Post: #26

(09-05-2012 05:41 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Fatherless means dude took off and has nothing to do with his kids not superdad (me) who makes decisions and cares for his child more than anyone else will.

Or mom who keeps dad away from children.

Getting married doesn't guarantee a man shit.

Post: #27

Quote: Once she accused him of having a girlfriend and he said “Evelyn, you may not have cured me of drinking, but you damn sure cured me of women.” And he meant it.

Best part

Quote:I spent this weekend watching every college game on TV.

Close second

Post: #28

(09-05-2012 05:31 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Honestly, what woman would want to have children with a man unwilling to marry them? She is going to carry a baby to term, potentially risk her life during delivery, need your financial support and protection while she raises the child - and you aren't even willing to marry her because someday she might divorce you and you lose some possessions? She is all in when she gets pregnant. It is only reasonable that she wants the same commitment in return.

Getting married lets her know you are in it together and that you mean it. It is the same statement to society as well (not that I care too much what others think, but she will). Now don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of no fault divorce necessarily, or indefinite alimony, so I can understand certain objections. Our laws need reform. If you really want protection, put your assets into a trust before you get married.

I wonder about this place sometimes. This argument is the same thing as wanting a feminine, demure, attractive girl and bitching about assuming the masculine role and buying her a drink or dinner. This forum loves to bitch about how feminists have changed women, yet balks at assuming traditional males roles like husband or father. In the long run, raising successful children in a loving family will be 100 times more satisfying than just banging sluts in one night stands and ending up old and alone.

If you don't want children then by all means don't get married. I understand that argument.

The stability and tradition of a loving two parent household, however, is important to raise well adjusted children - and that means living together for the long term, and that doesn't mean her divorcing you and taking the children out of your life either. You need to find the right girl.

Here are some stats:

-63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census)
-85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes
-71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes
-70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes
-85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home
-Boys who grow up in father-absent homes are more likely that those in father-present homes to have trouble establishing appropriate sex roles and gender identity.

Why dog on marriage? To raise children a healthy marriage is important. If that's not your thing and never will be, then game on player.

I'm willing to bet you are a woman in real life or you were raised by a single mother.

Post: #29

(09-05-2012 05:51 PM)SnakeEyes Wrote:  I'm willing to bet you are a woman in real life or you were raised by a single mother.

Sorry SnakeEyes.

@eMech, respect for being a good dad and putting your child first.

@MikeCF, There are no guarantees in life. You make the best decision you can regarding children (and marriage is about starting a family). There is a 100% chance you will get old and lose your muscles. Why workout?

Post: #30

(09-05-2012 03:10 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 03:04 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 02:57 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 02:46 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  What I appreciate is that the posters to Donlak's piece challenged him also. He took a specific topic, marriage, and gave a generic "something bad can happen to you any day you leave the house" answer as to why men should marry. You have to do better than that - you have to lay out what you think the benefits are. Saying "real alphas don't fear marriage" doesn't really provide a solid argument for his position.

The problem isn't risk. It's risk without any payoff. There's a huge cost to never getting in cars, or to never leaving your house.

The question is - what is the cost to not getting married? If you don't want kids, I see none at all.

Personally, I'd like to raise children at some point, and I don't see any good alternative to marriage for that. That aside, I see no reason to get married.

Raising children is the ONLY reason I can see getting married. I think we should try to give kids a shot at having a nuclear family, and if you end up separated/divorced, you do your best to still be the best dad you can be. But that's it - you must have a burning desire to be a father. I know some guys have discussed simply knocking a chick up without attempting to marry her, and simply going to court to work out custody. I get where they're coming from, but I think it's better to be under the same roof with your kid in the early years, and truly establishing yourself as a dominant figure in your child's life. You can't influence them the same way if you're not there from the beginning, every day.

Even if you could magically give birth to a child tomorrow, with no woman involved... How would you support yourself and raise the kid at the same time? You'd have to consign the kid to childcare, a far worse fate. If single motherhood is bad, I can't imagine a daycare baby being any better.

How to support a kid by yourself or with joint custody? Easy. Build your career in your 20s, start making six figures. Knock up a woman who isn't on minimum wage. When it comes time to set child support the mother will get imputed wages because she has proven ability to work. Any decent lawyer could argue to
Impute more than minimum wage and somewhat close to previous earning power.

When it comes time to settle visitation, demand demand demand more time. Once preschool starts childcare becomes cheaper.

Cliffs: don't have kids in your 20s as a man

Post: #31

(09-05-2012 05:31 PM)durangotang Wrote:  I wonder about this place sometimes. This argument is the same thing as wanting a feminine, demure, attractive girl and bitching about assuming the masculine role and buying her a drink or dinner. This forum loves to bitch about how feminists have changed women, yet balks at assuming traditional males roles like husband or father. In the long run, raising successful children in a loving family will be 100 times more satisfying than just banging sluts in one night stands and ending up old and alone.

This makes no sense at all.

You say that laws need to be changed yet condemn men for not wanting to stick a gun to their heads and spin their luck.

You talk about all of us wanting more traditional roles yet fail to see that women initiate divorce far more than men. I would expect marriage would be more conceivable to more men if you had better than a 50% chance of it working out and not losing your retirement.

Trusts? Yeah, good luck with that. A good lawyer will find your assets. Most guys won't have enough to even think about trusts and offshore accounts. They are simply happy working towards a 1k a month pension with social security until the wife divorces them and takes half their pension even though she sat on her fat ass eating bonbon's all day.

You think marriage is needed to raise healthy kids? Lot's of fucked up kids with parents that are still married. I would rather my son know the truth about marriage before he gets married and finds out the hard way.

Ah, the ending up alone if you don't get married and have kids. Feminist bullshit doesn't belong on this forum. Next, you will be telling us to "Man Up!"

Post: #32

(09-05-2012 06:02 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Ah, the ending up alone if you don't get married and have kids. Feminist bullshit doesn't belong on this forum.

Trust me, that isn't feminist bullshit. Without a good family, getting old (70+) is infinitely more lonely. I have seen it more than once.

As for everything else, what do you want me to say that there is no risk and only reward? Doesn't exist.

Post: #33

(09-05-2012 05:54 PM)durangotang Wrote:  @MikeCF, There are no guarantees in life. You make the best decision you can regarding children (and marriage is about starting a family). There is a 100% chance you will get old and lose your muscles. Why workout?

The best decision is not to get married.

Women file for divorce in 70% of cases.

Women cheat as often as men.

If the baby's mama is not married, then she can't sue for alimony (although judges do know how to bake alimony into child support).

A woman who demands marriage doesn't have any skin in the game.

When she loses the power to get alimony by remaining unmarried, she keeps that skin the game because she knows if she fucks up, you can walk without having to write her huge checks.

But 99% of legit women demand marriage before having babies.

So men have to what they have to do. (In my case, understand that the joys of fatherhood are unlikely.)

Post: #34

(09-05-2012 06:06 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Trust me, that isn't feminist bullshit. Without a good family, getting old (70+) is infinitely more lonely. I have seen it more than once.

So you want to have children because you're afraid of dying alone.

Ergo the post's title applies to you.

Post: #35

(09-05-2012 06:06 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Trust me, that isn't feminist bullshit. Without a good family, getting old (70+) is infinitely more lonely. I have seen it more than once.

As for everything else, what do you want me to say that there is no risk and only reward? Doesn't exist.

You need to work on your mindset some. Do you think your wife will be alive for as long as you are? Do you think your family will be around you all the time giving you comfort when they have their own lives and families to deal with?

The people I see alone in their 70's gave everything to their families. They didn't have anything outside to keep them interested. They didn't keep up their social circles because family came first. No hobbies because they were busy working all the time and raising kids.

I don't see marriage as a risk that needs to be taken at all. I can have kids without getting married. They will be far healthier and happier then most. I don't think El Mech's baby girl is unhappy or scarred for life when she knows he puts her above everything else. A lot of parents don't even have time for their kids.

Besides, there are no lonely 70 year old men with money in Thailand.

Post: #36

(09-05-2012 06:09 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 06:06 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Trust me, that isn't feminist bullshit. Without a good family, getting old (70+) is infinitely more lonely. I have seen it more than once.

So you want to have children because you're afraid of dying alone.

Ergo the post's title applies to you.

Fallacious argument Mike. I said:

"In the long run, raising successful children in a loving family will be 100 times more satisfying than just banging sluts in one night stands and ending up old and alone."

At a certain point the sex drive will wind down in all of us. When you are seventy, knowing this, wouldn't it be more satisfying to have built a family and a legacy? Who wants to be lonely?

Does that make me a pussy? You are not alpha unless your lonely - MikeCF.

Post: #37

(09-05-2012 06:18 PM)durangotang Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 06:09 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 06:06 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Trust me, that isn't feminist bullshit. Without a good family, getting old (70+) is infinitely more lonely. I have seen it more than once.

So you want to have children because you're afraid of dying alone.

Ergo the post's title applies to you.

Fallacious argument Mike. I said:

"In the long run, raising successful children in a loving family will be 100 times more satisfying than just banging sluts in one night stands and ending up old and alone."

At a certain point the sex drive will wind down in all of us. When you are seventy, knowing this, wouldn't it be more satisfying to have built a family and a legacy? Who wants to be lonely?

Does that make me a pussy? You are not alpha unless your lonely - MikeCF.

I've had plenty of relationships lasting more than one night. I am surrounded by good friends. I regularly host house guests.

If anything, there are more people who'd like to see me (and whom I'd like to see) than there is time.

So I don't need to essentially force people (kids) to pay attention to me.

Get involved in your community and build some strong friendships and you won't die a lonely old man.

Post: #38

(09-05-2012 06:18 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Who wants to be lonely?

I think what would scare me more would be revolving my entire life around family and not continuing to develop myself and my own enjoyments. You would be surprised at how lonely someone can be even when they are surrounded by people.

Post: #39

(09-05-2012 06:23 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  So I don't need to essentially force people (kids) to pay attention to me.

Get involved in your community and build some strong friendships and you won't die a lonely old man.

Blood is thicker than water.

And creating a family has nothing to due with forcing children to pay attention to you. Were you raised by wolves?

Post: #40

Here's something to think about I'll try to explain..

When you have a kid to take care of and love that loves you back unconditionally it truly makes you realize how worthless your relationships with women really are. They don't love you. When I pull into her school after work you should see her light up. Good day, bad day no matter. Think back to what I said here when you have your own kids. If something is missing in your life and you don't know what it is it's probably this.

Post: #41

(09-05-2012 06:18 PM)durangotang Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 06:09 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 06:06 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Trust me, that isn't feminist bullshit. Without a good family, getting old (70+) is infinitely more lonely. I have seen it more than once.

So you want to have children because you're afraid of dying alone.

Ergo the post's title applies to you.

Fallacious argument Mike. I said:

"In the long run, raising successful children in a loving family will be 100 times more satisfying than just banging sluts in one night stands and ending up old and alone."

At a certain point the sex drive will wind down in all of us. When you are seventy, knowing this, wouldn't it be more satisfying to have built a family and a legacy? Who wants to be lonely?

Does that make me a pussy? You are not alpha unless your lonely - MikeCF.

Majority of parents when reach 70 with kids or without kids become lonely. If you are over 30, i doubt you are still living with your parents.

Post: #42

I partially agree with durangotang...

Frankly, I would be scared if the potential future mother of my children would not insist on marriage prior to getting pregnant. It would suggest that she is a short-term thinker. Maybe this is a remnant of Catholic memetic trash that contaminated my brain, but raising kids without a mother is out of question for me.

Having said that, I have very high standards. I would perform an enormous amount of due diligence, install a key-logger on her laptop, go to dinners at her parents' only to see what kind of values she has and how she gets along with her parents and other relatives. If she's American or Western European, I would almost certainly exclude her immediately from any long-term endeavor such as starting a family. Needless to say, I would start a family in a country where the laws are fair, and where the sexual markets favor men: a divorced mother is worth nothing in a place like Russia, she's invisible, nobody wants her.

I don't have kids, and I probably won't ever have kids. However, if I ever happen to have kids, it won't be because I am afraid of dying alone, but because I want to participate in life, which involves passing on the torch. Today we focus on making things, gadgets, stupid iPhones and shit, but we have forgotten that making great people is also a great accomplishment. I can see the allure of a long-term project like spawning and raising kids, and see them become successful adults of great character and moral quality. If they continue the cycle, part of me will live for generations in my descendants, but for that to be possible, patriarchy cannot be outlawed!

Post: #43

The divorce rate among college educated couples is lower, about 25%. Meanwhile, people here are promoting these convoluted paternity schemes for getting a kid and custody, as a sure thing.

I like the idea of impregnating women, sure, but spawning bastards seems like the trashiest thing possible. There's no getting around the fact that, a stable two-parent marriage is your best bet for raising healthy kids.

There was a guy at my work, Puerto Rican, who told me his dad was a traditional 'healer'... and a major player. Dude was actually the father of someone famous. Said he ended up dying alone, no one would care for him because he cared for no one his entire life. Not trying to scare anyone into not being a player, just saying you won't always get off scot-free.

(09-05-2012 06:02 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  You think marriage is needed to raise healthy kids? Lot's of fucked up kids with parents that are still married.

You don't understand the idea of statistics, do you?

Post: #44

(09-05-2012 06:33 PM)pitt Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 06:18 PM)durangotang Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 06:09 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 06:06 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Trust me, that isn't feminist bullshit. Without a good family, getting old (70+) is infinitely more lonely. I have seen it more than once.

So you want to have children because you're afraid of dying alone.

Ergo the post's title applies to you.

Fallacious argument Mike. I said:

"In the long run, raising successful children in a loving family will be 100 times more satisfying than just banging sluts in one night stands and ending up old and alone."

At a certain point the sex drive will wind down in all of us. When you are seventy, knowing this, wouldn't it be more satisfying to have built a family and a legacy? Who wants to be lonely?

Does that make me a pussy? You are not alpha unless your lonely - MikeCF.

Majority of parents when reach 70 with kids or without kids become lonely. If you are over 30, i doubt you are still living with your parents.

My mom is 70. She has a full time job in telling me that I have no clue how to run my business and telling me about all the shit I fucked up over the years (while making me delicious chicken parm) and a grand daughter that I provided for her that she can yell at me about also. If she gets bored gambling she can go pick her up whenever she wants.

Post: #45

Wow, great thread. Judging by my dad and stepdad I would not get married unless I was about to die. It sounds like some guys here need to experience it first hand and report back. Good luck!

The El Mechanico model Is definitely the way to go, share the kid with Mom but don't let the crazy bitch screw up the kid.

As for winding up lonely in your 70's, give me a break, it's called peace and quiet and some 19 year old nursing student giving you a sponge bath. The worst thing for an old man is an old woman.

Post: #46

(09-05-2012 06:52 PM)basilransom Wrote:  You don't understand the idea of statistics, do you?

I understand that statistics can be manipulated, do you?

Post: #47

This.. My kid. How could you not want one? Brat but my brat..
[attachment=7649]

Post: #48

Great picture El Mech. She has that El Mech "I am going to stick these fries up your ass" stare down.

Post: #49

(09-05-2012 07:16 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Great picture El Mech. She has that El Mech "I am going to stick these fries up your ass" stare down.

Thanks she's too much. i'm going to take the picture down in a few I just wanted to show her off a bit. She told me not to take her picture and was pissed..

Post: #50

(09-05-2012 07:22 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 07:16 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Great picture El Mech. She has that El Mech "I am going to stick these fries up your ass" stare down.

Thanks she's too much. i'm going to take the picture down in a few I just wanted to show her off a bit. She told me not to take her picture and was pissed..

Haha! Uh oh yeah you better get that down before she logs in