Post: #26

Unless being friends with her is giving you access to higher smv women through a social circle than you would be able to get on your own I don't see the value of having female friends. If you aren't getting value you are wasting time pandering to her that you could be spending on gaming girls who will look at you in a sexual way. These stories seem few and far between. The thought of being a woman's friend is disturbing to me unless I can immediately determine some obvious benefit.

Post: #27

One day I'll do an actual post about this... benefits of female friends:

- Quickest way to elevate your social circle game. When I have parties at my house, my female friends bring their other female friends, roommates, etc. It's all about building your social network. Having female friends ensures you will always have a supply of females at your disposal. It is also the easiest way for older guys to infiltrate younger social circles.

- Excellent insight into the hamster wheel. You don't think these young girls are fucking 70 dudes in a year? Are getting all kinds of attention from thirsty beta males? Won't cheat on their boyfriends with the tattoo guy? Have some hot female friends, and you will have an incredible understanding of how females work. My game improved tremendously after hearing stories like "Ugh, this guy just won't stop fucking texting me, and he keeps using emojis!"

- Some can actually add value and insight to your life. Not typically the shot girls or strippers, but I have some female friends who are business owners and think very differently than I do. It's particularly helpful if I need to see how potential jurors will interpret evidence or react to something.

- They're good for business. A lot of successful men will gravitate to a business where hot women are employed. I always make sure to have a few hot young women on my staff. Why? Clients like it. Makes my practice seem high value.

- Instant pre-selection and "non-creepy" when you go to a bar and a portion of your social circle is hot girls. It makes cold approaches so much easier. They'll usually talk you up (or talk you down, which ironically, gives you an opportunity to show how you pass shit tests like they're a joke)

Caveat: You must maintain basic game principles and frame for these relationships to work. If they see you as a supplicating beta, they'll tell all their friends that you're "nice but kind of a nerd."

Caveat 2: Your female friends have to be attractive.

Also, keep in mind that having female friends isn't a huge commitment. It's not like you have to spend every waking moment on the phone with them, sending texts back and forth about the new episode of Orange is the New Black or whatever the fuck people text about.

"yo i'll be at [Hipster Bar] with trey and rob. chu doin"
"Oh hey Hank! You wanna day drink?"
"depends on if your roommate is coming out"
"She's bartending but I have a friend in town. You'd probably like her."

Finally, in terms of an emotional or philosophical connection, there are a wide variety of relationships with different people. I have some guy friends who all we talk about are sports and lifting. I have other guy friends who I have deep political and philosophical discussions with. I have other guy friends who all we talk about is work related stuff. And then I have a very close but small inner circle of male friends who I talk to everything about.

It's the same with women - some are just fun to hang at the bar with. Some add something of substance. Some I'm banging but I can't really stand to be around. Some I like being around but wish she were hotter. I have two female friends who I consider "inner circle." The rest are acquaintances and party homies.

Considering that you can choose how much time and investment you're willing to put into a friendship, there's no downside to having women friends. If you think a woman who you're not having sex with is wasting too much of your time, just dial back the friendship. You don't have to return every text message or answer every single call. Don't be a dick about it, because you never know when you'll run into her and the hot roommate at the bar...

Post: #28

I have no doubt of social circle and nightlife benefits especially with good looking women. But are good looking women going to want to associate with guys they don't see as being on or near their level? From my quick read of your analysis to me a woman who isn't good looking or well connected socially would offer me negative value as a friend. I can't even fathom how you guys work full time jobs and also have the time to game women and get laid with some regularity while also having the luxury to give time to woman friends that don't add much value to you. Where's the time for self-improvement? Not trying to be an asshole/dismissive but connecting the dots within my own life, when people say these types of things it just doesn't add up with me. Game these days is like working a second full time job. How does anyone have any time for anything else? Maybe I am the anomaly that has to do things differently than the average guy on this forum. I don't know.

Post: #29

@HankMoody: I wouldn't call them your friends, you seem to be describing an acquaintance type of relationship, the type women have with each other. I hate to break it to you, but women aren't really capable of friendship; they're back stabbers and lack accountability; two essential things in friendship. For a woman to be loyal she must be in awe of your strength and power--you basically have to be her partner--for she latches on to your strength and not to you directly.

You get female 'friends' because you're capable of making this feminine type of chatter with them which a lot of men dislike; you resonate with them on a feminine level.

If you can handle the drama, and just simply listening to a woman you're not attracted to, props to you, but if so why don't you get a girlfriend? You're obviously able to tolerate women talking, exceedingly well, I'm sure you'd make a terrific boyfriend.

A lot of men in the game just can't handle being around women for too long and that's why they avoid anything too long term.

Post: #30

Comic that Hank References:



Excerpt from a good post on the subject

Quote:Putting aside the childishly stated false apology (as irritating as it is), I arrive at this:



It isn’t a “crappy consolation prize”.



It simply isn’t a prize at all.







It’s wheels on a tomato.



It’s a solar powered flashlight.



It’s a bowling ball gifted to a golfer.



It’s an effectively useless offering.







You’ll “be my friend”?



What do we have in common?



What are the interests we share?



What are the tasks you can and, more importantly, will do for me when I’m in need?

Post: #31

Can work, if there's a mutual understanding you'll cancel on a whim (non-friendzone meeting). Some might get mad about this. Be prepared.

Post: #32

(01-08-2018 08:26 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  Considering that you can choose how much time and investment you're willing to put into a friendship, there's no downside to having women friends. If you think a woman who you're not having sex with is wasting too much of your time, just dial back the friendship. You don't have to return every text message or answer every single call. Don't be a dick about it, because you never know when you'll run into her and the hot roommate at the bar...

I agree with you Hank. I don't understand why there's this consistent aversion to having female friends amongst many pick-up guys.

I can only assume its because they were hurt as a teenager when they finally made a move after orbiting some girl for years. Even by learning game they are still at risk of being seen as asexual because they don't have enough positive experiences in a wide range of settings yet.

Here's a personal anecdote of how having female friends helps me. I have a friend who wanted to go to a cooking class and I I wanted to refresh my skills so we both signed up for an evening course. Now this girl is cute but not my type. If I wasn't friends with her I'd hit on her but at this point I value her more as a friend.

In the beginning most people thought we were a couple so I get some social proof. I noticed one of the regulars liked me but she wasn't my type either.

Then one day I see a new girl in the class that I'm really attracted to. Turns out she is friends with my friend.

Unfortunately she has a boyfriend. Oh well, it doesn't matter I just add her to my social circle.

Over the coming months I hang out with the original friend and the girl I like in various social situations. Then she moves to another town and I figure that's the end of the story. Now lets be clear, all this time I'm not obsessing about her. I have other things going on in my life, other women.

Fast forward a couple of months and out of the blue she sends me a message late on a Saturday night. She's in town and asks if I want to meet up. My spidey-sense starts tingling... is this what I think it is? I check her FaceBook... yup looks like she broke up with her BF.

I meet her at the bar and the rest is history.

I didn't do anything with my time that I wasn't already going to do but I chose to surround myself with women while doing it.

I think people are getting hung up with the definition of 'friend'.

Post: #33

(01-08-2018 08:42 PM)Razor Beast Wrote:  Game these days is like working a second full time job. How does anyone have any time for anything else? Maybe I am the anomaly that has to do things differently than the average guy on this forum. I don't know.

So maybe you should run your social life like a business and not a job.

Post: #34

I’m with Hank on this one. I used to dread the friend zone with women. I score with a lot of women but also have a lot of female friends and have been put in the friend zone quite a bit.

However, looking back on it I’d say about 50% of the girls that put me in the friend zone I ended up hooking up with later. Or if we didn’t hook up, they introduced me to their friends and I hooked up with them. Female friends can also be useful for advice on what to get my girl for her bday, fashion, bars, new restaurants to try, vacations etc. I’ve gotten some great advice throughout the years from some female friends I really trust and have my back.

I work in a heavily female dominated industry and tend to make friends/acquaintances with a lot of the women I work with. I can’t tell you how many times a girl I used to work with has recommended me for a job, offered me a job, made me more money somehow. Girls can be useful for more than just fucking, they can add value to your life but you have to be open to it.

They can be loyal to their guy friends who they value and trust, ive seen it over and over again with my situation.

Post: #35

I'd like to just add kino is the quickest way out of the friend zone. Can't tell you how many times I "hung out with a chick" only to be fucking 2 hours later.

You know the drill, start off with some light brushing, but by the end of the "hang out" you should have your hand gripping her ass or your arm around her and it will feel perfectly natrual for the both of you if you were congruent. Like hank said, never mention the status of your friendship. Treat it like a date and kino her right to your pad (or hers) to listen to that crazy song...

Post: #36

(01-08-2018 08:26 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  One day I'll do an actual post about this... benefits of female friends:

- Quickest way to elevate your social circle game.

- Excellent insight into the hamster wheel.

- Some can actually add value and insight to your life.

- They're good for business.

- Instant pre-selection and "non-creepy" when you go to a bar and a portion of your social circle is hot girls.

Great points and I'm not disagreeing with any of those. But like I mentioned earlier...you're kind of using these girls as a means to some kind of end.

For instance, I never think of my male friends in this way. I just genuinely enjoy their company. They make me laugh and we legit have a good time out doing shit or whatever. Nothing more than that. When we were kids, we would ride bikes around the neighborhood, steal our dad's Playboys, throw rocks at girls, play G.I. Joe....whatever. Obviously when you get older your entertainment changes (I still play GI Joe) but the friendship bonds you form with other males cannot be replicated with females.

What would you talk about? Make-up tips? The latest episode of Bachelor? Sally's poor choice of wardrobe? Personally, I just cannot imagine one single thing that I would have any ounce of interest in from a female. Sure, I'll listen to her babble about puppy dogs and ice cream if my goal is to get into her pants at the end of the night.

Like a poster mentioned earlier, perhaps it's just the way we're defining 'friendship'. I have 0 female friends, but I do have a lot of female acquaintances. Girls that I know that enhance my life in other ways besides friendship. Like you mentioned:

(01-08-2018 08:26 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  It's the same with women - some are just fun to hang at the bar with. Some add something of substance. Some I'm banging but I can't really stand to be around. Some I like being around but wish she were hotter. I have two female friends who I consider "inner circle." The rest are acquaintances and party homies.

That, IMO, is not friendship. I would never claim to have a friend that I "can't stand to be around". That just simply isn't a friend. And, again, how does a female add something of substance to a conversation? Besides giving her opinion from a female perspective? (which, honestly, I give zero fucks about).

(01-08-2018 08:26 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  Considering that you can choose how much time and investment you're willing to put into a friendship, there's no downside to having women friends.

That's the thing, I don't really intentionally put in any time for my friendships with my (male) friends. I mean, I guess I do by spending time hanging out with them but I don't really look at it as 'putting in time'. More of a "hey, I have fun hanging out with Steve and Ron playing GI Joes so that's what I'm going to do on my Saturday night".

And also, perhaps the biggest reason not to have female friends is: They stab their female friends in the back ALL THE TIME. Especially when they are jealous of one another. Why would I subject myself to that?

Post: #37

(01-09-2018 09:45 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  What would you talk about? Make-up tips? The latest episode of Bachelor? Sally's poor choice of wardrobe? Personally, I just cannot imagine one single thing that I would have any ounce of interest in from a female. Sure, I'll listen to her babble about puppy dogs and ice cream if my goal is to get into her pants at the end of the night.

Here are some of the things I talk about with my female friends:

1. Travel: Where we've been, where we want to go, recommendations, tips.
2. Music: New music recommendations, local bands, upcoming concerts.
3. Food: Restaurants, recipes, healthy eating.
4: Reading: Books or articles we've read or have heard about.
5. Art/History/Science: Museums, exhibitions, galleries we've been to or want to see.

The activities that I do with my female friends:

1. Hang out at a bar, pub or restaurant. (This happens least often as I consider it an inefficient use of my time).
2. Go to street markets; food, vintage clothes.
3. Go to museums, exhibitions, galleries, the cinema, concerts and local gigs.
4. Take classes (cooking, dancing, languages).

I live in a large city so there's no shortage of women with varying interests to do things with. I can imagine it's different if you live in a suburban area with nothing but malls.

Post: #38

This thread, and life in general, would be simpler if men think of women as entertainment instead of friends.

"Friends" is tossed around easily these days. Some guys are cool to hang around playing video games and doing shots with, but not someone you call up at 3Am when you are in a bind. With this in mind, women can fill these roles.

Most people are acquaintances. But women can never go above entertainment, unless she is family member or your wife.

Hank is clearly using women as entertainment and asset. He sure as hell isn't calling them to help out in a bind.

Post: #39

The 'friend zone' is where you should put girls who are too heavy, too short, or too damn crazy. Also married chicks you actually enjoy spending time with [probably rare].

Post: #40

This is not a good Thread title.

Friend zone is when a woman clearly knows the guy is into her and uses it for her advantage, getting a pussy pass for everything from the chump.

By the way, no manly man ever gets friendzoned, no matter how nice guy he is.


What is being discussed here is about the pros and cons of having female friends or acquaintances, which is another subject.

Post: #41

(01-09-2018 10:04 AM)IntrovertSigma Wrote:  

(01-09-2018 09:45 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  What would you talk about? Make-up tips? The latest episode of Bachelor? Sally's poor choice of wardrobe? Personally, I just cannot imagine one single thing that I would have any ounce of interest in from a female. Sure, I'll listen to her babble about puppy dogs and ice cream if my goal is to get into her pants at the end of the night.

Here are some of the things I talk about with my female friends:

1. Travel: Where we've been, where we want to go, recommendations, tips.
2. Music: New music recommendations, local bands, upcoming concerts.
3. Food: Restaurants, recipes, healthy eating.
4: Reading: Books or articles we've read or have heard about.
5. Art/History/Science: Museums, exhibitions, galleries we've been to or want to see.

The activities that I do with my female friends:

1. Hang out at a bar, pub or restaurant. (This happens least often as I consider it an inefficient use of my time).
2. Go to street markets; food, vintage clothes.
3. Go to museums, exhibitions, galleries, the cinema, concerts and local gigs.
4. Take classes (cooking, dancing, languages).

I live in a large city so there's no shortage of women with varying interests to do things with. I can imagine it's different if you live in a suburban area with nothing but malls.

Why don't you sleep with them then? These are date ideas! You know, things you would do with a girlfriend...

If a man can barely spend time with a woman he loves and is sleeping with, how can you make time for this bullshit for women you're not attracted to?... or God forbid are, but too pussy to make a move. The latter being the definition of the friend zone, and destroys OP's argument.

You natural betas really do have some advantages. I can't even spend that much time with my sister, who I love very dearly.

Post: #42

Advice on the friend zone from a woman that is actually pretty good.

Post: #43

Its pretty easy.you have to know how to kino girls early in the interaction, ive never ever been friend zoned, its very beta behaviour, if a girl will not sleep with me after 2 dates i will simply move on.life is too short to waste .

Post: #44

Post: #45

(01-10-2018 12:13 AM)Rocha Wrote:  This is not a good Thread title.

Friend zone is when a woman clearly knows the guy is into her and uses it for her advantage, getting a pussy pass for everything from the chump.

By the way, no manly man ever gets friendzoned, no matter how nice guy he is.


What is being discussed here is about the pros and cons of having female friends or acquaintances, which is another subject.

I have female acquaintances that I am perfectly comfortable with. They mainly come from work. One I play squash with every Saturday. I'll be honest and say yes I have been friendzoned but I put that down indecisiveness on my part. Being in the FSU, it is very difficult to make a damn decision when there are so many hotties around.

The 3 date rule applies in about 50/50 cases. There are times when the dyev will say that she needs more time and I respect that. I know when to push it and when not to. It hasn't failed me yet.

Post: #46

(11-03-2018 02:30 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Man, look at how his pants and socks are configured. Faggot.