Post: #451

Rereading daygame mastery and I think I might've realised a few sticking points of mine, after a lot of experience in the field

-Vibe and non verbals mattering much more than verbals, and how you can pickup girls without talking with great vibe but not with flawless speech but shit vibe(paraphrased). I've heard this a lot, but instinctively I placed a lot of importance in the stack and most of my focus was on that. I probably should've been more intense/sexual and less conversational. I forget that conversation is just the window dressing/icing on the cake.

-Tease/spike when you feel the girl slipping away, build comfort/rapport when you feel the girl is into you. Honestly this is so obvious yet my instincts have made me do the opposite. I think my internal logic goes something like: I feel the girl slipping away, I really want a strong connection, I'd show her more of me, this will make her like me more! and, I feel the girl is into me and there's a lot of sexual tension in the air, I like this feeling, let's create more of it!

Another observation is when I can't think of anything to say I just try to get her number/idate right there/then. I need to break this habit and start stacking more, remembering to tease if the girl is slipping and rapport when she isn't.

Post: #452

From my perspective, as someone who is new to women in general, it does have a very steep learning curve. It probably makes more sense if you have at least had one girlfriend and/or female social circle.

Post: #453

(11-05-2018 03:57 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  Rereading daygame mastery and I think I might've realised a few sticking points of mine, after a lot of experience in the field

-Vibe and non verbals mattering much more than verbals, and how you can pickup girls without talking with great vibe but not with flawless speech but shit vibe(paraphrased). I've heard this a lot, but instinctively I placed a lot of importance in the stack and most of my focus was on that. I probably should've been more intense/sexual and less conversational. I forget that conversation is just the window dressing/icing on the cake.

-Tease/spike when you feel the girl slipping away, build comfort/rapport when you feel the girl is into you. Honestly this is so obvious yet my instincts have made me do the opposite. I think my internal logic goes something like: I feel the girl slipping away, I really want a strong connection, I'd show her more of me, this will make her like me more! and, I feel the girl is into me and there's a lot of sexual tension in the air, I like this feeling, let's create more of it!

Another observation is when I can't think of anything to say I just try to get her number/idate right there/then. I need to break this habit and start stacking more, remembering to tease if the girl is slipping and rapport when she isn't.

Do you recommend Mastery? Curious as to which of Krausers books are recommended here and for what level.

Post: #454

Daygame is the absolutely best way to meet people. Yes, it takes overcoming your shyness and it takes footwork but thousands of times better than loud music and aggressive ex-con bouncers. Nightgame and internetgame is superior over to a man who is 8 or above and those people don't need as much game anyways.

Post: #455

(12-15-2018 02:06 PM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 03:57 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  Rereading daygame mastery and I think I might've realised a few sticking points of mine, after a lot of experience in the field

-Vibe and non verbals mattering much more than verbals, and how you can pickup girls without talking with great vibe but not with flawless speech but shit vibe(paraphrased). I've heard this a lot, but instinctively I placed a lot of importance in the stack and most of my focus was on that. I probably should've been more intense/sexual and less conversational. I forget that conversation is just the window dressing/icing on the cake.

-Tease/spike when you feel the girl slipping away, build comfort/rapport when you feel the girl is into you. Honestly this is so obvious yet my instincts have made me do the opposite. I think my internal logic goes something like: I feel the girl slipping away, I really want a strong connection, I'd show her more of me, this will make her like me more! and, I feel the girl is into me and there's a lot of sexual tension in the air, I like this feeling, let's create more of it!

Another observation is when I can't think of anything to say I just try to get her number/idate right there/then. I need to break this habit and start stacking more, remembering to tease if the girl is slipping and rapport when she isn't.

Do you recommend Mastery? Curious as to which of Krausers books are recommended here and for what level.

It's very good, however it's also very expensive... I'd recommend it if you like Krauser already and are comfortable being relatively analytical(but want to actually get good with game- ie not RSD) and have the spare cash to drop.

Nitro is for beginners, Mastery is for intermediates, I believe Infinite is advanced.

Post: #456

Do you think Nitro is necessary or can I just get Mastery if I'm an intermediate? Would prefer not to buy two books.

Post: #457

Nitro is decently worse than Mastery and is pretty unnecessary as an intermediate who's already relatively familiar with the idea behind LDM.

Post: #458

Mastery is certainly worth the high price. Cannot recommend it enough for anyone.

Nitro sucks and I prefer Tom Torero material for beginners (free e-book is enough to start).

Post: #459

(12-15-2018 02:24 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 02:06 PM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 03:57 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  Rereading daygame mastery and I think I might've realised a few sticking points of mine, after a lot of experience in the field

-Vibe and non verbals mattering much more than verbals, and how you can pickup girls without talking with great vibe but not with flawless speech but shit vibe(paraphrased). I've heard this a lot, but instinctively I placed a lot of importance in the stack and most of my focus was on that. I probably should've been more intense/sexual and less conversational. I forget that conversation is just the window dressing/icing on the cake.

-Tease/spike when you feel the girl slipping away, build comfort/rapport when you feel the girl is into you. Honestly this is so obvious yet my instincts have made me do the opposite. I think my internal logic goes something like: I feel the girl slipping away, I really want a strong connection, I'd show her more of me, this will make her like me more! and, I feel the girl is into me and there's a lot of sexual tension in the air, I like this feeling, let's create more of it!

Another observation is when I can't think of anything to say I just try to get her number/idate right there/then. I need to break this habit and start stacking more, remembering to tease if the girl is slipping and rapport when she isn't.

Do you recommend Mastery? Curious as to which of Krausers books are recommended here and for what level.

It's very good, however it's also very expensive... I'd recommend it if you like Krauser already and are comfortable being relatively analytical(but want to actually get good with game- ie not RSD) and have the spare cash to drop.

Nitro is for beginners, Mastery is for intermediates, I believe Infinite is advanced.

I like technical game and being somewhat analytical, but at the same time I feel we're over-engineering this. Sometimes it is so counter-productive for me that it prevents me from approaching. It's because I'm thinking too much about the perfect approach. So I'm a bit hesitant to go deeper into Daygame Books, even though I have watched/read enough material.

Onto game stuff: I got a text from a girl I daygamed and went on a date with this past week. She said she liked that I approached her on the street because that's rare and when it happens it's usually from creeps.

Did not get the bang, just to be clear and transparent but that's another story. She was here for a week which looks like an ideal bang scenario, but was the non-partying type. Friendly and easy to talk to on one hand but cautious and not promiscuous. She asked to meet for a drink the night before she would leave, but I was at a company event and by the time it was done she had felt asleep. She's back in the country she lives now but she still maintains contact.

I'm going to say it one more time, daygame gives you access to all women. That means even those who are in relationships, married, lesbians, recently out of a relationship etc. These are all the categories that will most likely reject the idea of meeting you for sex. Naturally, your % will be lower than nightgame.

Post: #460

(05-12-2018 12:14 PM)polar Wrote:  You don't have to "stop" doing game. You will just age out from young demographics eventually, unless they have a fetish (the % will decrease over time). You can extend / prolong your reach into younger demographics by taking good care of yourself as you age - eat well, sunscreen, gym...

Based on informal observation, it seems that 40-42 is the cutoff from 18-24 for most guys, fame or money aside...past that point, you need to dangle a carrot. It also seems many guys begin preferring older women, because they have more experience, better conversations, etc.

It becomes ever-tougher to relate to younger demographics due to your differing realities. You need to sell yourself as connected to their lives, and make yourself relatable. The other factor is pheromones - after a while, you'll have that "old people smell" to young folks. Nature at work.

The last thing I'll say is that my anecdotal experience shows that most old, lifelong players (over 45, never married, no intentions) are bitter and set in their ways. By that age, they're kind of locked in, as their tastes are skewed towards YHT, but will never get commitment from that caliber, unless it's transactional with girls from the 3rd world or something. In my opinion, not a good way to have to live out the entire second half of your life.

My god, as a man who is 30 next year, should I just give up already. This is pure depression right here.

Post: #461

That black pill applies to the average guy in the west. It is very sad and blackpilled. But good news is the age cutoff varies by country though. In Latin America and eastern europe I see the under 25 demo have "seeking man 30-50" a lot, sometimes to -60.

You can also always talk the age gap away, like most problems, with enough face time with the target. Hard to do in practice in smartphone societies, but it matters, the longer you talk the less the age matters.

Also the less hair you have, the more you need to hit the gym. Bald + Muscles still wins.

Post: #462

I second Scrambled's notion, the issue is that it becomes in some ways easier, in some ways harder, to get away from the $ West to the cash strapped LatAm or EE. After a certain point, if you can't fight the older person idea (even though you don't look whatever your age is) in the West, and you want to make something happen, you have to be resolved to make it happen, full throttle.

Post: #463

Daygame = a gourmet home cooked meal
Nightgame = Meal at a Diner
Onlinegame = Greasy Delivery food

Post: #464

I was reflecting on this today after doing a few day approaches with another guy from the forum. I think it is really important that your style of approaching matches with your overall background/personality and that you are able to caliber depending on location/situation.

Reading through this thread seems like some guys just watch some of those youtube videos of PUA (which btw I find super creepy as they are basically filming another person without their consent) and just re-use the same sentences/lines without getting the result they expect.
The points they are missing is that type of game works good for the youtube guys because it matches their overall presentation but won't work for them as their vibe is just different.
Why pass yourself for a tough bad boy type when in fact you are a skinny pale computer guy? Or why you pass for a super intellectual who knows about fine arts if you are an ignorant that never finished high school? Girls can smell poser from miles away.
Thats why I don't think fake it till you make it really applies to game, as someone else said is more "make it then you fake it".

Regarding me I have a very direct approach and I tell girls how they are so beautiful, my princess, how I would take them with me to show them Italy etc. (I get to the point where North Americans think its cheesy). I use this style because it matches my background (Italians are known for this latin lover bullshit) and in reality I am a bit of a romantic deep inside ahahha
This works great for me in Latino America and Spain, has worked very good in North America - probably due to my exotic accent and foreign passport, I suspect a regular North American guy would come off as weird if he tries it- didn't work good in UK where people seems to be just awkward and shy in general and doesn't work for shit in Italy where most of the guys run the same type of game and girls can see through our shit. I still have to work on getting better on caliber my style.

On the look vs game part - I agree that looks matter but not as much as people here makes it out to. To me being an average looking guy has never been a drawback during the day as I have a very good approach to fuck conversion ratio with girls that are way better looking than me.
I feel not being the best looking guy in the room penalises more at night and online where the competition from younger and better looking guys is higher.
I don't deny I have a few things going on for me like being tall and have a certain style that girls might dig but even then I don't see why anyone that maximises his look and play the card he was dealt by life without looking creepy shouldn't get good results daygaming.

Post: #465

(12-16-2018 07:11 AM)Trent W. Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 02:24 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

(12-15-2018 02:06 PM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 03:57 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  Rereading daygame mastery and I think I might've realised a few sticking points of mine, after a lot of experience in the field

-Vibe and non verbals mattering much more than verbals, and how you can pickup girls without talking with great vibe but not with flawless speech but shit vibe(paraphrased). I've heard this a lot, but instinctively I placed a lot of importance in the stack and most of my focus was on that. I probably should've been more intense/sexual and less conversational. I forget that conversation is just the window dressing/icing on the cake.

-Tease/spike when you feel the girl slipping away, build comfort/rapport when you feel the girl is into you. Honestly this is so obvious yet my instincts have made me do the opposite. I think my internal logic goes something like: I feel the girl slipping away, I really want a strong connection, I'd show her more of me, this will make her like me more! and, I feel the girl is into me and there's a lot of sexual tension in the air, I like this feeling, let's create more of it!

Another observation is when I can't think of anything to say I just try to get her number/idate right there/then. I need to break this habit and start stacking more, remembering to tease if the girl is slipping and rapport when she isn't.

Do you recommend Mastery? Curious as to which of Krausers books are recommended here and for what level.

It's very good, however it's also very expensive... I'd recommend it if you like Krauser already and are comfortable being relatively analytical(but want to actually get good with game- ie not RSD) and have the spare cash to drop.

Nitro is for beginners, Mastery is for intermediates, I believe Infinite is advanced.

I like technical game and being somewhat analytical, but at the same time I feel we're over-engineering this. Sometimes it is so counter-productive for me that it prevents me from approaching. It's because I'm thinking too much about the perfect approach. So I'm a bit hesitant to go deeper into Daygame Books, even though I have watched/read enough material.

Onto game stuff: I got a text from a girl I daygamed and went on a date with this past week. She said she liked that I approached her on the street because that's rare and when it happens it's usually from creeps.

Did not get the bang, just to be clear and transparent but that's another story. She was here for a week which looks like an ideal bang scenario, but was the non-partying type. Friendly and easy to talk to on one hand but cautious and not promiscuous. She asked to meet for a drink the night before she would leave, but I was at a company event and by the time it was done she had felt asleep. She's back in the country she lives now but she still maintains contact.

I'm going to say it one more time, daygame gives you access to all women. That means even those who are in relationships, married, lesbians, recently out of a relationship etc. These are all the categories that will most likely reject the idea of meeting you for sex. Naturally, your % will be lower than nightgame.

Daygame Mastery or Street Hustle are good foundations! However as somone here mentioned LDM can get very technical and into canned approaches not congruent to your personality. I think its best to read it as foundation but be free loose and freeflow in sets, fully express yourself, be empathetic towards here, and lead forward to a date or a number. Ive seen way too many daygame robots spitting out torero or yad or nicks lines...its weird and creepy....just understand the structure and throw it away to do your own thing.

Post: #466

How you use day game depends on where you are at in your life and your priorities. It also depends hugely on your location.

Overall, you want to get to a stage where you simply 'sniper'. If you are going to the shop, walking through the city, at an event, on lunch break - living your life basically - you have the ability to go up and spontaneously start a conversation with a girl that sparks your interest. It should be very natural.

This works because you should have other sh*t going on in your life, and you simply don't see the value or have the time to spend hours walking around streets and venues talking to girls - and following up on them. Focus on quality and fitting things into your life instead of the other way around.

It's a low time investment - high return strategy, and you don't f*ck up your mindset and values doing it. It's also a type of game that leaves essentially no footprint (which is good for you and the girls you approach).

The way day game is taught by most pickup teachers is very cringe - sometimes mass approaching, little emphasis on not alienating the girl, no mention of how to fit it into your life in the long term or around a healthily balanced life.

If you can't talk to a girl during the day, do night game first to build confidence and rhythm (in quieter venues and outside of loud clubs), and start by having platonic conversations with both girls and girls during the day before progressing into making moves on girls during the day.

The exceptions to 'sniping', would be if you live in a high density city like New York, London, Chicago, Las Vegas etc, or if you are travelling with the express purpose of dating (casually or long term). There's probably a few others too.

But the above is the best long term strategy I've settled on with other stuff going on in my life (business, friends, lifestyle, health etc).

Post: #467

(08-16-2018 02:04 PM)pelicanto8888 Wrote:  Can some experienced guys give their opinion on Anthony Hustle please?
His infields seem to be less "gamey" and more normal chit chat. But does he have good game or is he relying on looks?
Should an average looking guy seek to imitate him?

A couple of his infields:

IN his latest pull (he seems to pull every time he leaves his house lol) he just uses google translate.

Post: #468

Everything has its ups and downs

(not complete list)
Daygame pros

vs. nightgame
- not being hungover
- not having to go to bars or clubs if you don't like those places

vs. online game
- less competition - any scrub can send a message on an app

vs. social circle
- don't have to be social

Daygame cons

vs. nightgame
- probably more "boring" if you like high-energy environments like clubs

vs. online game
- online you can be doing from your house

vs. social circle
- have to make an impression vs. not try as hard if you are cool and have "social proof"

Need to decide what makes sense based on your personality, lifestyle, etc.

Post: #469

(03-07-2019 03:36 PM)whiteknightrises Wrote:  Everything has its ups and downs

(not complete list)
Daygame pros

vs. nightgame
- not being hungover
- not having to go to bars or clubs if you don't like those places

vs. online game
- less competition - any scrub can send a message on an app

vs. social circle
- don't have to be social

Daygame cons

vs. nightgame
- probably more "boring" if you like high-energy environments like clubs

vs. online game
- online you can be doing from your house

vs. social circle
- have to make an impression vs. not try as hard if you are cool and have "social proof"

Need to decide what makes sense based on your personality, lifestyle, etc.

You also forgot to mention that daygame takes considerably more time invested than everything else combined.

Even the best daygamers have terrible meet to bang ratios. 30 to 1 meet-bang ratio is what I read some of the "masters" pull off.

In online game and night game at least you know most women are available or receptive to the approach.

I'm not saying daygame is bad, but if you wanted to get laid in the fastest/most efficient way possible then night game and online game triumph in my opinion.

My point is not valid I guess when you just go through your normal life and take the opportunity to daygame when it presents itself.

Post: #470

(03-07-2019 07:21 PM)Tinder Scientist Wrote:  

(03-07-2019 03:36 PM)whiteknightrises Wrote:  Everything has its ups and downs

(not complete list)
Daygame pros

vs. nightgame
- not being hungover
- not having to go to bars or clubs if you don't like those places

vs. online game
- less competition - any scrub can send a message on an app

vs. social circle
- don't have to be social

Daygame cons

vs. nightgame
- probably more "boring" if you like high-energy environments like clubs

vs. online game
- online you can be doing from your house

vs. social circle
- have to make an impression vs. not try as hard if you are cool and have "social proof"

Need to decide what makes sense based on your personality, lifestyle, etc.

You also forgot to mention that daygame takes considerably more time invested than everything else combined.

Even the best daygamers have terrible meet to bang ratios. 30 to 1 meet-bang ratio is what I read some of the "masters" pull off.

In online game and night game at least you know most women are available or receptive to the approach.

I'm not saying daygame is bad, but if you wanted to get laid in the fastest/most efficient way possible then night game and online game triumph in my opinion.

My point is not valid I guess when you just go through your normal life and take the opportunity to daygame when it presents itself.

I disagree with that. This depends on a lot of factors.

You also kind of contradict yourself with your last sentence.

I've been doing daygame cold approaches, at least 3 per day, for the last few years consistently and it's not time consuming at all if you do it "when it presents itself" as you said.

Also, I don't know how can someone extrapolate numbers from another guy's experience. From 20-25 approaches per week, I usually end up with 1-3 Day2s every week. And I usually close 1-3 of these every month.
However, I doubt my experience mirrors other people's experience. You might be older/younger, more/less handsome, more/less good at closing, with different logistics etc. So your numbers logically will end up being different.

Post: #471

I'm killing it online game, but I'm north of 40

Online is so efficient as I can screen for single, looking for a man, her looks, how stupid she is, and my investment is 5 second's to give her a yes or no option.

The real game starts when you get her on the first real date, but online cuts the time, effort and wasted energy right down to minimal.

Post: #472

Start a thread so we can get a look at a seasoned veteran's online odyssey in the new year.

Post: #473

(03-07-2019 09:00 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  I'm killing it online game, but I'm north of 40

Online is so efficient as I can screen for single, looking for a man, her looks, how stupid she is, and my investment is 5 second's to give her a yes or no option.

The real game starts when you get her on the first real date, but online cuts the time, effort and wasted energy right down to minimal.

Can you do a brief manifest of your personal 'date game'? (typical first few mins of conversation, how you lead it, typical topics you cycle through adn questions you ask etc, if/how you sexualise it and make it a 'fun' date etc).
I'd be interested having never had a 'date' (partly because I almost NEVER get a match online, plus I have only ever had one night stands from cold approach for all of my lays)

As a result, in my head, a 'date' just feels super awkward and I imagine it being like a weird job interview or like one of the 'bad dates' you see on reality dating programs ''Soooo.....you have any brothers or sisters???....cool, cool'' lol.

For some reason it feels very different too a cold approach on some completel stranger where she can just walk away 2 seconds in if she's not into me.

Problem is that i can't even ask me friends because the only guys who I know who get laid like Kings using online stuff are all unsurprisingly extremely good looking, and so girls write to them first, tell them how handsome they are, and then my friend pretty much says ''Are you dtf?'' they say ''hell yeah!!'' and then he just gives them his address and pretty much starts taking their clothes off as she walks through the door! lol. So no 'date game' required. But yeah, I can't run that model. Especially if I never get a match!!! haha

So in for tips

I did actually watch a full infield of a date from janlifestyles premium product yesterday and it was surprisingly boring (mainly spoke about his job and quite a lot of silences) but the girl still seemed super keen. It just looked like fairly bad game to me, if i'm honest, but maybe i've got it wrong in my head and date game is basically 'just be normal, she already thinks you'are handsome and stuff, and that's why she agreed to the date.'

Post: #474

I recently got arrested running day game.

So yes, I do think it is the worst way to meet women.

Post: #475

(03-08-2019 03:39 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  As a result, in my head, a 'date' just feels super awkward and I imagine it being like a weird job interview or like one of the 'bad dates' you see on reality dating programs ''Soooo.....you have any brothers or sisters???....cool, cool'' lol.

So in for tips

I did actually watch a full infield of a date from janlifestyles premium product yesterday and it was surprisingly boring (mainly spoke about his job and quite a lot of silences) but the girl still seemed super keen. It just looked like fairly bad game to me, if i'm honest, but maybe i've got it wrong in my head and date game is basically 'just be normal, she already thinks you'are handsome and stuff, and that's why she agreed to the date.'

You're overthinking it. If it feels like a "dinnerview" then you're doing it wrong. In fact, having dinner is wrong.

Arrive looking great and tell stories that make you look fascinating. Casually DHV with your conversation. Don't ask about her past or future. It's not about her. Talk to third parties, bartenders, etc. Sexualize convo later if she gives you doggy-eyes. If not, then eject.

This ain't rocket surgery. There's 3.5 billion vaginas in the world. And women are acutely aware of this. A meh date means nothing to them, so it should mean nothing to you.