Post: #1

Hey all,

I don't post much on this forum but read it (and re-read it) everyday.
You could say I'm the "Man without a Voice", or just a born listener.

I had a question for you guys just to see if anyone else has been in my situation:

Has anyone ever faced a jail sentence or gotten charged with a felony?

What did you do after the whole thing was over?

I'm facing a few non-violent felony charges (most, if not all charges will be dropped).

This could leave a stain on my record and affect future employment.

My friend said he could get me a job in Private Military Company, and that his close ties with the corporation could waive a felony, provided that I had outstanding service.

I feel like I really got fucked over.

What's a good country to start over in for an English speaker? I can also learn a new language no problem, I'm studying Portuguese right now.

I'm hoping to finish college within the next year or two with a degree in Business (provided I don't have to do time).

I'd like to start a company and do work as an entrepreneur as well.

Any insights, comments, or opinions completely welcome

Post: #2

If the charges are being dropped you have nothing to worry about. The cops in your state may fuck with you because they have access to arrest records, but they won't show up on a background check for employment.

If you do wind up getting convicted your best bet is to start your own business. Depending on your field, you may lose clients when they do their due diligence, but in those cases you should be up front with them.

Post: #3

(04-18-2012 02:38 PM)Arcais Wrote:  Hey all,

I don't post much on this forum but read it (and re-read it) everyday.
You could say I'm the "Man without a Voice", or just a born listener.

I had a question for you guys just to see if anyone else has been in my situation:

Has anyone ever faced a jail sentence or gotten charged with a felony?

What did you do after the whole thing was over?

I'm facing a few non-violent felony charges (most, if not all charges will be dropped).

This could leave a stain on my record and affect future employment.

My friend said he could get me a job in Private Military Company, and that his close ties with the corporation could waive a felony, provided that I had outstanding service.

I feel like I really got fucked over.

What's a good country to start over in for an English speaker? I can also learn a new language no problem, I'm studying Portuguese right now.

I'm hoping to finish college within the next year or two with a degree in Business (provided I don't have to do time).

I'd like to start a company and do work as an entrepreneur as well.

Any insights, comments, or opinions completely welcome

I was facing a very similar situation for a serious non violent crime. I was caught with ample evidence and guilty as hell, or as my attorney put it, we had "bad facts." I was charged with 2 felonies and 2 misdemeanors.
I paid about 30k to a lawyer (just for a pre trial retainer, she is nationally known and a trial would have been 6 figures) and 5k to a clinical psychologist who wrote an extensive report detailing how I wasn't responsible for my actions, and also I got a bunch of character letters from my friends, colleagues, and some family friends. After an enormous amount of delays and pre trial hearings and such, I got the deal of a lifetime - all charges dropped, I was recharged with a "wobbler" - a crime that can be either a felony or misd, with the terms that once I completed 480 hours of community service, the charge would be reduced to a misd, AND set aside and dismissed once I completed the community service. I also had 3 years of probation, which was agreed to be terminated upon completion of community service. I then proceeded to do 60 days of community service in 63 almost consecutive days, and finally, my nightmare was over.

Do everything you can to avoid a felony conviction. Drag out the pre trial stuff, do serious volunteer work in something related to your crime without being ordered to and then get the director of that organization to write you a strong character letter.

If I had been a minority, without money, or not clever enough to manipulate the right people into writing me extremely crucial letters of support, I would have gone to jail for a couple of years or so.

Post: #4

Get the best lawyer you can afford. Now is the time to hit up "long lost uncles" for cash.

The amount you spend on a lawyer is directly related to the positiveness of your outcome.

Think 25-50K.

Post: #5

(04-18-2012 04:03 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Get the best lawyer you can afford. Now is the time to hit up "long lost uncles" for cash.

The amount you spend on a lawyer is directly related to the positiveness of your outcome.

Think 25-50K.

Lawd! 5k here can get the ball rolling with a very very good lawyer. 10k for a slam dunk. That sucks!

What kind of charges are we talking? My buddy beat some coke trafficking shit with 10k. I watched another one spend 70k and get thrown under the bus 12 years in the fed

Post: #6

(04-18-2012 04:08 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 04:03 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Get the best lawyer you can afford. Now is the time to hit up "long lost uncles" for cash.

The amount you spend on a lawyer is directly related to the positiveness of your outcome.

Think 25-50K.

Lawd! 5k here can get the ball rolling with a very very good lawyer. 10k for a slam dunk. That sucks!

What kind of charges are we talking? My buddy beat some coke trafficking shit with 10k. I watched another one spend 70k and get thrown under the bus 12 years in the fed

Fed is completely different from state court.

Rarely does anyone get a good result in federal court.

Interestingly, the federal defense bar charges far higher fees than state court lawyers - as federal court is more "prestigious."

Post: #7

Do you have an opportunity to do a program for first offenders, to get the charges dropped? Ask your attorney about programs like this ... they're often called "deferred adjudication," "dversion," or "adjournment in contemplation of dismissal."

Post: #8

- Keyser Soze - Thank you so much for the information.

How many letters of character should I have? I'm planning on getting 12 from business professionals, military, family friends and friends. Hopeully my case will be dropped due to community service and the aforementioned in your post.

-Humanist -I will ask my lawyer about "deferred adjudication," "dversion," or "adjournment in contemplation of dismissal." can you break these things down for me? I'm going to look up what these terms mean.

I paid 10k for the Lawyer. He is a junior executive in the office (He looks about 35-40 age wise) and he will be working with the other lawyers in the office on my case. I'm not sure whether to pick this guy or just turn it over to a better more experienced lawyer in the firm. The junior executive his cousin is a judge and he has close connections with the DA. He seems like he knows what hes doing but I already paid a retainer to the firm.


It's a state court case.

I'm not sure just how price affects the quality of the lawyer. If more is better than obviously I need to hit up long lost uncles for cash to cover this.

I'll keep you guys updated, thank you for the information.

Post: #9

Ah, our American justice system at work. Such fucking horse shit. You only have as much rights as you can pay for, and you are ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent.

Good luck bro. Hope you get out of it.

Post: #10

(04-19-2012 01:55 AM)Arcais Wrote:  -Humanist -I will ask my lawyer about "deferred adjudication," "dversion," or "adjournment in contemplation of dismissal." can you break these things down for me? I'm going to look up what these terms mean.
....

I'm not sure just how price affects the quality of the lawyer. If more is better than obviously I need to hit up long lost uncles for cash to cover this.
....

Price really does not say much about the quality of the lawyer. A lawyer who can command a higher price MAY be better than a cheaper lawyer. But there are cheaper lawyers who are damn good, but prefer to cater to lower-end clientele because poor clientele tend to be lower maintenance. (Clients paying larger fees can be very difficult to deal with.)

As to "deferred adjudication," "diversion," or "adjournment in contemplation of dismissal," these all are roughly the same thing. For simplicity's sake, let's just call it "diversion," though your state may call it something else.

(Keep in mind that what I'm telling you MAY not apply in your state, so make no decisions based on my words. This is just giving you some ideas to talk to your lawyer about. Trust your lawyer.)

The idea is that first offenders often deserve the opportunity to keep a one-time screwup from turning into a permanent conviction. In my state you can get diversion for offenses ranging from misdemeanors to certain very serious offenses, such as home-invasion burglary, high-level thefts, voluntary manslaughter, etc. (But you can't get it for the most serious offenses, such as armed robbery, aggravated rape, any degree of murder, etc.)

There are two kinds of diversion in my state. Pretrial diversion and judicial diversion. Pretrial diversion involves the "deferment" (that is, the delay) of the entire prosecution. You go on probation for a year and, if you successfully complete the probation, the case is dismissed by the district attorney's office. You have to apply for this kind of diversion to the district attorney.

The other kind of diversion, judicial diversion, is granted by the judge. To get this diversion, you plead guilty. But the sentencing is deferred until the end of a probationary period. If you successfully complete the probation, you are not sentenced, and the case is dismissed. You may wonder, "but I pled guilty, so how is that not a conviction?" Answer: There are two things needed for a criminal conviction -- an adjudication of guilt, and a sentence imposed by the court. An adjudication of guilt can come in two ways, (1) by a plea of guilty, or (2) a finding of guilt at a trial. By pleading guilty at the beginning of diversion, that is an adjudication of guilt, but the sentence is deferred and actually never occurs if you successfully complete diversion. Thus, if you are not sentenced, the case can be totally dismissed and expunged (in my state). So it is NOT a conviction if you successfully complete diversion.

If you fail to complete your probation successfully, you are then sentenced and possibly can receive jail time, and it IS a conviction.

Depending on the laws of your state, you may be able to be placed on diversion by agreement between you, your attorney, and the district attorney -- that is, the judge just signs off on it without a hearing. Sometimes, though, it is necessary to petition the judge to grant you diversion, and you have to have a hearing to determine whether you're a worthy candidate.

Post: #11

When I paid a 30k retainer, I wasn't just paying for the lawyer's expertise/experience, I was paying for her relationships with high ranking police officials, prosecutors, judges, etc.

Post: #12

My attorney doesn't seem very aggressive. I'm not sure If I can keep him or even afford another lawyer. I'm making moves on doing community service and getting letters of character from police officers I know and Army officers I served under.

My state is California.

My lawyer seems like he has a strong connection with the court system because his cousin is a judge and he does smaller cases like mine. (triple felony is no joke though)

I will call my attorney tomorrow and ask about "Diversion" and "Deferment" My court date is set on june 14th. I want to make sure I win my lawyer's respect before I push for this kind of move but I feel like I'm running out of time and could face a maximum of 10 years in jail if my lawyer drops the ball.

Thank you for your help Humanist and Keyser.

Post: #13

(04-19-2012 11:32 PM)Arcais Wrote:  My attorney doesn't seem very aggressive. I'm not sure If I can keep him or even afford another lawyer. I'm making moves on doing community service and getting letters of character from police officers I know and Army officers I served under.

My state is California.

My lawyer seems like he has a strong connection with the court system because his cousin is a judge and he does smaller cases like mine. (triple felony is no joke though)

I will call my attorney tomorrow and ask about "Diversion" and "Deferment" My court date is set on june 14th. I want to make sure I win my lawyer's respect before I push for this kind of move but I feel like I'm running out of time and could face a maximum of 10 years in jail if my lawyer drops the ball.

Thank you for your help Humanist and Keyser.

I caught my case in California too. Anyhow, I don't think you are running out of time. The courts are generally pretty busy, and if your attorney requests more time giving a good reason if necessary, then pushing the date back is routine.

Do not rush anything. The more time you have to prepare, and get more good facts and support on your side, the better. The stuff I said about volunteering is key. The DA initially was opposed to the deal. The thing that just tipped the scales in my favor, after everything else and all that money, was a 2 page letter I got from the head of a non profit where I had volunteered for over 200 hours without being ordered to. The DA, who was also the mayor of Compton at the time, said to me I can't believe I'm doing this, don't waste the chance, and then signed off on it.

Your lawyer may be plenty good enough, but if you have serious doubts, and have any way of getting another lawyer without robbing a bank, do so.

Even if you don't get prison time, don't underestimate the seriousness of having a felony conviction on your record. It never goes away without a pardon from the governor. It would be better to get a few months in county lockup and a misdemeanor than probation and a felony.

Post: #14

(04-18-2012 02:38 PM)Arcais Wrote:  Has anyone ever faced a jail sentence or gotten charged with a felony?

What did you do after the whole thing was over?

Necroposting since this is bound to continue being a relevant topic for many, given that 8.6% of the adult population has a felony conviction.

I entered the federal system in 2008, served 14 months behind bars, then spent 6 months on the outside, then served another 22 months behind bars, then spent another 6 months on the outside, and then served another 10 months behind bars. Then I was done.

I've noticed this seems to be a pretty common type of pattern in the federal system. A lot of people get busted for supervised release violations, especially if they use drugs, and end up spending a lot more time in prison than what they originally got sentenced to. These days, the probationary restrictions tend to be pretty onerous, and therefore a lot of guys decide to say "fuck you" to U.S. Probation and go back behind bars rather than deal with all the hassles.

After my sentence was completely over, I had a marriage that ended up failing partly because of a flawed premise that my wife and I could start a business together that was going to make us rich (or at least make a meaningful contribution to society). Unfortunately, I repeated that same mistake with my second wife before I finally figured out, girls who perceive themselves to be a weak negotiating position will often compensate by seeming to go along with whatever plans you suggest, but they won't actually follow through with it; in the end, women expect men to take care of them.

When I first started job-hunting after prison, I spun my wheels for about six months applying at pretty much every retail and restaurant job I could think of. Meanwhile, I was also working at an unpaid computer repair internship. Eventually, my boss told me that the internship wasn't going to lead to a paying job (partly because that whole industry is shrinking, as computers get ever cheaper to simply replace when they break).

I also found out that, even in the retail and restaurant fields, if you're trying to get a job, you need to present yourself as the ideal candidate. That means coming up with a fake employment history and career goals that match what they would be looking for. Once I started doing that, I started getting offers, but then I realized that if I didn't mind falsifying my history, I might as well go back into accounting, where I could be making twice as much money as in retail.

So, I went back into accounting, and worked in that field for a year before my employer found out I'd been in prison, and let me go because I'd falsified my job application. I then worked a couple of temp gigs, and it wasn't long after that, that due to my political activities, my past ended up being splashed across the regional media, which pretty much blew my cover in the local accounting community.

(One might say, I should've kept a lower profile, but I think the direction I was headed in was a life similar to this anyway. As time has gone on, I've concluded more and more that it doesn't really matter all that much what you do; society is divided into the givers and the takers (or the providers and the moochers, or the producers and the looters, or whatever you want to call them), and when you leave one of those classes, all it means is that you end up in the other. It seems to be becoming harder and harder to leave a meaningful legacy.)

So, next I was going to try to get back into programming, but that didn't pan out, because all the skilled programmers are busy with paying work, and don't have time for entrepreneurial projects. So at this point I'm mostly just hanging around. It seems as though at 36, my life is over. But then again, it seems like our civilization too is on a decline that will likely end in its collapse before it changes its ways, so I'm not sure it really matters.

There are some who have bounced back from a felony conviction by working for a family business or getting into the blue collar trades. I could give it a try, theoretically, but it's not like I know anyone in those trades. The last time I researched, it seemed like the process for getting into those trades isn't as straightforward in my state as it is in some other states.

I was going to apply for SSDI, but it turns out that if you've been out of work for five of the past ten years, lawyers typically won't want to take your case. I hadn't realized that. I'm at a point now of wondering, what is really the point of participating in this society as a productive worker; what is the benefit? What's the prize that I can get? It seems like the available women these days are arrogant, uncooperative, and hard to please. Even when I had a job, it's like I was never making enough to meet the standard.

I seem to remember that, when I was a teenager working retail, or washing dishes in the back of a restaurant, there was usually at least one tattooed, snaggletoothed 45-year-old guy hanging around who said he was just there because his felony kept him from doing any other job. A lot of those guys didn't last long before getting fired for one reason or another.

I could try to go into those fields, but the fact is, companies typically don't actually want felons working for them. It puts them at risk of legal liability. There was only one instance when someone knew about the felony and hired me anyway. I started telling him about it during the hiring process and he interrupted me and said, "You don't have to tell me about that." It was a seasonal tax gig at a place that had very slow business that year (probably because more people are doing their own taxes these days) and therefore that job didn't last long.

If I'm not actually wanted in the workforce, then I'm not all that inclined to try to find some way by which I can sneak back into it. My point in getting a job would be for personal pride, to feel like I'm contributing to the world. If they don't want the contribution, then fuck 'em. That's society choosing to financially support me rather than accept the help I could give them. We don't live in a society that lets people starve on the street, so I don't have to worry about that.

Of course, people will always say, "You did this to yourself by committing a crime." You can say that all you want. You are still picking up part of the tab for that, in terms of lost productivity, lost tax revenue, etc.; and I feel great satisfaction in reminding myself of that. You deserve it, for the policies you support, that hinder felons from returning back to gainful employment, once they're done serving their time.

Americans love to indulge their righteous indignation at lawbreaking by sending men to prison and barring them from most of the career paths after they get out. But those same taxpayers pay a heavy price for it, as they should. If it makes you feel so good to treat felons that way, and you don't mind having your money go to spend $50K/prisoner-year on incarceration, plus the costs of unemployment and underemployment, then hey, knock yourself out. Keep voting for the tough-on-crime, lock-'em-up policies.

I have a friend who went to prison, then got out and resumed his career as a loan officer, and then got fired because the state instituted a policy that felons can't be loan officers. He ended up going back to crime, and now is making a living selling large amounts of pot (and carrying guns as he does it). That makes me laugh too, because society deserves to see ex-offenders return to crime, when it bars their paths of rehabilitation. You can say that he deserves his fate, but you deserve yours too, my taxpaying friend.

Don't mind me, I just had to rant a little bit, because I get annoyed at people's smug, self-satisfied "Can't do the time, don't do the crime" rhetoric. We're all in this together, because we all have to live in the same world. Then again, I guess deterrence (in addition to incapacitation) is a major consideration that makes people think all this is worth the cost. On the other hand, other countries don't feel the need to treat ex-offenders this way in order to keep their crime rates low.

MikeCF is right that the federal system is completely different from state court. In federal court, they don't tend to overcharge you and then drop charges the way the state courts do. They're also really big on apologies and remorse.

The way the plea deals seem to work is that you and the prosecutor agree to manipulate the facts in such a way that you end up at a certain level in the sentencing guidelines. There's a book, Busted by the Feds, that a lot of guys swear by.

Post: #15

(06-24-2017 12:07 AM)Jean Valjean Wrote:  I entered the federal system in 2008, served 14 months behind bars, then spent 6 months on the outside, then served another 22 months behind bars, then spent another 6 months on the outside, and then served another 10 months behind bars. Then I was done.

Jean Valjean,

Your neutral (in reality negative) reputation under your profile is longer than any other other member on RVF i have ever come across. More guys have called you out for your posts on RVF than anyone else. You are now necroposting a 5 year old thread from 2012 to tell us about your supposed jail time, with a massive wall of text, probably because you know no one will click on such a thread anymore if they see you are the OP.

I just have 1 question for you:
Are you ever going to meet a vetted and respected RVF member in real life who will vouch for you and all your really far fetched (and very trollish) stories ?
Unless that happens no one is going to ever take you seriously anymore.


...

Post: #16

Where does he live? I'd kick it. I'm obviously not vetted though

Post: #17

I love it when people use the term "served (x) months/years" when talking about jail time, as if it were in the same field as "serving your community" or "serving your country".

JV: How many years did you serve?
Marine: 6 years in Iraq. You?
JV: Two years in San Quentin.

Post: #18

(06-24-2017 12:07 AM)Jean Valjean Wrote:  I have a friend who went to prison, then got out and resumed his career as a loan officer, and then got fired because the state instituted a policy that felons can't be loan officers. He ended up going back to crime, and now is making a living selling large amounts of pot (and carrying guns as he does it).

In that case, it's good news that the state introduced a law preventing criminal types like that from being loan officers.

Post: #19

You're a funny guy Jean

Post: #20

Just checking to make sure you registered at the local police station Jean Valjean. I thought guys with your type of crimes weren't supposed to have computers.

Post: #21

Jean is like scarface. They both were heavily involved in crime and married prostitutes. In all seriousness you can't claim to be divorce raped by a prostitute and then never post about it again.

Post: #22

(06-24-2017 12:34 PM)Number one bummer Wrote:  Jean is like scarface. They both were heavily involved in crime and married prostitutes. In all seriousness you can't claim to be divorce raped by a prostitute and then never post about it again.

He just did post about it. He talked about women that wouldn't follow along with "entrepreneurial" vision.

Post: #23

Fuck ! This guy bring real value that enlight my day each time I read one of his posts and the turmoil it brings, this is so funny I might make a book out of his comments !

(06-24-2017 12:07 AM)Jean Valjean Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 02:38 PM)Arcais Wrote:  Has anyone ever faced a jail sentence or gotten charged with a felony?

What did you do after the whole thing was over?

Necroposting since this is bound to continue being a relevant topic for many, given that 8.6% of the adult population has a felony conviction.

I entered the federal system in 2008, served 14 months behind bars, then spent 6 months on the outside, then served another 22 months behind bars, then spent another 6 months on the outside, and then served another 10 months behind bars. Then I was done.

I've noticed this seems to be a pretty common type of pattern in the federal system. A lot of people get busted for supervised release violations, especially if they use drugs, and end up spending a lot more time in prison than what they originally got sentenced to. These days, the probationary restrictions tend to be pretty onerous, and therefore a lot of guys decide to say "fuck you" to U.S. Probation and go back behind bars rather than deal with all the hassles.

After my sentence was completely over, I had a marriage that ended up failing partly because of a flawed premise that my wife and I could start a business together that was going to make us rich (or at least make a meaningful contribution to society). Unfortunately, I repeated that same mistake with my second wife before I finally figured out, girls who perceive themselves to be a weak negotiating position will often compensate by seeming to go along with whatever plans you suggest, but they won't actually follow through with it; in the end, women expect men to take care of them.

When I first started job-hunting after prison, I spun my wheels for about six months applying at pretty much every retail and restaurant job I could think of. Meanwhile, I was also working at an unpaid computer repair internship. Eventually, my boss told me that the internship wasn't going to lead to a paying job (partly because that whole industry is shrinking, as computers get ever cheaper to simply replace when they break).

I also found out that, even in the retail and restaurant fields, if you're trying to get a job, you need to present yourself as the ideal candidate. That means coming up with a fake employment history and career goals that match what they would be looking for. Once I started doing that, I started getting offers, but then I realized that if I didn't mind falsifying my history, I might as well go back into accounting, where I could be making twice as much money as in retail.

So, I went back into accounting, and worked in that field for a year before my employer found out I'd been in prison, and let me go because I'd falsified my job application. I then worked a couple of temp gigs, and it wasn't long after that, that due to my political activities, my past ended up being splashed across the regional media, which pretty much blew my cover in the local accounting community.

(One might say, I should've kept a lower profile, but I think the direction I was headed in was a life similar to this anyway. As time has gone on, I've concluded more and more that it doesn't really matter all that much what you do; society is divided into the givers and the takers (or the providers and the moochers, or the producers and the looters, or whatever you want to call them), and when you leave one of those classes, all it means is that you end up in the other. It seems to be becoming harder and harder to leave a meaningful legacy.)

So, next I was going to try to get back into programming, but that didn't pan out, because all the skilled programmers are busy with paying work, and don't have time for entrepreneurial projects. So at this point I'm mostly just hanging around. It seems as though at 36, my life is over. But then again, it seems like our civilization too is on a decline that will likely end in its collapse before it changes its ways, so I'm not sure it really matters.

There are some who have bounced back from a felony conviction by working for a family business or getting into the blue collar trades. I could give it a try, theoretically, but it's not like I know anyone in those trades. The last time I researched, it seemed like the process for getting into those trades isn't as straightforward in my state as it is in some other states.

I was going to apply for SSDI, but it turns out that if you've been out of work for five of the past ten years, lawyers typically won't want to take your case. I hadn't realized that. I'm at a point now of wondering, what is really the point of participating in this society as a productive worker; what is the benefit? What's the prize that I can get? It seems like the available women these days are arrogant, uncooperative, and hard to please. Even when I had a job, it's like I was never making enough to meet the standard.

I seem to remember that, when I was a teenager working retail, or washing dishes in the back of a restaurant, there was usually at least one tattooed, snaggletoothed 45-year-old guy hanging around who said he was just there because his felony kept him from doing any other job. A lot of those guys didn't last long before getting fired for one reason or another.

I could try to go into those fields, but the fact is, companies typically don't actually want felons working for them. It puts them at risk of legal liability. There was only one instance when someone knew about the felony and hired me anyway. I started telling him about it during the hiring process and he interrupted me and said, "You don't have to tell me about that." It was a seasonal tax gig at a place that had very slow business that year (probably because more people are doing their own taxes these days) and therefore that job didn't last long.

If I'm not actually wanted in the workforce, then I'm not all that inclined to try to find some way by which I can sneak back into it. My point in getting a job would be for personal pride, to feel like I'm contributing to the world. If they don't want the contribution, then fuck 'em. That's society choosing to financially support me rather than accept the help I could give them. We don't live in a society that lets people starve on the street, so I don't have to worry about that.

Of course, people will always say, "You did this to yourself by committing a crime." You can say that all you want. You are still picking up part of the tab for that, in terms of lost productivity, lost tax revenue, etc.; and I feel great satisfaction in reminding myself of that. You deserve it, for the policies you support, that hinder felons from returning back to gainful employment, once they're done serving their time.

Americans love to indulge their righteous indignation at lawbreaking by sending men to prison and barring them from most of the career paths after they get out. But those same taxpayers pay a heavy price for it, as they should. If it makes you feel so good to treat felons that way, and you don't mind having your money go to spend $50K/prisoner-year on incarceration, plus the costs of unemployment and underemployment, then hey, knock yourself out. Keep voting for the tough-on-crime, lock-'em-up policies.

I have a friend who went to prison, then got out and resumed his career as a loan officer, and then got fired because the state instituted a policy that felons can't be loan officers. He ended up going back to crime, and now is making a living selling large amounts of pot (and carrying guns as he does it). That makes me laugh too, because society deserves to see ex-offenders return to crime, when it bars their paths of rehabilitation. You can say that he deserves his fate, but you deserve yours too, my taxpaying friend.

Don't mind me, I just had to rant a little bit, because I get annoyed at people's smug, self-satisfied "Can't do the time, don't do the crime" rhetoric. We're all in this together, because we all have to live in the same world. Then again, I guess deterrence (in addition to incapacitation) is a major consideration that makes people think all this is worth the cost. On the other hand, other countries don't feel the need to treat ex-offenders this way in order to keep their crime rates low.

MikeCF is right that the federal system is completely different from state court. In federal court, they don't tend to overcharge you and then drop charges the way the state courts do. They're also really big on apologies and remorse.

The way the plea deals seem to work is that you and the prosecutor agree to manipulate the facts in such a way that you end up at a certain level in the sentencing guidelines. There's a book, Busted by the Feds, that a lot of guys swear by.

Me laughing while reading this, Thx JV

Post: #24

I've known several guys over the years that would tell outlandish lies. Used to be in the air force reserves as a test pilot, while also working the same crappy job as me at age 21, used to race corvettes and beat them with their 80's four cylinder compact pickup, that kind of thing.

I saw it in school growing up, then in the workplace over the years. It stands to reason these guys would gravitate towards internet forums now. NASA Test Pilot was obviously of this type.

I suppose its the same kind of thing as the old tradition of telling tall tales like Paul Bunyan, or saying the fish you caught was bigger than it really was, or saying you fucked a hottie when in reality you only fingered a fattie.

At some point you recognize the pattern, then you believe anything they say, as long as its independently verified by a reliable source.

Post: #25

The only thing good about this thread is that Mike once dropped some wisdom back in the day.