Post: #151

Mess O, it sounds like you are actually after a real, serious relationship, aren't you?

Post: #152

Mess o what are some of the conversations you are having? Specifcally.

Post: #153

Yeah, I'd like to start up a relationship with one, solid woman. I give serious praise to the 'plate-spinners' here, but I don't think that's what I aspire to, and even it were, it'd be outrageously unrealistic, given the issues I'm having. Now, I don't feel like I need this to 'complete' me, or any shit like that, but I do need more than what I've pulled so far.

On my dates, I have a wealth of different conversation topics, one of the most consistently popular being content from previous dates, experience on the apps and the like. Maybe I should stray away from that topic? Also, I consistently try to get here to talk about her own romantic history, as opposed to mine. More recently I've been putting more effort in getting the girls to qualify themselves, and I figure on the last couple of dates I was getting somewhere with that, but maybe an eagerness is still shining through. Believe me, I'm really putting that in the forefront as far as factors to work on, as well as maintaining aloofness and just plain not giving a fuck. Man, this last date, and one from a month ago, I'm sure an observer would've thought that we were a loving couple.

And back @ Cpt. Gh, yes, I'm quite seasoned at daygame, and need to put that platform back up front. It's totally true that the more you cruise the apps, the more you get dependent on that shit, and your ability to live-approach seriously erodes - almost as if the very skill can be represented in a physical manifestation, like an 'approach amulet' that's worn, and can subsequently be lost. I go back out into the field after all this online, and I seem to have literally lost the power to approach.

Post: #154

(01-22-2019 10:31 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  Yeah, I'd like to start up a relationship with one, solid woman. I give serious praise to the 'plate-spinners' here, but I don't think that's what I aspire to, and even it were, it'd be outrageously unrealistic, given the issues I'm having. Now, I don't feel like I need this to 'complete' me, or any shit like that, but I do need more than what I've pulled so far.

On my dates, I have a wealth of different conversation topics, one of the most consistently popular being content from previous dates, experience on the apps and the like. Maybe I should stray away from that topic? Also, I consistently try to get here to talk about her own romantic history, as opposed to mine. More recently I've been putting more effort in getting the girls to qualify themselves, and I figure on the last couple of dates I was getting somewhere with that, but maybe an eagerness is still shining through. Believe me, I'm really putting that in the forefront as far as factors to work on, as well as maintaining aloofness and just plain not giving a fuck. Man, this last date, and one from a month ago, I'm sure an observer would've thought that we were a loving couple.

And back @ Cpt. Gh, yes, I'm quite seasoned at daygame, and need to put that platform back up front. It's totally true that the more you cruise the apps, the more you get dependent on that shit, and your ability to live-approach seriously erodes - almost as if the very skill can be represented in a physical manifestation, like an 'approach amulet' that's worn, and can subsequently be lost. I go back out into the field after all this online, and I seem to have literally lost the power to approach.

I'm not an online veteran... and far from it... but I've personally never been a fan of talking about sexual history with women early... especially on the first date! Keep this in mind: Some of the women you're qualifying via these apps literally Bang 5 Dudes a month from them... and then they lie lie lie to you for the bulk of the Date... therefore killing ANY chance of developing attraction for you! You mentioned not wanting to be a plate-spinner... and that's cool... but in 2019 you somehow have to convey that you COULD be one... otherwise most these women won't give you a second thought... especially via dating apps.

From what you wrote... the conversations you're having simply cannot create attraction whatsoever... since you're putting the spotlight on her love life... and not your passions & aspirations! The type of Game you're running could make you a Husband via Social Circle easy if you have your life in order... and if you're leaning in that direction then it's cool... but for dating via apps this will not do my friend! And I strongly suggest meeting up with a Good Forum member to help you out on this. A repped member would give you some pointers on where things aren't working out for you very easy!

Post: #155

(01-22-2019 10:31 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  Yeah, I'd like to start up a relationship with one, solid woman. I give serious praise to the 'plate-spinners' here, but I don't think that's what I aspire to, and even it were, it'd be outrageously unrealistic, given the issues I'm having. Now, I don't feel like I need this to 'complete' me, or any shit like that, but I do need more than what I've pulled so far.

On my dates, I have a wealth of different conversation topics, one of the most consistently popular being content from previous dates, experience on the apps and the like. Maybe I should stray away from that topic? Also, I consistently try to get here to talk about her own romantic history, as opposed to mine. More recently I've been putting more effort in getting the girls to qualify themselves, and I figure on the last couple of dates I was getting somewhere with that, but maybe an eagerness is still shining through. Believe me, I'm really putting that in the forefront as far as factors to work on, as well as maintaining aloofness and just plain not giving a fuck. Man, this last date, and one from a month ago, I'm sure an observer would've thought that we were a loving couple.

And back @ Cpt. Gh, yes, I'm quite seasoned at daygame, and need to put that platform back up front. It's totally true that the more you cruise the apps, the more you get dependent on that shit, and your ability to live-approach seriously erodes - almost as if the very skill can be represented in a physical manifestation, like an 'approach amulet' that's worn, and can subsequently be lost. I go back out into the field after all this online, and I seem to have literally lost the power to approach.

Do you even want to know her history? I bet you can point a loaded gun to her head, and she will not tell you everything.

Accept that any girl at the age of 27, was 22 when Tinder became popular. That means, that if she has not settled down yet, and was dating, and even with some LTR in between, she would have had at least one date per week on average. And that is me being very conservative about the numbers.

Just do not even go there. A year ago I had a drunk honest talk with a fresh off the boat attractive Chinese student, and I can still not forget all the things she told me. And that was an innocent sweet looking 22-year-old.

Post: #156

(06-03-2018 08:17 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  My latest date, yesterday evening, I was very pleased with. Overall, it represented an ascendancy of the level of quality I've been able to pull. To be concise, I tried to make the best impression I could, within the scope of the couple of hours it went on for, all the while keeping certain things in mind . . . such as not really giving a fuck at all as to how it turns out, to be realistic as to the likelihood of it going anywhere, and perhaps most predominantly of all, to just have fun with it.

There was very little physical escalation throughout the bulk of the event, given her rather introverted body language, but the eye contact was quite strong, with me holding a stretch for a time, until she'd either demurely glance to one side or downward. Personality-wise, we really seemed to connect.

After 2 hours, I walked her to her car, all the while, her arms folded, and so I relented on attempting to ramp up my standardized escalation template, other than a very subtle graze on the forearm or touch of the lower back.

We crossed a major intersection and approached her car, where I paused there to see her off, by this point having just about dismissed this gal as any kind of a prospect. She turns to me to offer an embrace, to which I reciprocate . . . but then, given how she gazes at me, her face close to mine, it seemed as though she was beckoning me for something more. And, in turn, I felt as though it was my job to provide that. I kissed her softly, and in the midst of such, she clearly had yet to be satisfied, so right there on the side of the street where she was parked, we engage in a tremendously passionate makeout, our hands all over each other. The whole ordeal went along in intervals, by where I'd pull back a bit, stare into her eyes, look over her body, and we'd start the whole thing over. We'd kiss for a half minute or more, back away, break the embrace, and go at it again. Could've been a full 15 rounds of this, with her making a feeble attempt at finishing up to leave, but she'd just stand there, and I'd be hangin' back, ready to let her go, but she'd linger, so I'd pull her in for another round, feeling her ass, kissing her neck, holding her so close.

I made a gentle push toward inviting myself into her place, which was nearby, but she softly declined, after which, we parted ways, and only so reluctantly.

Crossing back over the street, I recall feeling quite pleased, especially given I almost bailed on this one. Still, a thought that held prominence was how even the most advanced levels of escalation can simply not mean anything to these chicks. I think it's very easy and natural for the average dude to walk away from something like that thinking he's really got something special there . . .

Later that night, I get this text . . .

Hey, I just gotta come out and be honest with you because that is best. Dinner
was nice, but when we were at my car I was feeling awkward. I was kind of
going with the flow of things, because that's how I am, but I actually don't think
I should have kissed you or kept going because I wasn't really ready. And I
apologize, I am wierd for just letting things happen. I hate to be a downer now
but Im not feeling this and don't forsee a future, so sorry for the confusion.

Even being ready for it, the pang of disappointment gnawed sharply within me. My response . . .

'k

Tossing the phone aside, I said to myself, "I just can't do this anymore." Now, before anyone here slams me with Abundance Mentality, Oneitis, and all that shit, let me make it clear that I 100% subscribe to the maxim, "She's replaceable", but in recent times, I've been thinking, "Yeah, she's replaceable, all right . . . but with what?" Another 1st date to nowhere? I've simply yet to be able to fully condition myself to completely dismiss any tendency to want to bond with these women, as immensely foolish of a notion that it really is.

Off-topic, but you're a great writer man. I really enjoyed reading your post.

Post: #157

My 2cents: You're compartmentalizing the sexual side of your interaction, separating it from the relationship side. Because of this you're coming off as incongruent in your interactions with women, ultimately confusing them and killing attraction.
I think you should try setting a sexual frame early, and pushing to sex as fast as you can, while communicating that you're open to a relationship, but not needing one (even though it's what you want). Much in the same way a girl will rationalize that sex "just happened," if you take this approach a girl can say that she just kind of "fell into" a relationship. I think it would also take the pressure off the girl if you're keeping things casual to start. Sometimes all it takes is a quick, good fuck and a girl magically wants to keep you around.

Post: #158

(01-22-2019 10:31 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  On my dates, I have a wealth of different conversation topics, one of the most consistently popular being content from previous dates, experience on the apps and the like. Maybe I should stray away from that topic?

I used to talk about previous experiences on the app during first dates, but then decided against it. Just a theory, but I suspect that by doing this I was conveying a "I do this all the time" player-ish vibe. My results started to get better when I dropped this conversation subject.

Post: #159

This scenario where you go for a heavy makeout and then she disappears is very common. I had dozens of similar encounters where I returned home with blue balls. It's even mentioned in the Mystery Method 20 years ago so you don't have to give up, you just have to get better...this happens to a lot of guys.

There are basically 2 scenarios you have to follow on a date:

1. Go for the bang (high risk high reward) - if you're a good looking guy and you know how to push the right buttons bounce her to your place. In the first and second venue briefly mention something of interest (a guitar, some exotic drink/souvenir, an amazing view etc) that you can show her in your flat. It's very important to have your logistics covered, that means no taxis or ubers, you have to be able to walk from the second venue to your place. Don't give her time to think too much about it, make sure you keep talking on the way to your place. Also, no heavy makeouts (definitely no tongue action) until you are comfortably on your couch.

2. Play it safe - based on her reply it seems you're good at building comfort but you escalated things too fast and activate her anti-slut defense. Why not avoid kissing altogether ? A lot of guys seem to be very insecure and believe that by kissing or touching her they will avoid the friend zone but it doesn't work that way. Once you create tension and you don't give her what she wants she will not stop thinking about the next date. You still have to subtly mention the object of interest in your flat and suggest a drink upstairs (just one because you have to wake up early the next day) but is she refuses that's cool, give her a kiss on the cheek and a hug. Drop a small joke about how you don't kiss on the first date but you might do it on the second date if she's a good girl. You're showing her that she's the one who has to chase you.

Post: #160

(01-23-2019 01:52 PM)Argot Wrote:  I used to talk about previous experiences on the app during first dates, but then decided against it.

It's hard to avoid. I've found that early on that women like to share dating app war-stories as a form of smalltalk because it's pretty much the ONLY thing they know they have in common with you when you first meet.

Post: #161

To the OP, I know this was a while ago now, but it sounds like she went full on as she was confused, then in the morning changed her mind. Women are very strange. Could be worse, I went on a date where the girl shagged me then cut me off (late 30s I think) She was off a dating app, was flirty and charming in all our texts beforehand and was talking about kissing me before we met. We went for a drink and she was physical with hand holding across the table within 5 minutes. We left the bar then went to the sea front and snogged for ages by the sea. Then carried this on at her place before I shagged her for hours and stayed the night. She cooked dinner for me etc. Next day text sorry I don't think I want a relationship, you didn't look like your pics, etc etc. Don't want to hear from you again. You never know how many of these are just BS excuses for them just wanting a shag only. She was an army girl so probably likes to score like the lads. Who knows with women what the hell they are thinking, its not worth worrying about it too much unless you think you did something wrong. Some women are just strange.

With some women the making out or snogging as I would rather call it, is enough for them as its intimate like foreplay, maybe you should follow advice here not to do this and kiss only briefly given that the date did seem you had blown it beforehand. The next day she can change her mind and not wonder what it would have been like to kiss you more. Although I know you had intended to be invited into her place to seal the deal, so don't blame you at all.

Post: #162

Whoa, look at all this excellent feedback. Hold on, let me get through all of this. From what I wrote earlier, I didn't mean necessarily, discussing these women's sexual history, but more like their experiences online, or being approached live, and on through the dating experience - the much more preliminary steps. No, I don't want to hear about how many randoms they're fucking. I know, the conversation can easily go down that run, but then I usually take the exchange in another direction. My best discussions on dates go over a lot of diverse territory, but I do realize that I'm just not exceptional enough. It's really quite tough for me to accept when girl after girl never wants to see me again, having had their fill after a great big 2 fucking hours.

Post: #163

(01-23-2019 01:01 PM)KeepMovingForward Wrote:  My 2cents: You're compartmentalizing the sexual side of your interaction, separating it from the relationship side. Because of this you're coming off as incongruent in your interactions with women, ultimately confusing them and killing attraction.
I think you should try setting a sexual frame early, and pushing to sex as fast as you can, while communicating that you're open to a relationship, but not needing one (even though it's what you want). Much in the same way a girl will rationalize that sex "just happened," if you take this approach a girl can say that she just kind of "fell into" a relationship. I think it would also take the pressure off the girl if you're keeping things casual to start. Sometimes all it takes is a quick, good fuck and a girl magically wants to keep you around.

A very good summarization, and given your post-to-like ration, it sits on a solid foundation.

Post: #164

The TLDNR for this thread:

Bitches be crazy.

You have to play the cards you are dealt, and chalk it up to game.

Post: #165

(06-04-2018 12:47 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  I don't mean to sound like a douche, but...OP, if you come off this pretentious wannabe shakespeare writing style, and it's concomitant state of mind you will be well on your way to getting laid.

8 months later and I still think this is your problem. I'll also cosign on the lack of congruence mentioned by kpf.

You mentioned that your main go to topic of conversation is previous dates...DON'T DO THAT.

Post: #166

I'll ease up on segueing into the dating history topic, but I disagree with your 'pretentious, Shakespearian' assertion. I like to tell a story with some eloquence, but I don't go to these dates tryin' to sound all intellectual and shit. Perish the goddamn thought.

Post: #167

I remember years ago a night that made me question the game in a similar way.

Ironically it was a week where things went well. Saturday night Tinder date with a recent university grad who teed up the evening talking about a history of 'bad decisions'. Back to mine after drinks. Never saw her again.

Sunday night another Tinder date. We had done a lot of flirting before, and after she commented approvingly on a picture of me in a swimsuit I said it was only fair for her to reciprocate. She responds with a picture in underwear and told me to 'imagine it was a swimsuit'. I see where this is going.

We meet, conversation goes better than the night before, lots of teasing/"stop it"/hair-twisting, make out in the bar. She feels comfortable enough to admit she recently got out of a very long term relationship where she cheated. She drives back to my place, kisses me in the car for a bit, then pulls back to leave. I invite her in but after the night before, didn't push.

To this day I distinctly recall walking in thinking it had been a fun weekend and yet feeling gnawing emptiness. Neither had any potential. It was just a fleeting physical connection. I weighed the effort to close the second, knowing already there was nothing in it, wondering why bother?

The next morning I got a text from her saying she enjoyed the night but hadn't felt a 'romantic connection'. I spent an hour spinning through possible explanations. Had I not pushed hard enough? Pushed too hard instead? Committed some error at the bar before? Was she just crazy? It didn't matter, the outcome was the same. I chalked it up to the same factors as others in this thread.

Postscript: a few days later I went on an impromptu Tinder date with an au pair from Slovakia. We ended up dating for a year. Another story in its own right, but redeemed the days before... it's always darkest before the dawn.

Post: #168

Mate it sounds like you're lone-wolfing it. Which is fine but if you're not getting success it tends to wear you down after a while and you develop expectation of failure, which is communicated to the girls via your body language, nerous energy etc.

Do you have any mates to hang out with and run game with? Getting yourelf some social proof can really help with getting the bang, or even just a second date. Keeps things fun and interesting and you will come off as less desparate.

Also, as said here forget dinner dates until AFTER you got the bang.

Post: #169

(06-04-2018 09:14 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Quote: Dinner was nice

You took a girl on dinner for first date? Please tell me it's not the case.

Assuming this was a first date dinner, then it's fucking doomed from before it even began.

I think the traditional 'first date' is dead in 2019.

In my experience I found a lot of women in this time and age strongly dislike 'first dates'. It puts pressure on them, its formal, its a 'statement' that the guy is attracted to the woman and the woman obviously likes him back to agree to 'a date' with him etc. Also most women already have a lot negative experiences from losers on first dates in 2019. Its the opposite of being spontaneous and keep them guessing.

Depending on how much you bonded with a girl when you met her/got the number, you should keep the first date as casual as possible in my opinion. Casual, and different from what everyone else is doing.

If a girl is not very attracted to me or I have doubts she will agree to 'a date' with me, I setup a 1st meet which is easy for her to agree. Something like: 'lets go to the mall at 15:00 for a couple hours. Need to buy a gift for my sister!'.

During the mall meetup I don't escalate, don't go for the kiss obviously etc. I use it to build attraction/comfort and say ridiculous things like 'so this is your big chance. Convince me you are not a serial killer and perhaps we can meet for a quick drink tomorrow'.

If you think she is already attracted + comfortable with you, skip the mall and go directly for drinks (with a clear plan to end in your place as recommended). But I agree fully that going out with a girl for dinner in 2019 is doomed before it begun in 99.9% of cases. Even if you have mad game, girls have too many negative associations with 'dinner dates'.

Post: #170

aa

Post: #171

^

Post: #172

(01-25-2019 11:14 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  ^

AA is probably the worst place to meet a chick right along with jail, rehab and the bus. I've seen it happen too many times but can't stop dudes if that's what they wanna do.

Post: #173

If I may interject, Mess O, I don’t think it’s specifically you that is the problem. You might be dwelling on certain topics that they might be uncomfortable with, or your frame might be a little off, etc etc, but nevermind all of that.

You are looking for a relationship, and that’s cool. The real problem here is that THEY aren’t. They just want to ride the carousel. It’s a fundamental mismatch that dooms you even before you sit your ass down with her. You may not be hitting enough attraction triggers to overcome this, but that’s besides the point.

You need to look for women who actually want to be in a relationship. In other words, a more traditionally-minded woman. Hate to break it to you, it’s highly unlikely you’ll find this using the same approach you are using. You need to change something — starting with WHERE you are finding women.

Hint: Not online. And maybe not even in your city... or country.

I feel your frustration, I really do... I’ve felt exactly as you have felt. I think you can guess how I dealt with it, though. Not sure if the same is an option for you.

Post: #174

I appreciate that feedback. In that spirit, yesterday, I did a date a with a Chinese woman who struck me as more 'traditional' (snort), and I really tried to keep the recent advice in mind. Had a good pace, push/pulled with the escalation, cut the date short around the hour mark, and left her wondering a bit at the end, as I opted out of implementing any physical moves in the good-bye.

All I can do is just move onto the next.

Post: #175

Since you are looking for a serious relationship, you need to change not only your hunting grounds but also your mindset too. You are there as the boss who's conducting an interview for the best job in *your* world: your woman. You can make it as fun as you'd like for both you and her, but ultimately you are testing her more than the other way around. You are not there to entertain and dance for her, it is the opposite. You want to hire the best candidate for the job, and you cannot afford to hire a bad one because she will fuck up your life. If your gut feels wrong despite your dick getting excited, you will eject and next her. You get her to talk more so you can listen more for reasons to disqualify her. You give the vibe that she can tell you anything and everything, but you are also extremely judgemental because this is your life, not a joking matter. You test to see if she follows your lead. You check if she is coach-able. You observe if she is appreciative of your spending time with her or teaching her things. You look for signs whether she is vaccinated against feminism or she is already sick with it.

Dates where you meet and immediately sit down to talk and eat or drink are not good for implementing the above strategy, although it can be a natural ending part of a longer date. You need to imagine her in the position of being your girlfriend 6-months or a year down the track, and go on a kind of action-oriented activities that you'd like to do together. Not only it is great fun for the good candidates, it weeds out all kinds of girls who are too inflexible for you, especially the ones expecting to be wined and dined. Go for a long walk in a nice public park on a weekend afternoon (bonus: she can't hide under bad lighting with clever makeup), take her out dancing, go see a local live band if you want to dance to live music, check out a cultural festival, an interactive art gallery, etc. i.e places where you can *do* things together. While doing things together, you can see whether she follows your lead, and understands her place in your world, because that's the essence of you two sharing a life.

All this time, you've been going on dates, liking the girl and hoping that you fit in her life somehow so you can proceed further with intimacy. You come away from it knowing nothing about the girl, not even why she disqualifies you, but I bet she knows a lot more about you and why you don't fit in her life. You have been wasting your time on thinking like an employee "does she like me?" or "why doesn't she want to see me again?" You need to think the opposite way, like a boss: does she fit well in your life? Has she done enough to earn the rights to having your time and knowledge invested in her? Is she the best candidate for the job?

Once you've made that mindset your default one, you'll find that the rest happen automatically. You'll have the right vibe - relaxed and not overly eager - and conversations will just flow. The better girl will qualify herself to you in every step, and will be eager to see you again. The crappy candidate will disqualify herself very quickly, sometimes not even accepting the date on your terms, which means you save precious time.

This is not necessarily the mindset for a player who wants to sleep around as much as possible, because you'll be tossing out a lot of chicks who might be down for some dickin' if you make the right moves at the right time. However, with this, you'll find more a few girls who are highly interested in you and you'll be in the boss position to pick the best from that short list of candidates for a happy relationship that will enhance your life.