Post: #151

As black men, we really have to shake that learned helplessness bullshit that the media reinforces.

I see it everywhere; I saw it in myself for a while and I see it on the forum, especially from other black dudes. Sure, some countries aren't going to be perfect for us, but let's show up and let's make the best of it.

So far I've been to HK, Taiwan, China and Vietnam.

I've only spent longer a few days in all those spots other than China, but I didn't feel like people were hating all that much. I think Asians are reasonably friendly people and I think we can do well in these places if we are patient and learn a bit about the culture.

Sure, we got dealt a raw hand with how politics played out, but there is still so much we can do abroad. We don't have to just stay in USA or Europe.

The world's changing and it's best to ride the tide to new spots and check em out. My next destination? Who knows, I'm literally just gonna book the fucking ticket and not read any forum stuff. I just wanna go and see what's there and what I can do. I might have a miserable time or a great time but at least I'm gonna show up.

Don't let tinder dictate where you're gonna go.

Post: #152

I don't think black dudes are at a disadvantage online or in real life. Wear tailored suits and watch girls turn into mush.

Do you think Ozwald Boateng would have any trouble if he was on Tinder?

Post: #153

(05-19-2017 10:12 AM)Fortis Wrote:  As black men, we really have to shake that learned helplessness bullshit that the media reinforces.

I see it everywhere; I saw it in myself for a while and I see it on the forum, especially from other black dudes. Sure, some countries aren't going to be perfect for us, but let's show up and let's make the best of it.

Don't let tinder dictate where you're gonna go.

Where theres a will theres a way and we brothers can't forget that. It might be harder for US but things are DOABLE. I sure as hell ain't giving up.

(05-19-2017 11:33 AM)captain_shane Wrote:  I don't think black dudes are at a disadvantage online or in real life. Wear tailored suits and watch girls turn into mush.

Do you think Ozwald Boateng would have any trouble if he was on Tinder?

The first step to overcoming challenges is not to ignore them but to respect they exist and do your best to overcome them.

There so much data out there that suggests we are at a disadvantage online and you are gonna just say suit up and be confident and everything will be ok. So in short yes I would think he'll have trouble on Tinder.

Post: #154

Lol, debating whether challenges exists that are specifically germane to a certain group of folks with other folks is pointless. It's like me telling a woman "I don't think childbirth is all that painful." I don't even know why this topic keeps resurfacing. This is widely known among our peers and should, if at all, be discussed in the Roundtable topic.

Post: #155

(05-19-2017 01:41 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

(05-19-2017 10:12 AM)Fortis Wrote:  As black men, we really have to shake that learned helplessness bullshit that the media reinforces.

I see it everywhere; I saw it in myself for a while and I see it on the forum, especially from other black dudes. Sure, some countries aren't going to be perfect for us, but let's show up and let's make the best of it.

Don't let tinder dictate where you're gonna go.

Where theres a will theres a way and we brothers can't forget that. It might be harder for US but things are DOABLE. I sure as hell ain't giving up.

(05-19-2017 11:33 AM)captain_shane Wrote:  I don't think black dudes are at a disadvantage online or in real life. Wear tailored suits and watch girls turn into mush.

Do you think Ozwald Boateng would have any trouble if he was on Tinder?

The first step to overcoming challenges is not to ignore them but to respect they exist and do your best to overcome them.

There so much data out there that suggests we are at a disadvantage online and you are gonna just say suit up and be confident and everything will be ok. So in short yes I would think he'll have trouble on Tinder.

What exactly are the challenges beside perception from things like movies and tv shows where black people are often portrayed as criminals? Do some girls think dark skin is gross? Yes, but why would you want to fuck those girls?

Quote:we really have to shake that learned helplessness bullshit that the media reinforces.

I 100% agree with Fortis here, and believe a lot of these things are fucking toxic to bring up and reinforce. Short guys, black guys, indian guys, fat guys, skinny guys, poor guys, everyone has something to bitch about. Everyone wants a reason why they aren't getting what they want.

If you really believe Ozwald Boateng would have trouble on tinder because he's black, you need to get your inner game worked out big time.

95% of all guys have trouble on Tinder getting anything above a 4-5. White people aren't slaying pussy of any quality online anymore than blacks, or asians, or anyone else. Why even try as a male?


-------



Do you think that white guy is getting more responses than the black dude? If so, you have a victim mentality.

----









Do you think any of those guys would have a tough time online? Sure maybe the black guy gets 2 less matches than the white guy, and the indian guy gets 3 less matches than the black guy, ect. The fact is they are all getting far more matches than the regular guy.

Post: #156

I almost ALMOST sat down and typed out a whole response to that. But then something hit my head.. I mean it couldn't be a black dude coming on here typing out things like that.... it just couldn't be.

Sure enough.... Profile says.. Race: White.

Do you have any other information as how to be a successful black man? I'd love to read your data and findings. Seems like you are an expert on it.

Post: #157

(05-19-2017 04:05 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  I almost ALMOST sat down and typed out a whole response to that. But then something hit my head.. I mean it couldn't be a black dude coming on here typing out things like that.... it just couldn't be.

Sure enough.... Profile says.. Race: White.

Do you have any other information as how to be a successful black man? I'd love to read your data and findings. Seems like you are an expert on it.

I'm not going to comment anymore or I'll get banned.

Any dudes that want to improve stick to listening to Fortis. This guy isn't any better than the IRT's that come on here complaining about being brown.

Post: #158

Brother kirdiesel, I have no idea why you even bother, lol. Did you expect him to magically be able to see things from a perspective he's never had to and say "Aw I get it" or to continue to see the world through the lenses he was born with.
















Let this bullshit topic die.

Post: #159

I'm gonna take a different stance here, Shane is trying to be constructive. Let's look at his intent.

We can't say "the world doesn't like us!" and then turn around and be dismissive of other groups who might come in with suggestions.

Just my two cents. While I think Shane is slightly off the mark on some things he said, I don't think he was trying to be malicious or anything.

Generally, Id say that in many asian countries that darker skin is thought of as just plain uglier than white skin. It's encoded into the cultures. IT's a challenge to overcome it sometimes but not much you can do about it. That said, if a woman cares that much about that shit, she's probably not for you.

Post: #160

I generally dont question at all the intent of the white guys in these threads. I dont think there is intentional ignorance or malice. Its just the organic arrogance of being part of the majority makes you think your insights are universal. Some of them are, but many are not, and no matter what, much of the advice you may have is fundamentally flawed.

Mostly from the lack of nuanced perspective that comes with decades of experiencing social interactions with people who view you as (more) dangerous, undesirable, inferior, or foreign than what they're accustomed to. Which influences almost all aspects of an interaction, in most cases, whether by a small or large amount.

All black guys dont have good insights either. Plenty of brothas clueless on game. But at least they are speaking the same language. You guys aren't even playing the same sport. There's nothing you can tell us that isn't either wrong, inapplicable, or that we don't already know. Sooner this is accepted and internalized, the more productive everyone's time will be spent.

Obviously this is in reference to non-black chicks, since that seems to be the subject.

Post: #161

Well lucky for us, there are many other ways to meet women.

I am not at a disadvantage offline.

Captain_Shane - I am sure you meant well, but what you wrote is laughable to me.

Post: #162

(05-19-2017 11:33 AM)captain_shane Wrote:  I don't think black dudes are at a disadvantage online or in real life.

Ummm, yeah, they are :

(05-19-2017 11:33 AM)captain_shane Wrote:  Do you think Ozwald Boateng would have any trouble if he was on Tinder?

He would. I know lighter black guys on the better looking side of him that struggle to pull anything other than obese cunts on tinder.

Quote: What exactly are the challenges beside perception from things like movies and tv shows where black people are often portrayed as criminals? Do some girls think dark skin is gross? Yes, but why would you want to fuck those girls?

I don't know why black guys are at disadvantage with the majority of non-black women. Just that the disadvantage exists. It could be something societal, but at the same time, it might be something racial. If the former, than it is something that could likely correct itself overtime. If the latter, than at this point, there's literally nothing anyone can do about it.

Quote:95% of all guys have trouble on Tinder

Yes, it is true that tinder is absolute cancer, and despite it's obvious decline, white guys are still doing better.

Post: #163

I know some others would rather not bite or feel they lack the time to do so, but I thought I would throw two cents in here as I feel a couple of things need saying.

(05-19-2017 11:33 AM)captain_shane Wrote:  I don't think black dudes are at a disadvantage online or in real life.

They are. There is actual empirical data that establishes this quite clearly (user ziggystardust helpfully posted some just now), and there are legions of empirical observations that do the same.

Quote:Wear tailored suits and watch girls turn into mush.

1. This is not the guarantor of race-neutral outcomes you're making it out to be. It has not been my experience or that of many I know that a tailored suit is an automatic fix or a substantial mitigator of many of the challenges being contemplated in this thread.

2. Even if it were, it'd be no foil to the argument at hand. The claim is that there is a disadvantage. If one group of men has to turn to tailored suits in order to watch girls turn to mush and another can do so with or without the tailored suit, the point has already been made.

Quote:Do you think Ozwald Boateng would have any trouble if he was on Tinder?

Yes.

(05-19-2017 03:20 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  What exactly are the challenges beside perception from things like movies and tv shows where black people are often portrayed as criminals?

There is still a very strong stigma attached to relationships involving black men and non-black (especially white) women. Such unions still make many people very uncomfortable, and invite the attachment of many negative stereotypes/characterizations to the women who engage in them. Women are aware of this, and this can cause apprehension among them even when there is attraction. That raises the bar for any black male attempting to engage them - more work is necessary to overcome the gravity of the taboo.

There is also a tendency for these stereotypes and stigmas associated with black men to create certain expectations of their behavior and conduct. Adherence to these limitations can be challenging and draining, as well as generally unsatisfying for the male in question. That too has implications for game and success rates.

It should be noted that these are factors that vary widely by locale. While there is no utopia absolutely free of any challenge for any man of any ethnicity, many black men (quite a few of whom are on this forum) have found that the stigmas/taboo I mentioned just now are not as pronounced in some other parts of the world as they are in the United States, and the expectations for behavior/conduct are more limited so as to allow for one to more freely be who they are without the concern that doing so might undermine their romantic success (as it might in a place where the expectations are more firm). This is important information for a man to take into account at all times as it can inform which locales are worth visiting and which women are most worth pursuing.

Quote:Do some girls think dark skin is gross? Yes, but why would you want to fuck those girls?

If you find that many of those women are quite physically attractive to you, it is not going to be pleasing to hear that quite a few of them are instantly averse to your appearance. It is inevitable that there will be at least one woman who feels that way in any location, but if you are in a place where such a mentality is relatively common, it will inevitably have an impact that one will naturally seek to mitigate - saying "well, you wouldn't want those girls anyway" doesn't carry much weight when "those girls" are common enough in your location to substantially limit your options in the event that they were taken out of the equation. These places do exist, and men need to be aware of them in order to put forward the best possible response and maximize their success. Information is power, and ignoring the problem and simply refusing to discuss it (as seems to be your preference) is not a path to success.

Quote:

Quote:we really have to shake that learned helplessness bullshit that the media reinforces.

I 100% agree with Fortis here, and believe a lot of these things are fucking toxic to bring up and reinforce. Short guys, black guys, indian guys, fat guys, skinny guys, poor guys, everyone has something to bitch about. Everyone wants a reason why they aren't getting what they want.

[/quote]

Fortis has made it clear that the heightened challenges associated with gaming as a black male in many parts of the world are not figments of the imagination. He posed a workable solution and approach to engaging those challenges. I did not see him at any point question that said challenges exist, as you have.

Quote:If you really believe Ozwald Boateng would have trouble on tinder because he's black, you need to get your inner game worked out big time.

No, all you really need is experience. Many of us here have this. The men on this forum making statements like this have had the chance to see, via first and second-hand experience, these dynamics in action. Their opinion on Boateng is formed by years of experience. You should remember that before you dismiss said opinions out of hand and instead suggest that they merely go and "fix their inner game". Such a point of view is not only needlessly pedantic (the individuals in question are old enough and have been involved in the game long enough to have been well clear of the rudimentary inner game obstacles you're imputing to them here.

Quote:Do you think that white guy is getting more responses than the black dude? If so, you have a victim mentality.

It isn't implausible. I've seen similar occurrences with my own eyes.

That's not a victim mentality. That is merely a statement of fact in line with lived, learned observation both of my own life and those around me.

Quote:Do you think any of those guys would have a tough time online?

Yes. Again, lived, learned observation. I've watched many objectively good looking men struggle online in the way that is being suggested. Good looks are not as conducive to race-neutral outcomes as you are implying. That has not been my observation or that of many of the other men I have known.

If you want to explore more first hand accounts of what I'm discussing, feel free to check out the "Black Man Game Options" roundtable thread. This topic has been discussed quite extensively there, as well as in the "Black American Travel" thread over in the travel sub-forum. There are also specific posts and other sources elsewhere online that I can reference at your request.

(05-20-2017 02:04 PM)ziggystardust Wrote:  I don't know why black guys are at disadvantage with the majority of non-black women. Just that the disadvantage exists. It could be something societal, but at the same time, it might be something racial. If the former, than it is something that could likely correct itself overtime. If the latter, than at this point, there's literally nothing anyone can do about it.

The driving factors are at once societal and racial. What we are dealing with are the result of longstanding societal perceptions and constructs that are largely founded on racial stratification and classification, which are themselves based on racial perceptions that have existed even before the formal founding of this nation and have informed its development at every major stage (often being incorporated into the law of the land).

Correction over time does not seem terribly realistic or plausible in anything short of the VERY long term (and even then, I dunno). I'm a pessimistic/cynical bastard so take that into account, but taking my own cynical biases to one side and looking objectively I genuinely don't see a high likelihood of the realities we're discussing disappearing any time soon. They are too fundamental to what the United States of America is.

Post: #164

Excelsior just killed it.

Post: #165

Excellent responses from excelsior, kirdiesel, rudebwoy et al.

This board has many like Captain Shane - well intentioned, but ultimately naive commenters who'd rather have these topics simply buried than discussed openly.

I'm neither white nor black, but I often hear comments from fellow brown dudes that are much like those made by CS.

The purpose behind pointing out the things excelsior so eloquently put forth isn't to bitch and moan about one's race; it is to figure out which avenues are likely to yield the highest ROI and which are likely to be a waste of one's time. Why this is so difficult to grasp for people like CS, I'll never know.

I also think CS didn't post out of malice, but views like his are, unfortunately, quite commonplace. It's a bit baffling, since the kind of hard data that ziggystardust posted is just a Google search away

Post: #166

I feel like white dudes like Captain Shane are basically the equivalent of the female giving you dating advice. She will say just say hi to her. Be confident. Be yourself. etc. Her perspective of the dating world is so foreign to yours that its hard to take any of the advice of hers seriously. Her mind would be blown if she saw what men had to go through. The opposite would happen to if you saw the things women go through.

Post: #167

From our friend at Citizen Renegade:

This is another vindication of a CH tenet: online dating severely restricts the range in which men can display their mate value to women. Use online dating as an appetizer, never the main meal, especially if you aren’t a top 5% man in the looks department. If you’re an exclusive online dater, you are handicapping yourself if you’re a man with that ineffable jerkboy charm that women crave in doses of close physical proximity

Post: #168

(05-26-2017 11:45 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  From our friend at Citizen Renegade:

This is another vindication of a CH tenet: online dating severely restricts the range in which men can display their mate value to women. Use online dating as an appetizer, never the main meal, especially if you aren’t a top 5% man in the looks department. If you’re an exclusive online dater, you are handicapping yourself if you’re a man with that ineffable jerkboy charm that women crave in doses of close physical proximity

How much stock should we put into the words of a man who suggests that a) the greatest concern facing any white parent is keeping their daughters away from "dinduville" (read: you, me, and anyone who resembles us or has even a drop of the genetics we share) and b) any white woman who so much as hooks up with you, me, or anyone who resembles us is 1). a demented, mentally ill, psychologically malformed "mudshark" who risks "cursing" her family with a "technicolor conception", 2.) is engaging in irreversible "defilement" of her family/legacy and a defilement of "Truth and Beauty" (due to the "inherently disgusting" act of intimacy with a "genetically and phenotypically distant race"), and 3). will inevitably "pay the toll"?

Post: #169

I know I may get clobbered for this, but do black guys not want to date black women?

Post: #170

(05-26-2017 10:03 PM)robreke Wrote:  I know I may get clobbered for this, but do black guys not want to date black women?

That's an extremely broad question. No guy here can speak authoritatively for all black men, but I'll speak for myself and those I know well: yes, there is a desire to date attractive women who are of sub-saharan African descent, but there is also a desire to date women who do not have that heritage. In short, the answer to your question is "no, they do, but not exclusively".

Black men will vary on this subject based on how and where they were raised. Those raised in environments that were not predominantly black are more likely to oppose exclusivity (read: repudiate the notion that they must date black women exclusively) or not date black women at all. This is usually for a good reason (isolation from the black community tends to create a disconnect between these men and black American women, at least), though not always.

For most, though, it's more than just upbringing or any of that: it usually just comes down to a broad tendency to find many different kinds of women attractive, a trait you can find in all kinds of men (ex: witness the many legions of white men on this forum who enjoy Asia and Latin America).

Full disclosure: I have personally never dated or slept with a non-hispanic black woman. I have been with Afro-Latinas, however. That is not the result of a conscious effort to avoid non-hispanic black American women (on the contrary, I've pursued several quite aggressively), but a result of my upbringing/background/personal creating a set of factors that make it less likely for me to successfully build rapport with your typical non-hispanic black woman in the USA. I would still date a woman of that background if she showed serious interest and I found her attractive, but I have no intention of strictly limiting myself to that pool because it simply isn't in my interests to do so. There are too many other beautiful women out there from a variety of places and backgrounds.

My perspective isn't applicable to all black men (again, I don't speak for all of them), but it isn't unique either.

Post: #171

(05-26-2017 10:03 PM)robreke Wrote:  I know I may get clobbered for this, but do black guys not want to date black women?

Black men who go after non-Black women are over-represented online. The overwhelming majority of Black men are into Black women. That's why I don't take these okcupid graphs that serious. According to okcupid Black men prefer Asian women over Black women? Not from what I've seen irl.

Post: #172

(05-27-2017 02:57 AM)the high Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 10:03 PM)robreke Wrote:  I know I may get clobbered for this, but do black guys not want to date black women?

Black men who go after non-Black women are over-represented online. The overwhelming majority of Black men are into Black women. That's why I don't take these okcupid graphs that serious. According to okcupid Black men prefer Asian women over Black women? Not from what I've seen irl.

From what I've experienced, black guys aren't with Asian women because the women don't want to be with them. Maybe that's just the culture where I'm at (S.E. Wisconsin. Very ignorant, hood mentality in the black community with Asians having a much tighter family culture that promotes a pure blood line)..... or maybe i just like asians and am salty I've only had 1......

Post: #173

(05-27-2017 10:26 AM)SmasherOfAss Wrote:  

(05-27-2017 02:57 AM)the high Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 10:03 PM)robreke Wrote:  I know I may get clobbered for this, but do black guys not want to date black women?

Black men who go after non-Black women are over-represented online. The overwhelming majority of Black men are into Black women. That's why I don't take these okcupid graphs that serious. According to okcupid Black men prefer Asian women over Black women? Not from what I've seen irl.

From what I've experienced, black guys aren't with Asian women because the women don't want to be with them. Maybe that's just the culture where I'm at (S.E. Wisconsin. Very ignorant, hood mentality in the black community with Asians having a much tighter family culture that promotes a pure blood line)..... or maybe i just like asians and am salty I've only had 1......

Dude. Hood /lower socioeconomic people will struggle with Asians period. Even hood Asians will struggle with your average Asian.Those white dudes holding hands with Asians tend to have money.

In London, UK, Nigerian trainee doctors were smashing Asians left and right. They even had relationships. I am not joking. Four reasons why this could have happen:

(1) away from Asian community particularly parents ... being in a London medical school
(2) Chinese descent women are very very open to interracial in London esp with white dudes
(3) these brothers had status and education and had strong family values and were all round good guys. Just like your stereotypical Asian male but of a different race.Continental Africans share some similarities with Asians- Hard working and value education.
(4) from my recollection... the East Asians I saw weren't super religious. Spiritual, yes. Religious, no. If they were, they were Christian which most blacks are in the west.Again, just like the emphasis on hard work this is a cultural similarity.

I'm not saying these dudes were going to be brought home to the parents but they were defo fucking and having short term relationships. Girls were from Taiwan to Japan to Mainland China to Hong Kong. These brothers were Nigerian and Ghanaian.

Hell, I was in Kenya last month and my cousins husband worked with some Chinese ladies in Nairobi and they were extremely into fucking black men. I'm not saying your gonna be accepted. I'm not saying they won't prefer their own or a white dude but for short term fun:

(1) isolate from herd
(2) get your status and education up
(3) let her come to you. Give her enough data for her to see you as an "outlier" and outside the trend line her racist culture propagates. Also, direct game might not work so well with Asians... especially as a black.

Guess what? Online dating makes it extremely hard for you to be seen as an individual. You won't get social proof and you won't passively demonstrate value. You're just another black man. Might as well be a mugshot photo.

No racist.

Post: #174

Double post

Post: #175

Funny discussion. As a European white guy, while I do consider black girls attractive generally and do think they have potentially the best bodies. There's something in them that just prevents me from having the sort of romantic/settling down feelings with them. I think one part of it is inherently tribalistic because naturally we tend to want our kids to look like ourselves, and I always saw myself settling down with a European white girl (possibly slavic) or an East Asian (Japan or Korea). But now I see this happens along many black guys too even in the forum, while black girls in Europe are on average much less "ratchet" than the type of loudmouth ghetto black girls in the USA I think there is SOMETHING that I can't quite put my finger on that makes them unnappealing as a match.

Sort of an inherent "manliness" in them? Hard to explain. But reading this and other topics on the subject online has made me realize it's not just my "problem"