Post: #151

If that's the law, then so be it, but I think if it's that lenient, something needs to be done. This isn't the wild fucking west where people should be able to pull out a gun and blow your head off because you kicked their ass. Now if you brandished the weapon to an attacker and threatened to shoot them and they still came at you, then do what you gotta do. But to shoot somebody with no warning during a fist fight is just fucking wrong and an irresponsible use of firearms.

Both Zimmerman and Martin were assholes and idiots. Both played a role in this fight. Neither was an innocent victim. Zimmerman got caught up in the heat of the moment and went WAY too far. He shouldn't be facing 25 to life, but a minimum of 5 years in protected custody sounds right to me. Hell, he'll probably be safer in there than he will on the street. After 5 years few people will even remember him.

Post: #152

The "stand-your-ground" laws have tripled the number of self-defense claims in Florida, so it is having an effect.

If you are in a state that has lenient self-defense laws and lenient concealed carry laws (Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc) it is probably smart to assume that someone could be armed, so maybe the good thing about the Zimmerman case is that it highlights the drawbacks of having a "Wild West" culture with respect to guns.

Post: #153

Does anyone think that the reason Zimmerman followed Trayvon was because he wanted to make "Lean"?

Maybe Zimmerman was jacking Trayvon for his Skittles!




---

Side note:

Why does everyone think Trayvon was trying to make "Lean"?

Post: #154

(07-11-2013 06:37 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Does anyone think that the reason Zimmerman followed Trayvon was because he wanted to make "Lean"?

Maybe Zimmerman was jacking Trayvon for his Skittles!




---

Side note:

Why does everyone think Trayvon was trying to make "Lean"?

All kidding aside, to make lean you need sprite, jolly ranchers, and codeine cough syrup:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lean

Post: #155

I know.

So why do so many people on here think he was trying to make "Lean"?

Post: #156

(07-11-2013 06:52 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  I know.

So why do so many people on here think he was trying to make "Lean"?

Not sure, but maybe they didn't know what lean was?

Post: #157

That comment about the lean had me laughing harder than anything else this whole week.

Post: #158

Little saint Trayvon referenced lean in his facebook posts

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012...-violence/

Post: #159

This is a slam dunk victory for the defense (even on manslaughter), unless the women on the jury feel as some do here, that Zman should be punished for his role in this incident regardless of whether the prosecution has proven Zman's guilt of any charged crime beyond a reasonable doubt. And if juries do feel that they are entitled to punish even without the requisite evidenciary requirement, then we had all better hope we are never a defendant in a criminal case.

State’s Closing Argument: Two Hours of Raising Doubt

Post: #160

(07-11-2013 07:06 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  Little saint Trayvon referenced lean in his facebook posts

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012...-violence/

The conservative right-wing verdict is that Martin was just another young black thug(or wannabe) thus he deserved to die. Whether Zimmerman used excessive force beyond the limits of the law is irrelevant. He shot and killed a ghetto black kid and did the world a favor. That is the conservative position on this.

Of course if it was a black kid that pulled out a gun and shot their son in the heat of a fist fight they'd feel quite the opposite.

Post: #161

(07-11-2013 07:06 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  Little saint Trayvon referenced lean in his facebook posts

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012...-violence/

Um, I don't think you want to go there given that Zimmerman had enough prescription drugs flowing through his system that night to cause some mental issues. Just a thought.

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-pres...von-martin

Quote:Many who have been following the Trayvon Martin case are aware that marijuana was found in Trayvon Martin‘s system on the night that he was killed. It is not common knowledge, however, that the level was well below what medical studies show cause “performance impairment.” The same can not be said for George Zimmerman, the man who shot the teenager. Zimmerman was on various prescription drugs with known, violent side effects while acting as the neighborhood watch captain and on the night Martin died.

MSNBC.com reports that, according to the paramedic incident report, Trayvon Martin's shooter was on the prescription drug Temazepam which is known to cause insomnia and anxiety. Other side effects not mentioned in the MSNBC.com report are “aggressiveness,” “hallucinations,” and other serious symptoms. The U.S. National Library of Medicine cautions that, after taking Temazepam, patients should not be walking around trying to watch anything or anyone and that, if they do not sleep for at least 7-8 hours after taking the drug, they may experience memory loss.

Unless your opinion is that posting about drugs on betabook is worse than actually being stoned on them, then bringing them up in context of the Zimmerman-Martin fiasco is a bad idea.

Also, this whole trial pissed me the fuck off. back when they announced it there was a fucking military coup in Egypt but all the damn networks just kept playing clips from the trial. Fuck them. Show something important mainstream news.

Post: #162

(07-11-2013 08:18 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-11-2013 07:06 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  Little saint Trayvon referenced lean in his facebook posts

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012...-violence/

The conservative right-wing verdict is that Martin was just another young black thug(or wannabe) thus he deserved to die. Whether Zimmerman used excessive force beyond the limits of the law is irrelevant. He shot and killed a ghetto black kid and did the world a favor. That is the conservative position on this.

Of course if it was a black kid that pulled out a gun and shot their son in the heat of a fist fight they'd feel quite the opposite.

I hate to break the news to you and ruin your night but the overwhelming majority of the time it is the black kid doing the shooting, whether the victim is white, black or hispanic, or asian. It happens all the time. Heck, there were 60-70 shootings in Chicago over 4th of July weekend alone. How many of those were done by whites? And why arent the blabbering opportunitists like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson there riling up the crowd?

Post: #163

(07-11-2013 09:31 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  I hate to break the news to you and ruin your night but the overwhelming majority of the time it is the black kid doing the shooting, whether the victim is white, black or hispanic, or asian. It happens all the time. Heck, there were 60-70 shootings in Chicago over 4th of July weekend alone. How many of those were done by whites? And why arent the blabbering opportunitists like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson there riling up the crowd?

Because the life of a black person only has value to the race baiters when the killer is white. Sharpton and Jackson don't rake in money from self-flagellating white liberals when a black person kills another black person.

Post: #164

(07-11-2013 09:31 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  I hate to break the news to you and ruin your night but the overwhelming majority of the time it is the black kid doing the shooting, whether the victim is white, black or hispanic, or asian. It happens all the time. Heck, there were 60-70 shootings in Chicago over 4th of July weekend alone. How many of those were done by whites? And why arent the blabbering opportunitists like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson there riling up the crowd?

I don’t understand why so many people here think black people are totally cool with black gang members killing other blacks and/or non-blacks.

It doesn’t really matter what Sharpton and Jackson have to say about it, though these and other ethnic/religious group leaders of all backgrounds are usually hypocrites. Every ethnic/religious group tends to focus first on the attacks against themselves by “outsiders”, and whites are no exception. The group leaders aren’t there to make sure everyone is being treated equally, but to fight specifically for their own group interests.

I brought this up before in threads where everyone was griping about Muslim and black violence in Europe when the reality is that the most violent places in Europe are homogenously white-European, with few Muslim or black minorities, though we’re not having threads expressing similar outrage at this violence.

That doesn’t mean a white person can’t voice his outrage over an attack by Muslim or black minorities just because he hasn’t done the same for white-on-white violence across Europe.

I guess you could say it’s a similar deal in which Americans will make a bigger deal out of terrorist attacks by Muslims than the far bigger problem of homicide within their own country by members of all ethnic groups, yet they continue to tell themselves they’re all little angels; or conversely with Muslims complaining about Western warmongers when they aren’t expressing similar outrage toward Islamists who kill their own people, yet they want to completely victimize themselves as a group.

Post: #165

Why do people think Zimmerman could have just brandished the gun and Trayvon Martin would get lost? Trayvon is straddling him and pounding him, George obviously would have thought that Trayvon would have went to take possession of the gun himself

Post: #166

(07-11-2013 05:03 PM)Easy E Wrote:  The "stand-your-ground" laws have tripled the number of self-defense claims in Florida, so it is having an effect.

If you are in a state that has lenient self-defense laws and lenient concealed carry laws (Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc) it is probably smart to assume that someone could be armed, so maybe the good thing about the Zimmerman case is that it highlights the drawbacks of having a "Wild West" culture with respect to guns.

I am familiar with this new law. It basically gives anyone the right too shoot someone if they feel threatened or translated the right to shoot any black males you think are "suspicious".
So if I was wearing my jordan's and a hoodie, I would be in danger in Florida. Even if I were there on holiday to visit my man Moma.
God bless Amerikkka!

Post: #167

(07-11-2013 11:47 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(07-11-2013 05:03 PM)Easy E Wrote:  The "stand-your-ground" laws have tripled the number of self-defense claims in Florida, so it is having an effect.

...

I am familiar with this new law. It basically gives anyone the right too shoot someone if they feel threatened or translated the right to shoot any black males you think are "suspicious".
So if I was wearing my jordan's and a hoodie, I would be in danger in Florida. Even if I were there on holiday to visit my man Moma.
God bless Amerikkka!

I'm pretty sure the "Stand Your Ground" law doesn't have any bias towards race. Also, way to be edgy with how you spelled "America" despite the fact that it still guarantees one of the highest standards of living in the world.

But, like I said before, I think Zimmerman should have a manslaughter charge with perhaps 5 years in prison. This case isn't even that important in the grand scheme of things. Somebody above already noted how there was a military coup in Egypt yet this court case is somehow more important. Priorities, the media needs to set them.

Post: #168

(07-12-2013 12:11 AM)Icepasian Wrote:  This case isn't even that important in the grand scheme of things. Somebody above already noted how there was a military coup in Egypt yet this court case is somehow more important. Priorities, the media needs to set them.

The turmoil in Egypt is definitely a bigger deal on a worldwide scale, but many would argue that we would be best off intervening less in other nations’ affairs.

The Zimmerman case does have its importance.

Part of living in a just and civilized society means defending the rights of people you may not necessarily like.

If there’s a wannabe-gangster getting shot by a white-knighting wannabe-cop and there isn’t a legitimate trial to determine whether the shooting constituted second-degree murder, manslaughter, or self-defense, that’s a threat to everyone’s safety and liberty.

Post: #169

(07-11-2013 12:10 PM)scorpion Wrote:  This case has been sensationalized to fit the narrative of "white man shoots innocent black man because he's racist". Nevermind the fact that Zimmerman is hispanic, or that Trayvon Martin initiated a physical confrontation with him. This story is media-driven to promote outrage in the black community. It's as simple as that.

The race baiters in the black community and the media jumped on this story from the beginning. It's an absolute disgrace that charlatans like Al Sharpton continue to put in for this kind of nonsense, while remaining absolutely silent about the fact that black men continue to murder each other in the streets by the thousands.

Where is the popular black outrage over black-on-black crime? Why don't black people care if a black person is killed by another black? It happens every day in cities like Detroit, Chicago and New Orleans. Why isn't Al Sharpton marching in the streets?

The reason is that it doesn't fit the narrative of "racism" if a black man kills another black man. It's simple butchery, and blacks would rather turn their heads than confront the fact that a minority of their young men are behaving like out of control savages. The fact that the black community cannot bring itself to confront and condemn the violence perpetrated by young, black men does more to promote racial hatred and animus against blacks than anything whites could do.

Furthermore, there is the issue of black-on-white crime. Blacks routinely victimize whites, but race is never considered an issue, and these stories are routinely buried in the press, even when they are outrageous and shocking. Consider:

http://www.northescambia.com/2013/04/sta...with-video

Quote:Deputies say an autopsy shows McCormick was hit 40 times with a hammer, lead pipe and crow bar. She was still alive when her bed sheets were set on fire, according to the State Fire Marshal’s Office. They were caught on video (see below) headed to and away from the area of the apartment.

Williams reportedly told investigators that he hated white people, and that was a partial reason for the crime.

Try to imagine the races were reversed, here, and a group of white men had tortured a black woman and set her on fire, then explicitly told investigators it was because she was black. There would be wall-to-wall national media coverage for weeks.

Or anyone remember this case?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_...her_Newsom

Quote:According to the testimony of the Knox County Acting Medical Examiner Dr. Darinka Mileusnic-Polchan at the subsequent trial of Eric Boyd, Newsom was repeatedly sodomized with an object and then blindfolded, gagged, arms and feet bound and his head covered. Barefoot, he was dragged outside the house to a set of nearby railroad tracks. He was sexually mutilated, shot in the back of his head, neck and back and his body was then set on fire.

According to the testimony of the medical examiner, Channon's death came after hours of torture, having suffered injuries to her vagina, anus and mouth. She was raped with an unidentified object and beaten in the head. It was also reported that her body was scrubbed with bleach which was also poured down her throat, in an attempt by her attackers to remove DNA evidence, while Channon was still alive. She was then bound with curtains and strips of bedding, her face covered with a bin liner and her body stashed within five large bin bags, before being placed inside a residential waste disposal unit and covered with sheets. The medical examiner said there was evidence that Channon slowly suffocated to death.

Or how about this case, when two black teenagers shot a white baby in the face right in front of its mother, for no apparent reason?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed

Again, imagine the media outrage if the races were reversed.

Here's a story about a black man beating a white 6 year old to death because he said the kid was "racist". You can't even make this up:





The reality is that blacks victimize whites and other blacks far, far more often than whites victimize blacks. However, there is a deliberate effort by the media to downplay the amount of crime committed by blacks:

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/top-s...-coverage/

Quote:When initial reports about a gang rape in Cleveland, Texas, became public earlier this month, there was hardly any mention of the victim’s or suspects’ race — mainly because reporters covering the story didn’t think it was relevant.

The creator of the show "COPS" admits flat out that he artificially minimizes the number of black criminals he features on his program in order not to "contribute to negative stereotypes".





Blacks have jumped all over the Zimmerman/Martin case for one simple reason: it's extremely rare for a white/hispanic person to kill an innocent black person in cold blood. This is about as close as they can get: a "white hispanic" guy playing cop confronts a black wannabe-gangster who starts a fight with him and ends up getting shot. Both of them idiots. But suddenly it's a story about race? It's ridiculous.

If blacks want to do something about racism, the best thing they can do is address the problem of delinquency among young, black males, because they are the ones committing the violent crimes that incite racial animus against all blacks in general.

Let me let you in on a little secret, most young Black males aren't criminals and aren't particularly interested in killing or maiming White males. Shocking, I know. Also, Most of victims of Black on Black violence are actually among goons themselves. Of course once in a while an innocent gets poped but as far as good hard working god fearing Black folk are concerned they are only responsible for what their own children are doing. Also, How am I responsible or have to carry some type of burden for some crazy shit some negro in cali did? I never even been to Cali. In the words of Rachel Jeantel "That's retarded sir"

But I digress, Nice reframing and deflecting !!!

Blacks can be against Black on Black crime and against co-singing what Z did. Z fucked up and all the ranting about Black on Black crime, the media, Al sharpton, reversed racism, Blacks low IQs, doesn't change the fact that:

1. Trayvon was not committing any crimes.
2. Was not a trespasser.
3. He was unarmed.
4. Z is not a police officer nor he identified himself as such.
5. Was told not to follow.
6. It was dark.
7. Z was agitated and angry when he approached Trayvon.
8. Trayvon is dead.

Since you like hypotheticals so much , be honest with yourself for one minute and be the logical thinker you sound like you are.

You are teenager in a strange neighborhood and is dark. A Black male exits his car and starts chasing you and looks pissed. As far as you can tell he's not a cop.

Assuming you don't get on your knees and beg for your life and you decide to stand your ground because you believe at a minimum that he's going to take your butt hole(hey Trayvon did say "creepy" which has a sexual connectation to it).

He shoots you dead and then he claims self defense. Don't you think that at a minimum he should have been arrested? Points 1-8 were known to the detectives the day all this went down.

Z should have been arrested at the scene, charged with manslaughter and gotten his day in court. Chances are he would have gotten probation an possibly even acquitted. Nobody would have really cared. It would have just been a blip on the crime blotter. The fact that it took protest, media outcry and Obama himself to get the ball rolling means Z is going to have a long interesting life.

Post: #170

(07-12-2013 01:27 AM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  Let me let you in on a little secret, most young Black males aren't criminals and aren't particularly interested in killing or maiming White males. Shocking, I know. Also, Most of victims of Black on Black violence are actually among goons themselves. Of course once in a while an innocent gets poped but as far as good hard working god fearing Black folk are concerned they are only responsible for what their own children are doing. Also, How am I responsible or have to carry some type of burden for some crazy shit some negro in cali did? I never even been to Cali. In the words of Rachel Jeantel "That's retarded sir"

But I digress, Nice reframing and deflecting !!!

Blacks can be against Black on Black crime and against co-singing what Z did. Z fucked up and all the ranting about Black on Black crime, the media, Al sharpton, reversed racism, Blacks low IQs, doesn't change the fact that:

1. Trayvon was not committing any crimes.
2. Was not a trespasser.
3. He was unarmed.
4. Z is not a police officer nor he identified himself as such.
5. Was told not to follow.
6. It was dark.
7. Z was agitated and angry when he approached Trayvon.
8. Trayvon is dead.

Since you like hypotheticals so much , be honest with yourself for one minute and be the logical thinker you sound like you are.

You are teenager in a strange neighborhood and is dark. A Black male exits his car and starts chasing you and looks pissed. As far as you can tell he's not a cop.

Assuming you don't get on your knees and beg for your life and you decide to stand your ground because you believe at a minimum that he's going to take your butt hole(hey Trayvon did say "creepy" which has a sexual connectation to it).

He shoots you dead and then he claims self defense. Don't you think that at a minimum he should have been arrested? Points 1-8 were known to the detectives the day all this went down.

Z should have been arrested at the scene, charged with manslaughter and gotten his day in court. Chances are he would have gotten probation an possibly even acquitted. Nobody would have really cared. It would have just been a blip on the crime blotter. The fact that it took protest, media outcry and Obama himself to get the ball rolling means Z is going to have a long interesting life.

You need to read what the "stand your ground" law says. He wasn't arrested because he defended himself under Florida law. Again, this is Florida (aka "The Dirty South"). Not New York. Not California. This happened in Florida. I have read cases where gang members are now claiming the "stand your ground" law in their defense because they had to shoot or their enemy would shoot them. There are close to one million people (I think) with a concealed carry permit in Florida.

Edit: I was close.

There are 887,000 people with valid carry permits in FL (more than any other state):

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statem...cott-says/

Moral of the story: If you are heading to Florida, pack some heat.

Post: #171

(07-11-2013 12:36 PM)Atilla Wrote:  

(07-11-2013 12:01 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-11-2013 11:38 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Aside from that, there are videos of Travon actually in real fights. Quite a bit different than just training...

Links?

As far as I know, there aren't any released videos of Martin actually fighting. He didn't have a record like Zimmerman of being reported to the police on multiple, separate occasions for violence.

All that happened was Martin recorded a video on his cell phone of two homeless men getting into a fight, and there’s a photo of Martin apparently acting as referee.

I guess that proves Zimmerman was right to shoot him.

Go back and read my post before you put words in my mouth.

I wasn't attacking Travon's character or insinuating he got what he deserved. I was only confronting another poster's assertion that Zimmerman should have been able to easily beat Travon up because he was currently training in martial arts.

After G asked for links I also retracted my statement about the videos and admitted that it turned out I was talking out of my ass.

If you go back further in this thread you can see I'm actually not arguing for either side of this case. I only argued for some rational perspective. Nothing more.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #172

Quote:but a minimum of 5 years in protected custody sounds right to me.

@Speakeasy Do you really think this is just for killing a Minor?
People are very passionate and on polar opposites of this issue..This black lady today ask (watching the cnn in the lobby)"What Zimmerman punishment should be" I said 10-20 years...He's at lease responsible for involuntary manslaughter..Why majority of society scrutinize Martin as menace and Justin Bieber as harmless teenager when some of their antics are the same.

Post: #173

(07-12-2013 02:13 AM)urbannomad Wrote:  

Quote:but a minimum of 5 years in protected custody sounds right to me.

@Speakeasy Do you really think this is just for killing a Minor?
People are very passionate and on polar opposites of this issue..This black lady today ask (watching the cnn in the lobby)"What Zimmerman punishment should be" I said 10-20 years...He's at lease responsible for involuntary manslaughter..Why majority of society scrutinize Martin as menace and Justin Bieber as harmless teenager when some of their antics are the same.

This looks like self-defense to me, so I wouldn't be surprised if the jury acquits him on 2nd degree murder and manslaughter.

Post: #174

(07-12-2013 02:12 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(07-11-2013 12:36 PM)Atilla Wrote:  

(07-11-2013 12:01 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-11-2013 11:38 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Aside from that, there are videos of Travon actually in real fights. Quite a bit different than just training...

Links?

As far as I know, there aren't any released videos of Martin actually fighting. He didn't have a record like Zimmerman of being reported to the police on multiple, separate occasions for violence.

All that happened was Martin recorded a video on his cell phone of two homeless men getting into a fight, and there’s a photo of Martin apparently acting as referee.

I guess that proves Zimmerman was right to shoot him.

Go back and read my post before you put words in my mouth.

I wasn't attacking Travon's character or insinuating he got what he deserved. I was only confronting another poster's ludicrous assertion that Zimmerman was a pussy for not being able to beat Travon up when he was currently training in martial arts.

I also retracted my statement about the videos and admitted that it turned out I was talking out of my ass.

If you go back further in this thread you can see I'm actually not arguing for either side of this case. I only argued for some rational perspective. Nothing more.

Sorry, I actually didn't intend for that line to be directed at you or anyone specifically. I Googled for the video and came across what seemed to be a very biased article. I was reading it while setting up the post and didn't see your new post. It was meant to be directed out in general and with humor.

Post: #175

(07-12-2013 02:22 AM)Atilla Wrote:  Sorry, I actually didn't intend for that line to be directed at you or anyone specifically. I Googled for the video and came across what seemed to be a very biased article. I was reading it while setting up the post and didn't see your new post. It was meant to be directed out in general and with humor.

Understood, Man. Apology accepted and no worries.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling