Post: #76

(04-03-2015 05:20 AM)americanInEurope Wrote:  High level Networking, Server and Security guys will always have jobs and make tons of money.

How does one become a "high-level" guy? I've been in the freaking profession since 1998, and I still do shit jobs like swapping tapes.

Post: #77

Before you all jump on me just keep in mind I'm living in a tiny city and making that kind of money, plus I have a lot of down time here. If I wanted do a little more work there's a server admin job I'm overqualified for just down the street for $68k but I like my free time.

I live about an hour away from a major metro area where I can easily get $70k for what I'm doing now and about $90k for the other job, I'm just not in the mood for a commute.

Post: #78

(04-03-2015 05:20 AM)americanInEurope Wrote:  

(04-09-2013 08:21 AM)chyamor Wrote:  Network for sure. CCNP atleast. Best thing is you can do a lot of side jobs since you can remote in and out anytime you want. Started my CCNA/CCNP last week just so I can do shit while at work and get paid double time

(04-09-2013 08:19 AM)Gallego2006 Wrote:  Virtualization skills. If you have solid networking experience or certifications like CCNA and then went after a VCP cert from VMWare, you can pull $135K+ in the DC, NYC, or Silicon Valley areas.

And I just read the other day that 99% of things in the world still aren't connected to the Internet, so....

I've been in IT for 15 years. These first two posters hit the nail right on the head. Networking or Servers (VM) are the best IT related jobs with long term potential that just about anyone can get good at if they stick to it. The rest of the thread unfortunately veers off course with how good or bad software engineering is. The only advantage I see from software engineer, if you can even do it, is that you get to work remotely. Other than that, there are other options out there that pay just as good as are less demanding. There are just as many networking or VM jobs than there are software jobs. Again the only difference is you have to work in an office as opposed to a programmer who can work from anywhere.

I'm in networking and pull in 6 figures in salary or hourly work. Aside from being a CCNP (working on my CCIE now), the biggest salary boost is my experience. It's really hard to find high level network guys with enough experience to solve complex issues quickly. I see it all the time...junior network guys who have loads of certs but have clearly either brain dumped or have done certs before experience. They don't keep jobs long or get discouraged because they are hit with really difficult problems and have to go at it alone. Companies don't have huge networking or server shops anymore. They're moving to have 1 or 2 network architects in place and let the helpdesk or Tier 1 field engineers do the day-to-day switch stuff. Those architects have a lot on their plate and know a lot, but get paid big bucks. A company hires a networking guy with a CCNA or maybe CCNP thinking he has experience too, but they end up making a lot of mistakes. Junior guys could do good shadowing them and learning as much as you can so when they inevitable do get the certs they have skills to back it up.

High level Networking, Server and Security guys will always have jobs and make tons of money.

I'm planning on starting to take some I.T. classes this summer to expand my marketability for higher paying work. I currently am an Electronics Engineering Tech and work pretty extensively with networking due to the nature of my job. Where should I start? Will my prior experience and education in E.E.T. be beneficial? Are there networking positions I can do remotely? I am into the idea of location independence-everything I do is to make enough to put into investments to be able to live independently, but if I can make a career while doing it that'd be ideal.

Post: #79

I'm looking at studying information assurance (penetration testing / digital forensics / etc). Would there be any issues getting a decent job abroad considering the need for security checks for those kinds of positions?

Post: #80

(04-05-2015 05:44 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  Interesting. I'm still a bit of a neophyte when it comes to coding, but I'd have thought that the intelligence required to perform a programming task is far more related to the nature of the task than to the language that is used.

I'm sure that writing a compiler or contributing to a kernel in Python is a LOT harder than writing a web crawler in C. If someone is smart enough to write an OS in Python, he is certainly smart enough to do anything in C that is easier than writing an OS. Or am I way off base here?

I don't know anyone that would choose C to write a web crawler with. I actually turned down a web crawler programming position that used C#. I am guessing the high level languages are used for that C#, Java, PHP, Python, Ruby. You are targeting the DOM constantly why would you use C?

I could write a million exceptions.

If you are looking for a job at a company that will pay you a decent salary the intelligence and skill on average required for those languages I've listed is good starting point.

The fact of the matter is on the low end of the scale you have your community college guy with an AA in Art History that can learn HTML/CSS/Javascript and help make Wordpress and other content heavy sites making $20-30/hr.

On the other end you have a guy with a computer science B.S. from a respectable university with an extremely high IQ writing firmware in C for infrared cameras (insert other complex product here) making $70-100/hr.

The backend web and phone app programmers sit between these in intelligence, skill, and pay in the vast majority of cases. Barrier to entry, supply vs. demand and all that.

That is the general scale.

The art history jr. college guy will not be writing firmware in C anytime soon in almost every case imaginable. He can make content websites though and turn it into a business where he becomes a project manager and has other guys pumping out sites and work for $20-30/hr.

If you want to make more than $100/hr as a programmer you need to build a product or start a consulting/service business and scale by hiring others to do the technical work and work on multiple projects at once.

Post: #81

I find this to be pretty accurate:

http://works.workopolis.com/wp/images/ar..._Guide.jpg

Post: #82

^ That is a good list.

If you have some decent talent and people skills, if you choose to get out of programming and into management you can be making $110k+ no problem with 3 years of experience if you are willing to work hard, jump companies after 1 year, and either move or live in a larger tech hub which is happening to many cities (L.A., Chicago, Austin etc...).

I know 3 people personally making $120k+ in tech with less than 5 years experience each. They all work pretty hard. 2 of the 3 are very bright.

Post: #83

If people are looking for locations I think Austin and Portland are probably the two best for tech jobs right now although not the most high paying. SF still has those. Higher and higher percentage of tech hires are remote workers now though and if it's a bay area startup you can get a bit of a premium still since many of them are bleeding cash due to crazy valuations lately and a influx of cash.

If I had to give specific advice it would be:

1) learn nodejs, couchdb
2) build a few projects and put them on github
3) put up a blog and blog about various crap you learned on nodejs with some tips (if you word it like you are making a beginners guide you don't even have to be super knowledgable)
4) put up a page offering consulting and put the rate very high. $120/hour or so should do

Then as long as you keep adding stuff to the blog you should be able to start applying to some of these remote nodejs gigs.. and giving them a "deal" with $70/hour or something to some bay area startup using all the latest hip tech (nodejs/couchdb/docker/aerospike/etc.)

The caveat here is that you really gotta learn this stuff.

Post: #84

^ Complete agreement if you are after big $ in start up by getting equity. Node will place you in the start up world. This will mean you need to work harder on average than at a more stable Java / C#.NET job.

I would say if you are an RVF member your 3 best cities for salary vs. cost of living + game opportunities are the three I mentioned:
L.A.
Chicago
Austin

Portland is just so bad for game...

Post: #85

(04-05-2015 05:44 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 04:52 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  Let's make a distinction for people of thinking of getting into programming:

From Not Difficult (average intelligence can learn with ease):
HTML / CSS
Basic javascript, jQuery
Basic SQL

Average Difficulty (average intelligence can learn with a fair amount of work):
High level languages - Python, C#, Java, PHP, Perl, Swift, Ruby
complex Javascript
complex SQL

Getting Difficult (average intelligence will struggle):
C++
Objective-C
very complex Javascript
very complex SQL

OK this is Difficult - (average intelligence probably will not be able to master even with tons of work - i.e. apply it to complex applications)
C language
Lisp
Clojure
Assembly language

You will see a direct correlation between these languages for jobs and barrier to entry as far as intelligence + skill is concerned.

Interesting. I'm still a bit of a neophyte when it comes to coding, but I'd have thought that the intelligence required to perform a programming task is far more related to the nature of the task than to the language that is used.

I'm sure that writing a compiler or contributing to a kernel in Python is a LOT harder than writing a web crawler in C. If someone is smart enough to write an OS in Python, he is certainly smart enough to do anything in C that is easier than writing an OS. Or am I way off base here?

A lot of times the nature of the task determines the language. Writing an OS or kernel in Python would be insanity as Python requires a runtime on top of the hardware adding layers of frustration. C is the language for OS development on modern hardware because it's form allows it to readily translate directly to the machine's native instructions. Grouping languages by roles you can get something like:

Presentation: HTML, CSS, LaTeX, sometimes javascript, PHP

Tying together existing tools for a cause: Perl, Python, sometimes javascript

Application Development: C, Common Lisp, Haskell, C++ done well (very hard)

Niche applications: C++, Objective C, Javascript, SQL

Mountains of frustration that increase your fungibility and chances of competing with Indian slave labor: Anything.Net, Java, Javascript, C++ sought naively

Niche uses that make bank: COBOL, Ada, C done spectacularly, Common Lisp done well (SBCL is the compiler of choice here), Verilog, Assembly languages

This clustering is a sort of starting point. Generally anything tied to mass market desktop or mobile platforms is going to put you at risk of being struck by a lower bidder. C++ and Java especially suffer from management that isn't tech oriented getting tempted by cheap foreign options, and if you try to go location independent with a skill set the buyers determine to be fungible...

There is serious money to be made though on older systems using older languages that simply can not be replaced. The catch is that these are smaller populations and it can take some time to build a reputation for being to work in those languages.

I recommend that anyone interested in technology work become familiar with some flavor of unix and its bundled tools. The software's free and old refurbished Thinkpads are cheap (most thinkpads also have new batteries in production). If you start your journey into deeper understanding of computing on a linux or BSD system with python and the system's included tools and then move on to C or Common Lisp you could in a year or two find yourself miles a head of university graduates in the discipline.

Post: #86

This is a really good topic, thank you guys.
I'm currently working as a PHP Developer in some SEO Marketing/WordPress shop, but the salary is really, really low. I'm thinking of changing to Mobile Dev. but I don't think it's a big thing here in Brazil. Any thoughts?

Post: #87

(04-07-2015 09:42 PM)PauBrasil Wrote:  This is a really good topic, thank you guys.
I'm currently working as a PHP Developer in some SEO Marketing/WordPress shop, but the salary is really, really low. I'm thinking of changing to Mobile Dev. but I don't think it's a big thing here in Brazil. Any thoughts?

If you are producing great stuff with PHP, mobile isn't necessarily going to be a step up. Both the PHP webdev and mobile dev markets are tournament markets. People at the top can make bank, but luck is almost as big of a factor as skill.

Consider C or Ada and systems level programming where you dick around on the OS and firmware level. This is work that can generally be done anywhere. Pick a Linux or BSD flavor and play with it.

If you are adamant at being a Windows person malware research can pay a lot for people with that same C skillset, but it tends to be far less location independent.

Post: #88

EDIT

Post: #89

IT Sales skill.

Post: #90

(04-07-2015 10:08 PM)Designate Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 08:29 PM)BBinger Wrote:  Niche uses that make bank: COBOL, Ada, C done spectacularly, Common Lisp done well (SBCL is the compiler of choice here), Verilog, Assembly languages

I've seen this one in action. It is common for state and local government bureaucracies in the U.S to have old IT systems from before the 90s that use this language and as you can imagine they work like complete shit and they are still in use because they are too cheap to create or implement new systems. Not too many programmers and those in the IT profession are familiar with COBOL nowadays, so this truly can be a never-ending gravy train for those who know it.

There scary thing is how much other stuff there is just like COBOL that either Government or banks will want. Languages that "programmers" will be too snobby to touch and Operating systems that won't be trendy enough for sysadmins to consider worth their time.

It is amazing the way people with degrees will flock to Python (decent replacement to perl) or node.js (cancer which has efficiently lost millions of dollars when applied to remotely safety critical situations). Yet they will treat people who chase pure money niches like they are sucking shit ut of septic tanks.

Post: #91

(04-07-2015 10:05 PM)BBinger Wrote:  

(04-07-2015 09:42 PM)PauBrasil Wrote:  This is a really good topic, thank you guys.
I'm currently working as a PHP Developer in some SEO Marketing/WordPress shop, but the salary is really, really low. I'm thinking of changing to Mobile Dev. but I don't think it's a big thing here in Brazil. Any thoughts?

If you are producing great stuff with PHP, mobile isn't necessarily going to be a step up. Both the PHP webdev and mobile dev markets are tournament markets. People at the top can make bank, but luck is almost as big of a factor as skill.

Consider C or Ada and systems level programming where you dick around on the OS and firmware level. This is work that can generally be done anywhere. Pick a Linux or BSD flavor and play with it.

If you are adamant at being a Windows person malware research can pay a lot for people with that same C skillset, but it tends to be far less location independent.

Never thought of a remote job doing systems programming, I guess I'm going to do some research on this, thank you.

Well, as you were talking about it, I think focusing on ancient niches like COBOL, Ada, etc. might be a good idea as well, but I don't know if it's more location independent.

Post: #92

A good understanding of security is highly valuable as it is big business. It's been in the news recently a fair amount, many large corporations and government networks have been hacked or taken offline, costing a lot of cash. This is why good security is so expensive, particularly things like DDoS mitigation and penetration testing.

It's no wonder why hackers are sometimes employed instead of going to jail after they are caught. Their knowledge is highly valuable.

Post: #93

(04-08-2015 05:38 AM)PauBrasil Wrote:  Never thought of a remote job doing systems programming, I guess I'm going to do some research on this, thank you.

Well, as you were talking about it, I think focusing on ancient niches like COBOL, Ada, etc. might be a good idea as well, but I don't know if it's more location independent.

It's not the most common thing and you may not be able to start getting paid working remotely, but it happens. Open source projects are a good way to build credibility. As you learn more you can escalate your involvement. Maybe one you start to know a system and coding well enough you can start yourself off in a project by submitting ports. Once you get more skilled an experienced you can work on components of the OS yourself. It's a decent way to build a CV if you end up liking this stuff.

A lot of people who get paid for Linux development start this way and then when a company approaches them to do work they ask where the money is. People who've built the credibility then start getting checks.

This takes time though, and I can't recommend it unless after trying it you end up actually liking it. It takes money to have a solid quality of life, but at some point you have to optimize quality of life over quantity of money.