Post: #26

How old are you exactly? I think it's natural to find that your priorities shift with age, but don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I'm gonna ask a question since I've seen you in other threads.

Is this at all related to your hair loss? I remember you were really stressing about losing your hair and the effect you thought it would have on your game.

I don't really see the point in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You can just do what a lot of asia expats do: have a main chick and cycle in sides as you see fit. Some chicks even sort of expect you to do this (as long as you don't bring that shit home.)

Post: #27

(11-04-2018 05:51 PM)scotian Wrote:  I'm 36 and haven't gotten laid in 2 months because I've been in a remote work camp in the middle of the woods. I have one more week of this bullshit left, I have dates lined up with girls from dating apps, I will ring up some old bangs, I will day game at the mall, go to night clubs and bars, I will even fuck a fat girl if I have to. I can't wait to get some fucking pussy!

They don't have any bears up there?

Post: #28

(11-04-2018 11:41 PM)Fortis Wrote:  How old are you exactly? I think it's natural to find that your priorities shift with age, but don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I'm gonna ask a question since I've seen you in other threads.

Is this at all related to your hair loss? I remember you were really stressing about losing your hair and the effect you thought it would have on your game.

I don't really see the point in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You can just do what a lot of asia expats do: have a main chick and cycle in sides as you see fit. Some chicks even sort of expect you to do this (as long as you don't bring that shit home.)

Not to do with my hair loss although it does bother me to a mild extent. I'm 32 and a Norwood 3, so I'm probably on par with most men my age. I'm on propecia and I am stable, which is a major relief. Another positive is that I look good bald (I shaved it all off a few years ago for a month or two and was able to date women without any problems).

Post: #29

(11-04-2018 11:14 PM)flyinghorse Wrote:  

(11-04-2018 07:30 PM)Flux Wrote:  

(11-04-2018 06:24 PM)flyinghorse Wrote:  

(11-04-2018 05:38 PM)Flux Wrote:  find a wife, and have children. You cannot escape responsibility; you either take it or you degenerate.

Pretty certain the vast majority of men on here don't want a wife or kids either.

Imagine fucking the same woman everyday for the rest of your life.

It's either that, or you waste time chasing.

If you give up on women entirely, then make sure you're the next John D. Rockefeller and do something amazing with that sexual energy, because most men that don't see women are addicted to porn, and have miserable lives.

Marriage, and having family is good for men, we just have to make sure it's the right woman, and we've done all the fucking we wanted to in youth.

Remember to do what's right, it's the hardest thing, but you can't lose that way.

I bet you love your Jordan Peterson

No, I'm just a conservative, and an idealist. We should all seek out lives that are balanced, and that are significant. Of course I'm a also a hypocrite because I'm currently living a life of hedonism and excess, but I'm quite young, and this is a rite of passage.


As for Peterson... he's a coward that stops short of saying the truth, and has said nothing that isn't known to anyone that has achieved, or gone through a difficult task.

His advice is for life novices.

Post: #30

Alright, then just take a break. Focus on the stuff that excites you, but you don't need to write off women. Trust me. Sometimes you get so fed up with the game that you burn out a bit.

After like 3-4 weeks you're back out hunting for the next notch. It's a cyclical thing for many of us.

If your life is as together as you say, then I'd say just focus on your work, chilling with friends, reading good books and whatever else makes you happy for a while. I recently nexted a few girls to focus on other shit and, surprisingly, I'm happier because of it.

I would also explore why you started playing in the first place. Maybe you've conquered the things that were stopping you from getting laid in the past, so now you don't need to keep grinding at that level.

Also, I recall that you live in asia but you don't really like the girls in your locale. Have you considered leaving? I honestly couldn't live in a place where I didn't like the girls. I'd hate gaming there too.

Post: #31

You already are in a MGTOW lifestyle and how you are feeling now is how it is and will be... or is it an INCEL lifestyle?

Think deeply about this...

Post: #32

Much of this thread will centre around different definitions of what MGTOW actually is. As far as I’m aware, MGTOW men still date. I think the red line for them is highly risky arrangements such as shacking up and marriage.

I have no issue with a man who rationally considers the cost - risk - benefits associated with relationships with modern women and concludes that he cannot afford the cost or risk the hazards.

I think there are overlaps between the various manosphere / red pill sections: a man who has sworn off the rigged western dating market in favour with SE Asia or South America is a partial MGTOW in my book as he’s gone his own way.

Post: #33

Let's take labels out of it for a second, because with MGTOW, red pill, black pill, purple pill, blue pill - there are common definitions of what these things mean, and then everyone has their own slight variation of what each of them means to them personally.

What you are experiencing from what you've described is likely either:
1) Temporary burnout - in which case you might need a break from game altogether for a week, a month, or more, before you get back into it
2) A change in life priorities - in which case you might be looking for more out of life than casual sex. You're looking for something more sustainable and meaningful

In either case, you are still going to need sex eventually because it's a biological drive - so don't quit women and dating altogether

I suggest you take a break, reflect on your past, reflect on what you want in the future, and ask yourself why you want those things

Then, ask yourself what you have to do to get the things you want, stop repeating the mistakes that are leading to unhappiness from your past, and structure your life around that.

You can adjust your life as you go, but always keep in mind your goals and your lessons

Now we add the general labels back in...if we say there are two ends of the spectrum as extremes, they might be:

a) A hardcore player - lifestyle is centered around gaming and having sex with women. May or may not have the rest of his life together, but in all likelihood, he doesn't, because the amount of time and energy it takes to be constantly getting new leads and closing them is very high. Niches only last for so long before they dry out and you are left with nothing to show for it. Also, a lot of your mental energy and physical schedule is based around women first, and everything else second.

b) A MGTOW monk type guy - lifestyle is centered around rejecting a woman's presence at all costs. Has a shitload of time to focus on all the things he wants and developing himself. But, is not meeting his biological drive to have sex. This is concerning because it's in our nature not only to have sex, but to connect with the opposite sex - otherwise we can get unhealthily out of touch physically and mentally. If you aren't socialising with or connecting with women at all - that's a very lopsided way to be living and interacting with the external world

Instead - start by doing do a balance of the two.

Set yourself a schedule to start developing the other areas of your life - social, career, money, health, mental, travel etc. This is your first priority

AFTER you have done what you need to do from that perspective, use the rest of your free time to game and date girls. This fits in and around your first priority, but not before it

As time goes on, adjust the balance to a balance that suits you and who you naturally as a person

Post: #34

(11-05-2018 01:35 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  You already are in a MGTOW lifestyle and how you are feeling now is how it is and will be... or is it an INCEL lifestyle?

Think deeply about this...

Incel means involuntary celibate - so that's basically the mentally handicapped or the physical repugnant.

I'm not MGTOW right now because I've spent the last 7 years on and off fucking random women (and dating many too).

Post: #35

(11-05-2018 12:36 AM)Fortis Wrote:  Alright, then just take a break. Focus on the stuff that excites you, but you don't need to write off women. Trust me. Sometimes you get so fed up with the game that you burn out a bit.

After like 3-4 weeks you're back out hunting for the next notch. It's a cyclical thing for many of us.

If your life is as together as you say, then I'd say just focus on your work, chilling with friends, reading good books and whatever else makes you happy for a while. I recently nexted a few girls to focus on other shit and, surprisingly, I'm happier because of it.

I would also explore why you started playing in the first place. Maybe you've conquered the things that were stopping you from getting laid in the past, so now you don't need to keep grinding at that level.

Also, I recall that you live in asia but you don't really like the girls in your locale. Have you considered leaving? I honestly couldn't live in a place where I didn't like the girls. I'd hate gaming there too.

I chose my current country because I didn't have teaching experience in England but I was qualified. This meant I couldn't teach in desirable places like Rome or Munich but I could get a job in places like Phenom Penh or Hanoi.

I've signed a two year contract, so i'm locked in for another year. After I gain more experience I will be able to apply for some better locations. The best international schools prefer you to have teaching experience in your home country, but I am currently not willing to live back in England for two years. I am hoping that after I finish my two year contract I will have enough experience to apply to live in mid-tier cities such Zagreb or Kuala Lumpar (and then branch swing from there).

The women issue is a big deal to me here:

Two options are either date a local woman who is physically hot but usually lacks enough English to have a compelling conversation with. Or, date another expat, but these usually fall into two categories or young girls on a gap year, or over the hill women with a certain bitterness towards men (i'm generalizing here, but its surprisingly accurate).

Post: #36

Tough out the year and then move on. No shame in that.

Post: #37

Many game aware guys who consider MGTOW are simply reacting to being stuck in a bad dating environment. Once you’re not stuck in that environment you will think and feel differently.

Post: #38

(11-04-2018 07:17 AM)Built to Fade Wrote:  I fully support the MGTOW lifestyle under a particular MGTOW acronym I use. The words representing each letter of this acronym are completely different from "Men Going Their Own Way".

Shoutout to Aaron Clarey for his posts about MGTOWs.

What I mean by the above statement is for my dream, which will never go away. It is to continue through the narrow path after being called out of the world.


Here's a better MGTOW acronym:

Meticulously
Game
Towards
Overcoming
Weakness
_______________________________________________
"Well, she was runnin' after us, I was screamin’, "Go, go, go!"
But with three of us, honey, it's a sideshow; and a circus ain't a love story
And now we're both sorry (we’re both sorry)." #138

Awesome

How many times can I like this post by Built to Fade..

Post: #39

(11-05-2018 02:10 AM)N°6 Wrote:  Much of this thread will centre around different definitions of what MGTOW actually is. As far as I’m aware, MGTOW men still date. I think the red line for them is highly risky arrangements such as shacking up and marriage...

Isn't that just a single man? And plenty of single guys with active dating lives are hesitant about marriage or just living with a woman. Hell, I still am at over 40 - and I was just happily in a non-shacking-up LTR for a few years (though I wouldn't necessarily have minded the shacking up part).
Surely there's got to be more to MGTOW than just a marginally more negative attitude towards women? Not that I would know as it's not a topic I've ever read more than stray comments about.

I always figured they were also mostly swearing off sex and other physical intimacy with women.

Post: #40

After reading the advice I think I will just do the whole monk mode for 3 months - get in even better shape and finish this novel and then I will revaluate from there.

Post: #41

MikeS, as far as I’m aware MGTOW, ranges from old school bachelorhood, monk mode to the curious case of Turd Flinging Monkey on YouTube who lives with his sex doll whom he’s named.

Most however put women’s absence to the centre of their lives so they’re the mirror image of the PUA who puts women in a central place.

Most celibate MGTOW are surely incel rather than volcel. It’s easier to quit before accepting that you’re fired but that doesn’t mean most of these men are defective. In a marriage minded dating market, I’d say that 5 to 10% of men were incel. In an era where the pill, the smartphone liberates female sexuality and hypergamy, inceldom threatens as many as the bottom 30% of men. Not only that, the middle 50% of men take on a lot of risk by settling with women, simply because the timing is right for them to leave the cock carousel when wedding vows mean nothing other than being hollow romantic tat.

Post: #42

(11-05-2018 10:59 PM)flyinghorse Wrote:  After reading the advice I think I will just do the whole monk mode for 3 months - get in even better shape and finish this novel and then I will revaluate from there.

If you have trouble doing the novel as such, consider keeping a blog as a noteboook you are simply kind enough to let the public read. In your reply to me downthread you made it clear that generally you are happy with life except sluts started to bore you and while success came to you in other pursuits it eluded you in writing.

Something that I have had to accept in life is that sometimes the black dog of depression is going to shit in my yard, and I just have to endure. It's real shit. After moving to South America I have had the kind of pneumonia which would have guaranteed certain death a century ago and passed through the ordeal far more upbeat than my baseline was years ago.

Monk mode for self preservation is a solid move. Trying to improve your fortunes on the writing front is a good idea. Just keep yourself open to nutting in a slut, even if you aren't chasing them. A cheap dopamine rush is a cheap dopamine rush and with the right timing it might help you return to seeing some light. Just resist the urge to give any negatives in your life the possibility of permanence, especially boredom.

Post: #43

(11-05-2018 03:51 AM)flyinghorse Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 01:35 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  You already are in a MGTOW lifestyle and how you are feeling now is how it is and will be... or is it an INCEL lifestyle?

Think deeply about this...

Incel means involuntary celibate - so that's basically the mentally handicapped or the physical repugnant.

There are many ways to be involuntarily celibate, like being in a location where you are surrounded by cunts, or just isolated for example. Or being old and "over it" mentally/physically etc. It makes you incel by default.

That's what I mean by thinking deeply about it, not surface level hamstering to make you feel good about being incel by giving it a label like MGTOW.

Not a dig by the way, I've thought about this myself... for example, raising standards so high that you knock back perfectly fine lays and go through a dry spell is incel too... because if you had it your way, you'd be getting "10s".

Post: #44

I don't think you need to go MGTOW but start shifting into LTR position with women. Seduction is a time sink. Just remember, Girlfriends are better than Wives. For two reasons,

A) Girlfriends can be dropped as fast as a rock if they get out of line.
B) There is very little financial consequences for leaving.

The only reason to get married is to have babies.

Post: #45

Sounds like you’re investing too much in women. Do your own thing and let the women come to you.

Regards the wife and kids thing, it’s certainly the most amazing thing I’ve ever done. But you have to be ready for it. You obviously aren’t.

Concentrate on yourself for a while.

Post: #46

(11-06-2018 01:35 PM)PolymathGuru Wrote:  I don't think you need to go MGTOW but start shifting into LTR position with women.

I'm coming around to the idea FWB is the best arrangement for guys because at least with FWB you have things in common besides just the sex, but the commitment/expectations are low. As you would expect, this is the least attractive option for women because they extract the least resources, but it's a far better deal than they give it credit for given that it avoids all of the high drama surrounding all of the shit-tests and ultimatums that go hand-in-hand with hanging the anvil of huge expectations on top of each boyfriend.

The funny thing about female psychology is they derive so much false comfort from declarations of commitment. Commitment doesn't mean squat considering that all commitment can and usually is eventually undone anyway (including marriage). The quality of a relationship is really not a function of "commitment". All relationships are effectively at-will employment whether they want to acknowledge it or not.

Post: #47

(11-04-2018 11:22 PM)flyinghorse Wrote:  

(11-04-2018 07:55 PM)BBinger Wrote:  

(11-04-2018 06:19 AM)flyinghorse Wrote:  I've had my fair share of flings, relationships, and one night stands but feel at the age of 32 I'm getting ready to bow out of it all.

-I could never imagine fucking and seeing the same woman every day for the rest of my life (nor do I want children, either) and so the prospect a long term relationship appears unrealistic and unappetizing.

-I'm tired of wasting money and effort sleeping around. I did this from my mid 20's to my early 30s and I've had some great experiences but its slowly and increasingly losing its appeal. I've met the arty types, the hipsters, the shallow, the pretty, the ugly, the musicians, the sporty types, the plain and janes. The desire to keep meeting new women, to keep putting energy into dating - where that energy ought to be better spent - and to keep having sex with random women has lost its appeal.

Anyone else reached this point where the MGTOW lifestyle looks far better than the 'player' lifestyle?

I used to look at MGTOW guys and think they're losers (some of them are legit incels or bitter divorced dudes) but the lifestyle actually looks better right now than my womanizing past.

You are in a slump. This mood may or may not pass, but the bigger question is: "How is the rest of your life?"

Is the rest of your life this joyless? A lot of men have to fight the black dog of depression. It is an ugly fight a lot of strong men lose (Hemmingway et al). It might be time to step back from the game as a pursuit in itself and seek a purpose for yourself. Take shit one day at a time, pursue goal driven activities, and hope this funk passes. Go your OWN WAY, but in the authentic sense of pursuing the best for you. Maybe something medical is going on? Get a general checkup.

Are you location dependent? Are you generally doing whatever the fuck you want in life? Take on a challenge! Maybe seek a geographic cure.

I think my life is going pretty well in some areas.

My fitness is incredible.

My sex life is good if I want it - my game is probably average, but i'm decent looking so I can get 6s and 7s without too much trouble.

My career is enjoyable - i'm a teacher working abroad - I'm not a senior figure though, but that's how I prefer it. I avoid the responsibility of management, nor do I get any pleasure telling people how to work efficiently.

I get 12 weeks off a year, so travelling is also fantastic, although in my 30s the love of travelling has waned somewhat as I have been spoiled.

-Two things I am unhappy with is my writing career (I used to be a journalist) and I wanted to write a novel (which I never finished). I'm not sure if I am quite talented enough to publish so I've avoided writing for the last 6 months.

- The other issue is meeting a woman where I love their company (very intelligent, good conversation, and affectionate) and who I also want to fuck. I actually feel very pessimistic that I will find such a woman (even finding a highly intelligent woman can sometimes be a challenge). A further problem is that if they are elite in terms of IQ and looks than they will probably seek an elite male (and while I am a damn site better than average I am not in that elite category).

So as with most people, I have areas which are great and other areas which are poor.

If we are thinking in terms of hierarchy or needs; my issues would be at the top of the pyramid.

You seem to have answered your own questions in this post.

It sounds like you are teaching in S. Korea from your view of the women.

Post: #48

Don`t know if anyone else has caught this, but it seems that Youtube has started a MGTOW purge of sorts, demonetizing the most popular channels like Sandman and Thinking Ape etc. Quite a few have been demonetized at this stage.

A bit surprising to me actually, since I though MGTOW sort of served the elitist agenda by furthering the polarization of the genders, reducing fertility rates etc. But maybe I`m giving them to much credit there. Probably just a few angry, blue haired, low IQ Feminists and their beta tech enforcers acting on pure emotion.

Post: #49

Most likely the latter.

I'm surprised as well. They like to keep harmless (aka doesn't ask tough political questions or call out malicious actors by name) accounts and people around so they can use them as strawmen to illustrate how horrible, racist, and misogynistic these terrible right wing people are.

Even then well....MGTOW is cancer but I don't support deplatforming them.

Post: #50

It would be nice to see a bit more solidarity here because the trouble Roosh has been having and MGTOW is now having are all coming from the same place. Pretty much the entire red-pill/manosphere has now been classified as a bunch of hate-groups by the left. This pushback is conciding with more and more mainstream adoption of these concepts (with men of course) and media exposure (like the MGTOW episode of Lisa Ling's show tomorrow on CNN). I think this represents an important inflection point.

The closest thing I can think of is when the book "Men are from Mars / Women are from Venus" came out. There is a stubborn idealism that wants to resist the notion that courtship is actually a form of low-level conflict with its own power dynamics baked into instinct for the purpose of survival of the fittest. We think we're so evolved and beyond that when we're clearly not. There's a reason why the phrase "all's fair in love and war" was coined, after all. But to educate men about their vulnerabilities is seen as hate-speech because it makes women look shrewd and calculating. The truth hurts.