Post: #1

My mother was born in Seoul, and then adopted to America at age 4. Recently I banged a South Korean chick (one of the things I do to game Asians is tell them I'm half Korean, even though I'm only a quarter Korean) and she told me I might be eligible for dual citizenship.

So I called up my local Korean embassy, and they told me my mother is eligible for dual citizenship. I asked them if the rules would apply for me, and they told me I'd have to call the Ministry of Justice in Korea directly. So I waited until late that night and called up the Ministry of Justice, and they told me:

- My mother would get citizenship approved ASAP
- I would be eligible for fast citizenship, one or two years of living time required, but that I'd have to renounce my US citizenship.

I hung up and it got my hamster spinning. Would it be possible to get my Korean citizenship and then somehow avoid letting the US authorities know about it?

Let's say I report my existing US passport as lost, and then get a second one. I spend a year in Korea (while traveling everywhere in Asia) and then apply for citizenship. I give them the old passport, get my Korean passport, and then leave the country before anyone catches on.

What do you guys think? Feasible? Possible? Worth it?

Post: #2

Citizenship is one of the most precious statuses you can hold. I wouldn't mess with it for anything.

What is the possible gain for you that you can leverage from dual citizenship? Unless there's some very real financial gain here I can't imagine anything worth the risk.

Post: #3

Having an extra passport could save my ass someday, and allows me to keep out of the USA's radar if I want to travel and go places. Might also be useful for scamming other countries - say, for example, I go to a country with a 4 month visitor time limit, then I leave, and then I come back with a different passport.

But you're right, I don't think this is possible either, I just want to see if anyone on this board might know something I do not.

Post: #4

(02-17-2013 07:10 AM)Samseau Wrote:  - My mother would get citizenship approved ASAP
- I would be eligible for fast citizenship, one or two years of living time required, but that I'd have to renounce my US citizenship.

I don't think you have to go through the whole lost passport routine, some of these government agencies only ask that you promise to renounce USA citizenship and that you destroy your passport once your receive your new one. I doubt anyone is going to check up on you on whether you really destroyed the passport, and you can always then say that actually you lost it.

The trick is to use your passports smartly, don't do something silly like try to enter the USA on your Korean passport or enter Korea on your USA passport once you have dual passports. Border control will immediately pick up that you are using the wrong passport and then make your life uncomfortable.

The main issue is that it is illegal for an American to be a dual citizen, according to the the American government. The Koreans don't seem to mind that much, apparently they even have dual citizenship categories you can apply for.

I don't know if the Koreans will attempt to notify the Americans of your application though, they are close military allies after all.

Post: #5

(02-17-2013 07:39 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  The main issue is that it is illegal for an American to be a dual citizen, according to the the American government. The Koreans don't seem to mind that much, apparently they even have dual citizenship categories you can apply for.

I don't know if the Koreans will attempt to notify the Americans of your application though, they are close military allies after all.

Really, brah? Better do your research before spreading misinformation.

Quote:A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw..._1753.html

In practice, even if you apply for another citizenship you'll still not lose your US citizenship, as it has to be proven beyond doubt that in doing so you intend to renounce your US citizenship, and you can always say you didn't know. If memory serves there have been cases where the Supreme court have arbitrated on this.

Roosh as an example has both Turkey and US citizenship.

Oh and Samseau, I heard second handed stories of children of South Korean immigrants being immediately required to serve in the South Korean army if they stay in South Korea for long, as they consider them citizens by birth even though they hadn't set foot in the country and don't speak the language. I'd do my research well and not play around with it if I were you.

For people interested, there's http://www.richw.org/dualcit/

Post: #6

Dual citizen. It's not illegal. I was told by border agent of one country that there is no problem with entering that country on its native passport and leaving on US passport to get back.

Post: #7

I think if you want Korean citizenship you have to fulfill the 24 month mandatory military service. I'm stationed in Korea and I work with a KATUSA (Korean Augmentee to the US Army) who grew up in Chile and wanted to return to Korea. He's in his 30s and is serving out his time.

FYI, conditions in the ROK Army are hard. ROK soldiers lead an austere life and hitting soldiers to get them in line is common.

Post: #8

If they say you have to renounce US citizenship, that probably means they only give you Korean citizenship when they see evidence you've renounced your US one. Dual citizenship is not illegal, but if they told you this, then sounds like that's the deal they're offering you.

In which case you'd have to give up being an American and won't be able to get around military service. (whereas dual Korean/US citizens can - they can enter + leave Korea on their US passport)

Post: #9

(02-17-2013 08:27 AM)cool Wrote:  I think if you want Korean citizenship you have to fulfill the 24 month mandatory military service. I'm stationed in Korea and I work with a KATUSA (Korean Augmentee to the US Army) who grew up in Chile and wanted to return to Korea. He's in his 30s and is serving out his time.

FYI, conditions in the ROK Army are hard. ROK soldiers lead an austere life and hitting soldiers to get them in line is common.

You can also do it working in an office, from what I hear. Probably depends on skills/connections tho.

Post: #10

(02-17-2013 10:13 AM)RichieP Wrote:  If they say you have to renounce US citizenship, that probably means they only give you Korean citizenship when they see evidence you've renounced your US one.

What kind of evidence do you think they're looking for?

Quote:I'm stationed in Korea and I work with a KATUSA (Korean Augmentee to the US Army) who grew up in Chile and wanted to return to Korea. He's in his 30s and is serving out his time.

Were any of his parents born in Korea? Why didn't he go back to Chile?

Post: #11

(02-17-2013 11:14 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(02-17-2013 10:13 AM)RichieP Wrote:  If they say you have to renounce US citizenship, that probably means they only give you Korean citizenship when they see evidence you've renounced your US one.

What kind of evidence do you think they're looking for?

Not sure man. But if they're saying you have to renounce it, they've probably got some way to verify that, otherwise why would they bother?

A quick Google tells me that you can only renounce US citizenship outside the US, at an embassy. So they'd probably want you to do it at an embassy in Korea, and they'd verify it with the embassy before granting you Korean citizenship. That's my uneducated guess.

If you can find a way around it, data sheet please

As a side note, on the military service thing - if you genuinely get dual citizenship, you can use your other passport to enter and exit Korea and avoid military service. Kind of defeats the point of getting Korean citizenship though.

Post: #12

Dual citizenship is legal, you don't have to hide anything.

Uncle Sam only cares if you have money abroad and aren't reporting it.

Post: #13

(02-17-2013 11:29 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

(02-17-2013 11:14 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(02-17-2013 10:13 AM)RichieP Wrote:  If they say you have to renounce US citizenship, that probably means they only give you Korean citizenship when they see evidence you've renounced your US one.

What kind of evidence do you think they're looking for?

Not sure man. But if they're saying you have to renounce it, they've probably got some way to verify that, otherwise why would they bother?

A quick Google tells me that you can only renounce US citizenship outside the US, at an embassy. So they'd probably want you to do it at an embassy in Korea, and they'd verify it with the embassy before granting you Korean citizenship. That's my uneducated guess.

If you can find a way around it, data sheet please

Hmmm.... From the wikipedia page:

Quote:Those who acquire Korean nationality by naturalization normally must give up foreign nationality within six months or forfeit Korean nationality. An exception to this is draft-age males, who must complete or be exempted from military service before being allowed to forfeit Korean nationality.

Hmmm....

So, what if I got my citizenship and bail on Korea without renouncing my US citizenship OR serving military time? Then South Korea will let me keep my citizenship because I haven't served the requisite military time.

The only problem is I'll be a wanted man in South Korea, but who cares? I'll have the passport. However, passports only last for a certain amount of time, but can't I just get my South Korean passport renewed at any South Korean embassy? Or will they deny me a passport renewal unless I go back to South Korea and serve military time?

And then if I manage to dodge the South Korean draft until I'm over the age of 35-37, will they cancel my citizenship because I am no longer draft age eligible and I never provided proof of renouncing my US citizenship?

I'm curious enough to try this just so I can find out...

Post: #14

(02-17-2013 07:59 AM)the_conductor Wrote:  Really, brah? Better do your research before spreading misinformation.

My bad, sorry. Thanks for pointing out my error.

Post: #15

You can tell South Korea that you renounce your US citizenship all you want. The US won't recognize it unless you formally do it through proper procedures.

Same thing when people immigrate to America and taking an oath to the US while still continuing to keep their previous citizenship.

Post: #16

Samseau,

In my opinion, the first thing you should do is verify the first information that you got from the Ministry of Justice, saying that you'd have to renounce your U.S. citizenship.

I'm not speaking from experience with regards to Korea specifically, but calling up these bureaucratic types is exactly the type of situation in which they give an alarmingly high percentage of incorrect answers or even downright guesses on anything more complicated than the most basic of questions.

They don't have time, they don't care, they're overworked and underpaid and often just want to get you off the phone.

Seems a little dubious to me that you'd have to give up U.S. citizenship to become South Korean, given the solid relations between the 2 countries and that there millions of people the world over with dual nationalities from countries that have downright frosty relations.

Also, if you'd have to give up your own U.S. citizenship to become Korean, how come there is no mention of your mother having to do the same to become Korean? (rhetorical question)

Post: #17

even with dual citizenship, i was under the impression that you still would need to use your us passport to go in and out of america. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw..._1753.html

Post: #18

(02-17-2013 01:25 PM)Technics Wrote:  Samseau,

In my opinion, the first thing you should do is verify the first information that you got from the Ministry of Justice, saying that you'd have to renounce your U.S. citizenship.

I'm not speaking from experience with regards to Korea specifically, but calling up these bureaucratic types is exactly the type of situation in which they give an alarmingly high percentage of incorrect answers or even downright guesses on anything more complicated than the most basic of questions.

They don't have time, they don't care, they're overworked and underpaid and often just want to get you off the phone.

Seems a little dubious to me that you'd have to give up U.S. citizenship to become South Korean, given the solid relations between the 2 countries and that there millions of people the world over with dual nationalities from countries that have downright frosty relations.

Also, if you'd have to give up your own U.S. citizenship to become Korean, how come there is no mention of your mother having to do the same to become Korean? (rhetorical question)

Because my mother was born in Korea. I was not. That is a tangible difference.

Regarding your distrust of Korean buraceracy - I couldn't agree more. The woman I spoke to over the phone was barely understandable. However, given what I have learned so far, I know that, as a man, they will not force me to revoke my korean citizenship until I serve military time, and if I never serve it that means they'll never be able to revoke my k-pass.

I was planning on calling them again, probably tonight, and hopefully I'll talk to someone else with better english. I also need to know how long I'd have to be a Korean resident before I could get my citizenship.

Quote:even with dual citizenship, i was under the impression that you still would need to use your us passport to go in and out of america. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw..._1753.html

Wow, that sucks. Complicates things a shit load.

It would mean, in order to avoid suspicion, I would need to start traveling FROM SKorea, in order to create an unbroken chain of stamps on my passport.

Then, if I wanted to return to the USA, I would just use my USA passport, but when I wanted to resume traveling I would need to go back to the last country I was at in order to keep the Korean passport looking like an unbroken chain

And there's also the possibility that they could put a hold on my korean passport until I go back and serve time.

Post: #19

you might still be able to get an unbroken chain of stamps. im not sure if you can include two passports. For example, you want to go to Columbia. You go from US to MExico, using the US passport. You still do have a verifiable stamp saying you legally entered legally, but then going from Mexico to Columbia (let's pretend you transferred flights in Mexico) you have them stamp the alternate instead. not sure if that would work

Post: #20

Found some good info on this:

Quote:I typically use my passports this way: USA customs doesn’t check passports going out – so no problem there. The airlines do – mainly because they want to avoid issues (like no visa) and having an extra passenger to return. Show them the foreign passport.

Going into a country entails the same rules as above – use the same passport going in as you will going out. In the case of Brazil – that would be my non-US passport. Coming back gets tricky. Of course, I’ll use the US passport on entry for review and stamp by border protection (they rarely check for an origin stamp). But at check-in, the airline needs to see both – the first to make a notation (in the case of Brazil) on the non-US passport for Brazilian border authorities, the second (the US passport) to ensure you don’t need a visa.

That is one of the few times you have to produce both. And interestingly enough, having two passports is getting pretty common – so even with border authorities it is raising less of an eyebrow (although, I suppose, any excuse could be used to justify their position, or extract some money to expedite the process – local customs vary, so traveler beware).

Post: #21

Samseau,

Why are you thinking about doing this? Just to have an "escape route?" You want to get involved in some SK things? Anytime there is military service potentially involved it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. I could see it being worthwhile to get an EU passport, but SK seems too niche.

Post: #22

(02-17-2013 05:47 PM)Menace Wrote:  Samseau,

Why are you thinking about doing this? Just to have an "escape route?" You want to get involved in some SK things? Anytime there is military service potentially involved it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. I could see it being worthwhile to get an EU passport, but SK seems too niche.

Agreed. I didn't bring this up in my first post because you didn't solicit info on whether you should be doing this, but rather how to do this.

An EU passport is the real prize as it allows you to live/work visa-free in 23 (forgot the exact number) of countries. That's a serious benefit.

Post: #23

I had some problems aquiring a residence permit to a country. I called up the consulate maybe 10 times. The first 9 times they gave me the easy answer that meant bad news for me, but the 10th time I talked to a guy who cared. He told me the rules aren't as strictly enforced as they say online and that they're designed for asylum seekers and such. I would call, call, call again until you talk to someone competent.

Post: #24

(02-17-2013 05:47 PM)Menace Wrote:  Samseau,

Why are you thinking about doing this? Just to have an "escape route?" You want to get involved in some SK things? Anytime there is military service potentially involved it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. I could see it being worthwhile to get an EU passport, but SK seems too niche.

Easy, because my mother was born there and it may give a quick way to get a second citizenship (1-2 years). For 1-2 years, what's to lose? I could run an online biz and teach english during the day, and in two years I'll leave after a great time, a new passport, and some English teaching experience should I decide to go to other countries where teaching English requires previous experience.

Post: #25

I wouldn't risk it man. It's much better to have an American passport, which you already have, than a Korean passport. Regarding dual citizenship, it is certainly not illegal as many have stated. There are cases though that can make it very difficult. For example, if you are a Swiss citizen, you are supposed to serve in the army for x amount of time. This could be a problem because if you serve in any other countries army, then you will get your American passport revoked. In this case though, I think there are ways around serving in the Swiss army. There are usually hoops you can jump through to get around this kind of stuff. I find it odd though that they would want you to give up your American passport in S. Korea since the US and SK are allies.