Post: #26

(04-10-2013 07:31 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 11:48 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 01:04 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  Software. No contest. You make a big data analytics software you will make $100K a day. Chances of average guy doing this 0.0001%.

Create it and they will come is a fallacy. Well, I should say it is more like hitting the lottery.

There are a ton of talented programmers that can create software but they cannot market it.

I am not talking about a software system I am talking about big data analytics. The networking space will become virtualized. You will see a wave of tech innovation where the routers and switches are run virtually.

Networks = the new servers.

Just like what VMware did to servers, someone will do that to networking. The person who does that will be a very very rich man. I've place a few bets on who will. Tough call though, but it's the only thing that matters in tech over the next decade because you can "run it" on the Internet which crushes social networking platforms if you're a black hatter now you've got a full virtual platform running serious heavy shit

People underestimate the impact, it basically means a real hatter can make $1M in a day no problem. Who cares if people don't want your product your already virtualizing their revenue = good night.

Cisco went down that path several years ago. The Nexus 1000v is a software-only switch that runs under the VMware ESXi hypervisor. Its purpose is to extend the switch fabric all the way down to the VM level.

There is now a 1000v Cloud Firewall (virtual ASA security appliance) and a 1000v Cloud Services Router.

So yes, this is the way forward in the data center, although physical network hardware isn't going extinct anytime soon.

Post: #27

Correct the Thesis is pretty much the same though. It's not like IBM stopped selling servers post vmw

Post: #28

Bloomberg says that when you hit 35, it's time to get out of software engineering.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-22...ajors.html

It's not a good industry to build a long term career IMHO due to constant learning.

http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/03/why_a_career_in.html

SAP and CRM (Siebel/Peoplesoft) are getting saturated with Indian developers/consultants nowadays.

I think the right job to be in is IT Sales. You cannot really outsource the sales process but you can definitely outsource the development/deployment.

Post: #29

If you go for IT industry especially software developers or consultants, be prepared to put a lot of long hours. There's no such thing as rocking your keyboard all day long and making cash. Even Zuckerberg worked 14 hours per day (and still works that long I heard) when building Facebook.

(04-09-2013 08:12 AM)XXL Wrote:  I'm rather green in this area so if someone has an idea please be specific. We already know the world and internet is going mobile and that google glasses is likely to be the game changer (if they actually deliver it).

I like the idea that the world getting all digital allows to make money by sitting somewhere in the world rocking your keyboard all day making cash this way. So which IT skill is worthy to focus on and why?

Ideas? Predictions? Experiences?

Post: #30

(04-10-2013 05:56 PM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  

(04-10-2013 07:31 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  [quote='worldwidetraveler' pid='416581' dateline='1365569321']
[quote='WestCoast' pid='416037' dateline='1365530695']
Software. No contest. You make a big data analytics software you will make $100K a day. Chances of average guy doing this 0.0001%.

Create it and they will come is a fallacy. Well, I should say it is more like hitting the lottery.

So yes, this is the way forward in the data center, although physical network hardware isn't going extinct anytime soon.

The Private sector guys who are going to make this breakthrough are already mostly done and they know who they are. Some guy asking about how to get started has literally no chance at that.

Software is really hard, you are competing with really smart geeks who are younger who learned programming at 14, 15, it's like trying to learn Sanskrit if you are over 21. You can never compete with an Indian who will work for nothing unless you are in sales, network security or something else that requires your physical presence in the USA.

A much more sure thing in my opinion is to get a masters in Nursing and become a Nurse Practitioner. They can't import enough of them and they make about 100K reliably. You're around DTF nurses all day. Or if you don't need that much dough X-Ray technician or even Dental Technician. Another thread on Roosh talks about Dentistry, they charge very big bucks, a crown is 1k.

also if you develop software be prepared to be asked all your fucking life "Why does it take so long? " Why isn't it done yet?" by exasperated, spoiled sales chicks far too dumb to do your job yet who make 2x what you do for smiling at pussy -deprived middle managers. It's an eternal death march, always unappreciated.

Hitting the jackpot like millionaire innovators or forget-it-even-more like Zuckerberg, well you have about the same chance as becoming the next top-40 musci artist or the Rolling Stones, respectively.

It's mostly a pink collar job now. An important exception --- A good place to escape the pressure but get lower pay and a guaranteed off time and pension would be a State or Fed IT job. they can't really ask you to work unpaid overtime which almost always happens in the Private Sector in IT because everything's always late.

Post: #31

Indian programmers are over-rated, just look at Microsoft Windows 98, they are designed mostly by Indians, that's why you see the blue screen often.

Anyway you're right, IT sales is the way to go since you cannot outsource them out to countries like India or Philippines.

(04-12-2013 01:57 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  The guys who are going to make this breakthrough are already mostly done and they know who they are. Some guy asking about how to get started has literally no chance at that.

Software is really hard, you are competing with really smart geeks who are younger who learned programming at 14, 15, it's like trying to learn Sanskrit if you are over 21. You can never compete with an Indian who will work for nothing unless you are in sales or something else that requires your physical presence in the USA.

Post: #32

(04-09-2013 11:42 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 11:25 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  Also learning new computer languages gets harder and harder as you age, just like regular languages. Take Ruby on Rails for instance, if you're 45 and trying to learn it and don't already know a very similar scripting language, and you're competing with 25 year olds, it's going to be rough.

I don't agree. Once you learn one language, it is easier to learn another if you have a solid foundation. The hard part is learning object oriented programming and other architecture like mvvm, mvc, etc...

After that, it is easy since it will come down to syntax and frameworks. Age has nothing to do with it from my experience.

This is factually true -- you would be right when there aren't a ton of idiots between you and a job you could easily adapt to (IF you are talented at programming which I wasn't) , however the way job ads and morons at HR see it, you can be a genius at PHP and understand OOP, but when they advertise for a Ruby job, they only want to talk to people who know Ruby and have been doing it for the last 3 years, etc.

I remember one experienced programmer told me about trying to get a job in a new language, he was really good at an older one. He said something like it took him 2-3 years to get a job in the new language, and once he got there, it took him something like a WEEK to learn it-- just as you say.

So there is the additional problem of HR idiots, as WELL AS age discrimination which you will run into if you are 40-something and the interviewer is 20-something. He will think you are from Mars, he can't imagine someone 45 even knowing how to operate a computer.

Post: #33

(04-12-2013 02:03 PM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  Indian programmers are over-rated, just look at Microsoft Windows 98, they are designed mostly by Indians, that's why you see the blue screen often.

Anyway you're right, IT sales is the way to go since you cannot outsource them out to countries like India or Philippines.

(04-12-2013 01:57 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  The guys who are going to make this breakthrough are already mostly done and they know who they are. Some guy asking about how to get started has literally no chance at that.

Software is really hard, you are competing with really smart geeks who are younger who learned programming at 14, 15, it's like trying to learn Sanskrit if you are over 21. You can never compete with an Indian who will work for nothing unless you are in sales or something else that requires your physical presence in the USA.

Indian programmers are smart but have no initiative, I had a guy I tried to delegate tasks to, he could set up DB servers, recompile apps, all sorts of great stuff; however when I gave him $50 and asked him to select a web host he couldn't take the risk of making a decision, just sent me a list of hosting companies. He couldn't grasp that I didn't want to be in the loop and was giving him freedom to fail; and was willing to take the risk.

Post: #34

If you want to make big money in IT as a technical career, then you may want to learn these technologies:

onetick
temenos
flexcube
reuters and bloomberg systems
odyssey
avaloq

Stay away from SAP or CRM since you will face competition from Asia.

Post: #35

In IT I think these will be the top professions of the future

1) Data Scientist

2) Pattern Recognition Specialist

If these interest you as a career one of these conferences would be worth attending -
http://www.iapr.org/conferences/

Post: #36

[quote='Seduction Sutra' pid='418955' dateline='1365794418']
If you want to make big money in IT as a technical career, then you may want to learn these technologies:

onetick
temenos
flexcube
reuters and bloomberg systems
odyssey
avaloq

Stay away from SAP or CRM since you will face competition from Asia.
[/quote
]

I don't think you need to fear competition from asia when you are SAP consultant for example. They know how to write code but for functional business consulting they lack knowledge, confident and language. Customers expect you to understand business very well. I myself havent met any indian consultant yet but have seen hundreds of programs signed by indian name.

Post: #37

(04-12-2013 03:21 PM)evilhei Wrote:  I don't think you need to fear competition from asia when you are SAP consultant for example. They know how to write code but for functional business consulting they lack knowledge, confident and language. Customers expect you to understand business very well. I myself havent met any indian consultant yet but have seen hundreds of programs signed by indian name.

This.

I disagree with pretty much all of what Seduction Sutra said. Especially that halfsigma link. Every point the article made was wrong IMO, except the project management part.

SQL is an example of a language that's barely changed in the last twenty years and is still highly marketable.

If you want to learn a new language, chances are you can learn it on the job while you get paid.

Any programmer worthy of the name can learn a new language and take it in his stride. The underlying principles don't change much. There's probably a free online tutorial to teach it.

Post: #38

(04-12-2013 01:48 PM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  I think the right job to be in is IT Sales. You cannot really outsource the sales process but you can definitely outsource the development/deployment.

thanks for pointing this out, dont know how i missed it, oh wait i was thinking like an engineer lol

This is where you need to progress IMHO after you master whatever technology you adopt unless you move to senior management (c level exec etc..) because you can make bulk cash with an uncapped commission structure and have a loose work/life balance cos all you have to do is make your numbers.

However to do well in sales, you got to have major game, interpersonal skills, solid technical knowledge so you understand what it is your selling and how customers can leverage it and a passion to do so. You also need to build relationships constantly and learn to manipulate customers to your way of thinking without being seen as doing such. Strong written and creative skills are also required.

unless you are very high end tech wise, sales will almost always make more then techs do but remember, you are only as good as your last quarter in sales so the pressure is always on.

Post: #39

Have you seen any developer in their 40s or 50s? I haven't. OTOH, I have seen a lot of accountants and lawyers in their 40s and 50s.

As a matter a fact, how many developers have 7 years of Ruby on Rails experience? Apart from David Heinemeier Hansson, I would say NONE.

The developers I know in their 40s and 50s are all retrenched since they cannot or don't want to move up to management.

Look, software engineering especially (.NET, Java, Ruby on Rails development/maintenance projects) are all boring. And there will be a time when you cannot code any more.

Just type in Google these two queries and you'll get what I mean.

burnout site:news.ycombinator.com
burnout site:stackexchange.com

I would concur there's little change in RDBMS especially SQL as a language. But even so, there's been movement to NO SQL databases like Mongo DB. I believe the trend is to keep on learning new stuff.

I am talking more on the majority of IT which can be found in software development or maintenance. 20 years ago, it was C/C++, 10 years ago it was Java/J2EE, now it's Ruby on Rails or PHP.

(04-12-2013 06:56 PM)Tigre Wrote:  This.

I disagree with pretty much all of what Seduction Sutra said. Especially that halfsigma link. Every point the article made was wrong IMO, except the project management part.

SQL is an example of a language that's barely changed in the last twenty years and is still highly marketable.

If you want to learn a new language, chances are you can learn it on the job while you get paid.

Any programmer worthy of the name can learn a new language and take it in his stride. The underlying principles don't change much. There's probably a free online tutorial to teach it.

Post: #40

(04-12-2013 03:21 PM)evilhei Wrote:  I don't think you need to fear competition from asia when you are SAP consultant for example. They know how to write code but for functional business consulting they lack knowledge, confident and language. Customers expect you to understand business very well. I myself havent met any indian consultant yet but have seen hundreds of programs signed by indian name.

I would say that I am pretty well connected with SAP and Siebel guys since I know quite a number. They are at consultant level, even then they all say that they're starting to face more competition from those of India and Philippines. The future doesn't look so good.

Post: #41

There are two kinds of sales in IT - hunters and farmers. Hunters hunt for new deals. Farmers manage existing accounts. Both still have quotas. Farmers will have more quota to fill since they already have relationship with existing accounts.

(04-12-2013 07:02 PM)loki Wrote:  

(04-12-2013 01:48 PM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  I think the right job to be in is IT Sales. You cannot really outsource the sales process but you can definitely outsource the development/deployment.

thanks for pointing this out, dont know how i missed it, oh wait i was thinking like an engineer lol

This is where you need to progress IMHO after you master whatever technology you adopt unless you move to senior management (c level exec etc..) because you can make bulk cash with an uncapped commission structure and have a loose work/life balance cos all you have to do is make your numbers.

However to do well in sales, you got to have major game, interpersonal skills, solid technical knowledge so you understand what it is your selling and how customers can leverage it and a passion to do so. You also need to build relationships constantly and learn to manipulate customers to your way of thinking without being seen as doing such. Strong written and creative skills are also required.

unless you are very high end tech wise, sales will almost always make more then techs do but remember, you are only as good as your last quarter in sales so the pressure is always on.

Post: #42

(04-12-2013 07:39 PM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  Have you seen any developer in their 40s or 50s? I haven't. OTOH, I have seen a lot of accountants and lawyers in their 40s and 50s.

As a matter a fact, how many developers have 7 years of Ruby on Rails experience? Apart from David Heinemeier Hansson, I would say NONE.

The developers I know in their 40s and 50s are all retrenched since they cannot or don't want to move up to management.

Look, software engineering especially (.NET, Java, Ruby on Rails development/maintenance projects) are all boring. And there will be a time when you cannot code any more.

Just type in Google these two queries and you'll get what I mean.

burnout site:news.ycombinator.com
burnout site:stackexchange.com

I would concur there's little change in RDBMS especially SQL as a language. But even so, there's been movement to NO SQL databases like Mongo DB. I believe the trend is to keep on learning new stuff.

I am talking more on the majority of IT which can be found in software development or maintenance. 20 years ago, it was C/C++, 10 years ago it was Java/J2EE, now it's Ruby on Rails or PHP.

You must not have worked on too many projects or companies.

Throughout my career I worked with plenty of developers in their 40's and 50's on projects all over the world. Sure, there comes a time for everyone to retire so I imagine that is when they stop working.

Post: #43

(04-12-2013 07:45 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  You must not have worked on too many projects or companies.

Throughout my career I worked with plenty of people in their 40's and 50's on projects all over the world.

I have worked for quite a number of companies (10); the longest is the biggest SI firm in the world. I have quite a number of projects under my belt; predominantly in Singapore and London. So I am watching this trend of outsourcing happening right before my eyes.

Post: #44

(04-12-2013 02:10 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  This is factually true -- you would be right when there aren't a ton of idiots between you and a job you could easily adapt to (IF you are talented at programming which I wasn't) , however the way job ads and morons at HR see it, you can be a genius at PHP and understand OOP, but when they advertise for a Ruby job, they only want to talk to people who know Ruby and have been doing it for the last 3 years, etc.

I remember one experienced programmer told me about trying to get a job in a new language, he was really good at an older one. He said something like it took him 2-3 years to get a job in the new language, and once he got there, it took him something like a WEEK to learn it-- just as you say.

So there is the additional problem of HR idiots, as WELL AS age discrimination which you will run into if you are 40-something and the interviewer is 20-something. He will think you are from Mars, he can't imagine someone 45 even knowing how to operate a computer.

Yeah, it is insane what some companies want. They want experts in 10 different technologies.

One reason why guys go for certs.

I went my own path and work for my own company. I still had to learn a lot of skills (a ton outside of programming) but more lucrative and I don't have to continue being an expert of a ton of technologies. I just need enough to keep my customer's happy. Hell, I am not even a great programmer but am quite good at business.

Post: #45

(04-12-2013 07:48 PM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  

(04-12-2013 07:45 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  You must not have worked on too many projects or companies.

Throughout my career I worked with plenty of people in their 40's and 50's on projects all over the world.

I have worked for quite a number of companies (10); the longest is the biggest SI firm in the world. I have quite a number of projects under my belt; predominantly in Singapore and London. So I am watching this trend of outsourcing happening right before my eyes.

What does this have to do with outsourcing?

Post: #46

(04-12-2013 07:53 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(04-12-2013 07:48 PM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  

(04-12-2013 07:45 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  You must not have worked on too many projects or companies.

Throughout my career I worked with plenty of people in their 40's and 50's on projects all over the world.

I have worked for quite a number of companies (10); the longest is the biggest SI firm in the world. I have quite a number of projects under my belt; predominantly in Singapore and London. So I am watching this trend of outsourcing happening right before my eyes.

What does this have to do with outsourcing?

Companies are not willing to hire old developers since they can get cheaper and younger developers from countries like India or Philippines.

Post: #47

(04-12-2013 07:55 PM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  

(04-12-2013 07:53 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(04-12-2013 07:48 PM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  

(04-12-2013 07:45 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  You must not have worked on too many projects or companies.

Throughout my career I worked with plenty of people in their 40's and 50's on projects all over the world.

I have worked for quite a number of companies (10); the longest is the biggest SI firm in the world. I have quite a number of projects under my belt; predominantly in Singapore and London. So I am watching this trend of outsourcing happening right before my eyes.

What does this have to do with outsourcing?

Companies are not willing to hire old developers since they can get cheaper and younger developers from countries like India or Philippines.

I assume you are under 40 years of age because you would be jobless then based on what you are saying. At a young age you have worked for over 10 companies.

Something doesn't add up.

How do you know what ages the guys the jobs are being outsourced? They could be in their 40's and 50's and you wouldn't know.

You don't sound credible. What I do know is a company won't hire a guy that jumps from company to company because it costs them a lot of money in the beginning when hiring someone new. You, under 40, have jumped a lot if we are to believe you worked at 10 different companies.

Post: #48

(04-12-2013 08:03 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I assume you are under 40 years of age because you would be jobless then based on what you are saying yet you have worked for over 10 companies.

Something doesn't add up.

How do you know what ages the guys the jobs are being outsourced? They could be in their 40's and 50's and you wouldn't know.

You don't sound credible. What I do know is a company won't hire a guy that jumps from company to company because it costs them a lot of money in the beginning when hiring someone new. You, under 40, have jumped a lot if we are to believe you worked at 10 different companies.

I do mostly contracting jobs in the beginning of my career, I started very young. Most companies I worked have policies of not hiring developers in their 40s and above; I have been in charge of hiring in some of the companies I worked for.

Post: #49

(04-12-2013 08:12 PM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  I do mostly contracting jobs in the beginning of my career, I started very young. Most companies I worked have policies of not hiring developers in their 40s and above; I have been in charge of hiring in some of the companies I worked for.

You contracted in the beginning of your career when you had little experience? heh

What other illegal activities does you and your 10 companies do? We got age descrimination, what about race or gender?

Post: #50

(04-12-2013 08:16 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(04-12-2013 08:12 PM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  I do mostly contracting jobs in the beginning of my career, I started very young. Most companies I worked have policies of not hiring developers in their 40s and above; I have been in charge of hiring in some of the companies I worked for.

You contracted in the beginning of your career when you had little experience? heh

What other illegal activities does you and your 10 companies do? We got age descrimination, what about race or gender?

I don't know why you get butthurt over this. You don't know me and my background. And I am just sharing my life experience here, if you don't have similar point of view then you don't need to be anal.