Post: #1

I’ve noticed a pretty negative sentiment lately on few threads about the amount of effort men need to put in to game women. Additionally, this is compounded by the shift that a lot of men are meeting women online (based on the last 5 lays thread). With this in mind, I was curious to see how much effort other guys are willing to put in for the bang, or to get a solid FWB / potential LTR/Mini relationship.

It seems to me that I probably put in a lot more effort than some of the guys on these forums are willing to put in. Whether that means sometimes flying out to meet up with a 9, driving 30 mins for the lay when I’m craving it, or putting in the effort to sit through a conversation. I’ve been reading how guys aren’t willing to talk to girls who don’t put effort into conversations.

One of my biggest lessons learned was learning to basically talk to a wall. Based on my results – you’re only dominating until their shyness wears off. After that, the women open up too. So I wanted to get a better gauge of why guys stopped putting in the effort, or what their limits are.

Regarding Effort
Initial Conversational effort: I think this is probably the biggest area where most guys lack. I think we all know by now that most girls hate a simple hey or hi (especially online) because it puts the onus on them to carry the conversation. Personally speaking, I use conversation steering to talk about my main 3 topics with every girl. Now granted, most of my questions are always the same – and my responses are usually copied and pasted. However, my responses come in by paragraphs – and *sometimes* girls start writing paragraphs back to me. I’m not going to lie, a lot of the times I’ll paste my paragraph and they have one or two-word answers. However, I just keep going through all 3 of my topics. I sincerely feel that this puts me apart from every other guy from the get-go. However, I wanted to learn how others do it, and if they really just have conversations of a couple words each back and forth the entire time.

Planning dates effort: I’m pretty sure most of the guys here take the effort to plan the dates. I definitely do, so that I can pick the places closest to me that offer the best logistics. I think where a lot of people might fall short, is selling the place you’re suggesting and making it sound great. I usually meet at a bar, but I tell them we can grab drinks and then watch the sunset. I emphasize the experience rather than it just being a bar.

Actual date effort: I read in some recent threads about guys becoming discouraged to put in the effort on dates since girls usually don’t try here either. I’m not sure about you guys, but now I just kind of expect this. However, I go armed with pictures and videos to re-talk about my 3 topics mentioned earlier. I’ll show them pictures and videos of cool things I’ve done, etc. while we have drinks or walk. I guess I wanted to paint a picture of what I do on a date that works and displays effort. Other guys not being on par, just makes the girls not want them and rather flock to the guys who do put in the effort or paint the illusion that they do.

Maintaining effort: I usually turn to Social media (IG/ Snap) for maintaining. I try to send out snaps at least once or twice every few days. If I haven't heard back, I also send restart texts, so that the connection doesn’t die out. I was curious as to what others do because I love the idea of only texting for logistics – but I feel as if that is not enough now.

In terms of hotness
For a 6 (bang but not date): I usually just go through my conversational topics, and ask if they want to come have a drink at my place. If they say no, I’ll set up a date 2 for a walk around the park, or straight to mine.

For a 7 (would date): I’ll have a much longer conversation for an hour or two + and then invite. If not, I’m willing to meet up for more dates if its close to me or something that doesn’t involve me paying more than $20-30 for her.

For a 8 (really attractive): Same as above, but I’d be willing to drive to her if theres no other option. I’d probably fly as well if it’s another city, and theres mutual friends (reduces flaking, esp. when flying).

For a 9 (model type): Recently a girl made a joke that I can pick her up at the airport when she lands if I wanted to hangout, and I did. Probably wouldn’t do that for any girls under a 9, especially since it was the first time meeting. Most people would probably knock on keeping frame here, but that extra effort was well rewarded.


I’m curious about the effort other men are putting in and if the efforts are rewarded or not. What are your limits?

Post: #2

If you put in a lot of indirect effort by maxing out your looks and building a good lifestyle, I think less effort should go into the interaction itself. From my experience, it is easy for a guy to not put in much effort if he has options. When I had my best years in the game, I was not putting in a lot of effort to meet women and get laid, it just naturally came to me.

The irony is when I did put in the effort by working on fundamentals and trying to learn things about the game, that is also when I struggled the most. I genuinely feel like if she is not interested in the first few seconds, it is a waste of time.

My opinion is that men would be better served putting in the effort to build an awesome life, look their best and have a lot going for them socially to where less effort is required to get laid.

Post: #3

(09-22-2018 12:55 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  I genuinely feel like if she is not interested in the first few seconds, it is a waste of time.

My opinion is that men would be better served putting in the effort to build an awesome life, look their best and have a lot going for them socially to where less effort is required to get laid.

/thread

Post: #4

(09-22-2018 12:55 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  If you put in a lot of indirect effort by maxing out your looks and building a good lifestyle, I think less effort should go into the interaction itself. From my experience, it is easy for a guy to not put in much effort if he has options. When I had my best years in the game, I was not putting in a lot of effort to meet women and get laid, it just naturally came to me.

The irony is when I did put in the effort by working on fundamentals and trying to learn things about the game, that is also when I struggled the most. I genuinely feel like if she is not interested in the first few seconds, it is a waste of time.

My opinion is that men would be better served putting in the effort to build an awesome life, look their best and have a lot going for them socially to where less effort is required to get laid.

So now that you've built all that up, why are your best years behind you?

I mean, I've got all of that built up too. Just because I workout doesn't mean I have a 6pack. Also, Im 5'8 and Im pretty sure a lot of people can't max that out. I understand building lifestyle is much more important, but you'll still need to put in effort into your interactions as well.

Post: #5

I agree that working on your appearance is big. Previously I just wore clothes and although being fit looked better than most people who do nothing, I just looked like a guy who exercised. Having a style and a number of good clothes is a boost.

But for me it was a far bigger boost to get muscular. I'd tried to get muscular a few times, but never really had results. Last year I found something that worked for me really well. Having more arms, a wider neck and broader shoulders is in my opinion worth more than a plus one facially. My cousin is seriously ripped (roids) and about 6'2", but he isn't that attractive and whenever I am with him women's eyes are all over him. From behind, from the side, from the front; women carnally eyeball him.

I find that with IOIs, you are much more likely to get them when you are socially validated. In the past when I was out with a friend he would tell me some woman was checking me out, but I rarely see women checking me out in my home country as my look didn't really take them out of their comfort zone so they are uncontrollably turn their head. The same guy knows a lot of people in town and when he'd speak to a girl they'd often look at me with a bit of interest. When I was ripped (currently injured) these were bumped up to uncontrollable head turns. I find that so few guys are in good shape that with the right routine it's not hard to get into the 1% for your body. That stand out.

So my general bent is to put my effort into making myself better. I'm not prepared to give up my time for something that is not warmed up. And certainly being visibly muscular in clothes is a way to get them more eager. If the dynamic is your faces are both lighting up because you like how you both look it's much more easy to get things going.

I agree with the above. If you can't generate a spark instantly then it doesn't seem likely that you ever will. With all the girls I've met, all bar one of them have had an instant spark. The one that wasn't was very marriage minded.

Then there are different countries. In my home country I think it's particularly dire. Women are jaded from thinking they are models because they get 2-5 new Instagram wankers per day and their tinder is blowing up. But they find it hard to make connections with anyone as most of the guys they are most interested in just want to bang.

Here it's very difficult to get interest unless you are socially validated. Girls are tepid and have low attention spans. I don't think there is much you can do with that unless you have great social skills.

I've just returned back from EE for 5-6 months; and there, particularly in Russia there is far more interest from just walking down the street. If a girl knows I am foreign her eyes are liable to light up. I joined a gym and three weeks later the girl who signed me up stopped me, her eyes bright and her tail bushy and asked me how I was doing? Back home that wouldn't happen even if she was an obese troll. This I can work with. I can't work with the lack of interest and skewed SMV here.

So with anything I've learned that you need to try and kindle an instant spark and if that doesn't happen it's probably best to dump it and continue firebombing prospects.

For online one thing I have found that works well is if a girl's profile is blank or sparse, drop something like this,

"You'rе vеry mystеrious with your blank profilе. Lеt's play a gamе - dеscribе yoursеlf in thrее words. You go first."

It's quite fun and suggests you are interested to know about them. Although blank profiles may be less serious, they probably get worse messages than average as guys have nothing to work with.

I think taking things in a playful direction is good as it relaxes them and makes things flow easier. You want to get them in the situation when they feel comfortable with you, like a dog lying on it's back with it's legs up in the air. Women love to be vulnerable but feel safe.

Being back home for a few months I'd like to find something to tide me over until I can again escape from this ((country)). But with how terrible it is here, I'm going to be more focused on lining up a few more foreign prospects than I already have. If I can't find anything that will put in any effort themselves then it will be back to monk mode.

Experience in Britain: Little interest even from fatties, social media addled, entitled, quickly loose interest, think their degree or average job mean something; I turn up, I be myself, it's not enough. Struggle below my SMV and more interest from post-wall career women.

Experience in the developing world: I turn up, I be myself, their eyes light up, they smile, they're soft, they compliment. After a little while I am liable to be their king, their prince or their man. Would barely consider a girl more than 10 years younger, and no consideration for less than 5 years younger.

In summary:

Work on yourself, not them
Firebomb opportunities
Work on building instant connections (it's not going to be possible with all)

Post: #6

Putting in more effort than the girl besides the opener and initial attraction phase is a novice move.

Post: #7

(09-22-2018 03:52 PM)gework Wrote:  I agree that working on your appearance is big. Previously I just wore clothes and although being fit looked better than most people who do nothing, I just looked like a guy who exercised. Having a style and a number of good clothes is a boost.

But for me it was a far bigger boost to get muscular. I'd tried to get muscular a few times, but never really had results. Last year I found something that worked for me really well. Having more arms, a wider neck and broader shoulders is in my opinion worth more than a plus one facially. My cousin is seriously ripped (roids) and about 6'2", but he isn't that attractive and whenever I am with him women's eyes are all over him. From behind, from the side, from the front; women carnally eyeball him.

I find that with IOIs, you are much more likely to get them when you are socially validated. In the past when I was out with a friend he would tell me some woman was checking me out, but I rarely see women checking me out in my home country as my look didn't really take them out of their comfort zone so they are uncontrollably turn their head. The same guy knows a lot of people in town and when he'd speak to a girl they'd often look at me with a bit of interest. When I was ripped (currently injured) these were bumped up to uncontrollable head turns. I find that so few guys are in good shape that with the right routine it's not hard to get into the 1% for your body. That stand out.

So my general bent is to put my effort into making myself better. I'm not prepared to give up my time for something that is not warmed up. And certainly being visibly muscular in clothes is a way to get them more eager. If the dynamic is your faces are both lighting up because you like how you both look it's much more easy to get things going.

I agree with the above. If you can't generate a spark instantly then it doesn't seem likely that you ever will. With all the girls I've met, all bar one of them have had an instant spark. The one that wasn't was very marriage minded.

Then there are different countries. In my home country I think it's particularly dire. Women are jaded from thinking they are models because they get 2-5 new Instagram wankers per day and their tinder is blowing up. But they find it hard to make connections with anyone as most of the guys they are most interested in just want to bang.

Here it's very difficult to get interest unless you are socially validated. Girls are tepid and have low attention spans. I don't think there is much you can do with that unless you have great social skills.

I've just returned back from EE for 5-6 months; and there, particularly in Russia there is far more interest from just walking down the street. If a girl knows I am foreign her eyes are liable to light up. I joined a gym and three weeks later the girl who signed me up stopped me, her eyes bright and her tail bushy and asked me how I was doing? Back home that wouldn't happen even if she was an obese troll. This I can work with. I can't work with the lack of interest and skewed SMV here.

So with anything I've learned that you need to try and kindle an instant spark and if that doesn't happen it's probably best to dump it and continue firebombing prospects.

For online one thing I have found that works well is if a girl's profile is blank or sparse, drop something like this,

"You'rе vеry mystеrious with your blank profilе. Lеt's play a gamе - dеscribе yoursеlf in thrее words. You go first."

It's quite fun and suggests you are interested to know about them. Although blank profiles may be less serious, they probably get worse messages than average as guys have nothing to work with.

I think taking things in a playful direction is good as it relaxes them and makes things flow easier. You want to get them in the situation when they feel comfortable with you, like a dog lying on it's back with it's legs up in the air. Women love to be vulnerable but feel safe.

Being back home for a few months I'd like to find something to tide me over until I can again escape from this ((country)). But with how terrible it is here, I'm going to be more focused on lining up a few more foreign prospects than I already have. If I can't find anything that will put in any effort themselves then it will be back to monk mode.

Experience in Britain: Little interest even from fatties, social media addled, entitled, quickly loose interest, think their degree or average job mean something; I turn up, I be myself, it's not enough. Struggle below my SMV and more interest from post-wall career women.

Experience in the developing world: I turn up, I be myself, their eyes light up, they smile, they're soft, they compliment. After a little while I am liable to be their king, their prince or their man. Would barely consider a girl more than 10 years younger, and no consideration for less than 5 years younger.

In summary:

Work on yourself, not them
Firebomb opportunities
Work on building instant connections (it's not going to be possible with all)

I've got a few questions

1. Do you only pursue girls that indicate interest in you first?
2. Do you date up or down? Maybe I'm speaking from experience of going after girls that are much better in terms of looks, so it's not like they're checking me out. I have to win them with my game and effort.
3. You'd rather go into monk mode than to put in effort into pursuing girls? Really?

Post: #8

(09-22-2018 04:49 PM)sethg Wrote:  Putting in more effort than the girl besides the opener and initial attraction phase is a novice move.

You mean after you have sex with her? Then sure - she goes into plate maintain status. But before you bang her? In my opinion, you've gotta be leaving a ton of girls on the table with that method.

Post: #9

I'm putting in a decreasing amount of effort to get most girls.

Outside of my ongoing online game experiment, I am putting virtually no effort in to bangs. I have gotten cranky in my old age (30s). I was never a notch counter and had no illusions of or desire to bang 1000 women. In my teens and twenties, I would make concerted an repeated efforts to go after any girl I found attractive. I didn't repeat on the same girl. But, I would just get the brush off, and I would turn around and go after a different girl. I don't have the patience or desire to do that any more. At this point, an 8+ would literally have to serve herself up to me on a plate to get my attention for a bang. And I'm not bragging here. I'm not saying that happens. I am just describing my mindset.

A lot of that has to do with my transition in to a more stable LTR phase. I have not completely given up hope of getting married and having children. On that front, it would seem (to an outside observer) that I am also making little effort. In truth, I am making a monumental effort. It is just that I encounter very few women I consider wife material. When I do encounter one, I put in the effort. But, I have found that with all the women I consider better stock, I don't have to put in much effort. I don't get the epic shit tests and emotional roller coasters that I get with most women. That is, in part, why I consider these women wife material.

To answer some other questions that OP and others asked (not neceassiry to me)...

I put in the most effort at the very beginning - in the approach. This has always been my strategy, as once I have built a base level of rapport with a woman, it was either on to the bang or in to relationship mode. I have always avoided putting in an incredible amount of effort once I have a girl. I don't actively run dread game. But, I have always found that going out of my way or changing my behavior based on what a girl does/says is counter-productive to my goals (whatever they might be).

I don't recall (outside of when I was something like 12 years old) ever pursuing a girl who rejected me or lost interest. If they want out, they can go.

I know it was directed at gework, but a basic idea of what my game and market looks like might be useful. I only go after girls who have given me some indicator. This can be anything from a certain eye contact to a mutual friend telling me she likes me. I have almost always dated up in physical attractiveness. I think most men at least try to do this. And I have, admittedly, ridiculously high standards. This has become an issue recently as I have found that the best quality for relationships comes from girls hovering around 6s (you may have heard my question on the most recent Roosh Hour). I recently began to engage in online game. Prior to that, it was all in real life. I preferenced day game and social circle, as I think it gives me a better quality of girl. Hilariously, I am fairly good at night game because I don't like doing it. I always disliked the drunk club slut type, so I ran a lot of (no I really am being an) asshole game on women. The opening scene of the movie American Psycho pretty much sums up my club game. The sad thing is, it was very effective. But I don't consider that effort, as I wasn't being incongruent to my own personality. Pretty much anything that resulted in a relationship (of whatever length) came from social circle.

Post: #10

I get the impression you do a lot of online stuff?

Quote:learning to basically talk to a wall

Why are you talking to walls? Talking with a girl is supposed to be enjoyable and fun. If it is this much of a struggle to have at least an enjoyabale time something is wrong, either with you or with the girl. Assume it is you. Are you fun to talk and hang with? How enjoyable is it for a girl to drink a cup of coffee with you?

Quote:I think we all know by now that most girls hate a simple hey or hi (especially online)

You must be doing way too much online stuff. In the real world saying 'hi' is pretty much the beginning of every interaction with pretty much every human being.

Quote:I wanted to learn how others do it.

Don't do this online stuff. Go outside. Leave phone at home. Go say 'hi' to a girl.

Quote:I’m pretty sure most of the guys here take the effort to plan the dates.

Nope. At best I look for a place with a couch or a bench because I like to sit comfortable.

Quote:I think where a lot of people might fall short, is selling the place you’re suggesting and making it sound great.

Why try to sell her onto some place? You invested in the place or something?

Quote:I was curious as to what others do because I love the idea of only texting for logistics.

I despise social media and all that stuff. I value face to face contact. I make all my appointments face to face or on the phone (calling, using mouth). I do have e-mail. Texting, however, is for emergencies or quick logistics only.

Quote:I’m curious about the effort other men are putting in and if the efforts are rewarded or not. What are your limits?

I put effort in myself first and foremost. When talking with a girl I try to be actually interested in her. Her life, her interests, her hobbies, her favorite food and things she might enjoy.

To answer some other question you ask down the line, while I am at it.

Quote:Do you only pursue girls that indicate interest in you first?

Yes, mostly. I look for nice and friendly girls. Girls who give me a smile.

Quote:Do you date up or down?

Only attractive girls. Attractive, nice and friendly.

Quote:You'd rather go into monk mode than to put in effort into pursuing girls? Really?

Monk Mode is a good way to work on your inner self. Your inner game. To actually make yourself a better person. After improving and bettering oneself interactions with girls go a whole lot smoother and are more pleasant. Most of it is your state of mind, your way of thinking, however.

Post: #11

No more than 3-4 hours a week dedicated to meeting women, (Doesn't include time I spend with a woman while/after banging her), and that's being generous.

At the moment I'm in monk mode and happy, working on my sobriety, eating habits and my writing.

Post: #12

(09-22-2018 04:49 PM)sethg Wrote:  Putting in more effort than the girl besides the opener and initial attraction phase is a novice move.

Summed up. Im not going out of my way to convince a strange bitch of my greatness. It should be fucking palpable as soon as I approach.

Post: #13

At 33 I have very little patience anymore. Most women are not worth your time. Luckily our game gets more efficient as we age.

Post: #14

I’ve been contemplating this myself lately. I’m an input/output guy. If I like her and she puts in effort, I’ll match it. However, oftentimes, the ones I don’t really like are the ones trying, whereas the ones I do like aren’t. Regardless, I just cannot bring myself to “sweat” a woman. Either she recognizes my worth or she doesn’t. I know many women still subscribe to the fallacy that a man should pursue and put in extraordinary effort, but guys like me aren’t growing on trees and I refuse to be that simp that pursues relentlessly. Especially when I know, from experience, the juice is rarely ever worth the squeeze.

No I won’t put in unreciprocated effort.
No I won’t drive, let alone fly, anywhere for pussy.
No I won’t chase bishes
No I won’t try to out perform the next simp or the one who came before.


I’m happy just being me. Being in my own company or with friends and family is oftentimes infinitely better than entertaining some boring ass broad with a cute face and a phat ass.

Post: #15

I size women up before I put in any actual effort. There’s two criteria really:

1. Is she girlfriend material?

2. How much time/money will it cost me to get her naked.

If question 1 is no and 2 is more than the cost of one date ....I won’t even bother trying.

Post: #16

(09-22-2018 11:28 PM)Tiger Man Wrote:  I have almost always dated up in physical attractiveness. I think most men at least try to do this. And I have, admittedly, ridiculously high standards. This has become an issue recently as I have found that the best quality for relationships comes from girls hovering around 6s (you may have heard my question on the most recent Roosh Hour). I recently began to engage in online game. Prior to that, it was all in real life. I preferenced day game and social circle, as I think it gives me a better quality of girl. ... Pretty much anything that resulted in a relationship (of whatever length) came from social circle.

As I've also found, it becomes increasingly clear that as you go along, you'll want to find quality once you go through the phase BS of "getting bangs" (however long that phase is). The physical upside/max of this as you state, is the 7, and most are 6-7 --- Ok to fine looking, but just good personality, normal, not focused on material and not constantly desiring attention from you more than she gives you. I think if you can trade a little lower "hotness" [your "high standards"] for youth, you've just hacked the system.

This reality makes me understand why arranged marriages of old worked so well. It was generally understood what the relative SMV was of any family's progeny, so matching was reasonable considering male and female desires. Grass would always be greener for females, but as is usual, that was understood --- marrying for "love" would end up in far too high of a percentage of old maids, modern day cat women.

Post: #17

You put up the max effort initially upfront to maximze your bang funnel. After that it very quickly decreases unless she's matching you in effort/passion/chemistry.

I wouldn't say 9s take longer than 7s but they usually require more effort. However, the rewards can be enormous.

I do think it's funny, particularly on this forum, that some guys aren't willing to invest an hour of time and conversational gambits and stories plus cost of 2 drinks to try to get a hot girl into bed. To each their own.

I'll drive 30 mins for an 8+, as long as she can carry a good conversation or is a great cook. I wouldn't fly anywhere for anybody. I'll uber them over if need be.

Post: #18

6.5 and below - invite directly over to my place, texting for logistics and sexual escalation only

7 - will go out for a drink at an external location, probably would also just invite over if I'm busy, would invest 20 minutes in a phone call if she's under 20 years old

7.5 and above - would meet out for drinks and pay for them, would pay for Uber if she wanted to come right over

Post: #19

Sometimes less is more, putting in too much effort often backfires, and you’ll end up hating chasing women.

Get in the zone, try to close, but if there is no way in, stop trying. Only go after women when you’re enjoying it, and quit immediately the moment you start hating it, or start feeling exhausted—don’t power through.

As long as you love the game it’ll come effortlessly, and you’ll continue to get laid.

Post: #20

Low effort for me.

I just go on tinder and get matches and make chit chat with women.

If I talk to someone who I find interesting I will ask them out for a beer

Usually it goes well and we fuck with a few dates.

Low effort and I enjoy the process.

I'm now in the relationship and met my gf by doing this.

Post: #21

(09-23-2018 09:26 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  I size women up before I put in any actual effort. There’s two criteria really:

1. Is she girlfriend material?

2. How much time/money will it cost me to get her naked.

If question 1 is no and 2 is more than the cost of one date ....I won’t even bother trying.

I use the same formula, but also how good I think she is. This will vary in girls who are 7.5 or above, probably I will put more effort the hotter she is. One thing I will say is important to mention is the fact that if you put too much effort, they will know and will give them the impression they have power over you. It is a little tricky, but the key is to manage well the time you spend on it. I will say the harder to pinpoint how much effort you will put in a girl is if she is way over average.

Post: #22

Absolute minimal. I use tinder and bumble on the shitter and I don't have enough time. Got 7 girls currently blowing up my phone and only have time for 3. I have been fortunate that women seem to have been very direct recently (past month) and I have really toned down my game.

My past two weekends/outings:

(09-17-2018 04:27 AM)Noir Wrote:  Had some free time last week so did some NLP hypnosis. The type where you go in and out of consciousness for 60 minutes.

Placebo or not, the confidence is real. Won a standup competition on Saturday. Went out to celebrate with another mate before being joined by a few others.

Venue 1

Sit next to a group of models outside, minding my own business. Some rapper comes and we become friends over a smoke.

I turn to this Afrikaans 8 who is obviously staring at me. Open her and start immediately flirting. She's cute but I am ready to go to the next venue and exchange numbers.


Venue 2

Hit the dancefloor.
Girl on an elevated platform puts her arms around me and leans in for the kiss.
Another girl comes grinding on me. Both are 7s but nothing spectacular. See another girl I know with her boyfriend who is ecstatic to see me. Keep the pleasantries at minimum.

Third girl approaches me now, this time from behind and smacks my arse and comes in to dance. My mate takes on her friend. Go outside for a smoke. Come back and go to the VIP and ask these girls if they mind us chilling there for 5 minutes.
No problem.

It's still early (12) so let's hit the next place.


Venue 3

Queuing to get in. Amsterdam girl is flirting with bouncer. Tell her to back off, he's mine. She turns to me and shit tests me (don't remember) but I smashed it and she grabs my face and tells me "you're so cute, let's meet inside".

Go in, start flirting with this German girl. She is there with her boyfriend, tells me I am really hot and would go home with me if she was single. I tell her to slow down and find me a girl instead. She finds me some random girl on the dancefloor and literally brings her to me. I am not interested though. Music is kicking off.

Dance with some black girl. "You're so cute but I think you're too young for me". She's 28. I tell her she is right. It works. Make out a bit.

I go to the front, by the DJ and speakers. Indian girl, who has made out with 3 guys already, comes and grabs my dick. Literally. Tries to pull in to me. I dodge and choke her against the wall and tell her that she doesn't know what she's getting herself in to. I am not interested, fucking slut. I grab her pussy as I do this and let her know that she can't spend 5 minutes in my world.

This was the wrong thing to do because she ended up following me the whole night and somewhat cockblocking me.

I left, with no girl and honestly, I didn't care. It was amusing to see women throw themselves all over. If anything it's unbecoming. Shoulda pulled the first absolute stunner from venue 1 but it was still early.

Placebo or not, this NLP shit always makes women literally open me, come up to me or at least perimeter.

Multiple "you're cute/hot", 1 ass grab and 1 dick grab. No cold approaches, nothing, just having some drinks with my boys.

The day response is even better albeit not as direct.

(09-26-2018 05:34 AM)Noir Wrote:  Piggy backing off my previous post of minimal effort and maximum gains due to NLP.

Last Wednesday, go to my local coffee shop. The manager comes and greets me. I notice a new girl, 8, working there.

Manager brings her over and says "YOU and YOU need to go on a date, ASAP". I write my number on a napkin, hand it over. She messages me after that.

I have seen her 3 times in the past week, shes 22, gorgeous, culturally compatible and ticks most boxes.

Minimal effort.

Saturday, I went to a festival, chatted up another stunner (8). She was outside, looking cold. Point at her "you look cold, put something on before you get sick" and went to find some friends.

I saw her dancing inside and told her "you look like you've warmed up, I am x". Her friend interrupts with "you have 10 minutes to kiss her before we leave".

I pull into her and kiss her. Take her to the bar, buy them some drinks (I really don't care) and continue to make out. Friend starts taking photos and swooning over me. This girl is a biokineticist and this works well as I have an injury I am recovering from so it's a win/win. Also, the best kisser from the past 5 years and I have kissed plenty of women during this time.

Again, minimal effort. I mentioned the NLP earlier in this thread but it's some sort of confidence being oozed doing its magic.

Would love to post pics of these girls but this forum is way too big these days. Not a lot of actionable advice apart from the usual breaking rapport. In clubs or social environments, I like to open with some flirty chirp and then revisit later on as there is no awkwardness and they are comfortable around me.

Post: #23

Some of you guys are very averse to driving for a bang... do you have teleporters or something I don't know about?

30 minutes is just across town where I'm from. Standard commute and I enjoy driving.

Can you guys (who don't/won't drive) elaborate on your anti driving stance?

Post: #24

(09-25-2018 09:05 PM)corsega Wrote:  6.5 and below - invite directly over to my place, texting for logistics and sexual escalation only

7 - will go out for a drink at an external location, probably would also just invite over if I'm busy, would invest 20 minutes in a phone call if she's under 20 years old

7.5 and above - would meet out for drinks and pay for them, would pay for Uber if she wanted to come right over

That's pretty much my formula as well

Post: #25

(09-22-2018 11:28 PM)Tiger Man Wrote:  I'm putting in a decreasing amount of effort to get most girls.

Outside of my ongoing online game experiment, I am putting virtually no effort in to bangs. I have gotten cranky in my old age (30s). I was never a notch counter and had no illusions of or desire to bang 1000 women. In my teens and twenties, I would make concerted an repeated efforts to go after any girl I found attractive. I didn't repeat on the same girl. But, I would just get the brush off, and I would turn around and go after a different girl. I don't have the patience or desire to do that any more. At this point, an 8+ would literally have to serve herself up to me on a plate to get my attention for a bang. And I'm not bragging here. I'm not saying that happens. I am just describing my mindset.

A lot of that has to do with my transition in to a more stable LTR phase. I have not completely given up hope of getting married and having children. On that front, it would seem (to an outside observer) that I am also making little effort. In truth, I am making a monumental effort. It is just that I encounter very few women I consider wife material. When I do encounter one, I put in the effort. But, I have found that with all the women I consider better stock, I don't have to put in much effort. I don't get the epic shit tests and emotional roller coasters that I get with most women. That is, in part, why I consider these women wife material.

To answer some other questions that OP and others asked (not neceassiry to me)...

I put in the most effort at the very beginning - in the approach. This has always been my strategy, as once I have built a base level of rapport with a woman, it was either on to the bang or in to relationship mode. I have always avoided putting in an incredible amount of effort once I have a girl. I don't actively run dread game. But, I have always found that going out of my way or changing my behavior based on what a girl does/says is counter-productive to my goals (whatever they might be).

I don't recall (outside of when I was something like 12 years old) ever pursuing a girl who rejected me or lost interest. If they want out, they can go.

I know it was directed at gework, but a basic idea of what my game and market looks like might be useful. I only go after girls who have given me some indicator. This can be anything from a certain eye contact to a mutual friend telling me she likes me. I have almost always dated up in physical attractiveness. I think most men at least try to do this. And I have, admittedly, ridiculously high standards. This has become an issue recently as I have found that the best quality for relationships comes from girls hovering around 6s (you may have heard my question on the most recent Roosh Hour). I recently began to engage in online game. Prior to that, it was all in real life. I preferenced day game and social circle, as I think it gives me a better quality of girl. Hilariously, I am fairly good at night game because I don't like doing it. I always disliked the drunk club slut type, so I ran a lot of (no I really am being an) asshole game on women. The opening scene of the movie American Psycho pretty much sums up my club game. The sad thing is, it was very effective. But I don't consider that effort, as I wasn't being incongruent to my own personality. Pretty much anything that resulted in a relationship (of whatever length) came from social circle.

Thanks for the clear and concise answer! It seems like we are on the same page in terms of putting in the effort early, and going into maintenance mode. Additionally, it seems like your effort is decreased with an LTR since you have a fallback, which makes sense.

But, it also seems like you're saying 6's make for better relationships (which they do) and that those girls require less effort. I get where you're coming from...but I just wouldn't personally want a 6. I wish I did, but I dont -\. I think im stuck having to put in the extra effort trying to get the higher up girls

(09-23-2018 04:30 AM)BadBoyGamer Wrote:  I get the impression you do a lot of online stuff?

Quote:learning to basically talk to a wall

Why are you talking to walls? Talking with a girl is supposed to be enjoyable and fun. If it is this much of a struggle to have at least an enjoyabale time something is wrong, either with you or with the girl. Assume it is you. Are you fun to talk and hang with? How enjoyable is it for a girl to drink a cup of coffee with you?

Quote:I think we all know by now that most girls hate a simple hey or hi (especially online)

You must be doing way too much online stuff. In the real world saying 'hi' is pretty much the beginning of every interaction with pretty much every human being.

Quote:I wanted to learn how others do it.

Don't do this online stuff. Go outside. Leave phone at home. Go say 'hi' to a girl.

I do, I'm just not getting the results I want. Occasionally, I get a lay from it - but they are far harder to come by.

Quote:I’m pretty sure most of the guys here take the effort to plan the dates.

Nope. At best I look for a place with a couch or a bench because I like to sit comfortable.

So you say hi, talk to her, venue switch (sit on your bench or somewhere comfortable), and then take her home? All in the same day?

Quote:I think where a lot of people might fall short, is selling the place you’re suggesting and making it sound great.

Why try to sell her onto some place? You invested in the place or something?

Quote:I was curious as to what others do because I love the idea of only texting for logistics.

I despise social media and all that stuff. I value face to face contact. I make all my appointments face to face or on the phone (calling, using mouth). I do have e-mail. Texting, however, is for emergencies or quick logistics only.

It may be an age thing. But just meeting girls face to face now isn't the easiest task. How often do you get a new lay from it? What about 7+'s?

Quote:I’m curious about the effort other men are putting in and if the efforts are rewarded or not. What are your limits?

I put effort in myself first and foremost. When talking with a girl I try to be actually interested in her. Her life, her interests, her hobbies, her favorite food and things she might enjoy.

To answer some other question you ask down the line, while I am at it.

Quote:Do you only pursue girls that indicate interest in you first?

Yes, mostly. I look for nice and friendly girls. Girls who give me a smile.

Quote:Do you date up or down?

Only attractive girls. Attractive, nice and friendly.

Quote:You'd rather go into monk mode than to put in effort into pursuing girls? Really?

Monk Mode is a good way to work on your inner self. Your inner game. To actually make yourself a better person. After improving and bettering oneself interactions with girls go a whole lot smoother and are more pleasant. Most of it is your state of mind, your way of thinking, however.

1. Yes, I go out too. I just get much higher quality results with less effort online.
2. I don't mind talking to a hot girl that's boring, to be honest. I'm perfectly happy telling her my stories and banging her after. But yes, I'm probably not a super fun guy, but chemistry is different with everyone. I don't see anything wrong with putting in effort to seduce a woman, even if she's boring.
3. Yes I am.
4. Re: Online stuff and getting out: I do, I'm just not getting the results I want. Occasionally, I get a lay from it - but they are far harder to come by.
5. So you say hi, talk to her, venue switch (sit on your bench or somewhere comfortable), and then take her home? All in the same day?
6. Re social media: It may be an age thing. But just meeting girls face to face now isn't the easiest task. How often do you get a new lay from it? What about 7+'s?
7. Re effort: We’re on the same page

(09-23-2018 04:43 AM)Rorogue Wrote:  No more than 3-4 hours a week dedicated to meeting women, (Doesn't include time I spend with a woman while/after banging her), and that's being generous.

At the moment I'm in monk mode and happy, working on my sobriety, eating habits and my writing.

Good to hear. I guess I like to allocate more time.