Post: #4076

(05-26-2018 02:37 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  I did the first 3 reps beltless and other 2 x 5 with belt. Actually I didn't feel it helps me in regard lifting the weight easier, it's just that valsalva movement is much more pronounced when using it.

when you have time, give this guide a read: you might find interesting info in it that can be relevant for your level.

https://www.barbellmedicine.com/quickstart/

Post: #4077

I am more interested in answering the question as to why squats can't progress 2,5 kg more each time and other lifts do. I progress in everything except squats who now feel really hard and they even "broke" my form week ago. Still dealing with slight right hip joint pain.

I think the reason is that I am not a newbie and can't reap fully newbie gains. Regarding numbers in kg/lbs, I am definitely a newbie, no question there, but I started working out 6 years ago. Whole this time I have been doing it on/off at home, until recently, when I decided to go to gym.
6 years ago I had barely any muscle on body and I was really skinny guy with belly fat. When I started weightlifting at that time at home, I packed some minor muscle even though I didn't know anything what I am doing. I was really uninformed at the time and relied on a friend, who also didn't know much. Since then, even with eating in surplus and working at home I slowly progressed.

This here in the gym was a really nice refreshment, to see progress each time, but I feel it started to slow down and it won't be like in ideal Rippetoe example.

Post: #4078

(05-28-2018 01:12 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  I am more interested in answering the question as to why squats can't progress 2,5 kg more each time and other lifts do. I progress in everything except squats who now feel really hard and they even "broke" my form week ago. Still dealing with slight right hip joint pain.

How much do you weigh and how long are you resting between sets?

Also, regarding your DL post, the SS/SL (same thing, really) form is much easier to teach an uncoordinated guy than a low(er) hips, more quad dominant style of pull. Flexibility demands are much lower. My rather sedentary friend, stiff as a board, was able to get into the right positions with the SL/SS DL almost immediately. He's not able to get into a lower hip position.

Post: #4079

You need to read up on some basic training cycles, sterling_archer. Starting Strength is a rather silly program that requires you to gain a lot of weight to keep progressing. Works great if you're a skinny guy who's not lactose intolerant, otherwise, running into a wall like your case is a rather common occurance.

If you go by the simplest cycle which is 3 months or 12 weeks, plan your increases from week 1 to week 11, then give yourself a week of play, and start a new cycle with beginning weight a bit more than last time. Every 3 months you should do better than before, giving your body time to rest and recover properly.

Personally I like 5/3/1, it has a few different plans for newbies all the way to elite (not world class elite though) and you get to set PBs quite regularly, which is the most fun thing about lifting!

Post: #4080

(05-28-2018 01:12 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  I am more interested in answering the question as to why squats can't progress 2,5 kg more each time and other lifts do. I progress in everything except squats who now feel really hard and they even "broke" my form week ago. Still dealing with slight right hip joint pain.

there's only so much you can milk from spinning wheels over and over again.
if your squat form is perfect and the lift stalls then it just stalls and you need to move on to more complex programming.

for the lifts that are still progressing, keep going until they dont anymore.

Post: #4081

(05-28-2018 01:49 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  How much do you weigh and how long are you resting between sets?

I weigh 70 kg (154 lb) and am resting about up to 2 and a half minutes between work sets.

Post: #4082

(05-28-2018 02:47 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  You need to read up on some basic training cycles, sterling_archer. Starting Strength is a rather silly program that requires you to gain a lot of weight to keep progressing. Works great if you're a skinny guy who's not lactose intolerant, otherwise, running into a wall like your case is a rather common occurance.

If you go by the simplest cycle which is 3 months or 12 weeks, plan your increases from week 1 to week 11, then give yourself a week of play, and start a new cycle with beginning weight a bit more than last time. Every 3 months you should do better than before, giving your body time to rest and recover properly.

Personally I like 5/3/1, it has a few different plans for newbies all the way to elite (not world class elite though) and you get to set PBs quite regularly, which is the most fun thing about lifting!

I don't know about silliness of the program as I am newbie but I can agree that SS is too taxing on me. Even on good nutrition and enough sleep, I am almost constantly sore and tired. Today coach said that 3x per week squat is too much. I said that this is how the program was written, can't change it too much.

I would rather do something like P.H.U.L. which is basically what I want for my goals.
Originally I started SS so I could get foundation in technique, form and weight and progress to some hypertrophy based program, since mass (which I lack) is my primary goal. @RandomA suggested couple of pages ago PHUL/PHAT and while they initially seemed taxing I actually changed opinion when I researched more about them.

For example, on day 2 it says you do squat, deadlift and other leg exercises. But this is only for one day basically and not 3x per week! Much more achievable to increase weight once weekly instead of three times per week.
Also, that day 2 is strength day so you lift some heavy shit, but on day 3 and 4 you change reps and sets to go in hypertrophy range. Basically I like lifting heavy shit but would also like having volume that targets specifically lacking parts. PHUL seems to be like the best of both worlds.

https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/phul-workout

Post: #4083

Squatting 3 times a week is too much? Lol, what the hell?


I squat 125kg (stopped there intentionally) for reps every day I work out. I never got hurt (thank God), and I am not using any supplements. Not even creatine or pre workout (banana and home made honey 2 times a day will beat any pre workout, period).


Being sore and tired is normal at this stage - you are still a n00b (no offense). As you progress, you won't be as tired and sore as you now, since your body had adapted to this workout routine. In my case, I only feel sore and tired after a workout. The day after, I am rested, and ready to roll.


Don't over complicate things, stick to the basics. Millions gained serious gainz on SS, SL 5x5 and Reg Park's program (3x5 basically). Many famous body builders use those programs (Reg Park was Arnold's mentor). You can't get a better proof than that!

Post: #4084

I would love to continue SS, but am not sure what to do with my injury. I couldn't finish my squat work sets today because of it.

Post: #4085

What happened?

Post: #4086

Sorry, didn't realize I didn't talked about it. You can read on previous pages about how I corrected my form during squat (with or without belt) and how my posture was a bit wrong. Before that (a week or so) my form "broke" down a couple of times because of my errors and weight progressing each time. Basically I hurt right hip joint or somewhere around there. That healed gradually over time. Working in the woods on hilly terrain, driving bicycle, walking, and continuing to squat, which are all leg activities reactivated that pain again in the past week.

Post: #4087

Consult a specialist. I would like to help, but I do not want to be held responsible for any further injuries down the road.


All I can say is that you stay clear of squats (and even deadlifts), and focus on your upper body until the pain goes away. After that, watch your technique (90% of injuries happen due to poor technique).

Post: #4088

(05-28-2018 04:49 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 01:49 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  How much do you weigh and how long are you resting between sets?

I weigh 70 kg (154 lb) and am resting about up to 2 and a half minutes between work sets.

Rest 3-5 minutes.

Post: #4089

I decided to lower weight on squat by 10% and work the weight up to one I did on Friday. I think it will help with further progress and be easier on joints. I will be basically pushed backward in progress for 2 weeks and I don't think that is a big deal in the long run. After 2 weeks I will probably be at the same weight as recently and be stronger. That is how deload works isn't it?

Post: #4090

(05-28-2018 12:04 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  I decided to lower weight on squat by 10% and work the weight up to one I did on Friday. I think it will help with further progress and be easier on joints. I will be basically pushed backward in progress for 2 weeks and I don't think that is a big deal in the long run. After 2 weeks I will probably be at the same weight as recently and be stronger. That is how deload works isn't it?

Sort of. What you should do is lower the weight 10% and then add a set, so do 4x5. Alternatively, you can do 1x5, 1x5, then 1x5+ (until form breakdown). The added volume of the last set may be enough to get you over the plateau.

SS/SL do not know how to deal with stalls.

Post: #4091

As a newbie, you probably should only squat about twice a week, 1 heavy, 1 light. The light session is for form practice, and also an active recovery. You'd be surprised how a light movement actually helps you recover from the same one with heavier weights.

When you get stronger, say intermediate-advanced, you can do 3 times: heavy, light, medium. That's a classic American method too.

Newbies do not have the skills to train really hard. This goes for any sport, not just lifting. If they go too hard, they burn out, pick up bad habits (can't keep good form under pressure / high load) and get injured.

My other sport is boxing. Newbies don't work on the heavy bags 3 times a week, they don't go full contact sparring either, for the same reason as above.

It is not useful to say they should just toughen up and grind through everything. They need to earn the right to work that hard. I say this as someone who's squatted well over 2.5x BW and who's done 6-7 days a week daily max squatting for 7 months in a row.

Never try to lift too heavy at the expense of form. You need to move smoothly and fast throughout all of your sets. If you're not yet ready to add more weights, just add more sets. Weight is not the only thing you can improve on: sets, reps and speed all help you to get stronger and closer to your fitness or physique goals.

Post: #4092

@Truth Teller
So you are advocating for either another set or greyskull method. When do I revert back to original 3x5?

@StrikeBack
That makes sense but that is how SS is done, each day heavier day. I don't want to change too much really. I will try methods Truth Teller described to get over my stall.

Post: #4093

(05-25-2018 04:08 AM)randomA Wrote:  

(05-25-2018 01:41 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  ^what if someone peaks on SS's 5x5 linear progression after only 4 months. Would you call them an intermediate lifter because they have plateaued?

Absolutely.
Being a novice = making a use of noob gainz.
Noob gainz = the fastest period of time where you'll put the most absolute weight on the bar (e.g. 100kg in 3 months). That's why it's such a short period.

SS or SL5x5 or greyskull etc. are not designed , in fact, to last more than 12-16 weeks because thats when the "general population" will stop being a novice and become an intermediate = no more noob gainz.

Intermediate = vast majority of the population who lifts (provided they've gone through a stable novice linear progression: if one has never tried doing that, then they should do that and exhaust their noob gainz first; that might even last less than 12 weeks if they already have somewhat of a lifting/varsity sport background).

I don't agree with you because this standard of measurement only applies do individuals that train using a linear-progression strength program.

I also don't agree that just because someone who is using a linear-progression plateaus, that they are now an intermediate level lifter. This is because there are other "standards of experience" that may not be met regardless of someone's progress. For example, as I mentioned earlier, the Wilks score:



Above that, on the other end of the spectrum, someone with good genetics may be able to ride linear progression all the way to a 400 lbs. bench, 500 lbs. squat, and 600 lbs. deadlift. Would that person still be a novice lifter?

Like I said, there is more than one way to determine someone is "intermediate" or any experience-level of training.

Personal example: I have never trained a linear progression program so I have zero reference as to whether or not I would have plateaued with such a training style. So am I still a novice because I have never plateaued on a linear-progression style training program?

That said, I have been lifting for almost 2.5 years, bench 270, squat 355, and deadlift 425. My Wilks score is ~293 (intermediate).

Post: #4094

I did my first powerlifting mock meet last week and hit 510/275/515 for a 1300 total at 203 bodyweight. I'm thinking I might do my first competition later this summer if I can find a good time for one. I've always been happy just lifting for myself but everyone tells me I'd be doing myself a disservice if I didn't at least try competing once.

I wish my bench didn't suck so much. I'm starting to become somewhat of an anomaly when you compare my bench to my other lifts. I basically haven't made any progress in 1.5 years. High volume, low volume, high frequency, low frequency, lots of variations, less variations...I've tried it all but just can't get the damn thing up. One thing I haven't tried yet is to incorporate a bunch of bodybuilding-style assistance movements for all the little muscles, but I hate doing that shit. Probably just going to sack up and start doing them.

Post: #4095

Killer total and your squat and deadlift are advance-level numbers for sure. Awesome work man!

Post: #4096

(05-29-2018 11:59 AM)redonion Wrote:  I did my first powerlifting mock meet last week and hit 510/275/515 for a 1300 total at 203 bodyweight. I'm thinking I might do my first competition later this summer if I can find a good time for one. I've always been happy just lifting for myself but everyone tells me I'd be doing myself a disservice if I didn't at least try competing once.

I wish my bench didn't suck so much. I'm starting to become somewhat of an anomaly when you compare my bench to my other lifts. I basically haven't made any progress in 1.5 years. High volume, low volume, high frequency, low frequency, lots of variations, less variations...I've tried it all but just can't get the damn thing up. One thing I haven't tried yet is to incorporate a bunch of bodybuilding-style assistance movements for all the little muscles, but I hate doing that shit. Probably just going to sack up and start doing them.

Have you tried doing negatives with a higher weight, such as 315, with spotters to bring it up and then you just try to control the fall as best you can?

Post: #4097

(05-29-2018 01:20 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  @Truth Teller
So you are advocating for either another set or greyskull method. When do I revert back to original 3x5?

@StrikeBack
That makes sense but that is how SS is done, each day heavier day. I don't want to change too much really. I will try methods Truth Teller described to get over my stall.

You don't, at least not voluntarily. On the 1x5+ set, you go one rep short of technical breakdown.

As training age/strength increase, volume has to increase. A good amount of volume increase is related to warmup sets, of course. A 405 squat requires more warmup sets than a 135 squat.

Post: #4098

(05-29-2018 06:53 PM)Repo Wrote:  Have you tried doing negatives with a higher weight, such as 315, with spotters to bring it up and then you just try to control the fall as best you can?

Good idea man! Things fall apart for me when it gets to 90%+ of my max and I start losing tightness and control when I bring the bar down. Overloading the negative portion of the lift seems like it might help for sure.

Post: #4099

Squatted today with 10% lower weight with no pain and with improved form. I watched a lot of tutorials past few days and identified some minor issues. Also I watched some tutorials for better stretching and I think it helped me with my hip issues which are not really continuous pain/unease but more of a come and go issues.

Post: #4100

Regarding my deadlift question from previous page, here is something I noticed today. Looking at the mirror from the front while in the lowest deadlift position seemed to me that I was very near horizontal position. This is an optic illusion. Those mirrors, same nuisance as with squat some time ago.

When I let go of barbell, took same stance and turned myself to the side and looked at the mirror, I noticed that I am actually at angle, but not the one SS advocates.
Reason is actually very simple, both me and my coach have torso/arms/legs length in such way that our deadlift bottom position is at the lower angle than some other guys out there, including illustrations in the SS book. That actually makes sense. Three different people can utilize same technique to lift barbell from the floor, but if they are different in body composition, they will look different during lifting.