Post: #1

If you're not the cheating type, avert your eyes.

How much red flag behavior has a girl tolerated in you? And when the plug was pulled, did you or she pull it?

I dumped my East European 19-year-old yesterday. I haven't seen her for a while, so the dumping was via phone/message.

She had been on Tinder and admitted it. But I had almost certainly (or theoretically) created the situation based on my prior behavior, as you'll read.

She says she only got Tinder after we broke up a few weeks ago and got back together. Something was amiss from that point on my radar, so I started asking vague questions and she admitted it without much resistance.

It's hard to say how hard she pushed Tinder and whether it was a reaction to me having used it during our relationship (see below). It is not unusual to find Czech, Polish, and Slovak girls who are cruising for chats and nothing too sexual. As someone who's resided in Eastern Europe extensively since 2013, it's not as crazy as it sounds. It might apply here, maybe not.

So ends a good 18 months of fun and frivolity.

She
- Lost her virginity to me in 2016 when I was dating another girl. She was in high school and had a very estranged boyfriend, to the point where they weren't together. She used to watch me walk by with my girl at the time, random run-ins where the second girl was none the wiser.
- Discovered I was on Tinder in May/June 2017.
- Snooped through my emails and discovered I was booking hotels (I think with double/Queen beds stated) with at least one other girl at the time I was dating her seriously.
- Received/claimed to receive (it probably did come from a concerned citizen, knowing my luck with being spotted) an anonymous letter to her home denouncing me for being with another woman in a nearby city.
- I'll probably think of other male red flags I gave her.

With the cat out of the bag and the relationship over, I admitted that all the cheating rumors were true.

I'm getting the typical "I hate you" emails right now and I suspect she's about to enter "don't contact him" mode.

She insists she hasn't even kissed a guy. I'm non-plussed. Merely being on Tinder is the same as kissing or sex in my book.

Who's been in a similar boat?

Post: #2

Some things that stand out from my experiences with younger chicks:

- break up / make up == not the same after (hence her sniffing around on tinder)

- 18-24 months == very hard to make it past that for a LTR (maybe should be called MTR, heh, as if it breaks past 2 years it could last for 5)

- how you got her is how you'll lose her == you stole her from a guy, someone will steal her from you (abstractly in this case)

Post: #3

Never had an exclusive LTR that caught me being unfaithful or anything, but I've had a regular bang drive to my house unexpected and see me plain as day fucking another girl against the side of my couch through my front storm door. Seemed to make her like me more and we still hooked up for about a year after that until I decided to stop seeing her.

A woman's tolerance for male tom-fuckery is 50/50 her personality and experiences and the man's frame. I've dated a girl whose previous relationship was "open" and she rationalizes that it was healthy and they loved eachother and there was nothing wrong or weird about the fact they fucked other people. That said, when dating me we were exclusive and she definitely did not want me banging other girls nor she other men. This is likely because my demeanor is quite different than the guy she was seeing before me and he was able to frame this open-relationship deal in a way that she felt comfortable.

Post: #4

(01-17-2018 11:33 AM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  - Received/claimed to receive (it probably did come from a concerned citizen, knowing my luck with being spotted) an anonymous letter to her home denouncing me for being with another woman in a nearby city.

LOL. Did she show you the letter?

Post: #5

Red flag behavior by men = game for men

Post: #6

PT is right = not having game is a being a "good boy" and a doormat.

She's guilt tripping you for being a man - all the while she's doing shady shit.

Also, typically the ones doing the accusing are the guilty ones.

Post: #7

(01-17-2018 11:48 AM)456 Wrote:  - break up / make up == not the same after (hence her sniffing around on tinder)

Yes, I had done this a few times.

We can't have counterfactuals here (like subtracting my Tinder/girls in hotel etc stuff), but I definitely pushed the gauntlet.

Revising my earlier post, I'm not saying merely being on Tinder is as objectively bad as macking (or more) with another guy, but if there's more than a 1% chance of that, I conflate being on Tinder with cheating outright.

I don't act on trust based on what a woman says post-break-up or during a break-up process. She probably didn't cheat, actually, but the flag was there for me, even if I had precipitated the whole thing.

Post: #8

(01-17-2018 11:58 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 11:33 AM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  - Received/claimed to receive (it probably did come from a concerned citizen, knowing my luck with being spotted) an anonymous letter to her home denouncing me for being with another woman in a nearby city.

LOL. Did she show you the letter?

From what I remember, her grandmother found it in the letterbox, enveloped. I probably was spotted. I was in two major shopping malls, the two biggest ones for ca. 150 miles. I was at the major bus terminal, where buses from my home city regularly come.

Even if she made up the whole letter thing herself (I say 10% chance she faked it), she'd already found the emails about hotels, seen the Tinder, known I'd cheated on another girl to start with her etc.

(01-17-2018 12:03 PM)kaotic Wrote:  PT is right = not having game is a being a "good boy" and a doormat.

She's guilt tripping you for being a man - all the while she's doing shady shit.

Also, typically the ones doing the accusing are the guilty ones.

Generally true, I agree. But I had done shady shit all the time. She probably reached her limit.

To her credit, she coughed up details rather quick.

Post: #9

(01-17-2018 12:12 PM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  Generally true, I agree. But I had done shady shit all the time. She probably reached her limit.

To her credit, she coughed up details rather quick.

My experience is that most reasonably balanced women don't give two shits about the suspicion of cheating and that it just feeds into preselection. There's an obsessive type that will go detective mode and track everything down, but most don't want it to be true and it just motivates them more. They can "know" without "knowing" as long as they can pretend.

Once they know for real, things can change. Once their friends/family know, they're often too humiliated to keep it together. Grandma getting a letter is bad news.

I once told a girl I was seeing for a few months, straight-up, that I was spending Christmas with my ex's family in another state because "I'd already told her I would and don't want to ruin Christmas for her". She played right through it, didn't ask stupid questions. Later, after I dumped her cold after Valentine's Day, she finally declared it "questionable".

Think about that. You'd have to be seven years old to not realize what that's about. "Questionable". That's all the trouble I ever got from her for rawdogging an ex all weekend, even after dumping her because she told me she loves me.

Post: #10

(01-17-2018 11:49 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  Never had an exclusive LTR that caught me being unfaithful or anything, but I've had a regular bang drive to my house unexpected and see me plain as day fucking another girl against the side of my couch through my front storm door. Seemed to make her like me more and we still hooked up for about a year after that until I decided to stop seeing her.

A woman's tolerance for male tom-fuckery is 50/50 her personality and experiences and the man's frame. I've dated a girl whose previous relationship was "open" and she rationalizes that it was healthy and they loved eachother and there was nothing wrong or weird about the fact they fucked other people. That said, when dating me we were exclusive and she definitely did not want me banging other girls nor she other men. This is likely because my demeanor is quite different than the guy she was seeing before me and he was able to frame this open-relationship deal in a way that she felt comfortable.

This is AKA "nuclear dread game". Its (can be) so effective because it triggers so many of levels of a woman's primal emotional wiring.

She catches you red handed?...this is what goes through her subconscious mind

"Why was my single most valuable attribute, my vagina / womanhood, not enough for him / better than hers?"

If she chooses to try harder to prove to you (and herself) that its not true you basically have a love slave for as long as you want.

Of course it can go the other way and the anger reaction overwhelms her self esteem and she's gone for good. But thats why its the "nuclear" option of dread game

Post: #11

(01-17-2018 12:28 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  If she chooses to try harder to prove to you (and herself) that its not true you basically have a love slave for as long as you want.

Of course it can go the other way and the anger reaction overwhelms her self esteem and she's gone for good. But thats why its the "nuclear" option of dread game

Exactly, this is where the "her personality and experiences" bit comes into play. Your mileage can vary greatly from girl to girl when using such risky tactics.

In my case, the girl was very feminine and submissive and this unintentional nuclear dread was super effective. Even to this day she still messages me here and there out of the blue. I could have this girl back in my bed any time I want.

Post: #12

(01-17-2018 12:28 PM)Jetset Wrote:  My experience is that most reasonably balanced women don't give two shits about the suspicion of cheating and that it just feeds into preselection. There's an obsessive type that will go detective mode and track everything down, but most don't want it to be true and it just motivates them more. They can "know" without "knowing" as long as they can pretend.

Yes and no. If it's more implicit, many like it. But some greet their suspicion with internal meltdowns and erratic behavior. In a sense, can we blame them? Preselection is preselection, but some women, irrespective of environment or social conditioning, just don't like to share a cock with another woman, whether they suspect cheating or know it is actually happening.

Girls constantly question me for my known contact with other girls and go into spiels about me not having eyes only for them and probably fucking other women. It can create some impediments, albeit usually moderate ones.

But if you say, "I'm fucking other girls" outright, it usually ruins the suspecting girl's plausible deniability. If you couple that with a place like Eastern Europe, it frequently starts to finish things off.

Post: #13

My longest LTR (close to 2 years) would tolerate anything until I got locked up for a multiple month period.

Blatant cheating ("hanging out" with multiple other girls in a month, denying everything of course)

Showing up hammered drunk at least once a week

Ghosting for a week multiple times

Trying to fuck her while her mom was asleep in the same room (I was 20 she was 18 high school senior)

At the time I was completely notorious locally and don't recommend this behavior for anyone who's bad boy credentials aren't 100% (I doubt I could pull this shit in my current, basically respectable state)

Post: #14

I had one, she had found a condom in my trashcan. I convinced her I wanted to switch things up and used it to masturbate since it has lube. Guess she bought it.

Same girl I never committed to but let her know I enjoy her company and not banging other girls (lol), she had gotten on tinder and I had seen her profile. Next time she brought it up like a month or two later I just said my friend saw you on tinder so I figured I'd see whats on there. It was like a get out of jail free card. If I would of ever got caught woulda hopefully pulled out the I saw you were on tinder tho card. But we were never in a relationship anyway so not a big deal.

A different girl was being fishy about me seeing other girls. She asked if I was seeing other girls, but we were still newish (2 months?). I told her I was in the beginning because I wasn't sure if we were going to be serious. But as we get more serious I just stop seeing everyone else and only her (lol)

Post: #15

My wife found my bondage ropes (which I don’t use on her). She asked what is that? I said don’t touch my stuff. Case closed.

Another time she was putting things in my suitcase when she accidentally turned on a vibrator (which I didn’t use on her). When I got back to the office she just said ‘there was something making a strange noise in your suitcase’. I didn’t ask any question and neither did she.

Post: #16

Well, I always go with the classic plausible deniability.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman!"

Post: #17

My current LTR allows me to slay all kinds of strange on the side, as long as I remain emotionally monogamous with her, and she doesn't find out about it. She's never directly caught me because I do most of my womanizing on business trips.

That said, I had a situation in college that fits the bill. I had just broken up with my first LTR, and was trying to juggle two fit chicks simultaneously. I was new to game and still a beginner. There were these two chicks: T and L. T was this curvy, perfect ass double D chick. L was a slimmer Asian but had deceptively big tits and great legs. She was very feminine.

Anyways I started banging L and we'd go to the gym together afterwards and lift. I met T there as well, and would flirt with her there when I thought L wasn't watching. L was crazy in bed. Uber submissive and begged me to do all kinds of things to her. However she was extremely possessive.

She staggered over to my crib one night while drunk. I was giving it to T upstairs with the lights on, which i suspect she put two and two together because I usually went to bed early unless I was getting it in.

One of my dumbass friends let her in, even though they could hear T moaning. Needless to say, she was banging on my door and screaming all kinds of obscenities at me. I had no idea what to do. Luckily I had just finished as she was coming up the stairs, because T dried up really quick.

Basically I ended up telling L she was nuts. I thought that was case closed, and I walked her out and told her that her pussy wasn't that special.

However, a couple weeks later, a funny thing happened. L came back to my house and walked through an open door to find me sitting on the couch. She jumped into my lap in this tight spandex and started making out with me right there. I was so confused but I went with it, and ended up banging her as hard as I could.

During the entire thing she was moaning to me to tell her that she was the favorite and that she was the one. Not knowing any better, I said that she was my favorite. I blew in her raw and she just kind of laid there smiling as it dripped out.

Afterwards she was extremely sweet and affectionate. She was calling me daddy again like she had prior to finding me with T. She even agreed to a threesome with T, but I opted out of that. I didn't understand what was happening at the time.

This was my first real lesson in game, but I didn't realize it until a couple of weeks later. I had stumbled across RVF, and after some reading I realized that women will stay in line if your frame is right. If you put them in their place consistently most will follow your lead. I also learned that women don't mind sharing higher value men as long as they feel like they are the favorite.

RVF has given me so many light bulbs, but this was one of the best.

L ended up becoming my LTR afterwards, and managing her while banging other women taught me so much of what I now practice today as game.

Post: #18

(01-17-2018 12:03 PM)kaotic Wrote:  PT is right = not having game is a being a "good boy" and a doormat.

She's guilt tripping you for being a man - all the while she's doing shady shit.

Also, typically the ones doing the accusing are the guilty ones.

Every time I've been caught fucking around or whatever it only helped me. #preselection

Post: #19

Actually, the more fucked up I act, the tighter bishes cling. When I stop returning calls and become distant is when my hold on a girl is at its strongest. I recently didn't reply to one of my girls' good mornings and it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Post: #20

I never respond to texts like that either. Someone broke up with you over it?

Post: #21

Well, she didn't break up with me, but she was very upset about it randomly. I suspect I just put her over the edge with being unavailable, but what can you do?

Post: #22

Yeah it sounds like she was just having a bad day. I wouldn't worry about it either. She could always text you something more specific or call you if she actually wanted/needed to talk to you that badly.