I also use exposure therapy.

I wrote I think a good analogy in the book. I was watching pigeons in the city I live in. All of them were trying to get bread, but were skittish as hell. Any sudden noise or sound would frighten them, and they fled. They had anxiety. The sudden noise or movement could be a person coughing or a leaf blowing around. Harmless stuff. But through evolution, the bird's brain says "better safe than sorry." Be scared of everything because you never know what will do you in. It works for their survival. The bird doesn't have the cognitive ability to think through whether a cough or leaf can really hurt it or not. Being scare of coughs or leafs seems irrational, but a bird can't use logic to discern real threats from fake ones, so for them it's a way for them to survive.

Likewise, we humans have the same type of fears in our lizard brains. 10,000 years ago, it was probably better for our survival for us to be overly vigilant and scared of shit that might not be a real threat to us but "better safe than sorry." Back then approaching a stranger might lead to your death, so fear it and avoid it.

But unlike the birds, we have the cognitive ability to override our instincts with facts and logic. Our instincts tell us to fear approaching this girl, but really what can she do to us? Is a 110 lbs girl going to kick your ass (if so forget approaching, get to the gym!). At worst she might crinkle her nose at you and walk away. Big deal. You don't lose any limbs, you don't die, you don't get cancer. When you fear approaching, you are like the bird that avoids getting the food it wants because of a leaf blowing around, except you fear getting the pussy you want because she might crinkle her nose. But the bird doesn't have the thinking ability say "this is silly, it's only a leaf." But you do have the cognitive ability to say "this is silly, if she crinkles her nose and walks away, I'll just move on to the next one and no harm will be done to me."

So my book teaches you to approach girls is stages that you can handle (eg, early on you might just say "hello"), break down what you fear and then dispute those fears using facts and logic, then move on to more challenging stages of the approach (by the end you are doing full blown approaches and asking for the digits). This "stages" approach is a form or exposure therapy. If a kid is afraid of rabbits, you don't just throw a rabbit on its lap, the kid will freak. You let the kid see a live rabbit from a safe distance. Then the next time you let the kid pet the rabbit while an adult holds the rabbit securely. Small steps until the kid feels no fear picking up the rabbit and holding and petting it.

If you ask a shy guy who never approached before to walk up to an 8 and have a 20 minute conversation and get her digits, he's going to freak. My program has him ramp up at what ever speed he can handle.

The cornerstone of my approach program though is "unconditional self-esteem." I think the biggest fear that guys have about approaching is an ego threat. They will feel bad about themselves if a girl rejects them. I teach you how to never let anyone but you define your worth, and you always accept yourself and feel worthwhile, whatever the conditions in your life (like feeling ok about yourself even after being rejected by a girl). Never give any girl the power to define YOU! You define yourself.

Post: #32

@Dusty very interesting, if you can deliver what you promise it will be an amazing book.

I've found a very interesting article about social anxiety treatment methods including gradual exposure, cognitive therapy. Might be a bit dated (2003) but still very useful:
http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/9/4/258.full

Post: #33

Thanks surskis. You're link looks interesting. I'll take a closer look when I have time.

Yes, REBT was the original form of cognitive therapy. Albert Ellis invented it in the 1950s. Some guys at the University of Pennsylvania Medical School took it into a different direction in the 1960s, and now that's the most used form of therapy today. But I prefer Ellis' original methods better, which he improved on until his death in 2007.

Ellis was a crazy genius, ladies man, and alpha as fuck. He actually invented REBT to conquer his approach anxiety. This is from an interview with him:

Quote: Albert Ellis: I was scared shitless of approaching women. I flirted with them in Bronx Botanical Garden near my home, but I never approached them, made up all kinds of excuses.

So I gave myself a brilliant homework assignment at the age of 19 when I was off from college, to go to Bronx Botanical Garden every day that month, and whenever I saw a woman sitting alone on a park bench, I would sit immediately next to her - not in her lap - which I wouldn't dare do before, and give myself one lousy minute to talk to her. If I die, I die, screw it so I die. And I did that. I found 130 women sitting alone that month on the park bench. I sat next to all of them, whereupon 30 got up and walked away, but that left me an even sample of 100 good for research purposes. I spoke to the whole hundred for the first time in my life about the birds and the bees, the flowers, their reading.

But I prepared myself philosophically, even then, by seeing that nobody took out a stiletto and cut my balls off, nobody vomited and ran away, nobody called the cops. I had 100 pleasant conversations and with the second 100 I got good and made a few dates.

I used techniques I later developed into Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy on myself by thinking philosophically and differently. Nothing is awful or terrible, it's just a pain in the ass. That's all it is.

There's no horror in being rejected. I forced myself uncomfortably to do what I was afraid of, the opposite of what phobics' do, because whenever they're afraid of innocent things, they beat it the hell out of there and then never get over their fears.

I think my book will be amazing, but I'm biased . It won't be for everyone, because it requires work, effort, and pushing out of your comfort zone. It will be the P90X of game. No quick and easy solution, just work and effort and then results!

Post: #34

(09-01-2013 01:22 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I recently got over a lot of my remaining approach anxiety..

How?

I approached 10-15 girls a day for 10 days straight.

Simple as that. That is what I recommend.

I do mostly Krauser style direct-indirect.

(09-01-2013 01:18 PM)Menace Wrote:  Use positive momentum

This is huge!!!

AA is just like a muscle. It will atrophy if you stop working it.

We must do work everyday. When you create some momentum, use it to continue approaching daily. Don't let the momentum die down.

"A few approaches a day keeps the anxiety away"

GIO - I do not mean to be a nay sayer, but one would really have to dedicate a lot of time to this approach system in order to approach 10-15 girls per day for 10 days straight. I would have to be on vacation or something or maybe I could do 10-15 approaches per day on a weekend.. but even following through with the approach takes a certain amount of time commitment and energy and focus... No?

It may take me a whole day to prepare for a date that is a result of a "successful" approach, and i have other things that I am juggling in life, too. People in USA work 80 hours a week, frequently, .. so, when to do this?

Maybe simpler approaches may not take as much time as something more involved, and I may want to try out your system, first to see how it plays out for me.

Post: #35

(09-05-2013 05:52 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  GIO - I do not mean to be a nay sayer, but one would really have to dedicate a lot of time to this approach system in order to approach 10-15 girls per day for 10 days straight.

You are not being a "nay sayer", you are just asking a simple and very valid question..

Of course it takes time, energy, and focus. How much time, energy, and focus depends on the work rate, mind state, aggression and approach efficiency of the individual.

To approach 10-15 girls, it takes me about 2-3 hours. (Multiple forum members have witnessed me do this.) Frankly, it feels rather effortless, but, I admit for the first year or 2, it felt a bit more labourious.

The only energy required is the energy it takes me to walk around. I do not have to channel any extra focus because I walk around in a focused mind state.

Talking to young, pretty girls can actually be very energizing and invigorating. We are not talking about digging ditches, we are talking about chatting to cute girls. It is a pleasure, not a burden.

The emotional weight and cost of this will vary by individual.

I am light hearted so I do not feel a heavy weight from this process.

Other men, with a more heavy hearted attitude may feel more emotional fatigue from doing this.

Of course, I am on a large university campus surronded by thousands of cute girls. I do not waste time. I work as efficiently as possible. I am extremely agressive. I am extremely focused.

(09-05-2013 05:52 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  People in USA work 80 hours a week, frequently, .. so, when to do this?

Working 80 hours a week!!!

Fuck!!! That sounds like slavery to me!

If you are working 16 hours per day and you sleep 8 hours -- Then you literally don't have time to do anything else!

Basically, you don't have time to use my type of approach.

Try online? Maybe get in a few approches on your lunch break?

Your biggest enemy is a lack of time.

I know guys who work as much as you. They go hard on Friday amd Saturday night. They don't have time to use my method.

Post: #36

(09-05-2013 03:32 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 05:52 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  People in USA work 80 hours a week, frequently, .. so, when to do this?

Working 80 hours a week!!!

Fuck!!! That sounds like slavery to me!

If you are working 16 hours per day and you sleep 8 hours -- Then you literally don't have time to do anything else!

Basically, you don't have time to use my type of approach.

Try online? Maybe get in a few approches on your lunch break?

Your biggest enemy is a lack of time.

I know guys who work as much as you. They go hard on Friday amd Saturday night. They don't have time to use my method.

GIO - currently... my work situation is in flux, and currently, i am not working 80 hours a week... Nonetheless, in the recent past, i had so many work-related obligations that were requiring many 80hrs per week weeks, and that was the reason that I presented that situation to you b/c this problem may arise again for me - or maybe for others. Also, a lot of people that i know spend a lot of time working (i'm not sure whether work will frequently add up to 80 hours a week b/c those would probably be the more extreme weeks).

Sometimes, there could be a question of efficiency in work in order to get work-related tasks done in a shorter period of time in order to be able to fit in time for approaching.

I am not always clear about how to accomplish that kind of efficiency in accomplishing my various work-related obligations, and there may be a need to drop some of the obligations (which i am working on dropping some), when having various demands on my time....

Probably, as well, it also helps with gaming to have work cleared from one's plate and then practice will make a guy better at approaching.

Thanks for you further explanation about how you have developed your approaches to be able to accomplish that many per day.

Post: #37

(09-05-2013 07:22 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Thanks for you further explanation about how you have developed your approaches to be able to accomplish that many per day.

Your welcome. It was interesting to read about how much people work and how that limits their social interactions.

I work a lot less then you so I have more free time. We all have different lifestyles, goals, priorities, and definitions of success.

You need energy efficient forms of gaming like online, or match-making service, etc. Day game does require time and energy as you said. All you can do is try to work less and socialize more.

Other then that the only thing I will add is this...

When you see a girl you like, don't let her go by without saying hello, or at least telling her that she looks nice.

Post: #38

(08-24-2013 06:05 PM)Dusty Wrote:  I brainstormed a list of the main (irrational) beliefs that cause Approach Anxiety. Let me know if there are others:

1. I believe rejection is a really big a deal.
2. I fear that I might shock or surprise her.
3. I fear I am disturbing her or bothering her.
4. I fear not having anything to say and then looking stupid.
5. I fear a rejection might reveal some unbearable truth about me unbeknownst until now.
6. I fear that other people might witness me doing an approach and judge me.
7. I prefer assuming a girl is attracted to me over actually seeing if she is or not and making a real connection.
8. Approaching women is somehow inappropriate.
9. I fear she might make a scene. She might yell and scream or say bad things about me.
10. If she rejects me bad, I fear I will be in a shitty mood for days or weeks.
11. She might not be alone. Her boyfriend might come around the corner and catch me trying to pick up his girlfriend.
12. She probably already has a boyfriend.
13. Other avoidant behaviors with thoughts like: I’m not sure I am interested enough in her, she looks too bitchy, etc.

After you do a few approaches, you mostly put the lie to these beliefs, and mostly get over AA.

Great post. To me,1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 11 and 12 creep into my head.

Post: #39

(09-06-2013 09:56 PM)Hoopster Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 06:05 PM)Dusty Wrote:  I brainstormed a list of the main (irrational) beliefs that cause Approach Anxiety. Let me know if there are others:

1. I believe rejection is a really big a deal.
2. I fear that I might shock or surprise her.
3. I fear I am disturbing her or bothering her.
4. I fear not having anything to say and then looking stupid.
5. I fear a rejection might reveal some unbearable truth about me unbeknownst until now.
6. I fear that other people might witness me doing an approach and judge me.
7. I prefer assuming a girl is attracted to me over actually seeing if she is or not and making a real connection.
8. Approaching women is somehow inappropriate.
9. I fear she might make a scene. She might yell and scream or say bad things about me.
10. If she rejects me bad, I fear I will be in a shitty mood for days or weeks.
11. She might not be alone. Her boyfriend might come around the corner and catch me trying to pick up his girlfriend.
12. She probably already has a boyfriend.
13. Other avoidant behaviors with thoughts like: I’m not sure I am interested enough in her, she looks too bitchy, etc.

After you do a few approaches, you mostly put the lie to these beliefs, and mostly get over AA.

Great post. To me,1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 11 and 12 creep into my head.

Thanks Hoopster. Are these all the thoughts that cause you approach anxiety, or are there additional ones that aren't on the list?

Can you give a specific example of a time you experienced approach anxiety, and what specific thoughts went through your head that caused your fear/anxiety?

Post: #40

One that I would add: The fear that she is somehow connected to my social circle or that hitting on her will somehow come back to haunt me

Post: #41

(09-07-2013 04:50 PM)Hoopster Wrote:  One that I would add: The fear that she is somehow connected to my social circle or that hitting on her will somehow come back to haunt me

In other words, you might be "outed" as a heterosexual .

No, that's a good one. I'm writing a book and I have that list in it, and I might add your item above to it. Thanks

Post: #42

heres another major one that has fucked with me ever since highschool:

"This girl is so hot and way out of my league and I am not worthy of her anyway. Why would a girl like her even give her number to a/an (insert self conscious trait) guy like me."

Im pretty fat like 27% bf and these kind of thoughts still effect me to date. The way I overcome it is I think of some positive traits about me.

"why shouldnt she like me im 6'3"" or "why shouldnt she like me Im far more intelligent than this broad." etc.

Post: #43

(11-16-2013 11:41 AM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  heres another major one that has fucked with me ever since highschool:

"This girl is so hot and way out of my league and I am not worthy of her anyway. Why would a girl like her even give her number to a/an (insert self conscious trait) guy like me."

Im pretty fat like 27% bf and these kind of thoughts still effect me to date. The way I overcome it is I think of some positive traits about me.

"why shouldnt she like me im 6'3"" or "why shouldnt she like me Im far more intelligent than this broad." etc.

Jazzman:

I think that you make a very good point, here, and let's say that we have some kind of physical state that we cannot hide - either we are ugly or we are overweight (which is frequently frowned upon). It seems that we then have to find an angle for that trait, and maybe revolve in circles in which that trait is accepted or even a positive or at least NOT a negative. We also may have to adjust our standards based on the reality of how that trait is perceived.

So, for example, a fat guy or otherwise physically less attractive guy, may want to get involved in book clubs or music club or bird watching or some activity in which appearance may NOT be as highly rated. Yet the guy may also need to figure out, whether the chosen activity is going to also have a certain poole of the kind of girl that he is targeting.

Although even though fatness may be a trait, sometimes, it can be modified more than other things such as color of skin or potentially having some physically ugly face.

Also, we cannot forget that improving one's game becomes more important, when a guy is lacking in some socially desired characteristics, whether lacking in physical beauty or money or age.

Post: #44

Dusty had a great post earlier and if you have any of those beliefs listed and they are sunk in it's obviously going to affect you. My only major one was believing that it is not socially appropriate/normal/accepted etc to approach women. I never had any fear of rejection nor had any worries about what to say thankfully.

It also helps to remind yourself that it will take some time to get good. If cold approaching and gaming attractive women were easy every beta would be balls deep in fine pussy.

Post: #45

Posted this over at CMQ's blog, but I thought it was relevant to share here:

I think all competent men think they may actually not be so good, even frauds of a kind. It comes with the territory of being a leader (out in front of followers). From the point of view of keeping oneself honest, this kind of anxiety serves a purpose: it can give you strength in your efforts of striving to be better, as opposed to wishing the game was easier. I find the majority of my approach anxiety stems from the realization I'm alone in this approach. Recognizing this helps me manage the fear of the approach.

But, there are other kinds of anxiety that just create friction in the gears, even a persistent kind of punishment system: most commonly internalized in the form of terminal approach anxiety or oneitis.

DO NOT let this kind of anxiety get woven into your character and become a talisman for why you can’t get laid. Understanding the difference + applying the law of abundance might help take your game to the next level.

Post: #46

I saw a video once where it was like jumping into a pool for the first time.
The first time, you're terrified. You might not even make it into the pool
But if you can bring yourself to jump in, like ripping a bandage off quickly, the pain goes away quickly
The second time you jump into the pool, it will still be a bit scary, but not as bad as the first time.
By the time you do it the 3rd or 4th time, after it will start to get fun.
The only problem is, when you leave the pool for the day and start swimming again tomorrow, you'll have to start from square one. But if you swim everyday, its just something you expect and know that you need to dive in the first couple of times before it gets fun.

I don't think AA ever fully goes away, just like jumping into a cold pool for the first time we all know sucks, even though we've all done that before. Maybe I just haven't done enough approaches because I know some forum members have vanquished AA completely.

The analogy with the number of approaches works too; I find the first few approaches are tough, and its only after the 4th or 5th that I start to loosen up and start having fun. My only problem is getting over that hump.

Should I not have posted this? It will just bring this thread back to the top and there are already several approach anxiety threads. Or maybe we could lock some approach anxiety threads and just have one main one.

Post: #47

Practice makes perfect. Approach like a madman.

Post: #48

I actually tried the good looking loser progam but I agree with gio that its a little slow paced and 'safe'.

I can see this working for someone with severe social anxiety but for example in my situation i had been using skills from day bang and being indirect.

After 2 weeks I didnt feel it giving me that rush of approach anxiety so I had to skip to week 6 which pretty much is going direct. Now for me this is where I struggle with direct but I know that if its uncofortable I have to do it.

The program is good and makes sense but I cant see myself going through everyday.

Post: #49

GLL's problem is that it does not deal with sexual shame and escalating. I just started another thread to discuss it. Approaches are easy. Seriously how can it be hard to just chat up a stranger? Makes you feel good and social too.

If you are approaching a girl to ask about time, its like you are trying to learn how to shoot an assault rifle by playing video game. IMO the main cause of AA is sexual shame. Tons of tough guys and social guys I know cant open their trap to close the deal with a girl. Indirect approaches for newbs dont address that.

Anyway guys, if you want to JUST work on approaching AND learn something useful, I highly recommend taking dance classes. Salsa, tango, bachata, whatever, just anything that can set you apart from that dirty grinding in clubs. In dance classes not only you learn some really useful skills, you are also in a perfect venue with lots of fit and pretty girl. Whats more, it forces you to approach and physically escalate with girls (else you are not dancing)

I used to be that guy leaning against the wall. Since I learned salsa and bachata its like a reaction: I see a girl idle and I have 3 seconds to approach her. Now thanks to that Im approaching and dancing with up to 20 girls a day. Ofc, closing is another thing....

Post: #50

I believe approach fear comes by thinking too much of the outcome.think of an aproach as socializing not asking for sex.also read approach motivational quotes.My favorite is by
Roosh in day bang ->one day you will die.. just go up to her and say the words.