Post: #26

(03-12-2012 07:44 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  People of different races actually have more interaction with each other in the South. It's not uncommon for them to invite each other into their homes. It's just there's traditions and norms to maintain that are unique to that region. There's a line that people know not to cross (i.e. interracial dating). You got to keep in mind that Southerners lived on a plantation economy and it took a civil war to get them to industrialize. Many of them are still bitter about that, whether openly or not.

In the North, blacks and whites rarely interact in an intimate way. They may be cool with each other at work and stuff but rarely do they go to into each others homes, etc. Life up North is centered on industrial values, but race still operates in a subtle way. It gets very political at work the higher you move up the ladder.

Culturally, life up north isn't centered around family and community the way it is in the South.

I was born and raised in NYC. My mother is from Central NC (near a Cherokee Rez - my great-great grands are were Native Americans), and my dad was born and raised in the heart of the Confederacy, Charleston, S.C. Charleston is a major tourist city, but they still never really got over it. That city is a monument to the confederacy. My Aunt showed me a hotel on King Street where as children they weren't allowed to walk. If their feet touched the pavement, someone came out with a hose to wash it down. I can't say racism is WORSE up north. Just different. Hencredible touched on the basis of it - the lack of substantive contact. As he said, you're cool at work, and might even hang out a bit, but you're not invited back to the house. You don't know their family. Things true friends share. NY is a series of ethnic enclaves - I can't think of too many multi-racial communities. If you want to buy a place in a neighborhood that's largely white, real estate agents will try to steer you somewhere else, with the believe that you'll be "more comfortable" in another neighborhood. Most public schools reflect their neighborhoods, so schools end up segregated also. If more kids grew up with different kids, you'd see a lot of this go away, but unfortunately adults ruin kids. The kinds of parents that have a birthday party but don't invite the one or two black kids in the class. That's the kind of thing that keeps it alive.

Post: #27

(03-12-2012 08:26 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 08:17 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 08:09 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 07:57 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 07:51 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  I've noticed in the south, poverty tends to tear down racial walls REAL quick. When everyones dirt poor no one cares about color any more

I don't believe that at all. The more poor people are, the more openly racist they tend to be. Being poor does not make people colorblind at all. Tim Wise even spoke at length on this.

In 2010, Tim Wise published an essay on the web in which he openly and gleefully celebrated his dream of the extinction of white people in America

Do you agree with that too?

Who's the racist here?

Link?

And btw people, I spent several years LIVING in the south. I've lived back east and on the west coast. There's no way in hell anyone can tell me that it's the same everywhere. I know the NE has it's problems, mainly because people are very territorial about their ethnic neighborhoods. Out west,I don't really see that sort of thing. I'm not comparing the south with the north, I'm comparing the south with the west.

The west coast is completely different from the rest of the US. However, Socal feels like Alabama in some places. I think LA has many "reminders" of the south. First of all, most black people who are actually from LA for real come from the South. Either them, their parents or grandparents relocated there from Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi or South Carolina. That aspect of LA culture is very southern.


I used to live in San Francisco which was extremely progressive with respect to race relations. That was the most racially harmonious place I've ever been to (only arguably second to Brazil).

Which places?

Post: #28

"The west coast is completely different from the rest of the US. However, Socal feels like Alabama in some places. I think LA has many "reminders" of the south. First of all, most black people who are actually from LA for real come from the South. Either them, their parents or grandparents relocated there from Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi or South Carolina. That aspect of LA culture is very southern."

Yep. Just like the migration north, many blacks went to California for jobs (agriculture, airplane manufacturing factory jobs, etc.) LA is VERY country in some places. You can still hear the twang. Hey, without them we wouldn't have "Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles!"

Post: #29

(03-12-2012 08:00 PM)MHaes Wrote:  @G, Only one I can think of is Memphis.

I don't doubt that, but are you 100% on this?

Another one:

Georgia, Red and wack.

Atlanta, Blue and cool.

Post: #30

(03-12-2012 09:14 PM)azulsombra Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 08:26 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 08:17 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 08:09 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 07:57 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  I don't believe that at all. The more poor people are, the more openly racist they tend to be. Being poor does not make people colorblind at all. Tim Wise even spoke at length on this.

In 2010, Tim Wise published an essay on the web in which he openly and gleefully celebrated his dream of the extinction of white people in America

Do you agree with that too?

Who's the racist here?

Link?

And btw people, I spent several years LIVING in the south. I've lived back east and on the west coast. There's no way in hell anyone can tell me that it's the same everywhere. I know the NE has it's problems, mainly because people are very territorial about their ethnic neighborhoods. Out west,I don't really see that sort of thing. I'm not comparing the south with the north, I'm comparing the south with the west.

The west coast is completely different from the rest of the US. However, Socal feels like Alabama in some places. I think LA has many "reminders" of the south. First of all, most black people who are actually from LA for real come from the South. Either them, their parents or grandparents relocated there from Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi or South Carolina. That aspect of LA culture is very southern.


I used to live in San Francisco which was extremely progressive with respect to race relations. That was the most racially harmonious place I've ever been to (only arguably second to Brazil).

Which places?

All those hoods in South Los Angeles (south of I-10).

Post: #31

Squeal!!

Classic scene...I love the South!!

Post: #32

I actually thought the people in the OP's video seemed like decent enough people.

Sure, they were roughing it. Poor and godfearing. But that isn't so bad on the scale of things. I wouldn't be scared to talk to those people on the street. there are plenty of people scarier than that in the world.

EDIT: El mechanico's link is a good example. That crazy woman is scarier than all those bible belt fellows from the first vid.

Post: #33

(03-12-2012 07:05 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Well, not just the racism, but widespread beliefs that God is what will fix the economy, people living in 3rd world conditions voting for the 1% because they think it's about "morals and values", etc.

Edit --

I'm not trying to make this solely a commentary on race or this thread will get shut down. They said a lot of shit in the video that has my head shaking about other issues besides race.

Dude, believe it or not this is how a good chunk of the planet views things. Superstitious and clannish.

This is how the majority of the world thinks, bra.

Post: #34

I'm from a semi-southern family living on the border between states. I think it's two breeds of racism separately. The southern racism seems to be a bit more historically based and because it's a culture that hasn't moved on from the 1860s except to embrace Reagan. Tradition rules the roost there.
In the north, people in the suburbs seem to be open-minded. In the city, it breaks down. If you consistently see young black men robbing stores, sooner or later, young black man = robbed store. That's the way people learn, that's human nature, and it's almost bizarre because it's become more about impressions. As soon as someone doesn't I guess "trigger" that response, doesn't meet that hip-hop/banger/ghetto impression, the "racism" disappears. I think it's more in the north about certain subsets of ethnic cultures that trigger it, certain societal behaviors and I think it's more societal and a learned behavior.
Also, as pointed out above, anywhere you have poverty you have people looking to point a finger. "It's gotta be the [ethnicity & stereotypical behavior] again!" It's probably also a reaction to the fact that white people are becoming a minority, yet have no protection or govt preference, and that's kind of unsettling to them.

Those are just my two cents.

Post: #35

(03-12-2012 09:10 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  Most public schools reflect their neighborhoods, so schools end up segregated also. If more kids grew up with different kids, you'd see a lot of this go away, but unfortunately adults ruin kids.

That's only with the 'right' other kids. I met a blonde girl awhile back who had gone to a majority Hispanic school, and she didn't have the most pleasant experience. If you're white and go to such a school and get trashed for it, even while your parents are total hippies, I don't think you'd have such a rosy view of things. Same for if you're black and send your kid to a school where the white kids are really clannish.

It doesn't matter what color you are, if you have a chance to get your kid away from people like that subway chick, or skinheads, or cholos, you'll take it.

Post: #36

(03-13-2012 11:07 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 09:10 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  Most public schools reflect their neighborhoods, so schools end up segregated also. If more kids grew up with different kids, you'd see a lot of this go away, but unfortunately adults ruin kids.

That's only with the 'right' other kids. I met a blonde girl awhile back who had gone to a majority Hispanic school, and she didn't have the most pleasant experience. If you're white and go to such a school and get trashed for it, even while your parents are total hippies, I don't think you'd have such a rosy view of things. Same for if you're black and send your kid to a school where the white kids are really clannish.

It doesn't matter what color you are, if you have a chance to get your kid away from people like that subway chick, or skinheads, or cholos, you'll take it.

You kind of repeated my point. I said schools are largely segregated, and that odd kid that doesn't "belong" gets ostracized. I meant if kids GREW UP (not just attended school) with kids different from them, you'd see less racism - namely more diverse neighborhoods. If a neighborhood is more diverse, the neighborhood schools will likely be also. My own brother went to a predominantly white private junior high/high school, and his only real friends there were a couple of other black kids and an Asian kid. They were cool in school, but after, you didn't get invited along to anything. He didn't always like it there, but it was a quality education so you do what you have to.

Post: #37

(03-13-2012 12:01 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 11:07 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 09:10 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  Most public schools reflect their neighborhoods, so schools end up segregated also. If more kids grew up with different kids, you'd see a lot of this go away, but unfortunately adults ruin kids.

That's only with the 'right' other kids. I met a blonde girl awhile back who had gone to a majority Hispanic school, and she didn't have the most pleasant experience. If you're white and go to such a school and get trashed for it, even while your parents are total hippies, I don't think you'd have such a rosy view of things. Same for if you're black and send your kid to a school where the white kids are really clannish.

It doesn't matter what color you are, if you have a chance to get your kid away from people like that subway chick, or skinheads, or cholos, you'll take it.

You kind of repeated my point. I said schools are largely segregated, and that odd kid that doesn't "belong" gets ostracized. I meant if kids GREW UP (not just attended school) with kids different from them, you'd see less racism - namely more diverse neighborhoods. If a neighborhood is more diverse, the neighborhood schools will likely be also. My own brother went to a predominantly white private junior high/high school, and his only real friends there were a couple of other black kids and an Asian kid. They were cool in school, but after, you didn't get invited along to anything. He didn't always like it there, but it was a quality education so you do what you have to.

I see your point, and I realize mine was separate from yours. I meant that everyone preaches tolerance and diversity, but if you get paired with a bunch of bad apples of a different race, you're probably not going to think very well of them. So exposure to 'diversity' in that case will make you *less* tolerant.

I do feel for your brother though. I doubt it was racism, but if people don't want to hang out with you, the effect is the same. I've always found it a little strange how upper middle class enclaves tend to breed insularity. Many of the people that come out of that environment are unable to socialize with anyone outside their circle. You'll find them years later, with the same friends they made in summer camps and prep schools. One way or another, they're nearly always living in places where they have lots of old friends. Not all the kids are like that, but the popular kids, the ones who run the main scene, often are. Think the sorority girl who can't talk to anyone unless they have sixty friends in common. Sort of like what Roosh described of the Icelanders, and the ethnic Danes at the folk school my friends attended.

Post: #38

Post: #39

deleted post....

Post: #40

(03-13-2012 12:11 PM)basilransom Wrote:  I've always found it a little strange how upper middle class enclaves tend to breed insularity. Many of the people that come out of that environment are unable to socialize with anyone outside their circle. You'll find them years later, with the same friends they made in summer camps and prep schools. One way or another, they're nearly always living in places where they have lots of old friends. Not all the kids are like that, but the popular kids, the ones who run the main scene, often are.

You've just described about 80% of the students on my campus.

Quote:Think the sorority girl who can't talk to anyone unless they have sixty friends in common.

And now you've completely nailed down the vast majority of the sorority girls on my campus (and, since most girls on my campus are in sororities...you see where that road leads). I'd give a +1 if we still did that.

These are the type of girls who are very difficult to even get close to. They'll be courteous with you in class one day (because you had to work on an assignment together or something) and then completely ignore you (as in not even look at you) the next. They'll never accept your friend requests even if you've already met them several times and two or three dozen mutual friends (anything less than 60 or so is really a no-go). They only ever talk/date/hang out with certain "socially proofed" folks, people from their world or with very strong connections to it.

You'll see the occasional Oklahoman, Californian or Texan among them, but most are from the Mid-Atlantic and Northeastern states. They're all affluent (obviously). Generally, they come from a pretty small world. Greenwich, CT and La Jolla, CA may be 3000 miles apart, but the culture/affluence in both places is similar. They very much prefer to stay within this world. Their grand parents did it, their parents did it and they will do it for the rest of their lives.

I guess I can't blame them for being the way they are (many obviously know no better), but they're very difficult to like.

Judging from what I've experienced up here, my honest opinion is that racism up north is definitely underrated. I would not say it is worse than what is seen down south, but it is certainly worse than people think it is. Even at some Ivy League schools it is clearly visible.

Post: #41

(03-13-2012 01:12 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Generally, they come from a pretty small world. Greenwich, CT and La Jolla, CA may be 3000 miles apart, but the culture/affluence in both places is similar.

Break this down a little more.

In what respects?

(Not challenging you, I am curious as to your opinions).

Post: #42

(03-13-2012 12:11 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 12:01 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 11:07 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 09:10 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  Most public schools reflect their neighborhoods, so schools end up segregated also. If more kids grew up with different kids, you'd see a lot of this go away, but unfortunately adults ruin kids.

That's only with the 'right' other kids. I met a blonde girl awhile back who had gone to a majority Hispanic school, and she didn't have the most pleasant experience. If you're white and go to such a school and get trashed for it, even while your parents are total hippies, I don't think you'd have such a rosy view of things. Same for if you're black and send your kid to a school where the white kids are really clannish.

It doesn't matter what color you are, if you have a chance to get your kid away from people like that subway chick, or skinheads, or cholos, you'll take it.

You kind of repeated my point. I said schools are largely segregated, and that odd kid that doesn't "belong" gets ostracized. I meant if kids GREW UP (not just attended school) with kids different from them, you'd see less racism - namely more diverse neighborhoods. If a neighborhood is more diverse, the neighborhood schools will likely be also. My own brother went to a predominantly white private junior high/high school, and his only real friends there were a couple of other black kids and an Asian kid. They were cool in school, but after, you didn't get invited along to anything. He didn't always like it there, but it was a quality education so you do what you have to.

I see your point, and I realize mine was separate from yours. I meant that everyone preaches tolerance and diversity, but if you get paired with a bunch of bad apples of a different race, you're probably not going to think very well of them. So exposure to 'diversity' in that case will make you *less* tolerant.

I do feel for your brother though. I doubt it was racism, but if people don't want to hang out with you, the effect is the same. I've always found it a little strange how upper middle class enclaves tend to breed insularity. Many of the people that come out of that environment are unable to socialize with anyone outside their circle. You'll find them years later, with the same friends they made in summer camps and prep schools. One way or another, they're nearly always living in places where they have lots of old friends. Not all the kids are like that, but the popular kids, the ones who run the main scene, often are. Think the sorority girl who can't talk to anyone unless they have sixty friends in common. Sort of like what Roosh described of the Icelanders, and the ethnic Danes at the folk school my friends attended.

It isn't a virulent form of racism, but race does matter. It's basically what we were talking about, in that in their world, there's no SUBSTANTIVE contact. Just on a human level, it wouldn't be a major undertaking to invite that kid along, but part of it is also how they'll be viewed by certain peers who do hold certain views of people that aren't like them. There's this limit on just how good of friends you can be with certain types of people, even if you think they're cool.

Over the years I've encountered a few people here and there who were that black kid in a predominantly white school. At my last job I worked with a woman who grew up in Dorchester, MA. She was that kid that didn't get invited to other kid's parties, while everyone else did.

I grew up in Harlem/East Harlem, so until I went to college, I really wasn't around anyone other than blacks or Latinos. But some of my coolest college buddies were white guys. All but one of my roommates in college were white, and there were never any problems. Sure, there are jokes about the kind of music you listen to, and your fashion, but it's all in good humor. I ended up getting turned on to music I might never have stumbled onto otherwise. We all hung out, got drunk together, played intramural sports together, watched tv together. Occasionally there would be a little flare-up (there's always a little something under the surface), but we'd get past it. During a break, a guy invited me up to his family's home in Ballston Spa, NY because we were that cool with each other. His girlfriend was Pacific Islander, from Guam, so maybe I simply found a guy that didn't really care about race. I spend a long weekend playing pick-up football with his brothers and girlfriend's brothers and his friends from the area. I had another friend, who I recently reconnected with, invite me up to her house in Connecticut when we were home on a break. Recently, she asked me if I remembered. She told me that her mom adored me, but people in the neighborhood talked shit about her because she had a black dude come to visit and hang out with her (we weren't fucking). I'm not naive about the world I live in, but that's still kind of fucked up, as if it were beneath them to have anything to do with someone black. There was the occasional issue with townies, but college towns can be that way, and if it isn't something racial, it's simply because as a student you're a visitor in their town and they're territorial.

Many of the friends I have now were guys that I met as an adult through one of my first cousins. I'm a little older than them, so we didn't hang when we were younger. They all first met in Jr. High (Wagner JHS on the upper East Side in NY), and that school draws kids from all over Manhattan. From then some of them went to Bronx Science, another incredibly diverse school. They all hung together, know each other's parents, etc. So most of my best friends are cool with whoever is cool with them. And it isn't some bullshit about not seeing differences - it's more about embracing differences and appreciating them, and realizing they aren't barriers to anything significant. It's kind of funny - I went to a basketball camp in Silver Spring, Maryland between my jr and sr years of high school. When kids there found out I was from NY, they asked me shit like, "Have you ever seen a dead body?" I had to laugh, because it was simply the perception they probably drew from media, or some ignorant adult about New York. If you were black from New York, you had to duck bullets and step over bodies to get to school...HA HA!

Post: #43

Do people really think there's no racism up north on the east coast? I didn't know anyone could be so gullible (if there's people that think that).

Post: #44

(03-13-2012 01:15 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 01:12 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Generally, they come from a pretty small world. Greenwich, CT and La Jolla, CA may be 3000 miles apart, but the culture/affluence in both places is similar.

Break this down a little more.

In what respects?

(Not challenging you, I am curious as to your opinions).

I'm from right next to Greenwich CT. Fairfield County is racist as it gets. Try driving in my town at night if you're black or PR and see what happens to you.

Post: #45

(03-13-2012 01:25 PM)houston Wrote:  Do people really think there's no racism up north on the east coast? I didn't know anyone could be so gullible (if there's people that think that).

Houston, people that think that are probably people that don't live there. It isn't so much gullibility (is that a word?) as it is just ignorance. The South has the historic reputation of being the MOST racist, and you know once someone/something gets labeled, it just get perpetuated, even long past the point where that label may no longer fit. Anyone that grew up in the Northeast knows that isn't true. There's also another explanation. Certain groups are so isolated from people that are different from themselves that they simply don't feel or see racism, or care about it in any particular way.

Post: #46

(03-13-2012 01:15 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 01:12 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Generally, they come from a pretty small world. Greenwich, CT and La Jolla, CA may be 3000 miles apart, but the culture/affluence in both places is similar.

Break this down a little more.

In what respects?

(Not challenging you, I am curious as to your opinions).

I'm saying that the people have a lot in common.

1. They're all very affluent (obvious)
2. They're all well educated (these people all tend to go to the same group of 30 or so elite schools in the country)
3. They tend to have similar lifestyles (again, aided by similar money-they travel quite a bit to the same destinations, are all pretty fit, usually somewhat athletic, wear the same brands of clothing, etc)
4. They tend to work similar jobs (finance being the most common, but other white collar jobs in Law, Entertainment and Medicine are present too).
5. They tend to have similar values (few only-children in this demographic, very few single-parent homes, ZERO births out of wedlock, marriage rates remain fairly high, etc).

These people tend to be centered in places like these, which are geographically distinct and often quite far away from one another.

It doesn't matter, because this class of people (basically the closest thing America has to an aristocracy) is the same. Their kids go to the same high schools and colleges, work the same kinds of jobs, marry each other, and generally just mesh completely.

There isn't a lot of color in this world either, and do not think that these folks aren't weary of said color. Racism (or, at best, prejudice/fear based upon ethnicity) is very much alive among this set of folks.

They're all in their own world. I wrote some more on this topic here, btw, this time talking about Princeton, NJ.
Different place, same folks.

Post: #47

(03-13-2012 01:37 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 01:15 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-13-2012 01:12 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Generally, they come from a pretty small world. Greenwich, CT and La Jolla, CA may be 3000 miles apart, but the culture/affluence in both places is similar.

Break this down a little more.

In what respects?

(Not challenging you, I am curious as to your opinions).

I'm saying that the people have a lot in common.

1. They're all very affluent (obvious)
2. They're all well educated (these people all tend to go to the same group of 30 or so elite schools in the country)
3. They tend to have similar lifestyles (again, aided by similar money-they travel quite a bit to the same destinations, are all pretty fit, usually somewhat athletic, wear the same brands of clothing, etc)
4. They tend to work similar jobs (finance being the most common, but other white collar jobs in Law, Entertainment and Medicine are present too).
5. They tend to have similar values (few only-children in this demographic, very few single-parent homes, ZERO births out of wedlock, marriage rates remain fairly high, etc).

These people tend to be centered in places like these, which are geographically distinct and often quite far away from one another.

It doesn't matter, because this class of people (basically the closest thing America has to an aristocracy) is the same. Their kids go to the same high schools and colleges, work the same kinds of jobs, marry each other, and generally just mesh completely.

There isn't a lot of color in this world either, and do not think that these folks aren't weary of said color. Racism (or, at best, prejudice/fear based upon ethnicity) is very much alive among this set of folks.

They're all in their own world. I wrote some more on this topic here, btw, this time talking about Princeton, NJ.
Different place, same folks.

Obviously as a white guy, I haven't felt racism from other whites. But I'll be damn if some of the most racist incidents I've witnessed/been victim of didn't come from blacks and Hispanics.

I'm sure there are still a few areas that are all-white might intimidate non-whites who pass through.

But inverse is far more common in my experience.

Post: #48

(03-13-2012 01:37 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  There isn't a lot of color in this world either, and do not think that these folks aren't weary of said color. Racism (or, at best, prejudice/fear based upon ethnicity) is very much alive among this set of folks.

These people aren't racist per se. They're just very insular. To an outsider of a different color, they can feel like the same thing. There invariably are a few non-white people among them, and they aren't treated any worse than anyone else. They may make the occasional casually racist joke, but so does everyone else. It's not racism so much as casual xenophobia.

And as you alluded, they may travel the world but in reality they can be the most provincial, insular people you'll ever meet.

Post: #49

The story of Trayvon Martin sheds some light on the scary south and the illusion of equality in the U.S.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-wa...1-hxfWQsz4

Post: #50

(03-13-2012 02:41 PM)jariel Wrote:  The story of Trayvon Martin sheds some light on the scary south and the illusion of equality in the U.S.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-wa...1-hxfWQsz4

http://politicalbyline.com/2011/07/17/mo...ensors-it/