Post: #1

It has come to my interest the whole idea of stock investing. Getting positive returns through the understanding of a market/company is something i see myself doing and is a job that can be done easily from anywhere in the world.

So the question is, do you invest in stocks? How do you do it and how much did you initially invest vs how much return did that gave you.

E-trading looks pretty cool. Research is easy in this whole subject but personal experience beats any new report or review.

Post: #2

(01-11-2016 09:43 PM)joecolombia Wrote:  It has come to my interest the whole idea of stock investing. Getting positive returns through the understanding of a market/company is something i see myself doing and is a job that can be done easily from anywhere in the world.

So the question is, do you invest in stocks? How do you do it and how much did you initially invest vs how much return did that gave you.

E-trading looks pretty cool. Research is easy in this whole subject but personal experience beats any new report or review.

The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham is apparently a must read for anyone wanting to invest in the markets.

I have only a superficial knowledge of finance and want to start investing my money rather than just have it sit so I downloaded it on Kindle.

I'd suggest reading it first and go from there.

Post: #3

The stock market is rigged to get your money, only a small fraction of people make money of it. Those people generally have connections or insider information.

Post: #4

Plenty of resources here, do a search and get reading.

The Intelligent Investor is a great starting point if you don't know where else to start.

The hardest and costliest thing is to find out what type of investor you are. That will only come with time.

Not to be facetious, but to get specific answers you need to ask specific questions.

Post: #5

http://www.investopedia.com is a good starting point. Go through all of the tutorials. That will give you a baseline of knowledge.

Be warned, the markets are no different than a high stakes poker table. If you aren't sure who the fish is, it's you. Decide from the start how much time you see yourself investing into investing. Personally, I live and breathe this shit. Probably safe to say that I've averaged 4 hrs/day on learning about the markets for the past four to five years. That's over 5,000 hours. If you're not willing to put in the hours, stick to dollar cost averaging into an index ETF and don't try to time the market.

Post: #6

(01-11-2016 11:54 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  The stock market is rigged to get your money, only a small fraction of people make money of it. Those people generally have connections or insider information.

It's a two sided market, how's it rigged?

Post: #7

Rudebwoy, do you look at company financials before buying a stock? Do you look into the inter workings, the cash to debt ratios, and the performance year-on-year? Look into quarterly reports. Look into press releases and sector growth/decline. Some people have totally no risk tolerance, and that's fine. However everything in life is a risk, and the pay offs are not bad if you do your homework.

There are so many ways to invest too. Stock picking is super basic, but once you get into options and financial vehicles that aren't completely mainstream, there are other ways to seriously make money.

How I would recommend you start is open a self-directed trading account at a major bank. You can load it up with some money and get started. Before that, I would paper trade for a couple weeks to a month on sites like marketwatch.com where you can get a feel for the processes, understand terminology and going long/short on some stocks of your choosing. I recommend playing with (losing) some real money though, because just as with play money in poker, you don't know how your emotions will be when it comes to the real thing until you hold a position.

Some rules that are widely accepted by many successful traders and investors I generally follow include the following: Have 5% in liquid cash for opportunities that arise. I generally look at 65% equities and their equivalents. I do about 10% forex. 20% can be in bonds or more secure holdings such as mutuals or ETFs. This ratio will be change based on your risk tolerance. I honestly don't care about losing money, you might. Therefore equities may make up a smaller percentage, where as mutuals and ETFs make up a larger percentage. I do not go above 10% of my portfolio in one position, and it generally stays around 5%. There are ways to be disciplined in the markets too.

Jump in, its a fun game, but it can be addicting.

Post: #8

(01-11-2016 11:54 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  The stock market is rigged to get your money, only a small fraction of people make money of it. Those people generally have connections or insider information.

It's "rigged" in the sense that you have hedge funds and investment houses that have access to supercomputers and an army of quants writing complex trading algorithems in addition to, yes, inside information. These are the 'small fraction of people you mention.'

A day trader obviously cannot compete with that with his scottrade, e-trade, trade-king account.

However, the whole 'rigged' thing is a bit overstated. Everyone has access to the vast majority of data that any of the aforementioned players have.

You can still make a decent return on your investments if done properly and avoid day trading. I'm not finished with the book but The Intelligent Investor lays out the difference between the speculator and the investor almost immediately in the first chapter. Yes it's rigged towards lone wolf speculators but the fact is is that if you due your due diligence and invest for the long term (i.e. >1year) you should be owning shares in companies that actually make money and not penny stocks. People were saying back in the 20s that the market was rigged and that only those with connections could benefit from the markets.

When people are referring to the capital markets as 'casinos' they are referring to speculators speculating and not investors investing. There is a difference.

If you want big returns from the market, either get directly into the financial industry and work at a hedge fund or start a very successful business, become an accredited investor, and invest in a professionally managed hedge fund and benefit from the 'rigged system.' A dude day trading from his e-trade account "on the beach" is NOT going to be beating the market on a consistent basis unless, maybe, he worked at a hedge fund and is a financial genius. In that case, he sure as shit is not using e-trade.

Post: #9

(01-11-2016 09:43 PM)joecolombia Wrote:  It has come to my interest the whole idea of stock investing. Getting positive returns through the understanding of a market/company is something i see myself doing and is a job that can be done easily from anywhere in the world.

So the question is, do you invest in stocks? How do you do it and how much did you initially invest vs how much return did that gave you.

E-trading looks pretty cool. Research is easy in this whole subject but personal experience beats any new report or review.

Read William O'Neill's book "How to Make money in Stocks" read it backward and forward until you understand it.

Read Mark Minervini's book. He was a US stock market investing champion.

"Paper trade" for at least 2 or 3 months and be honest. You will see that at first you make bad decisions and will lose money.

Most likely when you start trading with real money you will lose money on most trades. You will start with rules but emotions will convince you to stretch or break your rules. Therefore, you will lose more money than if you had stuck to the rules that you broke.

if you're like 99% of most people, you won't get good at stock trading until you've done it a few years and lost money more than made money. The harsh reality of how the market works and your decreasing trading accounts will finally train you to throw out all emotion and become a cold blooded rule follower of an investing , your own investing, discipline.

Once you blindly follow your rules, ruthlessly cut all losses short, start taking profits and mechanically set stop losses on all stocks that you are going to let "run" then you will start to make money.

Having said that, it is possible to get 'lucky' and pick one or two winners that you just buy and let run, but the vast majority of investors don't or can't do this.

Post: #10

(01-11-2016 09:43 PM)joecolombia Wrote:  It has come to my interest the whole idea of stock investing. Getting positive returns through the understanding of a market/company is something i see myself doing and is a job that can be done easily from anywhere in the world.

Your interest is probably a sign that the U.S. market has topped. Thanks for that signal.

In all seriousness, read "The 3 Simple Rules of Investing" and/or "The 3% Signal" and avoid pissing away your money and your time in search of a pipe dream. Spend the time you would have wasted in the gym or on Game.

If you really want to know how to make money on Wall Street, read Duff's "The Buy Side."

Post: #11

Download the app Robinhood. Good for small investments. Your gains won't be eaten up by fees. Buy blue chip stocks that have had solid growth for over a decade. Buy and hold strategy. Set up an automatic transfer of at $20 a week or more. Ride out the dips and in 20 years you'll be better off than 80% of Americans.

Post: #12

i invest mainly through a mix of fundamentals and technical . I have feelings for certain stocks and the increase or decrease depending on information i look for. As far as I know im the only one that have these feelings and have come to trust it. I also believe people who are too logical or too smart shouldnt invest in the stock market because they always come out with losses and try to learn something that doesn't make sense such as my feelings for a certain stock. This is my experience alot of "smart" people believe your best return you can get in a year is 12% which is crazy since you can make so much more. My first ever stock was a pharmaceutical stock that I had when i was in 8th grade. It one day tripled and 500 turned into 1500. This was my expectations of the stock market and its in my opinion that people make there own expectations instead of reading and researching so hard about other opinions and other "smart' people who made it. WE all have different minds theres no way another person can have a correct way of investing. You can pull some information you feel like someone SIMILAR to you has made but I can't see we can pull information from warren buffet when our personality, aptitudes, or even inclinations are so far apart. my two cents.

Post: #13

+1 for Robinhood, one of the many things I found through RVF. This place is wonderful.

Post: #14

There's something fishy about all these advice books on stock market. Had there been a mathematical formula, there would not have been a need for them. Looks like there are too many variables to track, hence it's more of a stochastic process?

The other thing that comes to my mind is: the writers of the books how to game market, had they really known how do it, they would't have to write the books since the would have been filthy rich?

Post: #15

"Nobody, I don't care if you're Warren Buffett or if you're Jimmy Buffett, Nobody knows if a stock is gonna go up, down, sideways, or in fuckin circles"

Post: #16

Practice for at least a year. Also know how to read both technical charts, economic news, and company financial statements. The latter is difficult because deriving any meaningful analysis requires a solid knowledge of corporate finance.

Also start with Martin Armstrong. The socrates system is available as a beta now and I'm very impressed.


Where you're trying to get is that you need to figure out a strategy which produces returns above the market, and that not everyone else has figured out yet. The problem with almost every strategy is that if it actually is good then institutional investors such as Hedge Funds will figure it out and start trading by it. Get enough people doing it and those movements you used to be able to profit from cease to occur. You need to continually research new trading strategies.

Also don't get TOO sidetracked into doing things like analyzing company news, analyzing earnings, etc. As one manager at very well performing family fund told me, "People use that bullshit about a stock being 'overvalued' or 'undervalued' as an excuse to justify them being wrong. At the end of the day its all supply and demand".

Like he said, at the end of the day you need to understand market psychology to where you can recognize strong trends and intuitively recognize turning points. I'd recommend martin armstrong's ideas as a good conceptual framework. Actually developing those skills isn't something you can shortcut. Be prepared to practice for at least a year before you bet any substantial money.


oh...almost forgot. Don't trust what people say. One example. I got to see a presentation from one CFO where he was claiming exponential growth for his business, 3X the footpring (for a retail chain) in the next few years. If you actually think it's bullshit. While I do see room for some modest growth, his growth ideas would involve this chain growing to the size of Starbucks or Chipotle.......and this product is just a bit too niche for that to happen. The stock has been plunging. It's not so much because the business won't grow, but because someone that obviously full of shit produces a harsh negative reaction from investors and he is punished accordingly.

Post: #17

I've always been interested in stocks and investing. Over the last year, I've been slowly learning bit by bit. In the next few months, I'll be opening a tradings account. The thing is I've decided not to get too heavy into it. Mainly because of the time you'd have to invest if you really want to get deep into it. My interest in it only goes as far as making some extra money on the side and as a small hobby.

Post: #18

I actually started with this years ago. The book has got a right wing bent to it.

Stock Investing for Dummies.

http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Investing-Du...or+dummies

Post: #19

Crossing Wall Street is a great resource.

The investor documents his annual investment strategy and shows his buy list.

Post: #20

(01-11-2016 11:54 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  The stock market is rigged to get your money, only a small fraction of people make money of it. Those people generally have connections or insider information.

Trading yes but when it comes to conservative long term investing it is not a bad play.

Post: #21

(01-12-2016 05:44 PM)brob Wrote:  Download the app Robinhood. Good for small investments. Your gains won't be eaten up by fees. Buy blue chip stocks that have had solid growth for over a decade. Buy and hold strategy. Set up an automatic transfer of at $20 a week or more. Ride out the dips and in 20 years you'll be better off than 80% of Americans.

i`ve read a bit about that app. How well does it work? since they say it takes some time to read your investments, and you know, real time purchasing makes a huge difference in regards with pricing, thus winings.

e trading seems like the way to go in 2016.

I am adding all the books that you guys have said into queu. i hope they are amateur friendly.

Post: #22

Does anyone here have experience with interactive brokers? Their commissions are exceptionally low for the systems you get, and you're able to trade on margin through the forex and futures markets which is super attractive to me.

Post: #23

(01-13-2016 11:49 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  Does anyone here have experience with interactive brokers? Their commissions are exceptionally low for the systems you get, and you're able to trade on margin through the forex and futures markets which is super attractive to me.

I've used them for years and their commissions are very competitive.

The trading platform is good, not as good as TOS but not that far behind, there is a steep learning curve on the platform but their site is full of tutorials. If there's any features you want that aren't currently on the platform you can put in a request, they seem pretty good at implementing them.

The other good thing about IB which might not apply to you is they make trading the US market from outside the US very easy, you can have your accounts base currency set to many different currencies and change it at any time. You can also deposit and withdraw funds in different countries as long as you have a bank account in those countries.

They do have a US $10k minimum to open an account, or at least they used to, I've not checked in a while. Once the account is open it can drop below this. That might limit some, I think $10k is probably a good minimum to start trading with anyway.

Post: #24

Trading electronically is the only way to go in 2016 unless you are in private banking.

I'm with IB too. Note that they are NOT for the rank amateur. They will not hold your hand. They can and will auto liquidate you in event of a margin call.

Post: #25

I only trade on the American exchanges even though I'm in Canada. I'm also under 25 so they offer a promotion in which your minimum is only $3,000. I think I'll be signing up with them today.