Post: #51

(07-12-2017 02:57 PM)FFL Wrote:  A million other places way better for ONS with quality (in appearance) girls. Honestly if you're in good shape and want to have easy ONS with hot girls you're better off spitting game in the West to hot girls with no moral compass.

Hot, feminine, and sweet typically does not go hand and hand with easy, retarded and impulsive.

I'm confused, so are there hot girls in the West or not (compared to Kiev)?
The first statement says yes, the second says no.

If yes, name these places that compare in quality/quantity to that which is found in Kiev.

Post: #52

(07-13-2017 08:15 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:  Great honest report.

Although Forsage get's a bad rep on here it's still a place where ONS are possible but I was baffled your observation by the girls being on par with CHI.

Forsage is usually 5-7's with a odd 8 mixed.

Forsage was a nightmare. 80 % -90% were Turks and arabs and the girls were much uglier than i other places.

Post: #53

NomadofEU there is no contradiction in what FFL said. He never said that western girls are on average more attractive than Ukrainian girls. Of course every country including Western ones will have at least some hot girls.

He is simply was making the point that in the West when you do find a hot girl she is more likely to be a slut than a girl of equivalent looks in the Ukraine. In other words if you meet an 8 in U.S.A. she is more likely to be a slut and put out on the first night then if you meet a Ukrainian 8 when you are in Ukraine.

Therefore if you want a one night stand with an 8 you have a better chance in U.S.A. Why is that so difficult and confusing for you to understand?

Post: #54

No.

(07-12-2017 02:57 PM)FFL Wrote:  A million other places way better for ONS with quality (in appearance) girls. Honestly if you're in good shape and want to have easy ONS with hot girls you're better off spitting game in the West to hot girls with no moral compass.

I want to know where this place in the west is.

Post: #55

^^
Barcelona
Stockholm
New York
Greek Islands
Paris
Ibiza

I agree with FFL, some young, tall and good looking dude without russian skills will fare fairly better in any of the above locations. A more average guy might do better in Ukraine.

Post: #56

You forgot Toronto^^

Post: #57

Really nice data sheet by OP. Got me curious as to look into the place. Met a fellow canadian who was touring Brasov and was going there in a three to four days time. Unfortunately, the poor fellow contracted a foot infection for which the trip got delayed and he had to spend more time in Brasov to heal himself before going there.

I asked him about Ukraine. The feedback was quite negative from him. Mostly he complained about the unstable political nature of Ukraine and the hatred they have for anyone not sympathising with the war. Said that ukraine is still under soviet russia's mentality and hasn't been able to cast off that skin and couldn't so easily. He went to state that if you are to talk about anything you should clearly bypass the topic of the conflict. Act as if you are hearing it for the first time. If the opinion doesn't go for them you would mostly likely be paraded as a fool and your opinions snickered at. Mostly a keep to yourself ind of advice. The guy was in late 40s I would say, But I was never a good judge of age.

We also discussed about ethnic tensions in Ukraine. If you are not a white caucasian male you really get singled out and do not get a friendly treatment. I don't suppose eastern europe to be an open society as the west but really racism kind of freaks me out.

Can an expert validate this ?

(07-12-2017 04:15 AM)Themin Wrote:  my personal preference? line up dates for day 1 online first. Start chatting a week or 2 in advance, get to know the girl/s.... establish some rapport, speak on viber, video chat even... send flowers blind like that!!! Worked for me in the past, they love it. One date, brought me a cake at the restaurant to thank me for the roses i sent her IN ADVANCE of meeting her first time. Now, we are talking older targets (but still super fucking hot!!!) 25-33 so more mature, but obviously these things impress them a lot. Another one, got the bang on date 2, and she was WILD.

So you got the flowers sent to her home ? You got her address online ?

Post: #58

(07-20-2017 09:35 AM)Xen Wrote:  Really nice data sheet by OP. Got me curious as to look into the place. Met a fellow canadian who was touring Brasov and was going there in a three to four days time. Unfortunately, the poor fellow contracted a foot infection for which the trip got delayed and he had to spend more time in Brasov to heal himself before going there.

I asked him about Ukraine. The feedback was quite negative from him. Mostly he complained about the unstable political nature of Ukraine and the hatred they have for anyone not sympathising with the war. Said that ukraine is still under soviet russia's mentality and hasn't been able to cast off that skin and couldn't so easily. He went to state that if you are to talk about anything you should clearly bypass the topic of the conflict. Act as if you are hearing it for the first time. If the opinion doesn't go for them you would mostly likely be paraded as a fool and your opinions snickered at. Mostly a keep to yourself ind of advice. The guy was in late 40s I would say, But I was never a good judge of age.

We also discussed about ethnic tensions in Ukraine. If you are not a white caucasian male you really get singled out and do not get a friendly treatment. I don't suppose eastern europe to be an open society as the west but really racism kind of freaks me out.

Can an expert validate this ?

(07-12-2017 04:15 AM)Themin Wrote:  my personal preference? line up dates for day 1 online first. Start chatting a week or 2 in advance, get to know the girl/s.... establish some rapport, speak on viber, video chat even... send flowers blind like that!!! Worked for me in the past, they love it. One date, brought me a cake at the restaurant to thank me for the roses i sent her IN ADVANCE of meeting her first time. Now, we are talking older targets (but still super fucking hot!!!) 25-33 so more mature, but obviously these things impress them a lot. Another one, got the bang on date 2, and she was WILD.

So you got the flowers sent to her home ? You got her address online ?

I don't know why your friend would complain about the unstable politics in Ukraine as I assume he is just a tourist and none of this affects him. Could be that he is making excuses for his failures in the country.

Most people don't want to talk politics, especially the women, they are too busy getting on with their lives and doing the best for themselves.

Ukraine is full of sex tourists mostly from Turkey, North Africa, and the Middle East. And yes many girls have a bad reaction to these guys, not because of racism as you imply, but because they are notorious whoremongers who harass the women

Post: #59

(07-20-2017 09:35 AM)Xen Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 04:15 AM)Themin Wrote:  my personal preference? line up dates for day 1 online first. Start chatting a week or 2 in advance, get to know the girl/s.... establish some rapport, speak on viber, video chat even... send flowers blind like that!!! Worked for me in the past, they love it. One date, brought me a cake at the restaurant to thank me for the roses i sent her IN ADVANCE of meeting her first time. Now, we are talking older targets (but still super fucking hot!!!) 25-33 so more mature, but obviously these things impress them a lot. Another one, got the bang on date 2, and she was WILD.

So you got the flowers sent to her home ? You got her address online ?

i did this twice actually for different dates. both times we had been chatting for a while, they both gave me their work addresses

Post: #60

and how's tinder game? what are the resources you guys use for online gaming in advance?

Post: #61

(07-21-2017 02:17 AM)Themin Wrote:  

(07-20-2017 09:35 AM)Xen Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 04:15 AM)Themin Wrote:  my personal preference? line up dates for day 1 online first. Start chatting a week or 2 in advance, get to know the girl/s.... establish some rapport, speak on viber, video chat even... send flowers blind like that!!! Worked for me in the past, they love it. One date, brought me a cake at the restaurant to thank me for the roses i sent her IN ADVANCE of meeting her first time. Now, we are talking older targets (but still super fucking hot!!!) 25-33 so more mature, but obviously these things impress them a lot. Another one, got the bang on date 2, and she was WILD.

So you got the flowers sent to her home ? You got her address online ?

i did this twice actually for different dates. both times we had been chatting for a while, they both gave me their work addresses

I would never doubt that this tactic does not work. Ukrainian girls love flowers and other little gifts like sweets. However the main reason why I would never do this is the fact that Ukrainian girls have an amazing talent to look great on pictures. In my experience you need to deduct at least one point in quality in real life compared to their photos. So a 8 on pictures would end up being a 7 and in many cases even worse. It gets especially problematic when the girls have acne skin which is quite common here actually. You even can't fully avoid this by video chatting before.

I remember many dates which I had to cut short because I was expecting a model showing up but then in real life she was just average for Ukrainian standards. Having said that will meet a girl from IG for afterwork drinks today who looks like an 8.5 on IG but I would not be surprised if she ends up being a 7.

A second reason why I would be careful with sending flowers in advance is the fact that it will awake her gold digging genes. And she might starting seeing you as a provider who she can take for a ride while you are here.

Just my two cents but as I said at the beginning I am sure this tactic works great.

Post: #62

dont disagree at all but my target as mentioned before is girls who most guys here consider older In both cases these were girls with sound jobs and just looking for love
agree also with the picture thing, but video chat rarely lies
once i went to meet a solid 8-9 from tinder match in gulliver, it was a total case of even 2 points above real life scenario!!! In fact she was the classic gold digger with model pics... VERY dominant and i remember it was a friday afternoon, she wanted to sort her weekend evenings... she was "screening" tinder matches one by one in real life it was sooo funny... took me all of 5 minutes chatting to find out her real age, she had a kid too, likely her sponsor dumped her for a younger model... she started saying i was the right "candidate" she liked my style and face etc... then she started planning MY evening... she wanted to be brought out to Avalon (ahahahhahaah yeah keep dreaming love) etc etc.... I was like look I'm busy tonight, tomorrow, and forever for girls like you ahahahhaa and ejected

Post: #63

Superschalk it sounds like you have become spoiled in Ukraine and forgotten how bad the west is. You are complaining about meeting girls that are "only a 7" who looked like an 8.5 online. Do you know how hard it is for most guys in the west to get a date with a 7!! Not to mention in the west, if you do manage to meet a 7 she will often have the attitude and sense of entitlement that you would expect from a famous supermodel.

Post: #64

(07-21-2017 09:19 AM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  Superschalk it sounds like you have become spoiled in Ukraine and forgotten how bad the west is. You are complaining about meeting girls that are "only a 7" who looked like an 8.5 online. Do you know how hard it is for most guys in the west to get a date with a 7!! Not to mention in the west, if you do manage to meet a 7 she will often have the attitude and sense of entitlement that you would expect from a famous supermodel.

Hey Australia Sucks!

Yes you are absolutely right I became very spoiled here. But talking to forum members and other guys who live here long term or come a long term basis many of them say the same.

The first time I came for a longer stint (three months) to Ukraine was in 2015. Back than I did not bother too much. All I wanted was notches with decent looking girls. I focused on the western groupie niche. These girls are usually in the 5-7 range and you can bang them fairly quick and easy. In this three months I banged one girl on average a week. While for some members here this is not a high number for me it was amazing. However with every new bang I felt a bit more unsatisfied on how average these girls were compared to the ones you especially see in places like Avalon, Chi, Dali Park.

Last year I came back to Kiev and also went to Odessa (which did not work out for me at all but this is a different story) for a longer period. In total I was there four months. In this four months I purely focused on quality rather than quantity. I ended up banging only three girls. But all of these three girls were 8s, and one could be even considered a 8.5. While the year before the bangs with the western groupies were mostly only ONS this time I saw these girls on a regular basis. Despite I only slept with three girls I felt much more satisfied than the year before.

This year I will do exactly the same. I rather have quality girls and not this huge quantity of 6s and 7s. I am currently working on a 29 year old who used to be a semi famous Russian pop singer a few years back. She looks like a porn star. If I am able to bang her hopefully next week it will mean a lot more to me than banging ten different 7s in one week. However with these kind of girls you need to be careful because they know there value. If you not able to bang after four dates you still need to next them.

What you also need to understand that going on dates drains a lot of your energy. The conversations are always the same, you might end up on a long walk in the heat and with a kiss on your cheek bone in case it is the firsts date.
I know how this sounds ridiculously stupid for someone in the west but this how things are here.

My final goal is to find a potential wife here in Ukraine. But the longer I come here the more I see this as something impossible because you would keep always looking for an upgrade.

It is the same if you like cars. If you drive a Porsche you are still maybe not satisfied and still want to upgrade to a Ferrari.

I know I became spoiled here and this is why myself and so many other guys I met here keep coming back. Ukraine is like an addiction.

Post: #65

You poor man, it must be very draining going on dates with all those different 8s!! Seriously though, I really got to get my ass over to Ukraine one day. Props for living the dream.

Post: #66

Three 8's in four months would not be enough for me, and I would have to downgrade to some lesser quality, unless at least a couple of these girls were regulars.

Quote:My final goal is to find a potential wife here in Ukraine. But the longer I come here the more I see this as something impossible because you would keep always looking for an upgrade.

Not only that, but finding a Ukrainian girl you can connect with is very difficult, even more so if you do not speak the language.

Quote:What you also need to understand that going on dates drains a lot of your energy. The conversations are always the same, you might end up on a long walk in the heat and with a kiss on your cheek bone in case it is the firsts date.
I know how this sounds ridiculously stupid for someone in the west but this how things are here.

Yes when people first come here they are amazed how easy it is to get a girl to come on a date with you, but after a while the novelty wears off when you discover many girls have zero personality or are just looking for a free lunch. Time can be better spend doing something else

Post: #67

(07-23-2017 07:10 AM)BangBoy123 Wrote:  

Quote:What you also need to understand that going on dates drains a lot of your energy. The conversations are always the same, you might end up on a long walk in the heat and with a kiss on your cheek bone in case it is the firsts date.
I know how this sounds ridiculously stupid for someone in the west but this how things are here.

Yes when people first come here they are amazed how easy it is to get a girl to come on a date with you, but after a while the novelty wears off when you discover many girls have zero personality or are just looking for a free lunch. Time can be better spend doing something else

Yes you are spot on. When I came here in 2015 i went on up to three dates each day. Now I do a maximum of three dates per week.

Going on a first date is not as a big deal here as it is in the West. This is also why some girls react strange if you start kinoing them on a first meet.

As for the point with the wife. You are right it is difficult to find the right connection with the girls here. I found that I had the best connections with the girls who spent extensive time in the west. Those are also usually the ones who are easier to bang because they know how these things work in the west. Unfortunately these girls are usually not the hottest ones.

Post: #68

Superschalk whats your view on village girls in Ukraine? When a man is ready to settle down (assuming the guy speaks fluent Russian or Ukrainian) do you think hanging around some Ukrainian villages to find a virginal 18 year old (who is a 9) to marry is a viable strategy?

I have always had a romantic fantasy that if I ever get married one day it will be with an innocent village girl who can cook well and knows how to grow her own vegetables and raise children. Is that beta?

Post: #69

(07-23-2017 09:40 AM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  Superschalk whats your view on village girls in Ukraine? When a man is ready to settle down (assuming the guy speaks fluent Russian or Ukrainian) do you think hanging around some Ukrainian villages to find a virginal 18 year old (who is a 9) to marry is a viable strategy?

I have always had a romantic fantasy that if I ever get married one day it will be with an innocent village girl who can cook well and knows how to grow her own vegetables and raise children. Is that beta?

I think to get married with this innocent hot village girl is a fantasy many guys here on this forum have including myself.

However I believe these innocent village girls do not exist anymore. The reason for this are smartphones and Instagram.

I was just spam messaging some girls on IG today from Brovary which is a 100000 people town roughly one hour east side of Kiev because I want to make a day trip there to check this town out.

Found a super hot 18 year old girl with 15000 followers. So if this girl gets the attention from 15k horny guys who follow her because she has a few hot bikini and gym pics on her account you can imagine that these innocent hot girls are a thing of the past. It does not matter if they live in a village or in a huge city.

This topic is also discussed in Travesty's thread about finding about wife abroad. And the question is in case these innocent girls still exist and you find her. Can you really connect with her on an emotional level? And what are you doing with her? You bring her to the west where thousand of hungry guys will hit on her or would you move to the village and enjoy live in an industrial shithole or on a farm somewhere in the middle of nowhere?

Post: #70

(07-12-2017 08:12 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 07:32 AM)apolis Wrote:  I think only Rocha gets ONS from clubs in Kiev, as far as I remember.

I think it's meaningless for anyone who can't spend at least one month in Kiev to waste his money and time to kiss 'beauties' and end up masturbating every night.

I also disagree with your last part. Sure that at the end of the day the bang is what matters, but having intimacy, kissing, having a good time with a hot woman, and by this I mean a 8 plus, personally I found that it is what builds your confidence, makes you more experienced and comfortable around any woman, and it is the kind of thing that takes you to some steps above regarding your game. Nothing beats real life experience with women.

Yes, yes, that right there is what I agree with 100%. I am in my mid 30s now, had countless bangs - of varying quality - in my 20s and while I love bangs and it is the final goal, at the end of the day I just love going on dates with hot women, making out with hot women, courting hot women and just having a good time.
It gives me confidence and helps me build character. As a matter of fact, it is now far easier for me to game in my home country, Germany, because of the confidence boost I received while gaming in Kiev.

Post: #71

(07-23-2017 03:18 AM)superschalk Wrote:  My final goal is to find a potential wife here in Ukraine. But the longer I come here the more I see this as something impossible because you would keep always looking for an upgrade.

It is the same if you like cars. If you drive a Porsche you are still maybe not satisfied and still want to upgrade to a Ferrari.

I have to second this as well. Actually this is what kind of hindered my recent 10 day trip to Ukraine as well (plus shortly reverting to Beta on a 9, but different story...).
No matter how good looking a girl is or how great a date is going, there is always someone prettier, stylisher, younger or more fun around. Like wonderer, I also had a ridiculous high number of first dates, only 2 second dates and only 1 third date, as I was always looking to upgrade and never content with what I had.

I was hoping that with more and longer visits this "problem" would start to vanish, but if I am reading superschalks post right, it might never go away...

But then again, right now, I am totally fine with this kind of "problem". And as with wonderers report, I had the time of my life there. I might drop a datasheet on my own soon, as I might be able to add some valuable information on more hip ((sex tourist) free) locations in Kiev, that have not been mentioned yet. But I will save that for another day

Post: #72

(08-13-2017 05:39 AM)Fogg Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 08:12 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 07:32 AM)apolis Wrote:  I think only Rocha gets ONS from clubs in Kiev, as far as I remember.

I think it's meaningless for anyone who can't spend at least one month in Kiev to waste his money and time to kiss 'beauties' and end up masturbating every night.

I also disagree with your last part. Sure that at the end of the day the bang is what matters, but having intimacy, kissing, having a good time with a hot woman, and by this I mean a 8 plus, personally I found that it is what builds your confidence, makes you more experienced and comfortable around any woman, and it is the kind of thing that takes you to some steps above regarding your game. Nothing beats real life experience with women.

Yes, yes, that right there is what I agree with 100%. I am in my mid 30s now, had countless bangs - of varying quality - in my 20s and while I love bangs and it is the final goal, at the end of the day I just love going on dates with hot women, making out with hot women, courting hot women and just having a good time.
It gives me confidence and helps me build character. As a matter of fact, it is now far easier for me to game in my home country, Germany, because of the confidence boost I received while gaming in Kiev.

Same team ))

Post: #73

(08-13-2017 01:35 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(08-13-2017 05:39 AM)Fogg Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 08:12 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 07:32 AM)apolis Wrote:  I think only Rocha gets ONS from clubs in Kiev, as far as I remember.

I think it's meaningless for anyone who can't spend at least one month in Kiev to waste his money and time to kiss 'beauties' and end up masturbating every night.

I also disagree with your last part. Sure that at the end of the day the bang is what matters, but having intimacy, kissing, having a good time with a hot woman, and by this I mean a 8 plus, personally I found that it is what builds your confidence, makes you more experienced and comfortable around any woman, and it is the kind of thing that takes you to some steps above regarding your game. Nothing beats real life experience with women.

Yes, yes, that right there is what I agree with 100%. I am in my mid 30s now, had countless bangs - of varying quality - in my 20s and while I love bangs and it is the final goal, at the end of the day I just love going on dates with hot women, making out with hot women, courting hot women and just having a good time.
It gives me confidence and helps me build character. As a matter of fact, it is now far easier for me to game in my home country, Germany, because of the confidence boost I received while gaming in Kiev.

Same team ))

If those 8s and 9s are not lobotomized like the 99% of 8s and 9s on planet Earth, then yes, they deserve a chance to demonstrate their intelligence, before banging.

Post: #74

(08-13-2017 01:35 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(08-13-2017 05:39 AM)Fogg Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 08:12 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 07:32 AM)apolis Wrote:  I think only Rocha gets ONS from clubs in Kiev, as far as I remember.

I think it's meaningless for anyone who can't spend at least one month in Kiev to waste his money and time to kiss 'beauties' and end up masturbating every night.

I also disagree with your last part. Sure that at the end of the day the bang is what matters, but having intimacy, kissing, having a good time with a hot woman, and by this I mean a 8 plus, personally I found that it is what builds your confidence, makes you more experienced and comfortable around any woman, and it is the kind of thing that takes you to some steps above regarding your game. Nothing beats real life experience with women.

Yes, yes, that right there is what I agree with 100%. I am in my mid 30s now, had countless bangs - of varying quality - in my 20s and while I love bangs and it is the final goal, at the end of the day I just love going on dates with hot women, making out with hot women, courting hot women and just having a good time.
It gives me confidence and helps me build character. As a matter of fact, it is now far easier for me to game in my home country, Germany, because of the confidence boost I received while gaming in Kiev.

Same team ))

Definitely helped my game at home here in england. I don't find anyone attractive really, and I know ive done well with girls much better looking so when Ive been on dates here I really dont care too much, no anxiety or nervousness.

Post: #75

Back in 2011 when I made my first trip to Kiev I remember meeting a Chinese mid 30's guy that was engaging in some P4P. He had a deal to pay her $200 a day to stay with him for the 5 nights he was there.

In the end she turned out to be a hardcore groupie that said he didn't want the money because she liked him.

You won't find girls like that in Ukraine anymore... back then $1000US was a lot of money to give up.

Back then it was so much easier to girls as were even excited about coming to Kiev from small towns like Dnipro, Mykolaiv, etc ..now the girls are all on Instagram getting 30 messages day from guys all over the world.

Times have changed