Post: #26

(11-15-2018 05:17 PM)Flux Wrote:  You can't teach a woman if you're not prepared to leave her at any moment. That's what's so difficult about beautiful women.

You have to genuinely from the bottom of your heart, not give a fuck, while at the same time love her enough to train her.

They require a lot of love too, so the the love for yourself has to be sky high, so that you still think you're better than her, after giving her so much--you have to love your appearance, love your brain, love your emotions--100%. Love what you bring to the world, the value, how others see you, how you are as a leader.

You have to basically think, and know, you're a bad ass motherfucker that could have any girl in the world. Your purpose has to be challenging enough, that you think you deserve a beautiful, loyal woman.

You lose that frame, you lose the girl.

Lots of gold in this thread. The bolded part from Flux basically sums it up for me.

Post: #27

First things first @Noir

As always dropping the highest quality and insightful material



Jefferson

You keep pounding this carpet trying to shake out a new answer to the same "bugs". A new "solution" to the "problem" you've identified. That problem being that "This girl doesn't behave towards me the way I would like her to... sometimes".

But that isn't really the problem.

How much control should you exert in an LTR?

The answer is "none"

"Exerting control" is an exercise of force. Forcing compliance, behavior, attitude etc is essentially putting lipstick on a pig. Masking symptoms does not cure the disease.

If a woman only behaves a certain way in direct exchange for (insert commodity) then the relationship is not based on the necessary elements required for a more "organic" inter personal dynamic.

Attraction + respect + admiration = Appreciation

Appreciation is a critical component that is often overlooked and or mis-defined

Ive often used the following analogy when discussing the nature of appreciation*

Imagine if you will a glass of water. Now in that water there are a few particles of something floating around. Maybe just a little dust the wind kicked off the kitchen window sill.




Would you drink it?

Of course not. Youre in the kitchen. You simply dump it, rinse the glass and pour another glass from the filtered water port on the fridge

Most on the forum will recognize this as having "abundance mentality".

But lets change up the hypothetical scenario. Your car breaks down on some remote stretch of road of the Mojave Desert. Your stranded with no cell reception, no provisions and no civilization for 100 miles so you have no choice but to walk out. So you walk for the next 3. 5 days, without food or water and finally stumble across and old abandoned shack. You are at the end of your endurance, cracked tongue and lips from dehydration

You stumble in and there on the counter:



Would you drink it? Of course. Anyone would. And in that extreme moment that less than pristine glass of water would be the best tasting, most satisfying, most appreciated glass of water of your life. Wouldn't it ?

So appreciation is directly linked to value (be it real in the case of the physical or perceived in the case of the ego)

Now what does this rather ridiculous exercise have to do with the topic at hand?

Youve already acknowledged your previous mistakes in terms of the allowance, gifts etc. You've also mentioned that this girl was accustomed due to her looks to receiving those same things from other men.

So in addition to her being on the HPD spectrum, which is an issue unto itself, you ceded all power in the relationship with those mistakes. Along with that power a large portion, if not all, of her respect for you went with it.

Without respect a woman can not be unconditionally attracted to a man long term. She can not appreciate him fully as a man. Without intrinsic, holistic appreciation for the man, not just for the commodities that any other man (glass of water) can provide separately she can not give herself wholly as a woman.

Its an immutable fact

Over and over we see it repeated the themes repeated

Men fall in love with the women they are attracted to

Women are attracted to the men they fall in love with


The way I see it you have 3 options

- Continue to try and make the relationship what you want. As much as you want this to happen I doubt that its possible given the established dynamic and her social conditioning probably being to far gone -(by not just you but the other men who've "bought" her attention and affection"). She may eventually reluctantly relent and agree to be with you but she will likely harbor deep resentment and probably cheat on you

- Accept this dynamic as it is. Acceptance being defined as appreciate the good moments / periods as much as possible while developing the ability to not care during the bad. This is likely unrealistic and will undoubtedly lead you down the road of frustration. resentment, and ultimately disappointment

-Replace her. Is she the "cleanest glass of water" you can attain? I guess thats for you to answer.

As everything always does it comes down to the struggle between Fear and Desire. You desire those long legs, nice ass, perky titties, pretty face but you fear that youre in a desert and this cloudy glass is the best you can have

But then I have to ask "How do you know that she is? " What real, meaningful effort have you made to find another young woman with all the physical attributes (the commodity she offers you...with diminishing value I might add as she careens toward the obsolescence wall) but with a more agreeable personality?

Id hazard that if you answered honestly its "none really".

Its human nature. "Bird and hand"- right ?

Fear vs Desire

Winning only comes from living a life that is predominantly desire driven with the a prudent amount of fear to keep one from being suicidally (sic?) reckless

Men are looking for all women to fulfill their one need and desire

Women are looking for one man to fulfill all their needs and desires

When a man lives a strong desire driven life then the woman (women) in his life want nothing more than to willingly go along for the ride. She wants nothing more than to be made whole by him. No "control" is necessary. Only mild guidance

Post: #28

PT, quite so, Noir's posts were admirable, as indeed is yours, as always.

Yes, I am still attempting to do the best possible in the current situation. Now by way of update she re-initiated sweetness and contact after one week at the start of which she had, for the 129th time said we were done. I then proceeded to exercise some of my other options, I added one girl to my insta account, a hot 21 year old. After normality was restored and she agreed to travel across the world to be with me again she then saw that this 21 year old girl was added. Her initial anger was deflected by me with 'What do you expect if you terminate our relationship, there are a lot of other options. If you had not ended our relationship she would not be there'. I am hoping this will work towards regaining some power in the relationship.

Why do I persist? Precisely because it is my desire to be with this woman. She is highly attractive, intelligent, fun, good in bed, a laundry sage, if it were not for her inconsistency and anger issue she would be obvious LTR material. I actually really desire and like this woman. It is NOT because I think I can not get other very good women, I know for sure that that is the case. It's because I desire this woman, and I feel like we have not really started our relationship in earnest, because whilst we lived together for a year, this was over 3 or 4 month intervals over 3 years. We are currently on the cusp of being able to live together without having to part ways again. As you can imagine part of the issue has been the temporary long distance element, which creates a lot of insecurity for both parties as well as my divorce not being resolved. Once this is taken out of the equation and we can fully live together long term THEN I can see if it will work or not. So far each 3 month period living together has been better and better, with less drama. She is learning. She is not stupid. IF that fails I can always find another better woman, I am quite relaxed about that.

However, due to her very strong HPD or anger issues or whatever the fuck it is, I am very much looking at what is the appropriate amount of control of her often volatile, erratic, deceitful and poor behaviour. Now you have helpfully defined Appreciation. Could you do the same with control? I just want to make sure we talk about the same thing. I see everything as 'control' which makes her do as you want. You say control, there should be none, I suspect because you associate control with force, because you then say 'mild guidance' is required. So what is the difference between control and mild guidance? If you tell her how to cook your eggs, I see that as controlling how she cooks. I just want to make this clear. Though of course I was looking at generic control or guidance methods that can be used, vs those that are obviously self-defeating and undesirable.

We both know you cannot FORCE a woman to become what she should be. This is not what I intend either. Her compliance is directly linked to her desire to be with me, this is quite clear. This is why she now says she will come to fly to me, why she now agreed to make her profile pic public again to show she has nothing to hide. She still has a desire to be with me. Now I am fully aware that this desire could be stronger, if my mistakes had not been so multiple, clumsy and heavy handed. Which is why I want to stop any control that is resented as too 'bossy' as it were. However, I do want to guide her to behave in the correct way, how to please me. This is almost unnecessary in sex where she out of herself comes up with new ways to please me. Because it happens when we are together. It is in the long distance where the thorn of insecurity cuts deepest, in particular with social media. For both sides, btw.

I strongly believe that respect, just like trust, can be built over time, and indeed re-built. I want to make this work. I think she does too. For three years she is still showing she wants to be with me. Now of course I am concerned that she is with me only for material benefit, of course I am concerned she may cheat again. If that were to happen of course I would have to pull the curtain down. However, I think if we start to actually live together long term, if she sees that I divorced and work on increasing attraction and behave in a way that will command respect, then just like trust, appreciation can be rebuilt. Believe it or not, I feel there is a certain amount of appreciation now, we respect each other's intelligence, consistent work on the relationship, and we certainly are attracted to each other because the sex is simply outstanding. However, she does not trust me fully, due to various past mistakes, and now too because I added another woman on instagram, just like I do not trust her fully due to her past mistakes, hence insecurity, but like I say I think trust can be rebuilt.

Of course your analysis is correct, and once again, I marvel at the jedi like clarity posters like you and Noir and Kaotic can display on such matters. Yes, the options are as you state. As you correctly point out the result is impossible to forecast at this point. I think it could still work. Maybe I am being suicidally reckless, but I truly think that.

On that note, I think once we are living together full term, in a few weeks time, the need for control of all this social media garbage will cease. Will I still check her phone regularly? Hell yes. But we have not really had a true chance. We had to struggle through my divorce issue, the long distance and lots of other issues, which are now fading on the horizon.

Post: #29

Posts from Noir and Flux keep me coming back here time and time again. Thanks for the insight

Post: #30

Okay, here´s my two cents.

Acoording to my personal experience with LTR, it is basically irrelevant, and the answer depends on your individual case. I´m in a point of my life where I consider that women are inherently guided towards unfaithfulness, regardless on how much control you exert over them.

i was kind of controlling with my LTR (almost 4 years), but in a subtle way. She ended up cheating on me even though we saw each other pretty much every day. These days I´ve been messing around with a girl that´s been in a LTR for the past 5 years with an italian dude that pays for all her shit. He barely exerts any control over her.

So it´s not about the amount of control but how is your relation with her and what are your expectations.

If you´re already committed, at least don´t mess up your brain. The best option is to care little to nothing and do your own thing. At the end of the day, if shit goes down, at least you´re not as attached and will avoid oneitis.

Post: #31

(11-18-2018 02:57 PM)joecolombia Wrote:  If you´re already committed, at least don´t mess up your brain. The best option is to care little to nothing and do your own thing. At the end of the day, if shit goes down, at least you´re not as attached and will avoid oneitis.

The thing is, whether you like it or not, once you've been with a girl for some time, and especially if you have kids with her, you're invested, and attached. And so you can't say that you don't care. I'd say the answer is to be ok with that, while being as independent as possible.

Post: #32

@jcardial made a good post above me and @PT did another stellar job of fleshing it out.

Quote:Yes, she is 19 years younger than me, Noir, and believe me when I tell you, I have given this girl experiences that most women will not have in a lifetime, I took her to dinner and coffee at Savini's, got her to watch her first NBA game, I took her to her first opera performance, to her first musical performance, phantom of the opera, to some of the finest restaurants in the world, like Barrafina, Bocca di Lupo, I took her sailing in the Cayman Islands, dinner at Taikun in the Ritz Carlton, I pulled out all the stops. I even made the bad mistake of sending her a monthly allowance of like 1000 dollars, which she used to renovate her mothers house, I was the one to put wifi in her house, I paid 3000 dollars for her sister's operation. Bear in mind I have the face, not the body, and she is from a poor background. The only problem, she's had three other boyfriends who ALSO took her to five star resorts, bought her what she wanted, she's kind of expecting this treatment.

Has this helped me? Maybe, but I still experience her daily HPD issues, she is still friends with a homosexual who talks me down, she is still withdrawing compliance on a regular basis. Because she wants to lock me down for marriage. Which I see way down the road, if ever.

There’s a difference between sharing experiences because you’re including her and organizing experiences for her specifically. Think about this deeper, the one is a response to your desire for her and the other is a consideration for inclusion in something you were doing regardless.

You’re a giver, and that is a great thing; don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. The unfortunate truth is that women misconstrue this as you trying to obtain something from them and take it for granted too.

You picked a woman who expects this treatment and that puts you at a handicap because to level the playing field and come in at the ‘normal’ level, you need to be a provider automatically and it’s too late to turn back on this. You can withdraw these displays of affection and it would send out a message but the timing is key.
I will not delve into why your use of money and displays of affection could be doing you more harm than not as this is covered in-depth; refer to PT’s in-depth post above.

Quote:I like this team vibe notion, which I tried to do in the past to some degree. But she's a very 'ME' girl, headstrong and sometimes I feel not so much a partner as a project. She expects highs all the time, and you're responsible to deliver them. She's just been conditioned this way by four men in a row.

You have no choice but to frame it and if she is a ME girl then she is a NEXT girl too. You’re better than that and if you lead the lifestyle you do then trust me, you don’t need her. She needs to understand her responsibilities and generally, it’s up to her to realize this and you to shape that energy into what’s right and what is not.

Quote:How does the intimidation manifest itself to her?

Controlled displays of displeasure or anger in certain scenarios which cause hooks and tells. Like poker with my close mates, you figure out a profile for each of them and notice certain ‘tells’ when they’re bluffing, got a strong hand etc.
You plant these tells so she knows when you are feeling a certain way without you needing to say anything.

The intimidation is this combined with her desire for you to always feel good. When you make her feel special (not with gifts but through your masculinity, vibe, sex, whatever) then she will do her best to reciprocate. It comes back to the carrot and stick.

As for experiences, it’s more about the way you make her feel and your ability to recall those emotions through memory. Not Instagram experiences but actual, deep experiences. Trying MDMA together and getting lost in a bubble. Having sex in the forest which is something she has never done before. Taking her on a stupid, exhilarating date just to fuck with her. Getting her an ice cream flavor that she mentioned once upon a time and didn’t think you would even remember.
The timing of these depends too but I think you get the message here. The above are examples off the top of my head.

Quote:This is my mistake. I am always super nice to her. That's a my mistake. I need to be less nice to her. But then you have to be the best friend too? Grrrrr

Definitely, you have to polarize to appreciate both sides of it. I am always nice and have her back but treat her like a little sister at times and will tease.

Post: #33

(11-18-2018 02:57 PM)joecolombia Wrote:  Okay, here´s my two cents.

Acoording to my personal experience with LTR, it is basically irrelevant, and the answer depends on your individual case. I´m in a point of my life where I consider that women are inherently guided towards unfaithfulness, regardless on how much control you exert over them.

i was kind of controlling with my LTR (almost 4 years), but in a subtle way. She ended up cheating on me even though we saw each other pretty much every day. These days I´ve been messing around with a girl that´s been in a LTR for the past 5 years with an italian dude that pays for all her shit. He barely exerts any control over her.

So it´s not about the amount of control but how is your relation with her and what are your expectations.

If you´re already committed, at least don´t mess up your brain. The best option is to care little to nothing and do your own thing. At the end of the day, if shit goes down, at least you´re not as attached and will avoid oneitis.

Yah, I don't see how you can not care after a few years, at the beginning maybe. You can pretend maybe. But how can you not care for someone who makes your life better. But yes, not overdo that is important, I think I did. And I will scale back.

There's a lot of truth in the fact that it is about how the relationship is, if it is very good this issue would come up very rarely.

Post: #34

(11-19-2018 03:36 AM)Noir Wrote:  @jcardial made a good post above me and @PT did another stellar job of fleshing it out.

Some excellent advice on here, I really appreciate it. It has helped me to clarify things in my mind.

(11-19-2018 03:36 AM)Noir Wrote:  There’s a difference between sharing experiences because you’re including her and organizing experiences for her specifically. Think about this deeper, the one is a response to your desire for her and the other is a consideration for inclusion in something you were doing regardless.

That's what I was doing, thinking of her specifically. I need to focus on me more. Got it.

(11-19-2018 03:36 AM)Noir Wrote:  You’re a giver, and that is a great thing; don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. The unfortunate truth is that women misconstrue this as you trying to obtain something from them and take it for granted too.

I have noticed this. I would send gifts over amazon again and again. And it never helped me any. The arguments would still happen.

(11-19-2018 03:36 AM)Noir Wrote:  Controlled displays of displeasure or anger in certain scenarios which cause hooks and tells. Like poker with my close mates, you figure out a profile for each of them and notice certain ‘tells’ when they’re bluffing, got a strong hand etc.
You plant these tells so she knows when you are feeling a certain way without you needing to say anything.

Excellent advice. Signal displeasure clearly. Got it. Can I ask you, if your partner does something you don't like how do you react specifically? For example, let's say she would use swear words, for example 'shut the fuck up' in the middle of an argument. How do you react specifically, noir?

(11-19-2018 03:36 AM)Noir Wrote:  The intimidation is this combined with her desire for you to always feel good. When you make her feel special (not with gifts but through your masculinity, vibe, sex, whatever) then she will do her best to reciprocate. It comes back to the carrot and stick.

I think this will work better when we're together again soon. Part of the issue is being apart and this social media bullshit.

(11-19-2018 03:36 AM)Noir Wrote:  As for experiences, it’s more about the way you make her feel and your ability to recall those emotions through memory. Not Instagram experiences but actual, deep experiences. Trying MDMA together and getting lost in a bubble. Having sex in the forest which is something she has never done before. Taking her on a stupid, exhilarating date just to fuck with her. Getting her an ice cream flavor that she mentioned once upon a time and didn’t think you would even remember.The timing of these depends too but I think you get the message here. The above are examples off the top of my head.

Excellent examples, thanks for this, I get what you mean.

By way of update, after she re-iniated contact she was a bit rude again after being sweet and I brutally ended things, but she apologised and then complied with all the demands I made. So now everything is all sweetness and loveliness again. But I am under no illusion that this will be a constant case of being aware and doing the right thing. And if she presents any real problems I will again just walk away for real. I realised the power of this recently. PT was right, your advice has also been extremely helpful. Thanks.

Post: #35

You’re desperate and very likely in love. You’ve lost the initiative, your position is very weak, and she knows it. She may very well love you sincerely too though.

Your question is a bit ironic. You wonder how to control her, but you realize that she is actually completely out of control.

There is only one way to regain the initiative. You should decree a pragmatic sanction. What is a pragmatic sanction? You call her when you need sex only, and you ignore what she does the rest of the time, as long as she provides good sex.

Post: #36

Yes, we may be in that situation Montrose.

I think I have come to the conclusion that you can not control the woman too harshly. She has now recently complied with another request, to make her profile pic public not private on FB, so I can see who likes it, she complied with a large number of previous requests. But I think this mostly arises out of the situation that we have been apart the last two months. Once we are together again in four weeks I hope that these online arguments will come to an end.

The pragmatic sanction seems misplaced, since we are likely going to live together in four weeks long term, ie for good. But yes, I need to lay off some of the controlling behaviour, as I noticed it does cause unhappiness on her part. Some of it is just not worth it. The good thing, following some excellent advice on here from Noir, Papaya Tapper and others, I recently walked away and meant it. She has now come back sweeter than ever. But I will keep an eye on things.

Post: #37

(11-19-2018 11:00 AM)Montrose Wrote:  You’re desperate and very likely in love. You’ve lost the initiative, your position is very weak, and she knows it. She may very well love you sincerely too though.

Your question is a bit ironic. You wonder how to control her, but you realize that she is actually completely out of control.

There is only one way to regain the initiative. You should decree a pragmatic sanction. What is a pragmatic sanction? You call her when you need sex only, and you ignore what she does the rest of the time, as long as she provides good sex.

Right.

OP, I just now realized that you were the one who also made the thread about this same girl choosing a gay friend over you in an ultimatum you gave her.

If you really want shit to improve, you need a clean track record with a new girl that you haven't already fucked up with ultra beta-provider game.

Stop trying to save that ho.

Post: #38

Things actually have improved the last few days a lot, she's back on the programme. I'm not that worried about the gay friend anymore.

I like this girl and think things can still be rectified. If not I can always get a new girl.

Post: #39

(11-19-2018 11:00 AM)Montrose Wrote:  You’re desperate and very likely in love. You’ve lost the initiative, your position is very weak, and she knows it. She may very well love you sincerely too though.

Your question is a bit ironic. You wonder how to control her, but you realize that she is actually completely out of control.

There is only one way to regain the initiative. You should decree a pragmatic sanction. What is a pragmatic sanction? You call her when you need sex only, and you ignore what she does the rest of the time, as long as she provides good sex.

"Pragmatic Sanction"

Another term added to the quiver ...thank you Montrose

Post: #40

@Jefferson



Youre waging her internal battle with your external weapons (and poorly at that). Its exhausting and its futile

I am familiar with HPD and have dealt with it at varying degrees . It is the reason for my post regarding girls having to have the "happy gene" trait as a primary requirement.

"If only" (insert condition: lives with me, gave up her gay friend, etc.) are just rationalizations. Nothing will change because the underlying foundation issues issues (hers and yours) remain

Youre heading for a continued endless cycle of intermittent calm and heavy frustrations. Situation is not for me... but Im not you

I wish you well.

Post: #41

Yes, it can be exhausting, PT.

Dangerous even, at times when she lived with me she attacked me physically several times and I was forced to take defensive action.

These are intermittent blow ups, and the good, fun, pleasant times do outnumber the arguments still.

If it were to get too much I would certainly walk away and find someone new.

Incidentally I had a girl who had the happy gene before. But she changed a lot after the years went by. I do not believe frustrations can be avoided altogether in life.

Thank you, and again your advice has been consistently excellent. I much appreciate it.

Post: #42

(11-19-2018 11:59 AM)Jefferson Wrote:  Yes, it can be exhausting, PT.

Dangerous even, at times when she lived with me she attacked me physically several times and I was forced to take defensive action.

These are intermittent blow ups, and the good, fun, pleasant times do outnumber the arguments still.

If it were to get too much I would certainly walk away and find someone new.

Incidentally I had a girl who had the happy gene before. But she changed a lot after the years went by. I do not believe frustrations can be avoided altogether in life.

Thank you, and again your advice has been consistently excellent. I much appreciate it.

Of course some level of frustrations and conflicts in life and relationships are inevitable.

But there's difference between occasional minor conflicts that keep the boundaries visible and living a life thats likely to end up on The Jerry Springer show or even an episode of Cops

Yikes

Post: #43

(11-19-2018 11:59 AM)Jefferson Wrote:  Yes, it can be exhausting, PT.

Dangerous even, at times when she lived with me she attacked me physically several times and I was forced to take defensive action.

These are intermittent blow ups, and the good, fun, pleasant times do outnumber the arguments still.

Keep on runnin' lil guy, keep on runnin'.

Post: #44

(11-19-2018 09:45 AM)Jefferson Wrote:  Excellent advice. Signal displeasure clearly. Got it. Can I ask you, if your partner does something you don't like how do you react specifically? For example, let's say she would use swear words, for example 'shut the fuck up' in the middle of an argument. How do you react specifically, noir?

I don't react in the moment, I do the classic women trigger response of 'we will discuss this when you calm down'.

My reactions are when shits all good and she isn't expecting it. This has the strange outcome of keeping her in check. Honestly, my girls don't give me shit anymore because I don't invest as much in their responses.

I can't give you a clear answer because I have realized you are dealing with the type of girl I would have cut loose a long time ago and I don't think I am the ideal person to advise you on this due to my lack of reference points with such nutcases.

Montrose and PT have some good advice but again, I don't back myself 100% as above.

Good luck, whatever you decide but I would cut her off and move on/reset.

Post: #45

(11-19-2018 12:13 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Of course some level of frustrations and conflicts in life and relationships are inevitable.

But there's difference between occasional minor conflicts that keep the boundaries visible and living a life thats likely to end up on The Jerry Springer show or even an episode of Cops

Yikes

You're right. If it gets too much I will end it.

Post: #46

(11-19-2018 12:45 PM)Noir Wrote:  I don't react in the moment, I do the classic women trigger response of 'we will discuss this when you calm down'.

My reactions are when shits all good and she isn't expecting it. This has the strange outcome of keeping her in check. Honestly, my girls don't give me shit anymore because I don't invest as much in their responses.

I can't give you a clear answer because I have realized you are dealing with the type of girl I would have cut loose a long time ago and I don't think I am the ideal person to advise you on this due to my lack of reference points with such nutcases.

Montrose and PT have some good advice but again, I don't back myself 100% as above.

Good luck, whatever you decide but I would cut her off and move on/reset.

Good response. De-escalation has to be the weapon against the massive escalation willingness on her part. Then firmly mark the boundary.

Responding too much to the drama, as PT also identified, is not a good thing. It feeds it. I need to cut that off.

I just think I'd be happier with her, even with occasional drama, than without her, but if the drama takes on Jerry Springer levels I would definitely eject.

Post: #47

(11-19-2018 01:57 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 12:45 PM)Noir Wrote:  I don't react in the moment, I do the classic women trigger response of 'we will discuss this when you calm down'.

My reactions are when shits all good and she isn't expecting it. This has the strange outcome of keeping her in check. Honestly, my girls don't give me shit anymore because I don't invest as much in their responses.

I can't give you a clear answer because I have realized you are dealing with the type of girl I would have cut loose a long time ago and I don't think I am the ideal person to advise you on this due to my lack of reference points with such nutcases.

Montrose and PT have some good advice but again, I don't back myself 100% as above.

Good luck, whatever you decide but I would cut her off and move on/reset.

Good response. De-escalation has to be the weapon against the massive escalation willingness on her part. Then firmly mark the boundary.

Responding too much to the drama, as PT also identified, is not a good thing. It feeds it. I need to cut that off.

I just think I'd be happier with her, even with occasional drama, than without her, but if the drama takes on Jerry Springer levels I would definitely eject.

This forum was built on the mounds of ashes of the threads that were started by men about "this one girl".

Just to reiterate: Your lack of real willingness to actually walk away, in a nutshell, is the exact mechanism that caused you to cede any and all power in this dynamic.

I've never had a girl I was involved with scream "shut the fuck up" at me during a conflict. Not once, much less again. Thats already Jerry Springer territory to me. Im with Noir on that as well. I screen differently

Post: #48

PT, I actually walked away before. I ended it three times with her.

Once when I caught her writing to an ex boyfriend, and also to the guy she went on holiday with a week after meeting me. She wrote to them telling them that her father had died, seeking their sympathy when she was down, nothing sexual or seeking to hook up again. Nevertheless this betrayal of trust was too much for me and I bought her a return ticket, it was before Christmas 2017. She threw herself at my feet, crying and begging me to let her stay in my apartment until her visa ran out so she could find a job in my jurisdiction. I had got tickets to leave and see my family, I just left and she had to spend Christmas on her own. But I let her stay there a further 8 weeks, and of course we ended up in bed again.

Just the other day I told her we were done after she refused to take a phone call from me. Then she called me 18 times and apologised.

She does not scream 'shut the fuck up' at me in person, but because we communicate over text in arguments she sometimes does text that, you know how it is over social media, things are quickly fired off she would not say in person.

But yes, maybe I am already in Jerry Springer territory thinking about it.

I am aware of the problematic with this girl's behaviour, it is just that her positive behaviour is at least as intense as her negative behaviour, if you know what I mean.

Post: #49

The fun times usually are really fun with crazy chicks. The wide variance in behavior indicates you're dealing with BPD.

Let's look at this the way professional risk managers do: estimate the probability of a favorable vs. unfavorable outcome and then put a value on each. I guarantee you the negative outcome is higher and the results of a negative outcome are MUCH more severe than the positive outcome is good.

Having been in both dysfunctional and functional I say GTFO now. This shit isn't going go change and it only takes one blowup to go the wrong way for you to find yourself having a date with the Booty Warrior.

Post: #50

A lot. Make your expectations clear and if she doesn't keep up, get rid of her. Run your family like your legacy depends on it.