Post: #1

Don’t spend tons of money on dates; It’s a foolish thing to do.

If a woman only sleeps with a man because he takes her out on expensive dates, is she a gold-digger or a prostitute?

CAUTION. Some men are completely fine with shelling out money on dates, knowing that the women are only with them for the money. This is simply an elegant version of P4P. However, I understand why some men do it. They may look like an ogre, lack game, or they may be going after attractive women and the only way they know how to get laid is to constantly wine and dine them. If it’s not broke don’t fix it? Sure, it’s your prerogative.

I will not be shelling out money on these hoes.
If a woman is genuinely interested in you, she will sleep with you without having to buy her lobsters and steaks. Since we’re on the subject of dinner, let’s talk about that.

I for one, rarely do dinner dates. ESPECIALLY for first dates. Going to restaurants can add up. She might want an appetizer, then an entrée, then some drinks. NO. NO. NO. This isn’t the 1950’s where women date one person at a time. You can take a woman out to eat, and after you’re done paying for the date, she goes out with another guy and he pays for that date. Then there are the dinner-whore extremist. They’ll go out on dinner dates at least 4 times a week with 4 different guys and all of them pay for the date. When it comes to going on dates and getting laid, you want to spend as less as possible. Women can be ruthless, I’ve personally seen women string some of my friends along, make them pay for multiple dates and kick them to the curb when the start complaining about not having sex yet.

This is why I like to go to café’s on first dates. Café’s are inexpensive, the most you’ll probably spend is 8 bucks. Also, it’s a quiet environment where you can talk, learn more about her and run game. The chances of fucking right after a café date are low, depending on how you play it. If the café date is going well, ask her if she would like to go to the bar. This is where logistics come into play. When I go on first dates, I’ll pick a café that’s close to the bar, and close to my place. This may be difficult to do if you’re traveling to a new place, and you’re not familiar with the bars. I would always pick a bar that had good drink prices, and specials. One of the bars I would pick didn’t sell food.

This next part is important.
DO NOT START A TAB at the bar. Bring Cash. I would take my dates to the bar and we would order our two drinks, I would pay for that round of drinks immediately. When the bartender would ask if we like another round, they always say yeah and then I’ll wait for a split second to see if they’re going to pay for it. There’s been plenty of times they would pay for the second round as they feel inclined to, it’s psychological. They see me pull my money out and pay for the first round, now it’s kind of like their turn to pay for the next one. From my experience they usually pay the second or third round. On a side-note, knowing how to read women goes a long way. Specifically, being able to know if the date is going well and knowing if she’s interested in you. If you met her online and she’s a cat-fish, abort mission immediately. This is another reason why I like cafes, if I met the woman off tinder and she’s a cat-fish it’s easy to walk right out that mother-fucker. Also if the date isn’t going well, it’s easy to cut it short and you’ve only spent 6 – 8 bucks.

The whole point is to spend as less as possible while trying to get her to your place or getting invited to her place.

Other cheap dates consist of going to the park, free festivals, house parties, or drinks at your place.

Women can be ironic. They want equality when it benefits them. How are we equals if I’m expected to pay for everything. You have legs, arms, and feet, you can work. I have bills just like you, yet I’m supposed to pay for your slew of dinners and entertainment expenses? Doesn’t sound equal to me.

Post: #2

Post: #3

When I was new to game I set this rule for myself too. It's useful for a while, if you're new to game you don't want to be used. You want to prove to yourself you can sleep with women that actually want to sleep with you not use you for resources.

As you get more adept you'll realize you're leaving pussy on the table through these arbitrary rules you set for yourself. Capital gives you ACCESS, that's really all it's cost effective for. I wouldn't recommend to anyone to buy your way into a girls pants, extremely bad ROI. I wouldn't even recommend an expensive dinner date when you're trying to try the goods, it's a bad strategy unless it's something you actually want to do and you can control frame enough to where it doesn't hurt you.

Also you might not only be leaving pussy on the table but MONEY on the table. How? Have you ever dated a rich girl that pays for everything and buys you shit? Well, if you have arbitrary rules like that you won't, or at least not for very long. You can build social capital with your capital (and obviously game) and you can leverage that social capital back into actual capital/goods/services. Keep playing player, you'll learn.


If you're just trying to run through some hoes there's a first date bang formula over here that's pretty good.

/thread-8681.html

I run a variation of that where I invite girls over to my pad for dinner. It rarely fails. I live in a shitty part of town in a dilapidated building that's often pretty mess (unless I get one of my plates or LTRs to clean it, I haven't cleaned personally in ages), the only plus is it's about 10m away from anywhere in my city, so it's central. You don't need a central apartment for this style to work for you but it may take you paying for uber or giving the bitch a ride (ACCESS strikes again through logistics).Get your text game down, learn to cook some basic dishes, basic escalation game and you'll be spending ~$20 to get laid in your own house, eating food that you like, drinking drinks you like, with nobody else to through salt in your game. If you're good you can leverage some of those lays into access to other social circles, personal favors, stuff, or maybe just fun times with a girl you like.

Also stuff like that helps set a frame for a relationship if you choose to explore it, even if it's just a plate, even if it's just a fuck-and-leave type situation. It lets the girl know that she's coming to join YOUR life on YOUR time. Not to expect fancy dinners all the time in places you would never go yourself. Let's her know that you're the leader and you set the terms. You may want to take girls out sometimes, it's fun sometimes they make good company. It's also good to know how she interacts with people if you're considering making her your MLTR or LTR - if she treats service staff well, if she can decide what she wants to eat or she needs you to, if she is fine with you ordering/speaking for her. It's not a useless exercise but I wouldn't lead with it.

Post: #4

(11-01-2018 09:23 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  When I was new to game I set this rule for myself too. It's useful for a while, if you're new to game you don't want to be used. You want to prove to yourself you can sleep with women that actually want to sleep with you not use you for resources.

As you get more adept you'll realize you're leaving pussy on the table through these arbitrary rules you set for yourself. Also you might not only be leaving pussy on the table but MONEY on the table. How? Have you ever dated a rich girl that pays for everything and buys you shit? Well, if you have arbitrary rules like that you won't, or at least not for very long. You can build social capital with your capital (and obviously game) and you can leverage that social capital back into actual capital/goods/services. Keep playing player, you'll learn.

There are definitely variables in play. A lot of this is predicated on the individual, the type of woman and country/city. This was mainly for chicks you just want to have sex with, maybe bang a couple times and call it a day. However, there are always exceptions to the rules. Like as you mentioned a successful woman, a girl you may really like and its legit genuine. Then obviously we can go to dinner etc. My whole thing is that she has to prove herself first. Once that's there then yeah, I'm not a complete cheapskate. I still wont pay for everything though lol.

Post: #5

All girls I've ever LTR'd started out as girls I just wanted to bang. In my mind all bangable girls are basically the same. They do things to win my favor or to lose it and then we move on from there. The frame of "prove yourself" is a strong one, that should almost always be your default it sets the frame correctly.

If you made decent money and a girl has proven herself and you've gamed her correctly and you have no reason to believe she will deviate from that. Would you mind spending 5%-10% of your income on her? If she's a good match for you and fulfills her role correctly she ideally will provide more than 5%-10% of your incomes value. Look man, I'm pretty cheap and i've finally got to a point where I'm making alright money. If my requirements are being met and exceeded I would have NO PROBLEM spending 10% of my income on a girl because in that situation she would be providing far more in value. So if I have a plate that cleans my house, does my dishes, adds a bright feminine energy to my life I have no problem spending a little extra to take her out she's already invested far more into me and given me more value than a $60 dinner that I personally would enjoy and want to do anyway

Remember that money is a measurement of value and a way to spend value. Sometimes it's actually a poor one but lets not get into that here. It's not the only measurement of value, and it's surely not the only way to demonstrate or exchange value. There are women that you will meet (people too) that add immense value to your life with very little money exchange, and also women that add a lot of value while lots of money is exchange.

The key is to always have the girl investing more of her value into you than you are into her, no matter what form it comes in.If you don't, for some reason it short circuits their brains and makes it that much harder for you to game properly. They wonder why you're investing so much for not very much in return. It gives them the idea that regardless of the reality that you are a low value man and she can do better. Women are submissive beings, they need to be reassured constantly that their submission is warranted. They want to submit to someone that they think is better than them and the best they can get at the moment, if you're just transferring a bunch of value to her she'll think she's the more valuable one and the ensuing power dynamic shift is enough to make any man miserable. Money is just one part of that equation, game will teach you the rest.

As far as spending a bunch of money on dates, I mean of course not. Why would you do that before you've met someone. The message you'd be sending would essentially be "HERE TAKE MY VALUE, I WANT TO INVEST IN YOU" a reasonable person would ask like "why are you investing, do you have insider information here" and the message being relayed again would be "NO, I JUST KNOW IT HAS A VAGINA". Nobody here as advocating spending a ton of money on dates or giving women (or people) your value with no implied social contract, it's just silly.

Post: #6

There is no denying that no matter how good your game is, or how high your SMV is, you can bang a few points higher if you use "provider game" and spend a few dollars.

Chicks are drawn to the cash and provider like we are to slim girls with long hair. Its biological.

If you don't want to spend, then that's ok.

I'm happy to spend a few bucks to bang above my SMV.

You have to be very, very careful you don't end up a incel provider, or spending without the return (buying dinner no bang)

You still need to have regular game.

So always use provider game with care and keep a tab.

Another reason is as Hank says, if you like a steak dinner, and you enjoy her company, then don't be a tightass. She waxed her Whoo-Ha for you, pick up the tab.

Post: #7

I often take girls to fast food place. McDonalds be fine. Always buy myself something and offer her the great opportunity to buy herself something as well. Works great on spoiled girls who expect me to take 'em out to some fancy wine tasting session.

Sometimes I take a girl to the Red Light District. Just to give myself a laugh. Surprisingly girls like it. One girl even called it "best date ever".

Guess nobody else is crazy enough to do this. At least I am not boring.

Post: #8

If OP had any logic he'd use the search function before posting recycled advice - lord help us if he finds out team appetizers vs team no appetizers.

Post: #9

Your statement is chaotic.

Post: #10

(11-02-2018 12:49 PM)Logic2066 Wrote:  Your statement is chaotic.

That's real original, like your "post".

As a newbie next time use the search function, and you'll find hundreds of posts already written on the subject.

Every guy on here already knows not to wine and dine girls, that's beating a dead horse on the forum.

Every guy on here knows to spend their time and money wisely when it comes to women.

If you think everything is P4P on dates then you've already gone down the wrong path.

Nickel and diming dates to death isn't the way to go.

Post: #11

Wait...this isn't a bumped thread from 2010?

Post: #12

Thanks. It was real original, maybe I should've used the search function for, "your statement is chaotic". "Every guy on here already knows not to wine and dine girls" what about the people who joined in the last 5 months? Do they all know?
Also, when did I say I think everything is P4P on dates? Another chaotic statement by 'Kaotic".

Post: #13

Yes they know, they read the forum rules and use the search function and bump older threads already created on a long over written subject.

Your OP isn't anything unique or giving us any "insight".

I'd also advice on trying to insult senior members, you won't last long here.

I'll forgive you for being passive aggressive and arrogant since you're a newbie.

Post: #14

I don't think this thread is going in the direction OP hoped for

Post: #15

(11-02-2018 01:55 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Yes they know, they read the forum rules and use the search function and bump older threads already created on a long over written subject.

Your OP isn't anything unique or giving us any "insight".

I'd also advice on trying to insult senior members, you won't last long here.

I'll forgive you for being passive aggressive and arrogant since you're a newbie.

Looking at the OP, you started with the insults, passive aggressiveness etc. I simply responded.

Post: #16

Don't be so tough on yourself (and the girls by the way), OP.

Some good rules of thumb I use:
- Are you having a nice conversation (more than a few lines) with the girl, even if only in Tinder?
- Have you seen many pictures of the girl without photoshop in IG or FB and she looks good?
- Would you go to that type of restaurant or bar with your friends in a normal night?
- Are you in the mood to eat out?
- Will you be comfortable in paying for her dinner without any expectations that you will bang?

If answer is yes to all questions, just do it... I often go for dinner dates with girls, with very interesting outcomes, and I think it doesn't hurt me, quite the opposite: they will be more open to drink (and it can be followed with the bar drinks after), you will play some gender roles there (even if soft) with you serving drinks, talking to waiter etc, eating makes ppl feel comfortable as well.

Post: #17

One thing I've failed to mention in OP is location. This is particularly pertaining to North America. I understand that game needs to be tailored to the location, culture and women. Everything i've listed may not be the best move if you're in Russia/Ukraine or other countries in EE or CE. Going to dinner in Russia/Ukraine is significantly cheaper than going out to dinner in NA.

Post: #18

(11-01-2018 09:13 PM)Logic2066 Wrote:  ...I’ve personally seen women string some of my friends along, make them pay for multiple dates and kick them to the curb when the start complaining about not having sex yet. ...

If you want to help someone then Id suggest you direct your chumpy friends to this forum. If they bother to use the search function and read some of the myriad of posts on the subject they will surely derive great benefit. It might even save their lives before they become suicidal incel rampagers. Paying for dinners is probably the least of their problems

This topic has been covered ad nauseum and was retread numerous times

Example:

(12-05-2016 04:12 AM)Yves555 Wrote:  Ok, so let's get this thing straight up, I always paid in my dates for everything - dinner,yacht party, cinema,(and hotels for one night stands) or whatever activity we did. Now I don't have any problem to pay always but I read in the forums here that the men shouldn't pay for women especially in the first date.

So what's the right thing to do? And what about LTR should the men pay always too? Don't you think it's primitive? Because today some women make much more money than men so I don't think that this "rule" is still relevant.

From my experience I know that some women would be disgusted from cheap broke ass man, and some women just like to take advantage of nice men and get free meals.

(12-05-2016 04:32 AM)John_Galt Wrote:  This forum has a search function. Please utilize it.

This topic has been beaten to death, resurrected, killed again, zombified, and then decapitated.

Heres a handful that go back 6-7 years


/thread-59749...ght=paying

/thread-35115...ght=paying

/thread-36002...ght=dinner

Post: #19

Let's not forget the most important one:

/thread-41010.html

Post: #20

(11-01-2018 09:13 PM)Logic2066 Wrote:  Don’t spend tons of money on dates; It’s a foolish thing to do.

If a woman only sleeps with a man because he takes her out on expensive dates, is she a gold-digger or a prostitute?

CAUTION. Some men are completely fine with shelling out money on dates, knowing that the women are only with them for the money. This is simply an elegant version of P4P. However, I understand why some men do it. They may look like an ogre, lack game, or they may be going after attractive women and the only way they know how to get laid is to constantly wine and dine them. If it’s not broke don’t fix it? Sure, it’s your prerogative.

I will not be shelling out money on these hoes.
If a woman is genuinely interested in you, she will sleep with you without having to buy her lobsters and steaks. Since we’re on the subject of dinner, let’s talk about that.

I for one, rarely do dinner dates. ESPECIALLY for first dates. Going to restaurants can add up. She might want an appetizer, then an entrée, then some drinks. NO. NO. NO. This isn’t the 1950’s where women date one person at a time. You can take a woman out to eat, and after you’re done paying for the date, she goes out with another guy and he pays for that date. Then there are the dinner-whore extremist. They’ll go out on dinner dates at least 4 times a week with 4 different guys and all of them pay for the date. When it comes to going on dates and getting laid, you want to spend as less as possible. Women can be ruthless, I’ve personally seen women string some of my friends along, make them pay for multiple dates and kick them to the curb when the start complaining about not having sex yet.

This is why I like to go to café’s on first dates. Café’s are inexpensive, the most you’ll probably spend is 8 bucks. Also, it’s a quiet environment where you can talk, learn more about her and run game. The chances of fucking right after a café date are low, depending on how you play it. If the café date is going well, ask her if she would like to go to the bar. This is where logistics come into play. When I go on first dates, I’ll pick a café that’s close to the bar, and close to my place. This may be difficult to do if you’re traveling to a new place, and you’re not familiar with the bars. I would always pick a bar that had good drink prices, and specials. One of the bars I would pick didn’t sell food.

This next part is important.
DO NOT START A TAB at the bar. Bring Cash. I would take my dates to the bar and we would order our two drinks, I would pay for that round of drinks immediately. When the bartender would ask if we like another round, they always say yeah and then I’ll wait for a split second to see if they’re going to pay for it. There’s been plenty of times they would pay for the second round as they feel inclined to, it’s psychological. They see me pull my money out and pay for the first round, now it’s kind of like their turn to pay for the next one. From my experience they usually pay the second or third round. On a side-note, knowing how to read women goes a long way. Specifically, being able to know if the date is going well and knowing if she’s interested in you. If you met her online and she’s a cat-fish, abort mission immediately. This is another reason why I like cafes, if I met the woman off tinder and she’s a cat-fish it’s easy to walk right out that mother-fucker. Also if the date isn’t going well, it’s easy to cut it short and you’ve only spent 6 – 8 bucks.

The whole point is to spend as less as possible while trying to get her to your place or getting invited to her place.

Other cheap dates consist of going to the park, free festivals, house parties, or drinks at your place.

Women can be ironic. They want equality when it benefits them. How are we equals if I’m expected to pay for everything. You have legs, arms, and feet, you can work. I have bills just like you, yet I’m supposed to pay for your slew of dinners and entertainment expenses? Doesn’t sound equal to me.

I'm fine with not wining and dining bitches but if you are soooo obsessed with not spending money, why spend any at all? Be more direct with your approaches so women know that you are looking for sex, and if you meet women on tinder etc just invite them over, or work on seducing them to the point where they want to come over. That way u never have to go out and spend any money. Yeah u may miss out on some women but there are plenty out there who will be willing to fuck off the bat if your game is right