(05-29-2017 10:57 AM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  Like I just mentioned in the Ethereum thread, the Google Trends analysis for "buy bitcoin" shows that searches for the phrase just peaked at all-time highs this past Thursday the 25th.

Assuming this is new money looking for how to buy, those people are going to need to sign up for exchanges, wait for identity verification, connect a bank account, wire fiat to the exchanges, etc., and that can all take days or weeks (especially if you're something of a whale and need to submit additional personal information to increase your buy/sell limits as well). Plus we're just wrapping up a holiday weekend in the States, so any bank wires that were sent off last Thursday or Friday probably won't be available until later this week.

While I'm a bit worried the bubble just popped and we're in the middle of the dead cat bounce right now, I'm cautiously optimistic that we still have room to grow. I'm not buying any more BTC at the moment, and I have stop losses in place, but I'm excited to see what the next few weeks might bring.

Hey Isaac:

From your parallel post in the ETH thread you seem to remain a bit more bullish about ETH than bitcoin, which certainly is within the range of reasonable - even though I do not come to those same conclusions. Funny thing is that in the past couple months bitcoin pumped about 3x - from $890 to $2760, and several of the alts pumped at magnitudes similar to BTC or even approaching 100x. In essences, a lot of variation with the alts; however, when everyone corrected together, the magnitude of the correction has been very similar. There can be a variety of explanations for that and even reasonable inferences drawn from that, even coming to differing conclusions about what is going to happen next.. whether there is going to be growth and decline together in the near term or some coins may diverge a bit in one direction or another.

Regarding bitcoin specifically, I am a bit torn. I think that the longer that we stay in the consolidation range, then the more likely that the next break will be down; however, I do think that it is too early to call down as being the most likely direction... as you suggest with your preliminary dead cat bounce assessment.

So, it seems that our current range remains quite broad, and I would put it at about $1,950 and $2,350 --- therefore w are kind of at the top of the range, as I am typing.

I think that breaking upwards means more upwards and breaking downwards means more downwards... but yeah, the story does not stop there. Because we could witness breaking out of the range, and then returning to the range which could cause the range to change at that point.

I remain slightly more inclined towards up than down, but at this point, my assessment is only slightly - and maybe that is because we are currently bouncing around at the top of the range?

Regarding your description that the bubble may have just popped, it seems to me that the up had been gradual, gradual, gradual until about $2k, and the suddenly the last couple of days before $2760 was no longer gradual - that was a run-up on increasing volume and really a test of high points and new ATH's.. Accordingly, seems quite premature to refer to the whole situation as a bubble popping one (especially with the ongoing volume and remaining up), and seems like we are going to get another test at the top.. whether we only make the test to $2600 this time or if we again get to testing those $2760 prices.

(05-29-2017 01:57 PM)Armogan Wrote:  .005BTC just for fees, wow that's a lot.

What's even the point anymore, just wire yourself money - faster and cheaper.

Are you referring to me?

If so, add a zero .005 BTC is .0005 BTC. which is about $1..

The transaction amount on that particular one was a few days ago about .625 BTC at about $2500 per BTC or a bit more than $1,500 - about .07%.

Sure, I used to pay 1/3 the fee, but the fee recommendation had gone up.

Also, you know too that bitcoin is not only about saving money on fees. There is still a point to bitcoin besides saving money on fees.

(05-29-2017 10:57 AM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  Like I just mentioned in the Ethereum thread, the Google Trends analysis for "buy bitcoin" shows that searches for the phrase just peaked at all-time highs this past Thursday the 25th.

Assuming this is new money looking for how to buy, those people are going to need to sign up for exchanges, wait for identity verification, connect a bank account, wire fiat to the exchanges, etc., and that can all take days or weeks (especially if you're something of a whale and need to submit additional personal information to increase your buy/sell limits as well). Plus we're just wrapping up a holiday weekend in the States, so any bank wires that were sent off last Thursday or Friday probably won't be available until later this week.

While I'm a bit worried the bubble just popped and we're in the middle of the dead cat bounce right now, I'm cautiously optimistic that we still have room to grow. I'm not buying any more BTC at the moment, and I have stop losses in place, but I'm excited to see what the next few weeks might bring.

Yeah this is true. Guys are still waiting for their money to hit the exchange or they just realized that bitcoin is a thing and now they want some no matter how bad time this is to buy.

They thing is, guys might be buying for a couple of hundred dollars, maybe a grand or maybe two. But there is not many people who will just transfer five-six digits of dollars and buy on market order.

On the contrariety guy who've bought cheap might take this chance and cash out and for some holders that's more than a few hundred dollars. I think this is why the price ain't dropping like a rock. Some newcomers and bulls in denial refuse to admit that the bubble has popped and they keep buying.

Or I might be wrong and the price will shoot up to $28k tomorrow Tuesday.

(05-29-2017 02:10 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  Or I might be wrong and the price will shoot up to $28k tomorrow Tuesday.

We gotta get past $2.8k first, and that would be quite the feat if we were able to shoot up to $2.8k in a day or even in a few days.. that would be very bullish.

Even I would be shocked if prices were to shoot up to $2.8k within a few days (but it is not out of the question, maybe a 20% or so chance of such?)

(05-29-2017 02:17 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:10 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  Or I might be wrong and the price will shoot up to $28k tomorrow Tuesday.

We gotta get past $2.8k first, and that would be quite the feat if we were able to shoot up to $2.8k in a day or even in a few days.. that would be very bullish.

Even I would be shocked if prices were to shoot up to $2.8k within a few days (but it is not out of the question, maybe a 20% or so chance of such?)

Uber-bulls turning rational is probably a sign that the party is over. Everyone is buying bats anyway.

(05-29-2017 03:03 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:17 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:10 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  Or I might be wrong and the price will shoot up to $28k tomorrow Tuesday.

We gotta get past $2.8k first, and that would be quite the feat if we were able to shoot up to $2.8k in a day or even in a few days.. that would be very bullish.

Even I would be shocked if prices were to shoot up to $2.8k within a few days (but it is not out of the question, maybe a 20% or so chance of such?)

Uber-bulls turning rational is probably a sign that the party is over. Everyone is buying bats anyway.

Your comment make no sense.

What uber bulls are converting into rational? What was their previous irrational conduct? What is the evidence of this?

We can take a snapshot at any particular time and have a conversation about what it means or where we are going from that point, or we can selectively chose certain evidence that supports the conclusions that we want to assert - of course, we are captured by our own experiences, so we can never be completely rational, either.

Who are these everyone who are supposedly buying bats? Are you buying bats?

Sure I saw in the other thread that some guys are buying bats, but are they everyone or are they a select group who have looked into the matter and decided to buy some?

I don't even know what the fuck are bats except, possibly the coin da jure.. so, I am not part of the "everyone" and there are only so many hours in a day to make choices about how to spend time. In other words, I am not interested in the coin da jur or whether that is somehow going to affect bitcoin price dynamics in the near term?

OK. Jay is not a part of everyone. Got it.

(05-29-2017 02:01 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I remain slightly more inclined towards up than down, but at this point, my assessment is only slightly - and maybe that is because we are currently bouncing around at the top of the range?

JJG, the main driver behind my Bitcoin predictions is based mainly on technical analysis of the all-time Bitcoin price chart. See this article I've been touting since December as to why I believe we're about to see a bubble pop.

Markets are simply an economic representation of human nature and human decision making. Human nature never changes, and while history might not repeat itself exactly it certainly rhymes.

Bitcoin has a VERY pronounced, very clear and very repetitive pattern which at this point has played itself out five times, with late 2013 through the present marking the sixth cycle.

For anyone who doubts me, PLEASE read the article linked above and tell me why you think this time is different. Until Bitcoin hits mass global adoption, I see no reason as to why this cycle shouldn't continue to play itself out again and again as Bitcoin picks up new users each cycle.

(05-29-2017 04:51 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:01 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I remain slightly more inclined towards up than down, but at this point, my assessment is only slightly - and maybe that is because we are currently bouncing around at the top of the range?

[https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1250/0*LGxP_CS3R5P8goml.[/img]

JJG, the main driver behind my Bitcoin predictions is based mainly on technical analysis of the all-time Bitcoin price chart. See this article I've been touting since December as to why I believe we're about to see a bubble pop.

Yes. I agree that is a great article, and I read it when you first posted it, and I read several other similar kinds of articles, and it is worth repeating, as you have done.

I also understand what you mean by bubble, and I suppose my question to you pertained to where you believe we are at, and the more I think about it, the more I think that we have not quite reached the bubble stage, yet, which is more likely to take place in the $3k to $5k territory.. .. and after this most recent correction, that bubble could go a bit higher, so maybe we are going to have to change the range from $4k to $6k? have to play it by ear.

(05-29-2017 04:51 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  Markets are simply an economic representation of human nature and human decision making. Human nature never changes, and while history might not repeat itself exactly it certainly rhymes.

I agree with that... and I agree about the series of bubbles.. and i don't think that we are there, yet... but time will tell, and I am not even that concerned whether I am right or not because none of us can know with precision, we only can estimate where we are at, even though it will appear more clear after it has taken place.

(05-29-2017 04:51 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  Bitcoin has a VERY pronounced, very clear and very repetitive pattern which at this point has played itself out five times, with late 2013 through the present marking the sixth cycle.

For anyone who doubts me, PLEASE read the article linked above and tell me why you think this time is different. Until Bitcoin hits mass global adoption, I see no reason as to why this cycle shouldn't continue to play itself out again and again as Bitcoin picks up new users each cycle.

Yep. It is likely that bitcoin has several more bubbles in it over the coming years and the networking effects play out, and that is especially more evident when we look at the latest rise from $250 to $2760....

Between $250 and $1,200 over 20 months, we had pretty slow and gradual growth.. .. After breaching that $1200 we have been a bit crazy, but we still have a price increase from $1200 (really $890) to $2760 that took 2 months to play out.


The latest leg of the upsurge from about $2k to $2760 took about 4 days, and in the past few days, we have not really spent much time below $2k.

The more that I consider the matter, the market is continuing to feel too bullish to me, and the more I think about it, up is seeming more and more likely. Sure, maybe I am going from a 52% confidence to about a 60% confidence for up.. but UP is feeling stronger and stronger in my current thinking, and it seems that we just are not ready for further correction or down that is going to last for a few months. Not quite yet.

Though personally, i would not mind another leg of the correction down to $1500 or to $1200 - shake a few weak hands before resuming up. What are the chances of that kind of correction? Probably less than 35% in my current thinking.. but 35% is nothing to sneeze at and I definitely have some fiat available for that kind of correction. On the other hand, if the price goes below $1k, I might start to run out of fiat somewhere at that point and have to make some adjustments for depression. hahahahahaha Who knows? there are frequently ways to make adjustments along the way if needed and if price dynamics seem to be playing out a bit differently than anticipated.

(05-29-2017 05:47 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I also understand what you mean by bubble, and I suppose my question to you pertained to where you believe we are at, and the more I think about it, the more I think that we have not quite reached the bubble stage, yet, which is more likely to take place in the $3k to $5k territory.. .. and after this most recent correction, that bubble could go a bit higher, so maybe we are going to have to change the range from $4k to $6k? have to play it by ear.

What makes using that Medium article/theory so difficult at this point is that those cycles played out so perfectly when (because?) Bitcoin was 90+% of the market.

With the alt-coin explosion, Bitcoin's market dominance has plummeted, but the total market cap chart continues, almost seamlessly, the technical pattern established back when Bitcoin was the only player in town.

Had the alt coin market not appeared in such dramatic fashion, I imagine Bitcoin would already be at $5k or more on its way to $10k+.

But now, Bitcoin has to share all the incoming fiat with Ethereum, Ripple, Dash, etc. So surely money that in the last few cycles would have gone almost entirely into Bitcoin is now being spread among multiple crypto assets, with the likely result that Bitcoin's current leap up will be somewhat restricted, while the crypto market as a whole may instead play out the order-of-magnitude-jump pattern that Bitcoin established so firmly in its life cycle thus far.

(05-29-2017 06:45 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 05:47 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I also understand what you mean by bubble, and I suppose my question to you pertained to where you believe we are at, and the more I think about it, the more I think that we have not quite reached the bubble stage, yet, which is more likely to take place in the $3k to $5k territory.. .. and after this most recent correction, that bubble could go a bit higher, so maybe we are going to have to change the range from $4k to $6k? have to play it by ear.

What makes using that Medium article/theory so difficult at this point is that those cycles played out so perfectly when (because?) Bitcoin was 90+% of the market.

The article merely presents theories. Bitcoin and markets are not math, so they are not going to work out like math, until you look at them after the fact and then you see the pattern. When you ar ein the middle of the pattern, i tis going to be difficult to see and it is also going to be difficult to know if it will play out as pattern x, y or z.. there is not one inevitable path.

(05-29-2017 06:45 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  With the alt-coin explosion, Bitcoin's market dominance has plummeted, but the total market cap chart continues, almost seamlessly, the technical pattern established back when Bitcoin was the only player in town.

That loss of market share is not the ONLY factor, and I think that you are giving too much weight to one factor that could also be a bit of a manipulated factor. So in the end, who cares about the loss of market share factor, especially with considerable BTC price appreciation?

A guy writes a theoretical paper that describes a market phenomenon generally, the pattern of bubble crash, bubble crash, may still might play out and it might not play out exactly as described in the paper or it may take longer in some areas of the curve. Me may not know for sure how it plays out until after the fact and after zooming out, if it played out exactly or what kinds of nuances were contained in the micro version.

It would have been silly to place too much emphasis on one set of facts being set in stone, no? I know that you are not intending to do that, even though you are describing bitcoin as some kind of static and dominant player that supposedly has lost its place in the world.

By the way, before 2014, it was very difficult to short bitcoin, so the only way you could bet was up or to sell what you have, you could not bet against bitcoin unless you already had some bitcoin. Now there are a lot of ways to short bitcoin and there are a lot of other tools available too.

Now, there is also more attention from a variety of governments and financial institutions, too who are capable of employing a large number of means to keep bitcoin down - including that they are contributing to the pouring of money into alts, and part of the reason that they are pouring money into alts is to keep bitcoin down.

(05-29-2017 06:45 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  Had the alt coin market not appeared in such dramatic fashion, I imagine Bitcoin would already be at $5k or more on its way to $10k+.

I don't think that you can fairly and reasonably conclude such a prediction that BTC prices would be have already hit $5k and maybe even $10k were it not for the alts.

In one sense, it is almost like crying over spilled milk and suggesting that there is some kind of zero sum game relationship between bitcoin and alts.

That supposed zero sum game relationship between bitcoin and alts is likely a bad framework for consideration. Sure, there could be some zero sum game aspects, but there is also a symbiotic relationship that is going on that is complex..

The alts and bitcoin feed off of one another in positively correlated ways and they also compete against each other and there also could be some negative ways that they play off each other and some zero sum game aspects as you suggest. There is always a bit of truth in a myth, yet in the end, likely more money is brought into the cryptospace because of the multi-tude of multi-level marketing schemes.

In another sense, some of these multi-level marketing schemes in the alt space could end up imploding upon themselves and also drawing negative attention to bitcoin (will bitcoin be advantaged or disadvantaged by that negative attention is not easy to determine in any kind of simplistic way). I believe that it is not healthy to conclude too much too soon, because we are still in the midst of a lot of this, and sure we can and should have various theories and opinions in order to have a framework for consideration.

(05-29-2017 06:45 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  But now, Bitcoin has to share all the incoming fiat with Ethereum, Ripple, Dash, etc.

You really believe that it is a zero sum game?

(05-29-2017 06:45 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  So surely money that in the last few cycles would have gone almost entirely into Bitcoin is now being spread among multiple crypto assets, with the likely result that Bitcoin's current leap up will be somewhat restricted, while the crypto market as a whole may instead play out the order-of-magnitude-jump pattern that Bitcoin established so firmly in its life cycle thus far.

It is also possible that some of those investors would not have invested in crypto at all, were it not for some of the alts.

It is also possible that if there were not other alts, then regulators and financial institutions would be so focused on bitcoin that they could have undermined it in various ways, but now regulators and financial institutions have thousands of other distractions with these alts and projects to figure out which is worse? and ambiguity? and confusion? and chaos? And wild-west?

All of this crypto space activity is not necessarily a negative for bitcoin, and in the end could cause the explosion of bitcoin to be greater than it would otherwise.

I could give a ratt's ass which of the cryptos prevail because that is such a long term play that I will be dead by the time it happens.. and really even if I am not dead, it does not really matter that much in the shorter term. Each of us just invests in accordance with what we believe is good for us and diversify to the extent that we feel that it suits our own interests and find a system that works for our own particulars.

Seems that there is a lot of money to be made in a lot of these cryptos in various ways, and sure some folks are going to be burned, too by the process. But so much money flowing into the space and we cannot boil effects down into simple formulations regarding what is going to happen or what has happened, can we?

We are in the middle of it, and it is a constantly moving and really dynamic place at this time... fellow early adopter.

I mentioned that a lot of the money that has gone into the alts would have otherwise gone into BTC and BTC would be much higher by now.

I agree though that the new bubble would have to be about $5k. BTC is only double the ATH from years ago and that was with a relatively slow and steady rise. We are yet to reach the euphoria spike wave.

(05-30-2017 12:32 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  I mentioned that a lot of the money that has gone into the alts would have otherwise gone into BTC and BTC would be much higher by now.

I agree though that the new bubble would have to be about $5k. BTC is only double the ATH from years ago and that was with a relatively slow and steady rise. We are yet to reach the euphoria spike wave.

If we can refer to your paragraphs above as point 1 and point 2, they do kind of play on each other, and provide some logical justification that instead of projecting this likely imminent and upward leg of $3k to $5k, and we may need to revise the imminent and upward leg and maybe $4k to $6k is not enough.. start thinking $5k to $8k.. and there seems to be enough fuel for such exponential upwards expectations.

I am not going to take drastic moves to bank on such exponential upwards expectations because I consider those kinds of exponential upwards movements, if they were to occur, to be icing on my BTC investment cake, but maybe instead of projecting to sell 4% of my for every 10% rise in price during such $4k to $5k window, I will reduce my selling down to 2% for every 10% rise in BTC price in that range, and then increase to selling 3% or 4% for every 10% rise during the $5k to $8k price arena.

Currently, at today's price (and in the past $890 to $2760 price rise) I have still only been selling about 1% of my BTC holdings for every 10% rise in BTC price.

I do genuinely think that the altcoin pump money would have otherwise gone into BTC and we're seeing a far smaller rise in BTC as a result. Nonetheless, I believe that anywhere from $4k-$10k is possible, that is, if the euphoria spike wave occurs, simply based on BTC's past. BTC has only just gone past the ATH at a fairly steady but not exponential pace. That is the pace one would be waiting for.

I am still looking for alts to be dumped properly and that has not occurred yet.

Right now there are hundreds of alts, but are most of them going to even survive?

Are we going to see an expansion in the number of altcoins in the crypto sphere, or are we going to see consolidation into the best few cryptos (BTC, ETH, ___....) while most alts get killed off?

After waiting days for Coinbase to get their shit together (as well as signing up on other sites while waiting), I was finally able to add my Visa card to my account and allowed to buy. For an earth shattering $200 CAD limit per week. Is this a joke? Unfortunately the other traders I signed up for are still processing my verification. But ff sakes thats absolutely pathetic. I do not recommend those shit wipes.

(05-30-2017 03:22 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  I do genuinely think that the altcoin pump money would have otherwise gone into BTC and we're seeing a far smaller rise in BTC as a result.

There no real way that I can assert that my conclusion on this point is any better than your conclusion, yet I still wonder exactly what the evidence is for your conclusion - beyond just having a hunch? and the same with me. Of course, we just make these kinds of conclusions based on the totality that we know, but we cannot really know, exactly what would have happened if x rather than y, can we?

It is not an unimportant question because sometimes having a decent theory about the reason for something or the causation will assist us in predicting various future possibilities, what is more likely, and maybe we do need to account for the fact that our particular theory of causation (how we got to where we are) may be incorrect.

So, maybe in that regard, we attempt to prepare for both scenarios, the possibility that we are right and the possibility that we are not and whether that makes any difference in how we prepare?

I personally don't deviate too much from my plan based on whether I am a little more bullish or a little more bearish, and I just tweak on the margins and if I am feeling more bullish instead of selling 1 BTC, I might chose to sell .9 or .8. That is a 10 or 20% change in what I was already planning to do. I usually don't go really drastic in my plan such as selling .5 or even not selling, because usually when I do (I have in the past), then I just become stressed out, and it causes me a bunch of work that does not tend to pay off, and I end up reverting back to some variation of my original plan. So usually it has been better for me to just tweak a bit here and there, which might be a 10% or 20% change, rather than taking drastic measures of 50% or more.

(05-30-2017 03:22 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  Nonetheless, I believe that anywhere from $4k-$10k is possible, that is, if the euphoria spike wave occurs, simply based on BTC's past. BTC has only just gone past the ATH at a fairly steady but not exponential pace. That is the pace one would be waiting for.

Actually, this kind of transformation is kind of taking place in my thinking too. Previously, I had thought that a rise to $3k to $5k was going to be exponential and outrageous (like in the past), but as you say, this exponential and outrageous phase has not quite occurred - actually if it had gone straight up in this last run (without the correction back down from $2,760 to $1,850), I was going to be thinking that the exponential rise had come - however, now, with both the combination of the recent correction coupled with this pumping of the crypto space with fuel - the pump possibilities are looking much more grand than $3k to $5k..

My GF would call me greedy when I am talking like this; however, this is not a question about what I want or what I am aiming for, it is a question of attempting to figure out what is more likely to happen based on past events and current dynamics, and therefore $10k is not seeming so outrageous or pie in the sky.

Some people will assert that if you believe $10k to be reasonably possible - let's give it a 30% chance in the next year, then why don't you bet more on that, such as taking funds from somewhere else and dedicating it to bitcoin, and that is just not my style. I already made my investment over the past 3.5 years, and I continue to invest on a regular basis, so even if I am changing my views about possibilities, it does not cause me to take extreme measures to invest more but instead I might cash out a bit less along the way... in other words, tweak my plans on the margins based on changes in my perspective.

(05-30-2017 03:22 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  I am still looking for alts to be dumped properly and that has not occurred yet.

The pump of alts is a great question of speculation, and it could occur for much longer than the pump of bitcoin - or some tragic event could happen in the alts, such as some major security breaches or scams that cause investors to realize the extensive smoke and mirrors going on in that space.

I personally am way too conservative with my money, and I am doing so well in bitcoin that I don't really feel any need to spread my assets or time in any thinner way.

Many of those assets are vulnerable to scams and to hacks, but none of that seems to matter at the moment, and the pump of the alts could outperform bitcoin for quite a time into the future, but I personally am not going to worry my sweet little head about that because I think that I have my hands full enough just with my BTC investment and keeping this volatile BTC investment in a fairly solid place for myself, including securing my coins... and things like that just come up on an ongoing basis.

(05-30-2017 03:31 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  Right now there are hundreds of alts, but are most of them going to even survive?

Are we going to see an expansion in the number of altcoins in the crypto sphere, or are we going to see consolidation into the best few cryptos (BTC, ETH, ___....) while most alts get killed off?

The thousand BTC question remains regarding how long that is going to take?

Could take 6 months. Could take more than a year, right? I am not holding my breath, even though I agree with your ultimate conclusion, because there are a lot of smoke and mirror jobs in the crypto space, and which cryptos are going to come out unscathed, might be few - and even some of the more prominent ones, including bitcoin could be damaged by some of the fall out that is likely to occur.

(05-30-2017 04:02 AM)Kdog Wrote:  After waiting days for Coinbase to get their shit together (as well as signing up on other sites while waiting), I was finally able to add my Visa card to my account and allowed to buy. For an earth shattering $200 CAD limit per week. Is this a joke? Unfortunately the other traders I signed up for are still processing my verification. But ff sakes thats absolutely pathetic. I do not recommend those shit wipes.

Many of the exchanges are overwhelmed by new members. Coinbase is one of those that is worldwide and likely their support is not keeping up with the new onslaught of demand.


This is a very intense period right now for a lot of exchanges to grow with the demand, and even finding someone on the street who will sell you BTC might not be easy.

Generally, however, you should be able to find someone through local bitcoins or even through craigslist or through a local bitcoin meet up who might work out some kind of direct personal relationship with you to sell to you in cash on a regular basis until you get your other accounts verified.

You could set up a blockchain.info wallet to have for direct transactions.

This reditt thread and article has a lot of good links within in it, which outlines a very decent way forward for scaling bitcoin, coming from Adam Back, describing several stages and several very innovative features that are likely to be incorporated into bitcoin in the coming years.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comment...g_bitcoin/

What type of fees are you guys paying? I want to begin averaging in but I am struggling to find fees I consider acceptable.

I see where people talk about fees to send as well. Is there a good place for a beginner yet in depth tutorial? The rabbit hole goes so deep it's hard to get a good understanding of all of this.

This thread has some good info but it's too cluttered.

If you're talking about sending fees, I suggest checking out this link:

https://bitcoinfees.21.co/

(05-30-2017 04:03 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  What type of fees are you guys paying? I want to begin averaging in but I am struggling to find fees I consider acceptable.

Where are you? Partly, the options are going to depend upon where you are.

Which exchanges and/or methods to obtain bitcoin have you tried so far?

(05-30-2017 04:03 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  I see where people talk about fees to send as well. Is there a good place for a beginner yet in depth tutorial? The rabbit hole goes so deep it's hard to get a good understanding of all of this.

This thread has some good info but it's too cluttered.

In the beginning, almost any source will be good, and most exchanges have FAQs and beginner introductions.

Also just googling bitcoin can get you all kinds of information, and you likely have done that already, no?

Certainly, you can interact with this thread to make the information more meaningful to your particular situation, and even post basic questions that come up in the context of your looking into the matter, whether that is initially buying or attempting to trade.

One of the first things that you need to do, for yourself, is just consider how much you are going to dedicate in terms of your own finances and what is your time line.

For example, when I started in late 2013, my initial plan was to invest for 6 months and then to reconsider the situation after six months and during those six months to look further into the matter. You are right that it can take quite a bit of time to learn basics, and I still am learning new things about bitcoin on a regular basis.

^^ Thanks. I have read a decent amount but I am a careful person. I may stick with coinbase for now and slowly figure it out. Coinbase seems the easiest. I am in no rush to throw a ton of money in it anyway, not at these prices.

(05-30-2017 09:58 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  ^^ Thanks. I have read a decent amount but I am a careful person. I may stick with coinbase for now and slowly figure it out. Coinable seems the easiest. I am in no rush to throw a ton of money in it anyway, not at these prices.

I definitely understand being conservative with money, and that tends to be my overall strategy.

I understand and agree that coinbase is fairly easy.. but the fees are a bit much (I think around 1.5%, right?) - but that level of fees may be acceptable, too - if you are looking for somewhat hassle free.

Just for your info, if you already have access to a Coinbase account, then I would recommend also setting up a GDAX account (they are the same company that is just divided into two). You can send money to GDAX, and pretty much avoid fees, as long as you have patience and you set up maker buy orders (rather than taker orders). The site explains the difference between maker fees and taker fees.

Another option is Gemini. Gemini allows you to send $500 per day, and to have immediate access to the money for trading purposes. Trading on Gemini is about .25%, but you will not be able to withdraw that new money that you deposited on Gemini until it has cleared from your bank (about a week).

In any event, given the recent exponential attention that is going towards crypto currencies these days, a lot of these accounts are taking a while to set up, so I would suggest setting up the accounts in order that they are ready to go, even if you do not use them for many months. Accordingly, it is better to have options rather than not, and several guys have already expressed frustration with some of the exchanges, but some of the frustration comes from attempting to rush something that cannot be rushed (and that is getting your accounts set up and verified and even getting some of the credit limits increased. Some of that takes time - weeks and even months in some cases, depending on what you want to do, whether your credentials are easy to verify and how much backed up the exchanges are).