Post: #1

In the Q & A Roosh did a couple of hours ago, someone asked the question about whether he should game being 40kg overweight, or lose weight first.

Click

Now Roosh might not have invested too much thought into this question, but I feel like I can add something to this.

Sure if you're overweight, losing weight is your priority. But what this guy was mainly asking for was, if he should give up game, until he lost some weight.

No. Don't.

I remember from the chat that he said that he's been doing game on and off for about 3 years and only gotten 1 bang from it. Usually his conversations don't last longer than 10 seconds.

First of all, if you're doing this on and off for 3 years, that already sounds like you are not taking it seriously enough. In 3 years of seriously practicing game, you should be amazing at this. There is no way someone could approach for 3 years, studying game, and have girls walk away after 10 seconds most of the time. Sure it happens, with direct and indirect, but if you ask the right indirect questions, most girls will stay for a couple of minutes. I've had longer conversations even with direct game, and I am 50 kg overweight.

Now there could be tons of issues this guy is having. Maybe his face is deformed. Maybe his approach is bad and girls get creeped out. Maybe it's his fashion sense. Maybe it's his game in general. Maybe it's the country he's from. Or maybe his low confidence, because of his weight, is actually affecting him so much, that girls notice. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You feel self-conscious about being fat, so that lowers your chances. I can't really tell what his problems were, but I can tell you, that the answer is not to just wait until you're thinner.

Losing weight is something you do as time progresses. You workout regularly, you eat healthy, you eat less. There is no reason you can't do at least one indirect approach every day.

You might think it's a waste of time, because your chances are lower, but why wait until you've lost weight to start improving your game? Chances are if girls walk away that fast from you, even in indirect approaches, your game is far from being good. You can still improve every day. Then when you have lost the weight, you are already there. Your game is already up to the standard that it needs to be, or at least you've improved a lot compared to now. If you hit the weight you need to be, you're gonna be amazing, because you've worked on your game every day.

And when is the right point anyway? When have you lost enough weight? Usually it's not that clear cut. It's more of a continuous thing. Losing 5 kilos is gonna make you look better. 10 is gonna be even better. And 20 even more. But that still means your chances have improved after the first 5 kilos, even if only slightly. You should also see an improvement in your game.

Then there's the thing with motivation. Just taking a break from game is probably not gonna motivate you to approach. Or to lose weight. You might lose sight of your goal.

Then there's approach anxiety. Imagine how it's gonna be to approach for the first time after you haven't approached for a year, compared to having approached for the past 365 days, every day. It's like going back to the gym after a year, compared to having trained every single day. It's much more of a habit, and it's a lot easier to just keep going.

And approaching also gives you a reason to leave the house, which will also make you burn some calories. And if you are already leaving the house regularly and stay outside for hours every now and then, you might as well invest 5 minutes on approaching here and there. Not approaching could actually put you into a very depressed mood. Because now you're not getting laid, you're not approaching, you're not talking to girls and sooner or later, you might think, fuck it, I'll never get there. Believe me, I've been there. I've first started approaching, without PUA guidance actually, 4 years ago, in 2013. I was at 99 kg. I had just lost 36 kg, getting down from 135kg, and I looked really good. I was still overweight, but I gained a lot of confidence. I've gotten compliments from girls. It was amazing. But my game wasn't tight, I only got a couple of facebooks, alcohol harmed my "game" and I quickly gave up, going back to World of Warcraft, gaining 50 kg again. I must've been around 145-150 kg at my high point, and now I'm back to 125 kg, lost around 20 over the last 5 months. All I can say is I regret I gave up that easily 4 years ago. I thought "oh well, they just don't like me I guess, maybe I'm still too fat". That is crazy. And it only harmed me. Believe me don't go down that path. Shut out the negative thoughts and focus on the positive things. Go out every day. Approach every day. Make this a habit. This will stop you from falling back into lazyness, and possibly, if you are like me, isolation.

Face rejection every day. Imagine how much tougher you're gonna be after 365 days of rejection. Once you're down to the weight you need to be, you will be a man of steel, that no one can harm.

Maybe it's just that I'm now 32, but I don't wanna waste a single day without having talked to a beautiful woman. So why deprive yourself of that? Maybe you're just looking for an excuse to put in less work?

I don't know, I just think if you're a fat guy, and you have that kind of mentality, it's just gonna harm you in the end. Try to act and approach girls as if you weren't fat. Go in with that kind of mentality and you're probably gonna see better results. You might not get laid until you've lost some weight, but you're not gonna get laid if you don't approach either. And this way, at the end of it, you'll at least be better at what you do.

Post: #2

(07-11-2017 10:55 AM)Thinking Out Loud Wrote:  In the Q & A Roosh did a couple of hours ago, someone asked the question about whether he should game being 40kg overweight, or lose weight first.

Click

Now Roosh might not have invested too much thought into this question, but I feel like I can add something to this.

Sure if you're overweight, losing weight is your priority. But what this guy was mainly asking for was, if he should give up game, until he lost some weight.

No. Don't.

I remember from the chat that he said that he's been doing game on and off for about 3 years and only gotten 1 bang from it. Usually his conversations don't last longer than 10 seconds.

First of all, if you're doing this on and off for 3 years, that already sounds like you are not taking it seriously enough. In 3 years of seriously practicing game, you should be amazing at this. There is no way someone could approach for 3 years, studying game, and have girls walk away after 10 seconds most of the time. Sure it happens, with direct and indirect, but if you ask the right indirect questions, most girls will stay for a couple of minutes. I've had longer conversations even with direct game, and I am 50 kg overweight.

Now there could be tons of issues this guy is having. Maybe his face is deformed. Maybe his approach is bad and girls get creeped out. Maybe it's his fashion sense. Maybe it's his game in general. Maybe it's the country he's from. Or maybe his low confidence, because of his weight, is actually affecting him so much, that girls notice. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You feel self-conscious about being fat, so that lowers your chances. I can't really tell what his problems were, but I can tell you, that the answer is not to just wait until you're thinner.

Losing weight is something you do as time progresses. You workout regularly, you eat healthy, you eat less. There is no reason you can't do at least one indirect approach every day.

You might think it's a waste of time, because your chances are lower, but why wait until you've lost weight to start improving your game? Chances are if girls walk away that fast from you, even in indirect approaches, your game is far from being good. You can still improve every day. Then when you have lost the weight, you are already there. Your game is already up to the standard that it needs to be, or at least you've improved a lot compared to now. If you hit the weight you need to be, you're gonna be amazing, because you've worked on your game every day.

And when is the right point anyway? When have you lost enough weight? Usually it's not that clear cut. It's more of a continuous thing. Losing 5 kilos is gonna make you look better. 10 is gonna be even better. And 20 even more. But that still means your chances have improved after the first 5 kilos, even if only slightly. You should also see an improvement in your game.

Then there's the thing with motivation. Just taking a break from game is probably not gonna motivate you to approach. Or to lose weight. You might lose sight of your goal.

Then there's approach anxiety. Imagine how it's gonna be to approach for the first time after you haven't approached for a year, compared to having approached for the past 365 days, every day. It's like going back to the gym after a year, compared to having trained every single day. It's much more of a habit, and it's a lot easier to just keep going.

And approaching also gives you a reason to leave the house, which will also make you burn some calories. And if you are already leaving the house regularly and stay outside for hours every now and then, you might as well invest 5 minutes on approaching here and there. Not approaching could actually put you into a very depressed mood. Because now you're not getting laid, you're not approaching, you're not talking to girls and sooner or later, you might think, fuck it, I'll never get there. Believe me, I've been there. I've first started approaching, without PUA guidance actually, 4 years ago, in 2013. I was at 99 kg. I had just lost 36 kg, getting down from 135kg, and I looked really good. I was still overweight, but I gained a lot of confidence. I've gotten compliments from girls. It was amazing. But my game wasn't tight, I only got a couple of facebooks, alcohol harmed my "game" and I quickly gave up, going back to World of Warcraft, gaining 50 kg again. I must've been around 145-150 kg at my high point, and now I'm back to 125 kg, lost around 20 over the last 5 months. All I can say is I regret I gave up that easily 4 years ago. I thought "oh well, they just don't like me I guess, maybe I'm still too fat". That is crazy. And it only harmed me. Believe me don't go down that path. Shut out the negative thoughts and focus on the positive things. Go out every day. Approach every day. Make this a habit. This will stop you from falling back into lazyness, and possibly, if you are like me, isolation.

Face rejection every day. Imagine how much tougher you're gonna be after 365 days of rejection. Once you're down to the weight you need to be, you will be a man of steel, that no one can harm.

Maybe it's just that I'm now 32, but I don't wanna waste a single day without having talked to a beautiful woman. So why deprive yourself of that? Maybe you're just looking for an excuse to put in less work?

I don't know, I just think if you're a fat guy, and you have that kind of mentality, it's just gonna harm you in the end. Try to act and approach girls as if you weren't fat. Go in with that kind of mentality and you're probably gonna see better results. You might not get laid until you've lost some weight, but you're not gonna get laid if you don't approach either. And this way, at the end of it, you'll at least be better at what you do.

Contrary to popular belief, women care a lot less about a mans weight than a man does about a woman's weight. I grew up with tons of heavy set friends that constantly pulled attractive women and still do to this day and they have serious game and are far from rich.

Of course u dont want to be morbidly obese approaching women but an extra 15-50 pounds is not going to hurt your chances THAT much with MOST women.

Post: #3

(07-11-2017 01:43 PM)miggyme1 Wrote:  Contrary to popular belief, women care a lot less about a mans weight than a man does about a woman's weight. I grew up with tons of heavy set friends that constantly pulled attractive women and still do to this day and they have serious game and are far from rich.

Of course u dont want to be morbidly obese approaching women but an extra 15-50 pounds is not going to hurt your chances THAT much with MOST women.

I agree. I hope it's not something that makes people abandon game or even postpone learning it. Man, I've seen so many fat or chubby guys with good-looking women. Not more often than the other way around, but still, makes you kinda think, what is it that these guys are doing. Obviously they know how to behave around women to still create attraction. Women really are a lot less shallow than some men give them credit for. They respect masculinity, independence, non-needyness and balls more than looks.

Post: #4

If a guy is fat and tall he's fine.

If he's fat and short he's fucked and needs to spend the next 8 months in the gym and the kitchen.

Post: #5

(07-11-2017 03:39 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  If a guy is fat and tall he's fine.

If he's fat and short he's fucked and needs to spend the next 8 months in the gym and the kitchen.

There's plenty of time to still approach. I lost 5 kilos alone in the last week, which is actually kind of scary, because losing too much weight too fast is dangerous and your skin doesn't have enough time to fit your body and it will be very loose and hang, which isn't attractive either. So losing weight slowly over time instead of losing 30 kilos in a month is much more advisable. And you shouldn't spend just the next 8 months in the gym, you should go there for the rest of your life. But doing cardio every couple of days to lose weight, or lifting 2-3 times a week for 2 hours is enough. Combined with eating less and eating right, it's gonna be ok. Spending 6 hours in the gym each week still leaves a lot of time to approach. So to tell a fat guy to lose weight before he does game is nonsense. Even if you only get facebooks and build your social circle, it's an improvement.

Post: #6

(07-11-2017 03:49 PM)Thinking Out Loud Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 03:39 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  If a guy is fat and tall he's fine.

If he's fat and short he's fucked and needs to spend the next 8 months in the gym and the kitchen.

There's plenty of time to still approach. I lost 5 kilos alone in the last week, which is actually kind of scary, because losing too much weight too fast is dangerous and your skin doesn't have enough time to fit your body and it will be very loose and hang, which isn't attractive either. And you shouldn't spend just the next 8 months in the gym, you should go there for the rest of your life. But doing cardio every couple of days to lose weight, or lifting 2-3 times a week for 2 hours is enough. Combined with eating less and eating right, it's gonna be ok. Spending 6 hours in the gym each week still leaves a lot of time to approach. So to tell a fat guy to lose weight before he does game is nonsense. Even if you only get facebooks and build your social circle, it's an improvement.

Bro who are you talking to? I'm buff and jacked and never been overweight in my life. I was cold approaching before the term even existed. I was just giving basic layman advice if you're fat get your ass in the gym. No need to get philosophical about it.

No shit practice game if you feel like it and no shit always work out. You're talking to a guy with a top 10% physique and hundreds of approaches. Do you think I'm the guy from the QA or some lazy fat fuck or something?

Post: #7

(07-11-2017 03:55 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  Bro who are you talking to?

A 6-year-old apparently.

Post: #8

Darkwing bro, it seems to me Thinking Out Loud was talking generally. He obviously could not have any idea what you look like and was not addressing you personally. You could, perhaps, say he was thinking out loud. Chill.

Post: #9

(07-11-2017 04:41 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Darkwing bro, it seems to me Thinking Out Loud was talking generally. He obviously could not have any idea what you look like and was not addressing you personally. You could, perhaps, say he was thinking out loud. Chill.

My issue is all I said is fat guys should hit the gym. Then people wanna nitpick and get overly pedantic and go into a whole essay on what I said. I fucking hate who unnecessarily nitpick and get pedantic like that.

i'm not gonna chill.

i say hit the gym for 8 months and he wants to criticize my words as if I'M not speaking in general terms or I need the advice. fuck outta here

Post: #10

(07-11-2017 04:55 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 04:41 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Darkwing bro, it seems to me Thinking Out Loud was talking generally. He obviously could not have any idea what you look like and was not addressing you personally. You could, perhaps, say he was thinking out loud. Chill.

My issue is all I said is fat guys should hit the gym. Then people wanna nitpick and get overly pedantic and go into a whole essay on what I said. I fucking hate who unnecessarily nitpick and get pedantic like that.

i'm not gonna chill.

i say hit the gym for 8 months and he wants to criticize my words as if I'M not speaking in general terms or I need the advice. fuck outta here

I think you might be the missing link.

Post: #11

OP, I appreciate you taking the time to write this post but it isn't very clear.

Have you approached women while 40-50kg overweight? 50kg is 110 pounds. How did it go for you?

Post: #12

(07-11-2017 05:03 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  OP, I appreciate you taking the time to write this post but it isn't very clear.

Have you approached women while 40-50kg overweight? 50kg is 110 pounds. How did it go for you?

I started my log here.

/thread-63739.html

There's a link to my post in the introduction thread.

In short, I've only been doing this for 6 weeks now, and I've only really stepped it up in the last 3 weeks. So I haven't gotten laid yet, nor have I been on a date. The only number I got where the girl texted me back, I completely messed up.

Yes I have done all these approaches while being overweight. I'm at 125 kg, which is at least 45-50 kg overweight according to my doctor. When I started approaching I was even 10 kg heavier than that. Now I did not achieve anything miraculous, I know I don't look like an Adonis. I'm bald, I wear glasses, I'm fat and short.

But that's exactly why it surprises me that someone that is about as overweight as I am would often not even get girls to engage with him for longer than 10 seconds. Because I have had a lot of longer conversations in the last weeks. I've had bad results. But I've had really great conversations, too. And the worst results I had was girls walking away without saying a word after I told them they look nice, which is probably normal. But if someone gets these kind of bad results, it can't just be the weight.

Post: #13

(07-11-2017 04:55 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 04:41 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Darkwing bro, it seems to me Thinking Out Loud was talking generally. He obviously could not have any idea what you look like and was not addressing you personally. You could, perhaps, say he was thinking out loud. Chill.

My issue is all I said is fat guys should hit the gym. Then people wanna nitpick and get overly pedantic and go into a whole essay on what I said. I fucking hate who unnecessarily nitpick and get pedantic like that.

i'm not gonna chill.

i say hit the gym for 8 months and he wants to criticize my words as if I'M not speaking in general terms or I need the advice. fuck outta here

Bro I think you are reading way too much into what the guy said and for some reason interpreting as an attack on you.

He made a thread to encourage speaking to girls no matter your weight.

One of his first sentences in the OP says that of course the priority should be getting un-fat.

You then said the priority should be getting un-fat- which was already acknowledged, so OP went on to say how going out and talking to girls is still important- which is the point of his thread. You then think he is calling you fat, so you get upset.

He wasn't talking to you, he was making a point to fat guys so they understand they can still develop socially. That is all.

Neither you or I are fat, no need to further derail this dudes effort to help fat guys.

Post: #14

(07-11-2017 05:13 PM)Thinking Out Loud Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 05:03 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  OP, I appreciate you taking the time to write this post but it isn't very clear.

Have you approached women while 40-50kg overweight? 50kg is 110 pounds. How did it go for you?

I started my log here.

/thread-63739.html

There's a link to my post in the introduction thread.

In short, I've only been doing this for 6 weeks now, and I've only really stepped it up in the last 3 weeks. So I haven't gotten laid yet, nor have I been on a date. The only number I got where the girl texted me back, I completely messed up.

Yes I have done all these approaches while being overweight. I'm at 125 kg, which is at least 45-50 kg overweight according to my doctor. When I started approaching I was even 10 kg heavier than that. Now I did not achieve anything miraculous, I know I don't look like an Adonis. I'm bald, I wear glasses, I'm fat and short.

But that's exactly why it surprises me that someone that is about as overweight as I am would often not even get girls to engage with him for longer than 10 seconds. Because I have had a lot of longer conversations in the last weeks. I've had bad results. But I've had really great conversations, too. And the worst results I had was girls walking away without saying a word after I told them they look nice, which is probably normal. But if someone gets these kind of bad results, it can't just be the weight.

Well, good for you for trying to better yourself, as long as you don't burn out when you fail to see success.

Post: #15

(07-11-2017 05:22 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Well, good for you for trying to better yourself, as long as you don't burn out when you fail to see success.

Sam, this is a pretty shitty comment.

Post: #16

OP, I don't have anything to add to the topic but I want to commend you for encouraging dudes to get out and try to speak to women and enjoy life no matter their weight or whatever issue. There are dudes here in far better physical condition who still can't muster the motivation to start living life to its fullest or to even try.

Post: #17

(07-11-2017 05:22 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Well, good for you for trying to better yourself, as long as you don't burn out when you fail to see success.

Success can come in many forms. I do not expect to get laid anytime soon. First, a date would be nice. I only went on one date in my life and I completely messed it up. Actually in hindsight, there were tons of clues she wanted to fuck me, but I was just not going for it, so a second date never happened.

Mentally, I don't expect to get laid before I have lost some more weight, but at the same time, I try not to think of my weight, because it will only decrease my chances even further if I keep thinking "I could never get her".

Post: #18

(07-11-2017 05:28 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  OP, I don't have anything to add to the topic but I want to commend you for encouraging dudes to get out and try to speak to women and enjoy life no matter their weight or whatever issue. There are dudes here in far better physical condition who still can't muster the motivation to start living life to its fullest or to even try.

Thanks man. Yeah, it boggles my mind. The thing is, I've been working out somewhat regularly since 2006, with breaks in between, but even though I still have a lot of fat, you can see some muscles, broad shoulders etc. So when I'm in clothes that try to highlight those muscles and hide my fat as much as possible, it's not as bad as some people might imagine.

But I know guys, that are so thin, they don't work out, they dress terribly, they don't take proper care of their beard or hair. They could look a lot better and improve their game and go out and be amazing. Yet, they're sitting there in long-term-relationships with ugly, fat, violent girls that make them miserable. It's like these guys don't know how much better they can do if they only tried. All my cousins and all my friends are in these shitty relationships and marriages, having kids they never planned for, being tied to horrible women. It's awful.

Post: #19

(07-11-2017 05:24 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Sam, this is a pretty shitty comment.

I think it's a legitimate concern. 50kg is 110lbs. He's not going to have a lot of success getting laid as a beginner with 110lbs of extra fat hanging off him.

The benefit he's seeing here, which is what he's writing about, is that it's helping him with his approach anxiety, and getting him used to talking to women. This is a real benefit, and it's to his credit that he recognizes it. People who have been chronically fat often have extreme issues socializing with women, and before they can make any progress they need to get it through their heads that it's possible to hold a conversation with a woman at all with the cops being called, everyone pointing and laughing at them, or some other vague and horrifying thing happening. If you've been fat all your life, you can't immediately jump into being a lethario. You need to go through a mental progression which is something like, "I can talk to girls without a negative reaction." -> "I can talk to girls with a positive reaction." -> "Girls enjoy it when I talk to them." -> "I can ask girls for their number/flirt with them without a negative reaction." -> "Girls enjoy it when I flirt with them." -> "I can have sex with girls." -> "Girls enjoy it when I have sex with them."

Maybe not necessarily in this order, and you certainly have to go through all these steps before you meet any success, but you have to go through some kind of process like this. OP is currently going through this process.

The concern is that he's got a long way to go before he meets success, and that means a lot of hours spent banging his head against the wall with very little in the way of tangible results. It's going to mean a lot of dashed hopes and a lot of dead ends. If he can power through all that, he'll be very happy with the end result. But I think it's important to recognize that success isn't coming any time soon when you're 110lbs overweight, and be mentally prepared for it.

Post: #20

(07-11-2017 05:47 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 05:24 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Sam, this is a pretty shitty comment.

I think it's a legitimate concern. 50kg is 110lbs. He's not going to have a lot of success getting laid as a beginner with 110lbs of extra fat hanging off him.

The benefit he's seeing here, which is what he's writing about, is that it's helping him with his approach anxiety, and getting him used to talking to women. This is a real benefit, and it's to his credit that he recognizes it. People who have been chronically fat often have extreme issues socializing with women, and before they can make any progress they need to get it through their heads that it's possible to hold a conversation with a woman at all with the cops being called, everyone pointing and laughing at them, or some other vague and horrifying thing happening. If you've been fat all your life, you can't immediately jump into being a lethario. You need to go through a mental progression which is something like, "I can talk to girls without a negative reaction." -> "I can talk to girls with a positive reaction." -> "Girls enjoy it when I talk to them." -> "I can ask girls for their number/flirt with them without a negative reaction." -> "Girls enjoy it when I flirt with them." -> "I can have sex with girls." -> "Girls enjoy it when I have sex with them."

Maybe not necessarily in this order, and you certainly have to go through all these steps before you meet any success, but you have to go through some kind of process like this. OP is currently going through this process.

The concern is that he's got a long way to go before he meets success, and that means a lot of hours spent banging his head against the wall with very little in the way of tangible results. It's going to mean a lot of dashed hopes and a lot of dead ends. If he can power through all that, he'll be very happy with the end result. But I think it's important to recognize that success isn't coming any time soon when you're 110lbs overweight, and be mentally prepared for it.

I whole-heartedly agree. Actually it's a process, that has started for me in 2003, when I first became more social and started to overcome my awkwardness. Funnily enough, I was only around 10-15 kg overweight back then, I only started to become mortally obese when World of Warcraft hit my life. So for the past 10-15 years, I was already becoming more and more confident in talking to girls. I just always thought that to get them to like me I have to be the nice guy, and when that didn't work, I became frustrated and gave up. It's game that has shown me that I've just been doing it all wrong.

I mean one day, in 2006, I approached a girl in a club with a rose and after she rejected me nicely, I later went up to her and told her how that rose needs a lot of care, and I should probably make sure she takes proper care of it by coming by her house and checking every day. I don't even know if I was just joking back then. But that's the kinda guy I was. I think inappropriate jokes have been one of my biggest problems for the longest time.

It's always a long and continuous process, but I finally have the motivation I was always looking for. It's that lack of motivation that made me fall back into old habits back in 2013 and made me gain back 50 kg.

Post: #21

There is the overweight build like Michael Moore, then there is the overweight build like a NFL lineman. Get some muscle behind that fat and you won't be too bad.

Post: #22

I have never been 5 pounds over weight. So I cannot sympathize.
But I can tell you from years of experience and observation.

You got to realize that being fat is a mindset.
There are plenty of jacked meathead guys who can only get meathead girls.
Human nature seeks its own level.

Losing weight for the sake of losing weight is the same ethos as making money for the sake of making money. Or having sex for the sake of having sex.
You must work at inner and outer game simultaneously.

I'm not gonna sugar coat it. When do you ever see very attractive women with broke-middle-class fat men? The exception proves the rule.
Losing weight should be a personal and intimate decision to become something you intend on achieving.
Or ASAP --> Make a boat load of money and befriend some rich playboys.

People are making points. Darkwing is intense. But his point is straight up. You need to stop over-thinking and start putting in INTENSE work.
Burning Fat of the mind, body and soul does not respond to the casual work out. You need to set realistic yet rigorous processes and systems in place *not a fan of goals
and get down to brass tacks. Or....
No one will do it for you and you will still be at square one. Which no one on this forum wants for you.

Good luck with progress. It's tough. It's debilitating. But, you'll appreciate your results more than someone like me who "takes it for granted."

Post: #23

I advocate for getting into shape before beginning the hunt.

The rejections you get for being fat will damage your self confidence in the long term, and affect your game start when you get in shape.

Post: #24

Let me speak as someone who knows exactly about the scenario the OP posted about. I haven't read the whole thread but skimmed it a bit so hopefully I am not just repeating something another person said.

Just FYI I haven't met Darkwing, but the guy sounds cool. He is just intense, kind of like me in that sense haha.

Ok so as of a few months ago I was around 100 lbs overweight depending on what you consider overweight exactly. I was about 6'2'' and 315 lbs. As one poster mentioned however, I had the build of a NFL lineman as opposed to Michael Moore pure fat. I have since lost a little under 60 lbs and from what I can tell it was mainly fat. I didn't lose much strength and gained strength in many areas, so I think now I am within a month of looking more like an NFL linebacker (obviously not as jacked, but for most people and women particularly they treat me like that).

Also at around the same time I began an approach mission and some days did as many as 11 approaches. I have kept a log but I haven't transferred parts of it from my phone so I haven't checked the exact numbers. I probably have around 350 approaches since May in day game type situations and from what I've gathered I have averaged about 25-35% with cold approaches to numbers. As far as day game goes my skills are probably intermediate or advanced depending on who you ask, and dating is obviously a big part of the equation and different then just approaching, and I'd say I am just transitioning from beginner to intermediate in that realm.

My opinion on the approaching/continuing game versus losing weight thing is that they both should be done simultaneously, but because they achieve different ends overall.

Should one approach while they are heavily overweight? Absolutely.

Since I have begun approaching, when I was over 300 lbs, I still got numbers from many girls that were in the 5+ range, and a good amount of 7+, and some but relatively few 8+. The thing is that game is a skill that can be developed by anyone regardless of how they look. The main limiting factor is, for lack of a better term, how intelligent you are and how quickly you learn from your successes and failures. This goes hand in hand with having more experience, so long as you are learning the whole time, and the fact of the matter is if you have 1000 approaches and 100 girls that you date and 10 notches you will be better off in terms of your game than if you have 50 approaches, 5 numbers and 1 notch. That goes even further for not approaching and dating and having sex at all. This is true regardless of how fat you are, how ugly you are, if you are deformed or handicapped, or whatever else.

I can say with confidence that now after this couple of months of approaching my game has clearly reached a new level. I am not saying that I am a game god, but I am clearly better than I was before all the approaching. This is even true despite the fact that I was not new to the game by any means and had decent experience before. For this reason, and with the caveat that this is only true IF YOU LEARN AND PUSH THROUGH THE REJECTIONS AND PAIN, you should be trying to up your game even before you lose any weight. I can say with confidence that women can tell right now when I approach them that I am a player/seducer/womanizer/whatever else they or you may call it, and for most of them they REALLY seem to like it, contrary to what you may think about being viewed that way. I'd say that lately I am probably closer to a 40-50% approach to number rate, and while yes, I look better and have lost weight, I attribute this highly to my subconscious body language and conscious experience causing women to like me more.

Now is weight loss and having a better, and preferably great, body important? Absolutely.

There are many reasons for this. These are not in order of importance.

1. When you look good it helps you feel good, and your value goes up not because of how you physically appear, but more so because you are a more happy/positive guy. Almost every woman wants a man that is positive and happy among other things. I was previously a depressed overweight guy. This came through in my interactions and made them harder.

I approached a girl about a year ago at 300+ pounds. She is easily an 8 if you absolutely hate Mexicans, and certainly a 9.5 is you like Latinas. No joke she is the type that could easily go on those Latin television shows as a weather woman or something else simply based on how she looks. When I approached her at that weight and with a slightly more depressed attitude she was very polite and said she wasn't single. She wasn't mean or cold at all, but she spoke matter of factly. I approached her again recently having lost 50-60 pounds with what I think was the same type of approach. I don't think she remembered me but I mentioned that I talked to her a year ago and asked if she was still not single. The difference is now I am more fit and have a very positive attitude because of all of my approaches. That being said, if I want to be objective and blunt, I am still not in the physical shape to be on her level physically. This time when I talked to her she was incredibly nice, had a truly warm and bright smile, and based on her body language acted as if I made her day. Keep in mind I am still 50 lbs away from having a body that would be near her physical level. I attribute this at least in part to the look good feel good factor and my newly raised charisma.

2. Clothes fit better. When you look good you can buy a shirt at Walmart and get attention just based on your body. When you are out of shape you can wear a $300 shirt and still many women will not care. If you take two guys that look exactly the same and have the exact same level of game and approach but one guy is really overweight and the other is in great shape, chances are 9 times out of 10 the in shape guy wins.

3. Women will give you IOIs more just based on looks. To put it in a non PUA way, being "hot" will make it so that lots more women will basically nonverbally beg for you to hit on them and they will let you get away with a lot more and make lots more mistakes simply because you look good. Whereas when you are overweight for most girls they will only allow you a slim margin of error, the better your body looks the exponentially higher that margin of error grows.

I will say this. Years ago I had very little game and tons of approach anxiety, but I was easily 10% in terms of my body if I'm pessimistic and more like top 5% in any given US city. I didn't approach all that much and didn't know what I was doing when I did or on dates. Yes, I got laid. Yes, I got lots of IOI's.

At 300+ I approached much more and with a higher level of game. Now I am in the 250's. I have gotten more notches during this time period then almost any other equivalent time period, and actually more than when I was in my best shape.

Conclusion, Game will generally trump Body Shape. Game and a HOT body will take you to the ceiling, and other factors will then allow you break through that ceiling.

Post: #25

(07-11-2017 11:21 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  Let me speak as someone who knows exactly about the scenario the OP posted about. I haven't read the whole thread but skimmed it a bit so hopefully I am not just repeating something another person said.

With all due respect, Stacks, you don't know about the situation OP is posting about. Your top weight is similar, but you were an athlete/bodybuilder who worked in a gym and would, pre-weightgain, be approached by women who wanted you to take them home and fuck them, presumably because you were in such good shape.

You're not going to have the problems that a guy who's been on one date in his life will have.

EDIT: I'm sure I read earlier OP was saying he'd only ever been on one date in his life. I can't find it now. Maybe I imagined it, in which case, I'm sorry OP.