Post: #26

I had a similar expirience twice in a row after getting back coming out of an LTR

and this cost me 2 bangs

In my opinion i made the same error as the OP, the first one i gave tea and the second one i gave water on getting into my place

OP do not give potential SNL who are at your place tea, water, anything but alchohol, this is the fastest way to LMR, it dilutes all the horniness in my expirience

I repeat do not offer water when she is at your place, always continue the partying @ your place by offering some alchohol

Post: #27

(04-11-2018 06:03 PM)yang2287 Wrote:  I had a similar expirience twice in a row after getting back coming out of an LTR

and this cost me 2 bangs

In my opinion i made the same error as the OP, the first one i gave tea and the second one i gave water on getting into my place

OP do not give potential SNL who are at your place tea, water, anything but alchohol, this is the fastest way to LMR, it dilutes all the horniness in my expirience

I repeat do not offer water when she is at your place, always continue the partying @ your place by offering some alchohol

Had nothing to do with alcohol or water

Quote:I walk into the club at around midnight and within minutes I meet an attractive girl and her friend. I dance with this girl, and within a couple of minutes we're making out. We go on making out on and off the dance floor for about an hour, her hands are all over my body and she clearly enjoys my company.

and everything to do "lighting the fuse" too early. Rookie mistake

Repeat after me

"Save the makeout until you are in the bang location"

This tactic alone should increase close rates tremendously

Post: #28

(04-11-2018 07:57 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 06:03 PM)yang2287 Wrote:  I had a similar expirience twice in a row after getting back coming out of an LTR

and this cost me 2 bangs

In my opinion i made the same error as the OP, the first one i gave tea and the second one i gave water on getting into my place

OP do not give potential SNL who are at your place tea, water, anything but alchohol, this is the fastest way to LMR, it dilutes all the horniness in my expirience

I repeat do not offer water when she is at your place, always continue the partying @ your place by offering some alchohol

Had nothing to do with alcohol or water

Quote:I walk into the club at around midnight and within minutes I meet an attractive girl and her friend. I dance with this girl, and within a couple of minutes we're making out. We go on making out on and off the dance floor for about an hour, her hands are all over my body and she clearly enjoys my company.

and everything to do "lighting the fuse" too early. Rookie mistake

Repeat after me

"Save the makeout until you are in the bang location"

This tactic alone should increase close rates tremendously

But in a club situation, how do you then escalate if you are not making out.. you meet her in the dance floor. So you dance and bring her out for a chat before suggesting you leave? In most cases, it is just too loud to talk and doing so often spoils the vibe.

Post: #29

Short version: you weren't aggressive enough.

It was probably something in your body language and vibe that turned her off.

She was into you clearly, that's why she made out and left with you.

Based on your initial interaction she probably thought you were a dominant, alpha type guy who was going to show her a good time in the sack.

But at some point after leaving the club you convinced her otherwise and so she shuttered up the poony.

I've found that you've got to keep the playful, sexual vibe going the entire time that you're driving to the hoop.

In fact, you want to be turning the heat up more and more.

Were you leaving the club with your arm around her waist, lightly tugging at her hair, pushing her playfully, teasing her, smelling her, kissing her, etc?

Or were you having "nice, interesting conversations"? Because you should be talking less and less as seduction progresses.

Seduction happens in low energy. If you're yammering on you're doing it wrong.

Your body should be doing the talking at this point.

Point #2, you had an almost naked chick in your bed and you should have pushed for the lay.

Worst that could have happened is that she wouldn't have been into it, and would have left.

In which case great, you get the bed all to yourself and you get to keep your pride.

Sounds like you just need to be more unabashed in your sexuality, wear it on your sleeve (not in a leering way), and make your intentions clear at all times.

Better luck next time!

Post: #30

(04-11-2018 10:40 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  But in a club situation, how do you then escalate if you are not making out.. you meet her in the dance floor. So you dance and bring her out for a chat before suggesting you leave? In most cases, it is just too loud to talk and doing so often spoils the vibe.

Dont do clubs for bangs unless:

A. You live upstairs cause logistics are everything. Would you light a stick of dynamite then call an Uber to take you where you want it to explode? Of course not.

The makeout should be the fuse ignition that leads straight to the bang (pun intended)

B. Your game is ultra tight. Its hard to keep a chick revved up at the same level during the transition. Can it be done and does it happen? Of course but the conversion rates are way way lower for most guys*. (Some guys do really well at club pulls)

C. You can be "VIP / celeb" status. You dont have to necessarily be either but you have to "elevate" up above the pack. You can be the DJ, work there, or super good dancer or something that makes you stand out...else youre a generic clown level chode that girls will use for entertainment.

And make no mistake. A makeout means absolutely nothing for a club chick who's been making out with "boys" for nearly a decade by the time she's 22-23

D. You can bang in the club. If you can get away with getting a handy or smoky in some dark corner or outside in the car the try for that rather than try to transition her home (or see A)

Now if you like going to clubs for the music, and scene and whatnot and can get makeouts then Id try this: If you know a chick is wanting to makeout then instead of kissing just give her a quick brush of the lips and pull back. Dont kiss. Now this takes master level self control but it pays off for two big reasons

1. You just ramped up the sexual tension in her a bunch. Anticipation is a vital part of a chicks attraction to arousal sequence.

2. You maintain plausible deniability. When you now say "Lets get out of here" she's thinking "Oh we're just going to his place to makeout" But in reality youre just waiting to "light that fuse" until you want it to go "bang"


* A much better conversion rate can be attained by having a go to, local bar where you talk to a girl and roll right into Tuth's recipe for 1st date bangs.

Post: #31

^-- @PapayaTapper -- I've been meaning to posit:

I have this "halfway" thing with your "no make-out until bang imminent" policy: a sexy almost-makeout that I quickly end, which builds just enough trust and sexy discretion to continue tonight's journey.

Let me 'splain: say I'm at venue 1 or 2 with her and tension is ramping up, close talking, touching, vibes. I know she would reciprocate a kiss at this point.

I do my standard make-out move. The moment she reciprocates -- sexual tension starting to pop -- our mouths are still open and only hot lip contact, her tongue instinctively searching for mine, I soft-bite one of her lips, pull back and thumb her hips a couple inches outward from me as if to say "Not Now, Now is not the time" in one plane while saying "gonna F the S outta you soon as we get privacy, here's a taste of what's to come" in the other.

This is all happening in 2 or so full seconds.

So it's an "almost make-out" plus a gallon of animal intentions, plausible deniability, "showing restraint", "showing aggression", composing tingles, resolved to a "push" that she'll follow your lead back to "normality" on.

Right after this, she's either:

- saving face / giggling / cute-shy, but really wet and suddenly very ready to leave the venue

- turned-on / ready to PDA [don't] / will growl at you or grab your junk with a fuck-me stare, then you have to re-calm her down, very ready to leave venue


After all, you just broke, and set limits with her in flash of "romance" she will only recall as "a hot almost make-out which made me want more TONIGHT".


Notes:
- Though it sounds advanced, it is accessible to any intermediate guy who is in touch with the vibe and the sexual tension

- I am fine with <20 minute cab rides (bed >> bath >>> alley), and while we're on that topic,

#TEAM HAND ON MID THIGH IN CAB!!!



TL;[email protected]: would you count any "almost-makeouts-that-build-but-not-burst-tension" as in violation of your rule?

Post: #32

My only "rule" is: If it works for you it works for you.

Have I gotten the bang after kissing in a club? Yes. But I also quickly realized long ago, even before joining RVF that there were a) factors that resulted in bangs and b) factors that resulted in no bangs.

Eliminating as many of "b" factors as possible means a better success rate. For me kissing before being in the bang location is now in the "b" category.

A deeper understanding of the differences between male (physical>emotional) arousal and female (emotional>physical) arousal make the "whys" very clear

To me when we're talking about game at the end of the day we are talking heuristics. Id say more 'guideline' to to increase the probability that you'll achieve your goal. In this case sex...right?

Do you want a challenge or do you want sex?

Would you rather have a conversion ratio that makes each and every opportunity mean something or would you rather have a "system" that makes sex almost a forgone conclusion once you get a girl in the process?

Do you want sex with higher quality women?

For most men quantity needs to be 'unlocked" before "quality" can. This forum si littered with threads that start out with "I was doing so well, we were making out then poof...what happened?"

You do you. If it works and youre satisfied then what I think doesn't matter

Im in an LTR now with an insanely hot EE 25 yo. Im 46. Before that "no lighting the fuse before I wanted it to detonate" was part of a proven system that had a 98% success rate for me.

Thats all I know for sure

Post: #33

I disagree with where this thread has gone, and I usually think very highly of WIA's posts.

She stripped down. She doesn't strip if she doesn't want to bang. I think you had it and just didn't pull the trigger.

This was the key sentence for me:
"When we get in the cab, she sits down at the opposite side of the backseat from me, leaning towards the door."

You're looking for a sign. "Tell me you want me. Show me you want me to make a move." You don't need to analyze how she's sitting in the cab. I used to do this, too. It takes the risk away for you. Women are getting worse and worse about giving signs that they're down. I've started ignoring whether I felt like she was down and just escalate blindly, and I've been shocked how often things have gone well in situations I thought for sure I'd get the cold shoulder.

I think if you had started making out with her or fingering her, the lay was yours. Good work, just close! You should have tried in the morning, too.

Post: #34

This happened to me last night, the maths added up but it all went wrong. Me and a guy friend met with 2 Turkish girls (both 7's or so), spent the whole day with them, played pool with them, took them to a well equipped home with wine and netflix in my friends bmw, got drunk at 1am.. The story should write itself.

However, the attraction was weak from their part and so was my escalation, there were awkward silences every now and then. I tried getting close to my girl on the sofa and it was fine, until at 3am the two girls whisper to eachother indirectly that they don't want to sleep with us. I feel I should have been more assertive but the attraction wasn't strong in the first place, it's a shame because logistically this whole situation is perfect.

Post: #35

No one bats 100 percent...

Maybe she really was tired...

Maybe she was on her period and never told you...

Post: #36

(04-12-2018 05:14 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 10:40 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  But in a club situation, how do you then escalate if you are not making out.. you meet her in the dance floor. So you dance and bring her out for a chat before suggesting you leave? In most cases, it is just too loud to talk and doing so often spoils the vibe.

Dont do clubs for bangs unless:

A. You live upstairs cause logistics are everything. Would you light a stick of dynamite then call an Uber to take you where you want it to explode? Of course not.

The makeout should be the fuse ignition that leads straight to the bang (pun intended)

B. Your game is ultra tight. Its hard to keep a chick revved up at the same level during the transition. Can it be done and does it happen? Of course but the conversion rates are way way lower for most guys*. (Some guys do really well at club pulls)

C. You can be "VIP / celeb" status. You dont have to necessarily be either but you have to "elevate" up above the pack. You can be the DJ, work there, or super good dancer or something that makes you stand out...else youre a generic clown level chode that girls will use for entertainment.

And make no mistake. A makeout means absolutely nothing for a club chick who's been making out with "boys" for nearly a decade by the time she's 22-23

D. You can bang in the club. If you can get away with getting a handy or smoky in some dark corner or outside in the car the try for that rather than try to transition her home (or see A)

Now if you like going to clubs for the music, and scene and whatnot and can get makeouts then Id try this: If you know a chick is wanting to makeout then instead of kissing just give her a quick brush of the lips and pull back. Dont kiss. Now this takes master level self control but it pays off for two big reasons

1. You just ramped up the sexual tension in her a bunch. Anticipation is a vital part of a chicks attraction to arousal sequence.

2. You maintain plausible deniability. When you now say "Lets get out of here" she's thinking "Oh we're just going to his place to makeout" But in reality youre just waiting to "light that fuse" until you want it to go "bang"


* A much better conversion rate can be attained by having a go to, local bar where you talk to a girl and roll right into Tuth's recipe for 1st date bangs.

True. Most of the success stories in clubs are coming from guys who know girls beforehand and bring them in social circle style to escalate. A few tinder dates do end up in clubs too. Guys who are new to clubs look at these and think this is the way to go only to go home burning cash and a hangover to boot.

It looks like most times, the mistake that guys do is like Papaya said, too much making out. It helps to bring her away from the dance floor after a bit for a convo + more escalation (if its not too loud) or change location but its easier said than done. Also that would depend on her friends as well.

These days with the herd mentality among girls, you got to hope that their friends are hooking up for the night for her to feel more at ease. Its more about luck,her looking for someone that night AND her really feeling you at that moment.

Post: #37

(04-16-2018 09:09 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 05:14 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 10:40 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  But in a club situation, how do you then escalate if you are not making out.. you meet her in the dance floor. So you dance and bring her out for a chat before suggesting you leave? In most cases, it is just too loud to talk and doing so often spoils the vibe.

Dont do clubs for bangs unless:

A. You live upstairs cause logistics are everything. Would you light a stick of dynamite then call an Uber to take you where you want it to explode? Of course not.

The makeout should be the fuse ignition that leads straight to the bang (pun intended)

B. Your game is ultra tight. Its hard to keep a chick revved up at the same level during the transition. Can it be done and does it happen? Of course but the conversion rates are way way lower for most guys*. (Some guys do really well at club pulls)

C. You can be "VIP / celeb" status. You dont have to necessarily be either but you have to "elevate" up above the pack. You can be the DJ, work there, or super good dancer or something that makes you stand out...else youre a generic clown level chode that girls will use for entertainment.

And make no mistake. A makeout means absolutely nothing for a club chick who's been making out with "boys" for nearly a decade by the time she's 22-23

D. You can bang in the club. If you can get away with getting a handy or smoky in some dark corner or outside in the car the try for that rather than try to transition her home (or see A)

Now if you like going to clubs for the music, and scene and whatnot and can get makeouts then Id try this: If you know a chick is wanting to makeout then instead of kissing just give her a quick brush of the lips and pull back. Dont kiss. Now this takes master level self control but it pays off for two big reasons

1. You just ramped up the sexual tension in her a bunch. Anticipation is a vital part of a chicks attraction to arousal sequence.

2. You maintain plausible deniability. When you now say "Lets get out of here" she's thinking "Oh we're just going to his place to makeout" But in reality youre just waiting to "light that fuse" until you want it to go "bang"


* A much better conversion rate can be attained by having a go to, local bar where you talk to a girl and roll right into Tuth's recipe for 1st date bangs.

True. Most of the success stories in clubs are coming from guys who know girls beforehand and bring them in social circle style to escalate. A few tinder dates do end up in clubs too. Guys who are new to clubs look at these and think this is the way to go only to go home burning cash and a hangover to boot.

It looks like most times, the mistake that guys do is like Papaya said, too much making out. It helps to bring her away from the dance floor after a bit for a convo + more escalation (if its not too loud) or change location but its easier said than done. Also that would depend on her friends as well.

These days with the herd mentality among girls, you got to hope that their friends are hooking up for the night for her to feel more at ease. Its more about luck,her looking for someone that night AND her really feeling you at that moment.

Another step to take is "inoculating" her against cockblocking and ASD later. As youre rapping say something along the lines of "you look like a strong independent girl that does what she wants and doesn't let other people control her...am I right?" What do think she's (every girls) going to respond with?

Do this shortly before you suggest "Let's get out of here"

Of course this is when rule #1, logistics kicks in.

Post: #38

(04-15-2018 11:47 AM)Mikestar Wrote:  This happened to me last night, the maths added up but it all went wrong. Me and a guy friend met with 2 Turkish girls (both 7's or so), spent the whole day with them, played pool with them, took them to a well equipped home with wine and netflix in my friends bmw, got drunk at 1am.. The story should write itself.

However, the attraction was weak from their part and so was my escalation, there were awkward silences every now and then. I tried getting close to my girl on the sofa and it was fine, until at 3am the two girls whisper to eachother indirectly that they don't want to sleep with us. I feel I should have been more assertive but the attraction wasn't strong in the first place, it's a shame because logistically this whole situation is perfect.

You spend all that time together earlier for two reasons:

1) Build comfort and attraction (obviously)

2) Gather intel to use later (not so obvious) Conversations aren't just for killing time. They are for learning shit you can use later. Girl tells you she likes zebras, teddy bears, or some such shit? Ok...add that shit to the intel file

Should have each isolated a girl each within 20-30 min of getting them back to your home:

"Hey let me show you my zebra pictures in my room". I know you dont have a single fucking zebra picture. She does too. She knows whats up though. You just gave her plausible deniability (and her friend). As soon as your in your room you start sucking face and ease on into the bang like God intended

Post: #39

You guys made out at the club. She agreed to leave with you. She agreed to go to your place. She got down to her underwear and went to your bed. This girl did just about everything except straight up ask "Could you please fuck me?"

I agree with the need-to-be-more-aggressive crowd. This girl didn't turn down a single advance of yours so you weren't get denied anything, and she went along with your every direction... until you stopped directing. Sounds like you just got cold feet going after what you wanted.

I know this thread was started years ago and OP hasn't posted here in over year a year but my response isn't really for him - this goes to any guy who over analyzes. The whole "She was sitting away from me in the cab" and "She was turned away from me in the bed" is bullshit minutiae guys use to psyche themselves out of getting laid. The big picture is the girl has been blatantly showing she was DTF from the onset and OP dropped the ball. I know because I've been there, and I've done this. I had a girl who was aggressively DTF and came back to my place with me and instead of jumping her bones I played it safe and decided to fix her a glass of water and a bowl of fuckin ramen because I thought she was hungry and drank a bit much and within 10 minutes she was passed the fuck out on my couch. Next morning she needed a ride asap to pick up her kid from her baby daddy's place or some shit. Hot piece of ass that I never got to sample and I have no one to blame but myself.

Keep in mind: "Aggressive" here does not mean forcing someone to do something they don't want to do. It simply means taking action and going for what you want without waiting for explicit instruction. It's foolish to wait for a girl to make the move on you here. It's not her job to be the aggressive one.