Post: #151

(12-29-2017 09:23 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  snip


I crossed it myself. How do I interact with the man after all of that? Any suggestions? Could there ever be a worse Gamma story than that one?

I talked about my own father a bit here. And I definitely see some parallels just switch around religion with eliciting pity through that kind of bullshit and you'll have what I had to deal with growing up(funny because my Grandpa[his father] was hardcore on the alpha side and much more of a father figure for me but grandmother was more or less a gaslighting cunt that made Grandpa miserable to the point I'm fairly certain it killed him earlier[he gave up on life after dealing with chemo and losing his ability to function without her] and raised my father to be the shitstain he is).

Best to just completely cut them off. I minimize my interactions with my father because it became cyclical after the divorce. I'd feel pity for him because he'd be living alone and living what seemed like a miserable existence, but then I'd hang around him for more than 5 minutes and I'd lose all pity in an instant as I'd start to remember why I hated him with every fiber of my being.

Some people just make their bed better to just let them lie in it.

Post: #152

(12-29-2017 10:32 AM)Speculation Wrote:  Just have less time for him; be busy. When I've started cutting out people like this, they get the message and even pretend that its 'their idea' that we don't have as much time for each other. They don't want a confrontation because you might tell them you don't like them to their face. Its still rejection and they'd rather pretend to be 'busy too' than risk that.

- Realistically, I only see him once every two or three weeks now. I can't cut him completely out, in that we have mutual financial investments due to my mothers estate that we're both financially-responsible for. Whilst I'd be happy to walk away from the money myself, I'm protecting my Sister's interests. Luckily, they should run their course in about three more years, but if this 'Bobbi' does come into the picture then de facto law could change all that.

That being sad, we're dealing with Gamma: I doubt there's a genuine romantic relationship happening, more likely a scared or mercenary woman looking for alternative arrangements.

- Despite how utterly-appalled I am, I am tasked, as a Christian, to forgive him. I'm understanding more and more over the last couple of years that that path is not an easy road to walk, but I can't be a hypocrite and stumble along the way.

That being sad, he doesn't have to be a large part of my life either.

What I am going to suggest, is that he gets regular grief counselling that I'll pay for. He gave me enough openings in that conversation to suggest it out of concern for him, and I can play on his manipulative nature by suggesting that the coping techniques he learns from the process could be very good if his friend Bobbi needs emotional help. If the ideas sound intelligent and he can gain social currency from them, he'll repeat them. I just have to hope that somewhere in the process he internalizes some of what he's being taught, and, if they're very good, they can start unpicking the Gamma.

I don't envy whomever works with him, but I think it would only work if it comes from a Female.

- I was thinking more about him using emotional vulnerability and it made me think of Gammas in General. I'm guessing a polite hug to them isn't a hug - it's a moment to be cynically-seized by them for quasi-sexual contact. Women have high social intelligence and they know when a hug is a hug and when it isn't. Note my girlfriend controlled her spacial situation the other day by not putting her body outside the door so as to not give my Stepdad a plausible-opportunity to hug her hello.

Thinking about this, I can see I rarely 'hug' in these kind of situations. It's not something I do casually, and in the sort of social situations where everyone is hugging, I'm always standing at the back and letting the huggers do their thing.

What happens: in highly-charged emotional situations, women throw themselves against me. I don't need to offer the hug: they're instinctively-drawn towards me. If you're a physically-strong, masculine man, you don't need to drape yourself all over them in return, or roam your hands wherever, or even offer a pat of comfort. They're happy enough feeling a hard chest under their cheek and sense a man's height towering over them and know that they're in the proximity of that strength. I might have mentioned it before as them 'feeling safe in your sphere'. My girl might be tucked up against me on the couch, but my arm would be along the top of the couch rather than clutching her close or roaming all over her at every opportunity, (at least until sexual escalation). Women cling, not men.

- I can easily see why weak progressive men get into so much trouble over claims of Sexual Harassment. Sneaky sneaky.

Post: #153

Well Bosch, you have also dished up another gamma tell:

When a woman needs to take a long hot shower at the thought of a gamma touching a cup she touched earlier.

Also, quick question. And this might be useful as a tell. Do you find that women in general instinctively recoil from gammas? Or do they tend to be taken in?

Or does it depend on the woman, as in, a good woman has their number, and the others, not so much?

Kind of like how your dog instinctively dislikes some people, or the gorillas at the zoo all start howling whenever certain people pass by?

Is it possible that we can leverage female intuition to bypass the time and energy it takes to ferret out the well concealed gamma?

Post: #154

(12-29-2017 03:42 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  Well Bosch, you have also dished up another gamma tell:

When a woman needs to take a long hot shower at the thought of a gamma touching a cup she touched earlier.

Also, quick question. And this might be useful as a tell. Do you find that women in general instinctively recoil from gammas? Or do they tend to be taken in?

Or does it depend on the woman, as in, a good woman has their number, and the others, not so much?

Kind of like how your dog instinctively dislikes some people, or the gorillas at the zoo all start howling whenever certain people pass by?

Is it possible that we can leverage female intuition to bypass the time and energy it takes to ferret out the well concealed gamma?

My girlfriend's dealing with a situation at work; one of my diagnostic questions was "Do you feel sexually repulsed by this guy?" I think women might hide the repulsion from themselves out of politeness (sort of how you might "not notice" that somebody on the street is wearing dirty clothes), but if they open their eyes for a moment they'll see it.

Wish I had some advice to offer. The endless, destructive rationalizations of these people is too much for me though. I was going to suggest a trip into the outback and a noose...

Post: #155

(12-29-2017 09:23 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  "You know your sister is hot right?"

"... and I want to poke your daughter." (She's 30, and I do). "Get to the point."

...

"...As hot as your sister?"

...

D'ya reckon your sister would marry me?"

Oh man. I can totally relate to this. Anytime something feels true, especially obviously true, and no one else seems to be talking about it, so usually something taboo, I just can't help but bring it up, especially when I feel I can get away with it.

Until I learned to control myself I nearly burned a bridge with a good black friend by constantly calling him "N..". To me(maybe as a non-American I can't appreciate why) there was no reason why I shouldn't be able to say the word, and because no one else was saying it made it feel really good to.

And if one of my friends' girlfriends are hot I just feel an irresistible urge to say how much I like them/think they're hot. The fact that no one else talks about this only makes me want to do it more.

Post: #156

(12-29-2017 04:47 PM)Aurini Wrote:  Wish I had some advice to offer. The endless, destructive rationalizations of these people is too much for me though. I was going to suggest a trip into the outback and a noose...

I see you've also crossed the Gamma Disgust Threshold, Davis. The advice from you I might need would be how do I continue to relate to him as a Christian.

Speculation made an interesting observation earlier about Vox Day having Gamma Traits, but that could just be more evidence that Sigma and Gamma are the extreme polarities of one type. I have noticed he often later brings up ideas that others have mentioned on his blog as his own further down the track, presenting them as his own observed thought without credit. Could that be a tell? Note my Stepfather functionally rewording my conversation with my sister about Quintus' translation work, or - a classic Gamma tell - thinking making reference to movies or quoting them outright functions as humour or a sign of higher intelligence. I'm out of touch with current pop culture, but the guy who is loudly-saying 'Oh behave!' like Austin Powers to a woman in a social situation is going to be your Gamma. (Or a Poof, which, once again suggests a link with identifying with the mother than the father).

In a way, they function like Samplers. They can't seem but help to capture and repeat the ideas of others. Where traditional sampling can be even as pathetic as saying "I like that drum loop, but if I go 'yo' on the fourth beat, then this is my own original creation," a Gamma just seems to say "I like that drum loop" and then rewrites reality in his head to genuinely-believe he created it. He'll try to sample the Alpha or what he mistakenly-believes is Alpha behaviour and humour but the playback will just sound off.

That's not saying they're not capable of original thought - remember, some can be insanely-talented in their particular sphere of knowledge. It's just the Gamma dysfunctions really start when they voice unpopular or obviously-wrong thought, so I suspect it's often safer for them to replay someone else's previously-observed, well-received thought.

It's curious Vox has never grown tired of kicking John Scalzi after all these years. Why no Gamma Disgust Threshold Response by now? Most likely, Vox understands he has an ongoing blog with a turnover in readership, so it's always useful to keep pointing out Gamma.

This did me in re: Scalzi, and I'd only been reading about him for a year or so. He ceased to be of further interest because once you cross that threshold, you feel dirty even observing them further, even to laugh at them. Staring into the abyss...



Note that it's not homophobia talking: it's the disgust of watching someone do stupid things that make them look creepy or clueless in the desperate hope of seeking even the slimmest chance of positive social reinforcement, such as my Stepfather's ongoing need to tell the Breastfeeding story.

My tell for Gamma on Social Media was always the Quizzical Eyebrow by what's become known a 'nu-male' or 'soyboy'. I'm guessing they think they come across as Sean Connery, but it's bordering on an autistic misunderstanding of facial cues.

Unsurprisingly:





I suspect this thing is also a sign of a son raised by a dominant female:

Do you feel the contempt in your gut? Now imagine studying one of those guys for a year. See how you'd eventually break?

Debeguiled: some of my earliest posts on the topic of Gamma were about the strong dislike women have for them, and the polite toleration / nice guy orbiting pattern you can usually observe with girls who try too hard to be 'nice'. It's how I immediately-recognised Gamma as valid from Vox's original posts. "Oh, boy do I know this." I'll find some links for you later today.

The thing with Gamma and Women: the resentment towards the Gamma builds over time, because of the their lack of respect for the man. When the women eventually-crosses the Gamma Disgust Threshold, you'll either see a huge meltdown by the girl, or the complete cutting off of all contact, as in the case of Hayley not answering the door for my stepfather. (When we were still teenagers, my sister used to turn off all the lights and appliances when her Gamma Orbiter would pull up in his car outside, and we'd lie on the hallway floor, away from all the windows until he left. The problem was, he'd wait out there for an hour or more sometimes, in the hope of seeing her. My sister: "Why won't he just leave?" Eventually, I just started talking to him and saying "She's not here," or "She's gone for the day."

That's another common Gamma Tell from a woman: "Why won't he just move on / leave me alone / stop hassling me / find someone else?"

My Theory: Gamma pushes a feminine women into the arms of an Alpha for protection from him.

The Gamma would say the Alpha's 'tricked' her and he 'doesn't deserve her.'

I used to say "She willingly chose him" to them, but I think probably what I should be saying is "She willingly chose him because he can beat you up if you don't stop pestering her."

Gamma is a form of slow mental harassment on a female. As Vox Day observed, they're natural stalkers.

I've mentioned before how they usually end up in relationships with older, masculinized women where the Gamma falls into a submissive role, because he'll always identify as a male feminist.

On the woman's part, they understand they have limited value to men as they've aged, and that might explain it, but I suspect that Women who 'settle' for a Gamma, (and I've observed it's always a frustrated sigh on entering into a relationship with one, rather than observable passion), are women whose psychological-makeup operates around a simmering hatred / annoyance with men, particularly when it comes to uselessness or weakness.

I suspect they choose a Gamma because they subconsciously know he'll consistently-disappoint them, thereby confirming their prejudices and letting them continue to feel victimized or let down by the male sex. They seem to have no problem publicly-belittling their man for his lack of capacity to be an adult in front of others, and the Gamma won't ever defend himself because she is always right. It's some kind of dysfunctional co-dependency.

-----------------

If anyone's wondering why I'd take in the son of a Gamma: he's repeatedly-said the phrases "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" when questioned as we've tried to get him into the Social Welfare system. He also thanked me for my help: "I would... never have known how to do all this."

As Vox has observed, Gammas already known everything, and their knowledge surpasses even experts in the field. Most won't thank you because you should obviously go out of your way for them anyway.

The Kid's a Dependable Delta, but, given he's blonde / blue-eyed, six foot five and slim, I'm sure a couple of years hanging around Bill and I will naturally bring him up to Beta.

------

Suits: I don't write much about Alpha or Beta because they strike me as fairly-self evident. Everyone knows what Alpha is. For Beta, read Vox's definition. They're the Alpha/s second/s-in-command. They do fairly well with women, (more so that Deltas), but they're just not the natural leaders or naturally-attract the hottest girls, though they can often punch above their weight class. Your average Rugby Team would be comprised of Alphas (who'll gradually transfer into coaching and organisational roles as they age), Betas and a number of Deltas, whom will dependably show up for each game, but they will never be star players or draw the spotlight. They'll probably be the first guys in the team to get married, particularly if they're targeted by woman around the team who can't bag the attention of a higher value mark.

Note that Betas can be Situational Alphas, but no Alpha will arise in a group of Deltas: their projects tend towards Negotiated and Agreed Upon Teamwork.

I've also suspected Gamma can function as the Situational Alpha to Omegas.

Note I would have originally said I was a Beta / Situational Alpha, but as I increasingly-understood Sigma, particularly its observable dysfunctions that I control, I can see I'm that. Betas are happy to be in the Alpha's presence, whereas I perform as Beta for Social Functionality, since I see everything as Game. When I'm hanging with those guys, I'd never have the kind of conversations I have on here. They get the simplified, two-dimensional Bosch. I'm not saying I think I'm better than then and don't like them for what they are, (though Alphas often annoy me for not thinking before they act), there's just no point confusing them with complexity.

In conversation, I can often think of the Sigma Responses to prick at the Alpha's pomposity, (an Alpha would never see it in himself), but I simply taught myself to temper the desire to act out and increase conflict for no obvious social gain. Sigma is there, I just keep him on a leash, whereas a conversation with Bill or my Sister, (a similarly-tempered Sigma), is like running around a summer paddock.

----

Comte: do you think your father's neuroticism - I recognise my mother in your statements - came from possessing a high intelligence, or was it trained into him from his parents? Hers, unfortunately, was a combination of both.

Post: #157

I might put him in the icebox for a while after that. I can't handle that sorta weakness around me. I especially didn't like how he's been doing this sorta shit for over 3 decades. Dafuqinmcfuckityfuckfuck?

Maybe not the best strategy, but whenever my own dad gets out of line, I ignore him for a long while. He usually comes back and stops acting like and idiot and we can talk again.

With someone like you step-dad; though, he probably isn't introspective enough to see how much of a weasel he is. I've got no clue how to handle that in a way that doesn't nuke your family.

Sorry, AB.

Post: #158

(12-29-2017 07:59 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  Comte: do you think your father's neuroticism - I recognise my mother in your statements - came from possessing a high intelligence, or was it trained into him from his parents? Hers, unfortunately, was a combination of both.

Unmistakably both as well. My grandmother is alive and kicking like the old poisonous crone she is and tried to imbue me with the same poison my father was imbued with. I'd like to believe I'm on the intelligent side and being close with her in my early childhood(when my parents were first married we lived with them) she still to this day believes she has the power to raise me in much the same way.

Clear high intelligence with a gamma upbringing drilled in is a deadly cocktail. I say gamma as well because a lot of things you see with your stepdad I see with my father quite clearly. Especially the rephrasing of things he's heard from me or others as his own words hell even things he hears or reads from religious people or texts(he is Muslim mind you). The former to sound intelligent(as aside from his work he was a dullard) and the latter to appear "wise".

I would always have these stubborn repetitive stories and faux morality drilled into my head almost daily about the same things from him. What was worse was that he would turn around and lie as well as do other immoral things of his own accord. Namely and especially gossiping like a woman. And to his mother(and sister) no less whom encouraged it. Usually about me and my brothers, my mother, extended family, and/or family friends. Also definitely at the same time interconnecting them if at all possible.

Though the nail in the coffin and the first thing that started most of my hate towards him when I was really young was definitely this(around late elementary early middle school). If I had confided in him and trusted him as son to father about something I needed advice about, even PC by our family standards stuff, I'd bet my ass I'd hear grandmother and aunty dearest guffawing like the crones they were in a corner about it at family get togethers much like they were about any "family drama". And the parroting of their haglike opinions by him whenever he could was without end(to the point he couldn't form any independent thoughts without their complete influence).

Post: #159

(12-29-2017 03:18 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  What I am going to suggest, is that he gets regular grief counselling that I'll pay for. He gave me enough openings in that conversation to suggest it out of concern for him, and I can play on his manipulative nature by suggesting that the coping techniques he learns from the process could be very good if his friend Bobbi needs emotional help. If the ideas sound intelligent and he can gain social currency from them, he'll repeat them. I just have to hope that somewhere in the process he internalizes some of what he's being taught, and, if they're very good, they can start unpicking the Gamma.

You're doing well if you can help him. Therapy is exactly where he needs to be, but his personality is only so malleable at his age. Once he's going I'd suggest guiding him towards investigating 'why does this always happen to me?' because the recurring themes of his relationships with women will stick out like dogs balls to a decent therapist. From what you've said he won't need much encouragement because he's already pity-baiting by vomiting 'why does this always happen?' out into his regular conversations. If you can stomach it you might dance around the edges of letting him think investigating why it keeps happening will help him get these women.

In reality even if he committed to therapy it would be years before someone like him has done the work to be ready for a healthy romantic relationship. That said, he might be able to recognise that what he's been doing isn't the way to go and stop doing it much sooner.

One last thing; every Australian can get 10 sessions with a psychologist on Medicare per year if you go through a GP.

Post: #160

(12-29-2017 10:35 PM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  Unmistakably both as well. My grandmother is alive and kicking like the old poisonous crone she is and tried to imbue me with the same poison my father was imbued with. I'd like to believe I'm on the intelligent side and being close with her in my early childhood(when my parents were first married we lived with them) she still to this day believes she has the power to raise me in much the same way.

Yeah, it's hard if she's still alive and trying to work on you.

The neurotic 'training' mine passed on to me was to needlessly worry about things that mightn't happen, ('you could get hit by a bus and everyone will see you're not wearing clean underwear'), and to catastrophize when things did (Yyour bloody nose isn't stopping bleeding. We'd better go to hospital in case you need a transfusion!). CBT, a harsher life and active vigilance against those behavioural patterns snapped me out of both of those mental sinks before my teens were over.

But every now and then, I'll be doing something - such as moving sheets of tin from the long glass the other day - and I'll hear her voice. "Don't play with that old tin. You could cut yourself and end up with tetanus. You'll linger for weeks in hospital then DIE." Meanwhile, Dad was spending his weekends juggling chainsaws on a motorcross bike on a surfboard that heading into the mouth of a shark that was on fire, and she didn't say boo to him.

Keep an eye out for what they're trying to do with you, mate, and actively-fight the programming. I know it's shit, but you can't choose your family. All you can really do as you age is insulate yourself, to a degree.

Post: #161

(12-29-2017 11:33 PM)Speculation Wrote:  

(12-29-2017 03:18 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  What I am going to suggest, is that he gets regular grief counselling that I'll pay for. He gave me enough openings in that conversation to suggest it out of concern for him, and I can play on his manipulative nature by suggesting that the coping techniques he learns from the process could be very good if his friend Bobbi needs emotional help. If the ideas sound intelligent and he can gain social currency from them, he'll repeat them. I just have to hope that somewhere in the process he internalizes some of what he's being taught, and, if they're very good, they can start unpicking the Gamma.

You're doing well if you can help him. Therapy is exactly where he needs to be, but his personality is only so malleable at his age. Once he's going I'd suggest guiding him towards investigating 'why does this always happen to me?' because the recurring themes of his relationships with women will stick out like dogs balls to a decent therapist. From what you've said he won't need much encouragement because he's already pity-baiting by vomiting 'why does this always happen?' out into his regular conversations. If you can stomach it you might dance around the edges of letting him think investigating why it keeps happening will help him get these women.

In reality even if he committed to therapy it would be years before someone like him has done the work to be ready for a healthy romantic relationship. That said, he might be able to recognise that what he's been doing isn't the way to go and stop doing it much sooner.

One last thing; every Australian can get 10 sessions with a psychologist on Medicare per year if you go through a GP.

Sure but the quality is socialised. These cunts can do just as much harm as good.

Post: #162

(12-29-2017 11:33 PM)Speculation Wrote:  In reality even if he committed to therapy it would be years before someone like him has done the work to be ready for a healthy romantic relationship. That said, he might be able to recognise that what he's been doing isn't the way to go and stop doing it much sooner.

Yeah, I know the chance is slim, at best. To my thinking the only two effective options would be for:

a) a woman's husband to beat the ever-lovin' crap out of him;

b) a woman to file a workplace sexual harassment suit against him.

Vox Day and I would both agree that Gamma needs to be smacked out if its delusional complacency to gain a genuine perspective of their own behaviour.

Post: #163

AB: thank you for broaching the Quizzical Eyebrow -- I've noticed this forever yet for some reason hadn't solidified it into a Thing Mentionable By Name.

"Coy" and "sass" can be irritating in a woman, but seeing a guy attempt to cop those vibes, even in a momentary pose, is absolutely disgusting.

It's like they realize certain men (like Prince, or "classic black pimps") can have so much heterosexuality flowing through them that they can "afford" to max out girly details, "avant-garde" tailoring, grooming, etc.

Quizzically-Eyebrowing Gammas must internally feel similarly.

(12-29-2017 07:59 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  My tell for Gamma on Social Media was always the Quizzical Eyebrow by what's become known a 'nu-male' or 'soyboy'. I'm guessing they think they come across as Sean Connery, but it's bordering on an autistic misunderstanding of facial cues.

Unsurprisingly:

Post: #164

Yes, these behaviors are awful. However... What's so bad about movie quotes and funny character voices?

Post: #165

This thread has provided ample food for thought over the past months. I think I'm ready to start laying out just what those thoughts are.

First, I'm arriving at a useful definition of Sigma. Though I've found the term interesting since I first stumbled upon Vox Day's hierarchy, it's one I've avoided using; oh, sure, I'm pretty classically Sigma, but just saying that becomes self-congratulation. An excuse to stay in a rut; a label to avoid self-improvement.

So although I've acknowledged the label, it's not critical enough. I needed something more insulting - and I think I've got it.

There are two defining traits of the Sigma: an utter disregard for social conventions, and a pathological need to argue.

When I put it like that, it doesn't sound so cool, now does it?

While both of these are potential strengths - aloofness and a refined sense of logic - they can also be extremely hampering. One of my great challenges in life is that I've never cared about status games. Not only does this prevent me from participating successfully in large organizations. The politics of an office place utterly bore me, even the politics of the "YouTube Community" are just too petty for me to care about... even though I should. Social status is a form of capital, and I don't accrue enough of it.

Heck, even money: the main motivation for accruing money is to display your social status, and that's yet another thing I don't care about. I drive a 20 year old car that I absolutely love, and I have no interest in any of the new ones. Brand name clothing for the sake of the brand name irritates me. I've never been as motivated to accrue finance as my peers, to the point of my own detriment.

Now, for the argumentative nature: I get profoundly irritated when people are wrong about something. That's why I started writing in the first place - idiotic platitudes being decreed as if they were informed wisdom. Now, that said - here's an important observation on strategy:

Quote:1. Experience trumps wits. Some idiot who’s simply spent more time playing the game will beat you when you’re new, no matter how fast and clever you think you are. You might think you’re smart, but it’s not as much an advantage as you think if you haven’t put in the time and effort.

Coasting on raw ability alone fails miserably in a contest that relies on learned skills. An ordinary guy who knows an optimal build order to execute a sound strategy will destroy a genius who’s trying to figure everything out for the first time.

This is why there’s plenty of average joes doing well in life while everyone knows that “smart” guy who’s losing at life.

Sure, I'm smarter than everyone - but if they're following a decent Plan B with consistency, while I'm constantly picking up new games and never mastering them, who's going to go further in life?

Furthermore, I'm pretty difficult to get along with. I have absolutely zero tolerance for bullshit, and I'll call people out on it all the time. I can be downright insulting with this - mind you, if you can listen to my advice, it's probably the most useful critique you'll have all year - but nobody likes being criticized.

The one saving grace, is that when someone calls me on my bullshit, I admit it; again, I don't care about social status, so if I'm proven wrong I can admit it with a laugh, which itself might annoy the person even more, if they were trying to win points against me...

My greatest strengths are also my greatest weaknesses.

So let's contrast this with Alphas and Betas. Betas are too concerned about the status game to overtly pursue truth. They might privately admit that I'm right about something - but until the group as a whole accepts it, they'll stand on the sidelines, letting me fight my own battle. Alphas, meanwhile, are so exclusively focused on the status game - and they win it so consistently - that objective truth has very little relevance to them. They embrace it to the point where it's necessary - but society allows them to get away with so much bad behaviour, why would they bother reconsidering it? Why would they use objective truth to hamper themselves when they're already winning?

I honestly worry about Alphas sometimes; it's comparable to the child of wealth who fails to understand the struggle of the poor.

All of this helps explain the extreme disgust that the Sigma feels for the Gamma. The Gamma pretends to be aloof - but is utterly enslaved to social approval, even more so than the simpiest of Betas. He pretends to be logical - but he only uses that logic to rationalize, stumbling upon strategies that undermine his long-term objective.

WHAT FRICKING GOOD ARE YOU GAMMA??? You only survive because most people assume you're better than you are; they attribute nobility and reason that doesn't exist, overlooking your incredible folly and allowing you to continue existing.

Take the following story:



This is the Gamma in a nutshell. In reality he's just a bear, stumbling around and shitting on the rug. But nobody believes he's a bear. After all, how could a bear possibly be getting knighted by the Queen? Rather than admit that there's a wild animal in their midst, everyone just goes along to get along. The Alpha might have him figured out - but the Alpha's got two princesses sitting on his lap, so why bother arguing about the fucking bear?

Then the Sigma comes along - HE'S A FUCKING BEAR YOU LUNATICS! HE'S EATING A BEEHIVE RIGHT NOW AND HE SMELLS MUSKY! At which point the Alpha dismisses us, and apologizes to Sir Bearington.

A Sigma expresses concern about you by criticizing you; it's a sign that he thinks you're worth his time as an individual. If you do this to a Gamma - either he takes your advice, and then applies it backwards (EG: overcoming last-minute-resistance vs being a rapey creep), or he takes it as a mortal insult and declares war on you.

The Gamma cannot be reasoned with. Hold up a shotgun and say "Get off my lawn!" and he'll view it as a status game; advancing on you, thus forcing you to pull the trigger - when all you wanted him to do was to leave you alone.

At first blush the Gamma can appear Sigma - in that his incompetence can be mistaken for aloofness, and his argumentative, dilletante nature can be mistaken for intellectual curiosity - but he quickly proves himself to be a pariah dog, latching onto you, and undermining everything you're trying to accomplish.

So: how to deal with them? I don't think a Sigma can. Thus the question: how would an Alpha deal with him?

The Alpha gives him a pat on the head, telling him how awesome his delusion is, and encouraging him to stumble off in some other direction. This strikes me as an anathema - that's what I'd do to somebody I truly hated. Somebody I wanted to suffer pain every day of their life. Me - being the honest and loving person I am - I just want to give the Gamma a quick and (mostly) painless death.

But that seems to be the optimal strategy.

Pat them on the head - laugh at them behind your mask - and encourage them to go creep out some girls so that they'll run into your arms for comfort.

I don't know if this is the morally right thing to do; but it's certainly more strategically sound than trying to help these creeps.

Post: #166

(12-29-2017 07:59 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  I see you've also crossed the Gamma Disgust Threshold, Davis. The advice from you I might need would be how do I continue to relate to him as a Christian.

This one is actually easier than you think. The bible says to love our neighbor as ourselves, not humor gammas.

Think of yourself. How would you like to be treated if you were totally in denial, totally out to lunch, and taking it out on others?

You might hope someone would call you on it, or at least not pretend to agree with it just to make their life easier.

Obviously this wouldn't work on the gamma, but you are to love your neighbor as yourself, not at the expense of yourself, and if you bend over backwards too far to humor a gamma, you are failing to love yourself.

Sometimes compassion means not giving people what they want, so, I think your best bet would be to do to him what you would want done to you, the caveat being that you do it in an extremely compassionate way, just kind of floating the reality out there for them every now and then, and then letting it go if they don't pick up on it.

It would amount to a very gentle, compassionate setting of boundaries, not every time, they would freak out, but every now and then, for yourself.

Like if the dude is repeating what you just said as if he is telling you how things are (gamma TM), you could say something like, in a breezy carefree voice, "Funny, I think that is what I said just a second ago. Anyway, anyone want some more beer?"

I think this would help with the gamma disgust, because you would be blowing off steam by speaking truth to gamma every now and then, and it wouldn't build up to a disgust breaking point.

Now, obviously, they will never, in the moment, admit you are right or anything like that, although you can be sure they are registering what has been said, and maybe it will slow them down in the future.

Maybe not, but if you haven't figured it out yet, what I am talking about here is the other side of Christianity, the loving yourself part.

Don't feel like love means never having to tell the truth around a gamma.

For a gamma, as well as all other psychic vampires, negative emotions are like a hot potato, that is unpleasant to hold, so they toss it over to you.

Nothing wrong with tossing it back with an insouciant smile, and getting on with things.

Post: #167

So what's the difference between Sigma and Gamma? I've found a lot about Gammas on the net, but not so much on how the Sigma improves upon the gamma's deficiencies.

Post: #168

Quote:Take the following story

I'm enjoying this, but, ahem, a Dungeons and Dragons greentext story used to explain a socio-sexual type repulsive to women...



I hate to say it: this thread seems like it might be Gamma!

Post: #169

(12-30-2017 02:39 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Quote:Take the following story

I'm enjoying this, but, ahem, a Dungeons and Dragons greentext story used to explain a socio-sexual type repulsive to women...



I hate to say it: this thread seems like it might be Gamma!

I really don't think think you should be talking.

Twat.

Post: #170

I'm pressed for time, but I'll write more later, but just wanted to comment on this.

(12-30-2017 12:29 PM)Aurini Wrote:  The Gamma cannot be reasoned with. Hold up a shotgun and say "Get off my lawn!" and he'll view it as a status game; advancing on you, thus forcing you to pull the trigger - when all you wanted him to do was to leave you alone.

It depends on how the Gamma feels in relation to you:

His first instinct would be to back down, pointing out to the neighbours watching how unreasonable it is that you're confronting him with a shotgun, because it would be obvious to everyone that he was only joking, not deliberately-provoking you. This is painful to watch if it's a girl pulling the shotgun on her Gamma Stalker, because, even then, he'll deny there's a shotgun. She's not the kind of girl who would fire a shotgun, and especially not at him.

If you'd deeply-triggered the Gamma and he's in Burn It All Down mode: he'd advance towards you, hoping to get shot, even if he got killed in the process, because then you'd go to jail.

That's how dangerous they are. This is why it's important to recognise them for what they are.

Post: #171

(12-30-2017 03:10 PM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

(12-30-2017 02:39 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Quote:Take the following story

I'm enjoying this, but, ahem, a Dungeons and Dragons greentext story used to explain a socio-sexual type repulsive to women...



I hate to say it: this thread seems like it might be Gamma!

I really don't think think you should be talking.

Twat.

Woah, let's keep it civil. Rex was just making a joke, I'm sure he's aware that he has displayed gamma/omega tendencies in the past.

Gammas often don't know when to give up on a joke/fight/discussion/anything. I remember when I was on a school trip a gamma nudged me once whilst I was writing something down, causing the pen to slip. I knew he was a cunt at the time, but didn't want trouble so just playfully punched him back and said something along the lines of 'watch out, I'll get you back sometime'.

The cunt then does the same thing again 10 seconds later, and everyone else around the table sees it. He's got his audience.
'If you want to touch a man, I'm sure we can get you a rent boy for the night'
Laughter from around the table at my joke (I'd already thought it up- I just knew the weasel would nudge me again).
The gamma sees that he's being laughed at- this is hard for gammas to process, as it doesn't fit in with how they seem themselves. This must be changed.
'You'd know how to get one (a rent boy) clearly'
No laughter. I'll be honest, it's a decent come back. If an Alpha had used it, the room would have laughed at me. But everyone despises this fucker, so it stays quiet.
'No-one's laughing mate'
'Yeah whatever'

I start writing again, normality returns. Although he doesn't show it, I now know the gamma would be seething after that. Which now explains why when he gets up, he 'accidentally' bumps the back of my head with his elbow. He literally will not give in until it looks like he's had the last say.

I see red. Any man with a drop of testosterone knows what I'm talking about. It's not anger at the pain (it didn't particularly hurt), it's this cunt pissing me off again. I jump out of my chair which goes flying, and turn towards him but he scampers out of the room. I suddenly felt very hot and flustered, but didn't want to show this to the others so I simply said 'fucking hell', and the rest of us started chatting and working again.

They are snide fuckers. They will always try to one-up you. The guy I wrote about just now hated me for years after that. Still does I suspect, not that I've seen him for a while.

Post: #172

(12-30-2017 04:59 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  If you'd deeply-triggered the Gamma and he's in Burn It All Down mode: he'd advance towards you, hoping to get shot, even if he got killed in the process, because then you'd go to jail.

Just for completeness' sake: the reward of you going to jail is that he's proven right. It's not your suffering that he wants - i.e. "You killed my children, I want you to die horribly, even if I go to jail for it." It's the social proof that you were always an evil murderer, and he was just a brave victim.

*Ahem*

You bring up a good point; I may be equating Gammas in general with my Gamma. My Gamma would recoil at the name "Jesus Christ" - I once joked that you could kill him by putting three billboards up on his drive to work: nothing but the words "Roosh V", "Donald Trump", and "Jesus Christ".

He Gamma'd about being Darth Hideous, Lord of All Scat and Tranny Porn; your stepdad Gammas about being a high-Delta with a manly husband hobby.

The latter is still frustrating - and the sneakiness is disgusting - but it's innocuous on it's own. Far easier to love and forgive somebody like that... but how do you tell him the truth without sticking your neck out and wounding his Gamma pride?

Post: #173

(12-30-2017 05:36 PM)britchard Wrote:  I see red. Any man with a drop of testosterone knows what I'm talking about. It's not anger at the pain (it didn't particularly hurt), it's this cunt pissing me off again. I jump out of my chair which goes flying

Try the decaf mate.

Post: #174

(12-30-2017 07:00 PM)Cane Toad Wrote:  

(12-30-2017 05:36 PM)britchard Wrote:  I see red. Any man with a drop of testosterone knows what I'm talking about. It's not anger at the pain (it didn't particularly hurt), it's this cunt pissing me off again. I jump out of my chair which goes flying

Try the decaf mate.

I would have bounced his head off of the wall for those shenanigans. And I'm like a rug on valium.

Post: #175

(12-30-2017 06:20 PM)Aurini Wrote:  Just for completeness' sake: the reward of you going to jail is that he's proven right. It's not your suffering that he wants - i.e. "You killed my children, I want you to die horribly, even if I go to jail for it." It's the social proof that you were always an evil murderer, and he was just a brave victim.

Exactly. They think they're destroying you and raising their own status at the same time, but, because they're acting irrationally, they don't see they're destroying themselves as well.

Quote:Far easier to love and forgive somebody like that... but how do you tell him the truth without sticking your neck out and wounding his Gamma pride?

They're incapable of hearing the truth. Here's a page from my old school diary with the names in question removed where my teenage gamma friend was being let down gently-but-firmly. Note "That's the way it's going to be for ever - just friends." She isn't giving him false hope.

He immediately corrected it and sent it back to her. This obviously pushed all the girls in the class past the Gamma Disgust Threshold, and they spent PAGES telling him exactly what they thought of him. I cringe even now when I read it and it's 31 years later. This is back when I thought everyone could be helped.



Any girls reading: it's pointless telling a gamma you want to be 'just friends'. He will never accept it. Get your friends together, or, better yet, some physically strong men, and sit him down in their presence and tell him that you're not interested and don't want to be friends any more. Otherwise, it can be years of harassment.

I'll see if I can find his resulting meltdown. It's very psychologically-telling.