Post: #201

For sure we can tear some asses there as they say here.I am already pipelining.We can also put bets who will lay the most.I am sure each one can help the other immensely it is good to have wings in Ukraine.Three cabaleros can make the city explode.

Post: #202

(03-30-2012 01:03 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  For sure we can tear some asses there as they say here.I am already pipelining.We can also put bets who will lay the most.I am sure each one can help the other immensely it is good to have wings in Ukraine.Three cabaleros can make the city explode.

It would almost be worth traveling to Ukraine just to watch this.

Post: #203

I'm free end of April and would be more then happy to fly in and film some in-field footage for posterity. I think the whole forum would like to see Greek using his 'Balkan Power'.

Post: #204

I will bring my "bulging Serbian biceps".

Damn, better hit the steroids now

Post: #205

Please make this happen. I need a Bang Ukraine done this summer as I plan to head there in September.

Post: #206

(03-30-2012 01:54 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  All the parks where I am have great pavements and there's very few strays

I guess the locals who can afford to live in the area you rent the apartment taking their walks on the Nice beach.

BTW, what city are you in? I gonna be in Ukraine in two weeks.

Post: #207

This doesn't surprise me. As I said some time ago, the clubs in Ukraine are NOT the places where people come to hook up (especially if you consider that there is really no hookup culture in Ukraine the way it exists in the Western countries). Hookups are, of course, still possible, but the chance is probably as low as getting the hookup from a day game.

Looking through it the nerdy way, a typical Western ONS club hookup is

a) purely emotional (any amount of logic substracts value)
b) fast-paced (let's say less than two hours and may be as low as 15 minutes)
c) mostly uses light/humorous conversation, avoiding the deep topics.

Regarding a): Ukrainian girls are as emotional as everyone else but they control their emotions very well. As I said before the culture teaches us to keep our emotions under the tight control when you're talking to strangers. To give you an idea, you tell her in a bar she just won million bucks on a scratch lottery ticket and all you'll get from her is "well, that's good". It is that tight. This makes it very difficult to calibrate properly, because you're not going to see the reaction until you start seeing the slightest changes. Add to this that it is close to impossible to pierce the emotional armor they surround themselves until they start trusting you. This means you need to start with more functional/logical talk and establish the rapport on those topics. Only then she might open up enough.

Unfortunately the logical-emotional progression breaks up the necessary fast pace. Not only that, it is not likely you gonna have a lot of time with a girl in a club just by yourself. If she drops her friends just to talk to a stranger for an hour, she'd be insulting them - and the friends are much more valuable here comparing to America (it is common agreement among Russians here that there is no real friendship in US, only buddies).

And the humor is probably the most difficult part here. To get her laughing for real - and not just for the politeness - you'd need to speak pretty good Russian, and have the good understanding of the culture (the experience of watching the old Soviet era comedies like "Diamond hand" or "Ivan Vasilievich gets another job" is a must). You cannot use the Western humor there.

Did you try to approach the club scene as if it was day game in the US, with the same strategy and expectations? The first thing the girl you approach thinks is "why is he talking to me?" so this would be closer to the state they are. Remember the population there is very risk averse, and when they meet a stranger they're much more concerned about getting hurt/played, and not concerned at all about missing some cool new experience.

(03-30-2012 06:15 AM)Roosh Wrote:  1. Guys getting tables and inviting girls to drink with them.

This might work, but this is mostly passive strategy. And you cannot do it alone, you need to have someone with you there and obviously have fun so the girls would be interested to join the fun, not just to get free drinks.

Quote:3. Guys doing approaches to girls who give almost no response, so the guy does 95% of the talking, sometimes 100%.

That's how it really works there. If she's doing half of the talk, she's picking you up, not vice versa.

Post: #208

(03-30-2012 08:24 AM)Roosh Wrote:  Would you guys call Ukrainian girls "simple minded"?
I don't mean that to insult, but from a Western perspective, that's the first word that pops to mind.

Isn't it amazing that "simple minded" is exactly how I would describe the American girls if I only had two words and no time to explain?

The way I see it now is that our cultures are so different that they only intersect in a very small area (mostly functional communications) - and this is the only area we actually can talk. Anywhere outside this area we just don't understand each others.

Think of it: you go to a club there, you look around and it seems like a lot of people there have as much fun as if they were attending a funeral. And I go to a club here in US and I look around and it seems like a lot of people there are on drugs as there is simply no other reason to be so excited for nothing.

Post: #209

(03-30-2012 10:41 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  This doesn't surprise me. As I said some time ago, the clubs in Ukraine are NOT the places where people come to hook up (especially if you consider that there is really no hookup culture in Ukraine the way it exists in the Western countries). Hookups are, of course, still possible, but the chance is probably as low as getting the hookup from a day game.

Looking through it the nerdy way, a typical Western ONS club hookup is

a) purely emotional (any amount of logic substracts value)
b) fast-paced (let's say less than two hours and may be as low as 15 minutes)
c) mostly uses light/humorous conversation, avoiding the deep topics.

Regarding a): Ukrainian girls are as emotional as everyone else but they control their emotions very well. As I said before the culture teaches us to keep our emotions under the tight control when you're talking to strangers. To give you an idea , you tell her in a bar she just won million bucks on a scratch lottery ticket and all you'll get from her is "well, that's good". It is that tight. This makes it very difficult to calibrate properly, because you're not going to see the reaction until you start seeing the slightest changes. Add to this that it is close to impossible to pierce the emotional armor they surround themselves until they start trusting you. This means you need to start with more functional/logical talk and establish the rapport on those topics. Only then she might open up enough.

Unfortunately the logical-emotional progression breaks up the necessary fast pace. Not only that, it is not likely you gonna have a lot of time with a girl in a club just
by yourself. If she drops her friends just to talk to a stranger for an hour, she'd be insulting them - and the friends are much more valuable here comparing to America (it is common agreement among Russians here that there is no real friendship in US, only buddies).

And the humor is probably the most difficult part here. To get her laughing for real
- and not just for the politeness - you'd need to speak pretty good Russian, and have the good understanding of the culture (the experience of watching the old Soviet era comedies like "Diamond hand" or "Ivan Vasilievich gets another job" is a must). You cannot use the Western humor there.

Did you try to approach the club scene as if it was day game in the US, with the same strategy and expectations? The first thing the girl you approach thinks is "why is he talking to me?" so this would be closer to the state they are. Remember the population there is very risk averse, and when they meet a stranger they're much more concerned about getting hurt/played, and not concerned at all about missing some cool new experience.

(03-30-2012 06:15 AM)Roosh Wrote:  1. Guys getting tables and inviting girls to drink with them.

This might work, but this is mostly passive strategy. And you cannot do it alone, you need to have someone with you there and obviously have fun so the girls would be interested to join the fun, not just to get free drinks.

Quote:3. Guys doing approaches to girls who give almost no response, so the guy does 95% of the talking, sometimes 100%.

That's how it really works there. If she's doing half of the talk, she's picking you up, not vice versa.

Good post.

Post: #210

Three more things to add:

1. Be more reserved with your conversation. As kids we have been taught that "words are silver but silence is gold" and "you have two ears and only one mouth, so you need to listen twice more than you speak"; being labeled as chatterer/windbag is pretty much a death blow. Flirting routines like "pretending you're married and got a divorce then argue who gets DVD collection" works on American chicks but such routine may make Ukrainian chick think you're crazy and this is not good. Use those as spices only. Remember, people are paying attention to every word you're saying.

2. Avoid jokes about the people around you. "People watching" seem to be popular in the US, but it is very frowned upon in Ukraine and may lead to some serious consequences. If you're talking about some other dude, she may know him, or her friend may know him. So if you said something like that, for example, and she tells her friend who'd tell the dude, it is very likely he and a couple of his friends will come up "to talk" with a good chance of a fight. Especially avoid any gay references, because if you call dude a gay and he didn't beat you up this means he's a fag and he'd lose all the respect of his friends.

3. Don't make enemies. Making friends is good, but not making enemies is more important unless you're leaving tomorrow. Russians have long memory, and they never forget any wrongdoing. Even if that person is much smaller than you. He may have a few criminal friends or a relative in the local police, and he wouldn't mind asking them to help.

Post: #211

(03-30-2012 09:49 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 01:54 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  All the parks where I am have great pavements and there's very few strays

I guess the locals who can afford to live in the area you rent the apartment taking their walks on the Nice beach.

BTW, what city are you in? I gonna be in Ukraine in two weeks.

No, there are good places to exercise everywhere in Ukraine, unless you want to make excuses of course.

I'm in Lemberg at the moment, have a friend coming in about two weeks also should be a nice party

Post: #212

(03-30-2012 10:41 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  This doesn't surprise me. As I said some time ago, the clubs in Ukraine are NOT the places where people come to hook up

This is also the case in the Balkans, more so in fact.

Post: #213

Good stuff from oldnem... really matches my experience.

While I don't think I've met true golddiggers yet, I noticed the girls here don't care if they give you low value for the time and money you spent into them, especially before the bang.

Examples:

-Spent a few hours with a girl in the club, kept the drinks coming, but no kiss at the end. Give me a break. Total waste of the night.

-Nice date, she asked me for taxicab fare, which threw me off, but the kiss I get was so weak. Should have let her walk home.

In both cases I haven't hit them up again. It's just too slow for me. I give but am not receiving what I think is sufficient intimacy.

I'm learning that most girls have a fuckbuddy, so it's why they're able to move slow and not display any sign of horniness. My first instinct was to think that these girls don't care about sex, but truth is they're all getting it from some guy. So this neighborhood guy gets easy pussy, while I'm sweating my ass off for measly droppings. In other countries, even if the girl had a fuckbuddy, she'd still be horny and bang quickly. But here they can really hold back. It seems like their entire game is "don't show any interest." I can spend an hour with a girl here and have no idea where I stand.

Post: #214

I have already described that slavic girls have:
1.A sponsor
2.A future groom
3.A lover
Because these qualities seldom coincide in the same person.So one has to play one of the above mentioned roles.In this case you choose.For example I can be a spondor to one girl who has another guy as a lover and a lover for another girl who has already on the tracks another guy for future groom while she gets sponsored by another one.The key in all cases is discretion.

Post: #215

(03-31-2012 09:01 AM)Roosh Wrote:  Good stuff from oldnem... really matches my experience.

While I don't think I've met true golddiggers yet, I noticed the girls here don't care if they give you low value for the time and money you spent into them, especially before the bang.

Examples:

-Spent a few hours with a girl in the club, kept the drinks coming, but no kiss at the end. Give me a break. Total waste of the night.

-Nice date, she asked me for taxicab fare, which threw me off, but the kiss I get was so weak. Should have let her walk home.

In both cases I haven't hit them up again. It's just too slow for me. I give but am not receiving what I think is sufficient intimacy.

I'm learning that most girls have a fuckbuddy, so it's way they're able to move slow and not display any sign of horniness. My first instinct was to think that these girls don't care about sex, but truth is they're all getting it from some guy. So this neighborhood guy gets easy pussy, while I'm sweating my ass off for measly droppings. In other countries, even if the girl had a fuckbuddy, she'd still be horny and bang quickly. But here they can really hold back. It seems like their entire game is "don't show any interest." I can spend an hour with a girl here and have no idea where I stand.

1.Typical case of gold digger.She wanted more in terms of drinks,dinners,presents to allow access.
2.All Ukrainian girls(good or bad) ask for taxi fees.The bad ones ask usually for more than the taxi actually costs(they have friends who actually transport them who may fuck them as well if they want transportation for free).The good ones ask for exactly how much the taxi costs or can even get the bus in some cases(rare).

What other guys do with the same girls is totally irrelevant.There are no easy or hard to get girls.That one can sponsor and fuck a girl does not mean you can do the same.The same with lovers.
In Poland for example if a girl kisses an ugly guy she may easily sleep with a handsome guy or a rich guy however this is not the case in Ukraine.There is no ladder(aka girl having a general approachability giving feedback according to guy's appearance,game,wealth that is checking if she responds to other guys to know you are in the game as well).That happens in a degree of course when I see a beautiful girl walking hand in hand with a mofo type I know I can have her as well.The same the typical gold digger waking with full bags after shopping with her much older boyfriend.

Post: #216

Example of Russian sense of humor is the movie Gitler kaput.Russians,Ukrainians and Poles get the Russian humour.Generally all Slavs get it.You will be well off if you use Russian humour on any slavic girl she will get it.

Post: #217

Reading this thread has given a lot of insight into slavic culture and women, especially oldnemesis' and Greek kamaki's posts, however I'm still left with two lingering, fundamental questions:

1. What is the optimal strategy for getting in the pants of an attractive Russian/Ukrainian girl? (Clearly standard Western bar/club game isn't it.)
2. Is the effort worth it? (Personal opinion, no wrong answers.)

Post: #218

Post #1 in this thread:

Quote:I have no idea what the optimum game is.

Post #217, 9 pages later:

Quote:What is the optimal strategy?

Post: #219

(03-31-2012 01:06 PM)Soma Wrote:  Reading this thread has given a lot of insight into slavic culture and women, especially oldnemesis' and Greek kamaki's posts, however I'm still left with two lingering, fundamental questions:

1. What is the optimal strategy for getting in the pants of an attractive Russian/Ukrainian girl? (Clearly standard Western bar/club game isn't it.)
2. Is the effort worth it? (Personal opinion, no wrong answers.)

1.What do you mean by strategy?It is a combination.I try all the chances internet clubs street game and always something succeeds.I have never been to Ukraine without banging even if it were for two days.It is the easiest place for me.
2.Yes,it is compared to neighbouring countries.I have tried all of them and have my personal opinions.I have expressed many of them in the thread polish vs ukrainian girls.
As a general rule:
1.In Russia I manage to get the hottest girls(stunners 8s,9s) but the expenses are way above Ukraine.
2.In Ukraine I get the most quantity of girls around 7.
3.In Belarus I get some good looking girls but not in the quantity I get in Ukraine.
So in my opinion if you are budget oriented you should think about Poland.If you have money to spend Russia or Kiev is the best choice.If you are mostly interested in quantity and have a normal budget then Ukraine is the best choice.If you want girlfriend experience and quality with normal budget Belarus can be a good choice.
Most guys I suppose want to bang 7s and above spending normal amounts of money so Ukraine is the most fit for them in my opinion.It also depends on your personality.Ukraine is better for the risk hunter the person who likes the jungle.Nothing is taken for granted in terms of response of girls or of comforts or basic things.
Russia is good for the tough guy who does not mind the difficulties and possible bullying.For Russia you need some balls it is not an easy country(easy to enter difficult to exit as Napoleon found out as well).
Poland is good for the average guy who has limited success in his country and wants to increase the caliber and quantity of women he regularly bangs.
Belarus is fit only for the guy who has considerable experience in other countries like Ukraine,Russia and wants to use his knowledge to get access to relatively virgin nonetheless less open areas.

Post: #220

Some examples of talking to Ukrainian women:
-Are you from Kiev?
-Yes.
-Very nice city.
-Where you from?
-Grecja Ateny.
-Oh.
-Do you think this is the best club in town?
-I do not go often to clubs.
-I also prefer to walk around Kreshatik.
-How old are you?
-I am ...And you?
-I am ...
-Good age.And your girlfriend?
-Hey Masha,how old are you?She is ...
Where do you live?
-I live in apartment near the center.Ulice...
-Why did you come to Ukraine?
-It is my favourite country.You have nice rivers,lakes,forests and nice cities.I was also in Lvov.
-But you?From Greece?To Ukraine?What does Ukraine have?
-I do not know.I came here for holidays.
-For holidays?
-Yes,now the weather is a bit better so I came.What do you drink?
-I drink vodka.
-Interesting.
-Where do you work?
-I.. and you?
-I study.
-Lots of students in Ukraine.And Masha?
-She also studies.We stay together.
-I like Ukrainians.And Russians as well.Do you like Diskoteka Avarya?
-No.
-Russlana,Gaitana?
-No.
-Do you like TNMK?
-A bit.
-We had eurovision in Athens.Russlana is nice.But Serduska is a bit weird.Do you like Russians?
-What?
-I mean do you prefer Europe or Russia?
-I like more Russia.
-Oh,so you are not a fan of Timoshenko.
-She is a thief.
-And Yushenko?
-I hate him.With him we have nothing.All money got stolen.
-Yanukovich do you think is a solution?
-He is good.
-I think a guy like Putin would save Ukraine.
-I don't know.
-You need a real president.Without good president how can the economy go well?
-Exactly.
-What do you think about Banderas(Ukrainian nationalists in the West)
-They are ugly.They are crazy there.They have a road called Bandera and his sculpture oh my God.
-Yes,Poles suffered in the hands of Banderas.
-What?
-I say lots of Poles visit Lvov.
-Are you from Poland?
-No,Greece.
-I see.
-We are also orthodox like you.
-I do not believe.
-I also go rare to church.
-Why you have no wife?
-Greek women are not very good.
-Ukrainian are also not very good.
-But I like Slavs.What do you think about Ukrainian guys?
-They are ugly.They always drink and beat women.
-I think Russians are better.
-Yes.
-Russian guys are decent.They also know how to sort things out.
-Ukrainian guys are dumb.
-Probably.Pity here guys look like that.Maybe you want a taste of Balkan power.
-What?
-I say Balkans has Serbs and Bulgarians who are also Slavs.Nice guys.
-I was one time in Bulgaria.
-Where in Varna?
-No in Sunny Beach.
-Did you like it?
-Turkey was better.
-Do you like swimming tanning?
-Yes,I swim like a fish.
-In Greece we have very nice sea.
-I know.
-Do you like more Ukrainian borsh or zeleninovy borsh?
-I like all borsh.
-Me too.Ukrainian food is great.Especially picinka(liver).
-Yes.
-Do you like sushi?
-Sometimes.
-I have not tasted Ukrainian raw fish.It must be good.
-I have eaten it.So and so.
-We have very tasty fish in Mediteranean.And Greek salad.
-What?
-Olive oil.Do you know?
-Yes,here it is very expensive.
-I know.Do you like Bulgakov?
-Are you interested in literature?
-Yes,sometimes.
-I read sometimes.
-Do you paint as well?
-No.
-Now it is late.I think I will go.Do you have a phone number?
-Here is my number.
-Thank you.
-But tomorrow I will not be in town.
-Will you be in village?
-I will go for weekend to my parents.
-Good.If I stay here more than 3 days I will give you a call.
-O.K.
-Bye.

Post: #221

(03-31-2012 03:52 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  I'm in Lemberg at the moment, have a friend coming in about two weeks also should be a nice party

Unless they fixed all the parks in Lviv during the last year I really doubt it. Even the Kostyushko Park had some pretty crappy pavement, and it is one of the bests.

Post: #222

(03-31-2012 02:15 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  Three more things to add:

1. Be more reserved with your conversation. As kids we have been taught that "words are silver but silence is gold" and "you have two ears and only one mouth, so you need to listen twice more than you speak"; being labeled as chatterer/windbag is pretty much a death blow. Flirting routines like "pretending you're married and got a divorce then argue who gets DVD collection" works on American chicks but such routine may make Ukrainian chick think you're crazy and this is not good. Use those as spices only. Remember, people are paying attention to every word you're saying.

2. Avoid jokes about the people around you. "People watching" seem to be popular in the US, but it is very frowned upon in Ukraine and may lead to some serious consequences. If you're talking about some other dude, she may know him, or her friend may know him. So if you said something like that, for example, and she tells her friend who'd tell the dude, it is very likely he and a couple of his friends will come up "to talk" with a good chance of a fight. Especially avoid any gay references, because if you call dude a gay and he didn't beat you up this means he's a fag and he'd lose all the respect of his friends.

3. Don't make enemies. Making friends is good, but not making enemies is more important unless you're leaving tomorrow. Russians have long memory, and they never forget any wrongdoing. Even if that person is much smaller than you. He may have a few criminal friends or a relative in the local police, and he wouldn't mind asking them to help.

1 Agree, they dig the strong and silent type, rather than the nervous blabber mouth. That said, someone has to make the conversation, you need to talk to them very directly, just ask them simple questions, it might seem a bit lame, but they like this kind of small talk.

Luckilly this suits my personality, I am a very direct person.

2. I can't help but make fun of Ukrainian guys, I take videos of old guys making a fool of themselves in nightclubs and show it to my dates for a bit of banter, it's mostly well received. Sometimes I can't but help to give my honest opinion about Ukrainian men when with the girls(not flattering) 70% of the time they laugh and agree, sometimes they get a little offended, and I then say "oh but not your dad or your brother!, i'm sure they're lovely"

Due to the level of success I've had in this country, and the total lack of comeback for my libertine-esque behaviour, I simply do not care who I offend, the worse my behaviour the more value I seem to gain in the eyes of the women here.

3. Most guys don't start shit with me here, most Ukrainian men are not very strong and do not know how to fight. I'm 6'6', and although i'm only 205 lbs, it's enough to make most of them think twice.

I have been in a couple of situations here, only last week there was this fat disgusting guy at a nightclub here, he was in my face for something, he could have probably crushed me if he got his Gopnik claws on me, but these guys usually do not escalate.

I try to avoid scrapes though in general, i'm too pretty, don't want a broken nose from some low life Ukrainian, he's not worthy.

In this neck of the woods there is no need to get in scrapes, in Poland if you went over to a group of guys and girls and starting hitting on one girl, you would get you head pummeled in, here you can take her and the guys often won't do shit.

Post: #223

Roosh, those seem to be true golddiggers - they're just in their infancy. We even have a word for it - "dynamo". I'd expect the majority of attractive girls in the clubs to be like that. It takes some experience to be able to recognize those, and then you'll end up with a choice - either you go quo-pro-quo with them (which will cost you more than P4P), or you dump them.

True golddiggers operate in the most expensive clubs. They're looking for a specific type - older guys wearing expensive clothes/jewelry or otherwise flashing money, so you're not going to attract them.

Quote:-Spent a few hours with a girl in the club, kept the drinks coming, but no kiss at the end. Give me a break. Total waste of the night.

Here's the deal with the golddigger/sponsor looking type: this ain't fixed market, and the "price" is subject to negotiation and is trial-tested. She knows some men would give her free drinks just to keep her company, and some men would give her nothing until she opens up her legs. If you give her free drinks without getting anything back, this assumes you agree with this "low price", and you're not getting anything like that. With those you must do the bait strategy - i.e. showing the goods but not giving them until you get what you want.

Quote:-Nice date, she asked me for taxicab fare, which threw me off, but the kiss I get was so weak. Should have let her walk home.

Asking for taxicab fare is norm if you invited her to your home and it is late. Otherwise I wouldn't give her any.

Here's what seem to happen here: you're keeping putting value (effort, money) into them without receiving anything back, creating a kind of "value credit". In the West the girl would start either giving you some value back (because she doesn't want to "owe value" - like offering to pay for the next round), or she would stop getting the value from you (like refusing your drinks). In the East it doesn't happen - it will put her into the "hold off" mode to see how much more value you are going to give her.

There are three ways to break this circle.

First is to make a pause and settle on terms before you continue; this is hard unless you speak the same language and it goes well.

Second is to move on - i.e. you want more drinks, you go to my place; you want to go with me to that movie, you'll stay at my place and we go there in the morning. It is different from the first because you're not giving her the value until you get something back, while in first you continue based on trust.

And third is to devalue what you're giving to her - for example if you got the table in a club and have five bottles of Grey Goose there, a drink she'd get would have very little value, while the fact she's sitting on such table creates the value.

Quote:I'm learning that most girls have a fuckbuddy, so it's why they're able to move slow and not display any sign of horniness.

And so do most guys. As I said long time ago, pretty much everyone gets laid through their social circle. This is why there is no need for hookups. Add to this the risk averse nature and complete lack of "cock collectors" and this is what it ends up with.

Quote:It seems like their entire game is "don't show any interest." I can spend an hour with a girl here and have no idea where I stand.

You cannot rely on the feedback to see where you stand. What you need to do is to constantly escalate without looking for any IOI or encouragement. As long as you're escalating and she's not stopping you you're doing fine - and since you're escalating you always know where you are.

And don't hurry for kiss, work around it. I fucked several girls who never kissed me even after we fucked. They had a boyfriend in the army or in jail, and they believed that french kissing is real cheating, while fucking is just satisfying your basic body needs. After that I actually started pushing such beliefs on the girls who I'd expect to give me resistance, and got mixed but mostly positive results.

Post: #224

(03-31-2012 02:31 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(03-31-2012 03:52 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  I'm in Lemberg at the moment, have a friend coming in about two weeks also should be a nice party

Unless they fixed all the parks in Lviv during the last year I really doubt it. Even the Kostyushko Park had some pretty crappy pavement, and it is one of the bests.

You're wrong.

Stryski park and Ivano Frankov park are both beautiful with perfect pavement ideal for running and have been for some time. There is also a nice bike trail that goes for a few miles from Vysokyi Zamok.

Post: #225

(03-31-2012 01:06 PM)Soma Wrote:  Reading this thread has given a lot of insight into slavic culture and women, especially oldnemesis' and Greek kamaki's posts, however I'm still left with two lingering, fundamental questions:

1. What is the optimal strategy for getting in the pants of an attractive Russian/Ukrainian girl? (Clearly standard Western bar/club game isn't it.)

Through her social circle. This, however, is high investment strategy and makes little sense for quick bangs.

I would say there is no reliable strategy for getting in the pants of an abstract attractive American/whatever girl. There are strategies specific for the environment, and they work because the environments in the US attract that specific type of girls. My guess so far is that game only works on the E??P Myers-Briggs types, ENFP being the most susceptible. I'd really like to see a single example of someone successfully gaming the ISTJ type.

Quote:2. Is the effort worth it? (Personal opinion, no wrong answers.)

It depends on the person. For example for me maintaining the Western type "small talk" takes a lot of effort because it is a full-time brain work. So getting laid the typical "game" way here in US is not worth the effort to me. But this is clearly not the case with the majority of local population who can maintain small talk for hours non-stop.

Same in Ukraine, if you expect instant gratification and have trouble maintaining the very deep conversation (or lack necessary knowledge) you'll likely find the effort not worth it - because you'd spend significantly more effort than someone for whom it is familiar.