Post: #1

Ups I said it,
I believe that buying and holding and praying is not a smart Investment strategy since most people just loose doing that. If you want to buy and hold do that with undervalued property stocks ar more fore the casflow not fore capital gains.

Here is an Interresting Video and again everything post here I have either implemented myself or now for a fact that it works maybe you get some value out of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...TTB8hGDI#!

PS: I am not affiliated with the speaker but I learned a few things that ar Gold to me that is why I share it so maybe other people can get something out of it aswell...If not that's cool with me.

Post: #2

If you bought and held the Dow 100 years ago you'd have made quite a significant return on your investment. On average, holding stocks long term yields a return.

Post: #3

What a ridiculous assertion. Go talk to any investors that made a fortune off of Iomega, 3M, or Mac.

Post: #4

(11-15-2012 12:55 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  What a ridiculous assertion. Go talk to any investors that made a fortune off of Iomega, 3M, or Mac.

Do you actualy make money true the stock market ?
If not why should I listen to you?

Post: #5

You can buy a stock and earn its dividend yield. Some stocks are paying great dividends so you can hold if until it reaches your yield target.

P.S: I don't know anyone who buys a stock and prays... Usually when you buy something it's because you are quite convinced it will be a good investment, or else it is called gambling and you can just go to the Casino.

Post: #6

(11-15-2012 12:51 PM)_GQ_ Wrote:  If you bought and held the Dow 100 years ago you'd have made quite a significant return on your investment. On average, holding stocks long term yields a return.

So buy the indexes and wait a 100 years ? What about if the DOW is priced in real money ? ie. gold. Then have you really made any money at all ?

Post: #7

It's because you say dumb things like

(11-15-2012 12:48 PM)SelfPaid Wrote:  since most people just loose doing that.

that people here are not taking you seriously, and is why I (and perhaps others) have no interest in watching whatever video you posted.

It's too bad because it might actually have useful information, but I'll never know because of the half-assed way you presented it...

Post: #8

(11-15-2012 01:01 PM)SelfPaid Wrote:  

(11-15-2012 12:55 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  What a ridiculous assertion. Go talk to any investors that made a fortune off of Iomega, 3M, or Mac.

Do you actualy make money true the stock market ?
If not why should I listen to you?

I have a diverse portfolio ranging from dividend yielding stocks, to REITs, to a Roth IRA I contribute to. Given the state of the market there's currently a lot of swing but over the last 5 years I'm up about 5%, and yes I do get quarterly dividends.

But hey, don't listen to me, go ahead and sit on your gold with every other paranoid doomsday scenario fanboy. You can quote all the federal defecit stats you want. I look at GDP per capita, not defecits, no matter how dire the forecast. When shit tanks I'll have a hefty cash reserve to buy in when everyone else is cutting loose. See ya on the other side

Post: #9

(11-15-2012 01:36 PM)christpuncher Wrote:  It's because you say dumb things like

(11-15-2012 12:48 PM)SelfPaid Wrote:  since most people just loose doing that.

that people here are not taking you seriously, and is why I (and perhaps others) have no interest in watching whatever video you posted.

It's too bad because it might actually have useful information, but I'll never know because of the half-assed way you presented it...

Thank you for beeing honest but people who are not taking me seriously is not doing anything to my daily earnings.

It's you're choice if you want to listen to what i say or not I don't realy give a fuck since I am fine.

This thread is not about what my opinion is but about the facts's and the fact is most people loose in the stock market and I make money. plus other people are making money people who in my opinion are worth listening to

if you don't want to listen and learn I don't have any value for you so you can ignore what I have to say. Simple ase that

Post: #10

statistically the more you trade the worse you do. The buy and hold method has been proven to work over the long-term. The charts don't lie.

Post: #11

(11-15-2012 01:50 PM)SelfPaid Wrote:  

(11-15-2012 01:36 PM)christpuncher Wrote:  It's because you say dumb things like

(11-15-2012 12:48 PM)SelfPaid Wrote:  since most people just loose doing that.

that people here are not taking you seriously, and is why I (and perhaps others) have no interest in watching whatever video you posted.

It's too bad because it might actually have useful information, but I'll never know because of the half-assed way you presented it...

Thank you for beeing honest but people who are not taking me seriously is not doing anything to my daily earnings.

It's you're choice if you want to listen to what i say or not I don't realy give a fuck since I am fine.

This thread is not about what my opinion is but about the facts's and the fact is most people loose in the stock market and I make money. plus other people are making money people who in my opinion are worth listening to

if you don't want to listen and learn I don't have any value for you so you can ignore what I have to say. Simple ase that

Hey that's cool man, just cut it with the extreme-ism talk. There's no need to go on a board and blast "Why buying and holding stocks is for suckers."

You want to learn something? Fine, learn from the many who have made a goddamn fortune off of stocks. I own precious metals, stocks, mutual funds, etc. You won't find me making blanket statements like "GOLD IS FOR SUCKERS". If you buy into gold 100% yeah I think you're making a mistake, but only time will tell.

If you can validate your opinion and tell us WHY we should learn from you, then you'd probably get a more receptive response.

A proofread over your posts for spelling and grammar wouldn't hurt either, just sayin'.

Post: #12

If you make the assertion that "buying and holding is for suckers," you should naturally expect some of the guys here to question your wisdom -- unless you're willing to post your real-time trades to prove them wrong.

Post: #13

SelfPaid,

As someone that has successfully implemented day-trading strategies to build your location-independent lifestyle, I’m curious if you’ve read the book “The Intelligent Investor” by Benjamin Graham. I just finished it, and everything he in there seemed to make a lot of sense intrinsically and was also very well researched and proven.

If you’ve read it, I’m curious to hear your thoughts, since day trading seems antithetical to his approach and advice.

Here’s info about the book for reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intelligent_Investor

Post: #14

(11-15-2012 02:12 PM)zoom Wrote:  statistically the more you trade the worse you do. The buy and hold method has been proven to work over the long-term. The charts don't lie.

The questions have you been succesful with it ?
You understand that you have to Buy and Hold at the right Time right. Most People Buy at the Top and Hold to the bottom. So there are smarter way's to do it where you cane get much Creater Returns than buying and Holding.

Don't you think if it was this easy that everybody would be Rich who owns a stuck and mutual Fund. What happend a few years ago?

I want you to do you're Own Research and think fore you'rself instead of releating Things that other People told you.

Test you're Strategy and See if it Works if it does cool fore you if not Maybe you Need to change things that is what this Post is about.

About showing alternatives to what is in Most peoples Head. Because like I Said Most People actualy Loose so doing the opposite is Almost always a Great idea

Post: #15

(11-15-2012 02:18 PM)Smitty Wrote:  If you make the assertion that "buying and holding is for suckers," you should naturally expect some of the guys here to question your wisdom -- unless you're willing to post your real-time trades to prove them wrong.

I made a Good Trade today and I Trade everyday but I don't feel the Need to Post Trades here or proove myself I get the Results I want so i am ok.
I have Tested my Strategies and I know that they work if you think that Buy and Hold Works fore you Great than do it.... I don't think it will but I am happy for People if ist would.

Post: #16

I do appreciate your advice. I looked at the video but it seemed like a long sales pitch. Are there any other videos/resources that you recommend?

(11-15-2012 05:09 PM)SelfPaid Wrote:  

(11-15-2012 02:12 PM)zoom Wrote:  statistically the more you trade the worse you do. The buy and hold method has been proven to work over the long-term. The charts don't lie.

The questions have you been succesful with it ?
You understand that you have to Buy and Hold at the right Time right. Most People Buy at the Top and Hold to the bottom. So there are smarter way's to do it where you cane get much Creater Returns than buying and Holding.

Don't you think if it was this easy that everybody would be Rich who owns a stuck and mutual Fund. What happend a few years ago?

I want you to do you're Own Research and think fore you'rself instead of releating Things that other People told you.

Test you're Strategy and See if it Works if it does cool fore you if not Maybe you Need to change things that is what this Post is about.

About showing alternatives to what is in Most peoples Head. Because like I Said Most People actualy Loose so doing the opposite is Almost always a Great idea

Post: #17

(11-15-2012 03:54 PM)nmmoooreland20 Wrote:  SelfPaid,

As someone that has successfully implemented day-trading strategies to build your location-independent lifestyle, I’m curious if you’ve read the book “The Intelligent Investor” by Benjamin Graham. I just finished it, and everything he in there seemed to make a lot of sense intrinsically and was also very well researched and proven.

If you’ve read it, I’m curious to hear your thoughts, since day trading seems antithetical to his approach and advice.

Here’s info about the book for reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intelligent_Investor

I haven't read it but to be honest with you what helped me was Not a Book but the Realisation that everything is the Same buying Cheap and Selling High. It doesen't matter if you Trade Cars, Computers, Stocks what ever you Need to know 2 Things.

1. When is the Price expsensive
2. When is the Price Cheap

And than you Buy the Price when it's Cheap and sell it when it is expensive. Sounds to simple? Maybe it is but it works and Took me more than 1 Year and 4000 houers to understand and implement succefully.

Everytime Before I go to bed I Check the High Points and the Low Points and decide when the Price is Good and Cheap to Buy and where my exit is. Offcourse that is the simplified Version but I don't realy do more than that. I am nothing Special I just Tested and Tested and Tested until i found what Works for mee.

But if you have a dayjob and you want to earn some Casflow Own the Shares you allready Own the Video might be of value to you since ist Shows how to do that.

I Personaly choose Not to since I get the Results I want True my Own Trading and my Capital Manager Trading for me so I don't Need to learn such Strategies. Since I Discoverd my Own which is like I Set just buying Cheap and under valued and getting into Cash at the end of each day.

I am a Big Fan of Warren Buffets Approach to Company's so if the Book teaches you how to find thinks that are undervalued and you choose to Invest Long Term than that might help you Out. I Personaly have had better Results with getting into Cash at the end of each day so that's why I do it.

By the Way I am just starting Out with the Location Independent Lifestyle with my First move to Brazil I am Not that experienced with living in different countries ect. From 17 to now 22 I just focussed on learning and Setting up my Life so that I cane Take Advantage of the oppertunities the World Hase to offer so it's Not like I have been Traveling since 10 years or something I am just starting Out.

Hope it helps

PS if you want a more Details Awnser I Need to know what you're Goals are I don't know everything but I might be able to help you.

Post: #18

(11-15-2012 05:16 PM)zoom Wrote:  I do appreciate your advice. I looked at the video but it seemed like a long sales pitch. Are there any other videos/resources that you recommend?

(11-15-2012 05:09 PM)SelfPaid Wrote:  

(11-15-2012 02:12 PM)zoom Wrote:  statistically the more you trade the worse you do. The buy and hold method has been proven to work over the long-term. The charts don't lie.

The questions have you been succesful with it ?
You understand that you have to Buy and Hold at the right Time right. Most People Buy at the Top and Hold to the bottom. So there are smarter way's to do it where you cane get much Creater Returns than buying and Holding.

Don't you think if it was this easy that everybody would be Rich who owns a stuck and mutual Fund. What happend a few years ago?

I want you to do you're Own Research and think fore you'rself instead of releating Things that other People told you.

Test you're Strategy and See if it Works if it does cool fore you if not Maybe you Need to change things that is what this Post is about.

About showing alternatives to what is in Most peoples Head. Because like I Said Most People actualy Loose so doing the opposite is Almost always a Great idea

Yes I am Sorry for that I realised that After Watching the Video Almost ti the end.

But that doesen't mean what he sayes does Not work. What he is Talking about is Covered Call writting and you can find some Free resources on Youtube about it. I Personaly don't do it but it is an interresting Strategy since you reduce you're Risk by *renting* Out the Shares you Own .

The best Thing with thinks like that is to either find Someone who is succesful at it and Listen to what he Hase to say and implement it. Or Test it you 'reself on a Free Demo Account and Try to learn the Skill and Start small.

Post: #19

I agree that the buy and hold strategy is doomed to fail now. It worked in the past. But if you bought and held in 2000 until now you are still under water on the S&P. If you were tracking the NASDAQ you are still down about 60%. Not factoring inflation as well. If you were a buyer and holder of anything on the NIKKEI prior to 1990 then you are probably down about 80%.

Point is the bull market of 25 years is long over now. Looks to me like the trader will be the one who makes money. I'm not saying day trader, but more likely a swing trader. You will have to make moves every couple weeks or months. I think this is the strategy for the next decade until everything is smoothed out. The longer they kick the can down the road the more choppier the markets will be.

And for you guys that like the buy and hold and collect dividends I suggest you look into Asian stocks. There yields are twice if not triple what most american companies pay. The canadian oil companies all pay a pretty hefty dividend as well. Not as great as the trusts used to pay out but you won't have to sit on it for 20 years to make your original investment back.

Post: #20

I think that buying and holding works for some industries. The blue-chip stocks usually have consistent growth and pay out a good dividend. Food companies are good to own in for the long-term because everyone needs to eat. In 2008 the food companies didn't lose that much value, especially compared to other stocks.

Post: #21

Diversification is crucial to any successful investing strategy.

Post: #22

You guys are talking about stocks as if they're all the same.

If you really dig up some information about the actual company you can strategize from there. For instance, I currently hold GE stock and I'll probably buy more. I'm not willing to bet against American Companies like GE anytime soon. It pays a dividend. This isn't some flighty tech company fresh out of Silicon Valley (those days are long gone anyway) If you do some research into GE you can understand why I would invest.

Then there are companies like Starwood. I bought into Starwood several years ago and sold last year after the price tripled. I made some great money on the sale. Not day trading by any means; I sat on an asset for a couple years and cashed in when I realized the numbers are in my favor. Has the price gone up even more? Yep, but I don't have any regrets. Starwood is a hospitality company and one thing I know is those fuckers are always buying and selling each other out, although it looks like Starwood is leading the pack. Because of what I know of the company, I buy and sell accordingly.

There's strategy in managing stocks, you just have to do your homework, but that's probably too much work for most investors so they just stick with mutual funds and sit on it. There's nothing wrong with that as long as you diversify.

Post: #23

I just bought 20k worth of Skullcandy on Thursday I think it was. Im down about $800 so far. I'm riding this bitch out till the end. No way am I selling. If anything I will buy more if it goes down more.

A Fool And His Money Are Soon Parted

Post: #24

(11-15-2012 07:42 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  You guys are talking about stocks as if they're all the same.

If you really dig up some information about the actual company you can strategize from there. For instance, I currently hold GE stock and I'll probably buy more. I'm not willing to bet against American Companies like GE anytime soon. It pays a dividend. This isn't some flighty tech company fresh out of Silicon Valley (those days are long gone anyway) If you do some research into GE you can understand why I would invest.

Then there are companies like Starwood. I bought into Starwood several years ago and sold last year after the price tripled. I made some great money on the sale. Not day trading by any means; I sat on an asset for a couple years and cashed in when I realized the numbers are in my favor. Has the price gone up even more? Yep, but I don't have any regrets. Starwood is a hospitality company and one thing I know is those fuckers are always buying and selling each other out, although it looks like Starwood is leading the pack. Because of what I know of the company, I buy and sell accordingly.

There's strategy in managing stocks, you just have to do your homework, but that's probably too much work for most investors so they just stick with mutual funds and sit on it. There's nothing wrong with that as long as you diversify.

^^Spoken like a true Peter Lynch disciple.

I know someone who got in on Chipotle way back when they started. Same guy made a killing on Apple as well, got in years ago when they were trading at like $70 or something, and he invested a significant amount of money.

Post: #25

(11-15-2012 07:43 PM)murrb Wrote:  I just bought 20k worth of Skullcandy on Thursday I think it was. Im down about $800 so far. I'm riding this bitch out till the end. No way am I selling. If anything I will buy more if it goes down more.

A Fool And His Money Are Soon Parted

Dollar cost averaging. I got in on Sprint last year at about $1.90 a share, they've really turned things around.