Post: #3401

I'd definitely like to chime in on this thread and the posts of the last days.

I started going to Ukraine 7 years ago, long before Tinder and when literally no girl had a smartphone there, but at best was checking her Mamba or VK messages on her laptop or more often in an internet cafe. Went back to Ukraine regularly ever since, with 11 trips in 7 years and the 12th trip already planned. Saw lots of parts and cities of the country from Odesa to Chernivtsi, from Lviv to Chernigiv, with Kiev being my main focus on most trips. Had a short-term relationship with a 19yo Ukrainian as well as several harem girls/FWBs, some of which I fucked regularly over the course of several years (my Ukrainian notch count is at 6). Met all the girls I fucked, and many other ones which I went on dates with but didn't fuck, through online game - mainly Mamba and VK which were both already available and heavily used as far back as 2010.

So, there definitely are big changes happening to this country and especially to the way in which Ukrainian girls react to foreigners. 5 to 7 years ago, you had no problem getting the attention of girls online, starting conversations with them that actually kept going and actually meeting them for dates.

What I notice now in preparation for my 2017 trip, and already noticed last year, is a significant drop in reply rates from girls, the rate being as much as 90% lower than 5 to 7 years ago. Take it from a guy who browsed profiles by the hundreds and thousands on Mamba and VK during the past years, every year, before every trip and in between. Neither my technique nor my online games tactics changed.
But it's the girls behaviour and mindset that changed because of the tens of thousands of thirsty foreigners spamming them on the online sites.

7 years ago, if you wrote to a Ukrainian girl that you'd be visiting her city (be it Kiev or some remote industrial shithole), she'd give you all her attention and her number and was in fact waiting to meet you personally.
In 2017, you're just the 100th foreigner of the week, the 400th of the month, the 4800th of the past year, spamming her account, sweet-talking her, telling her that you'd soon be in her city and then actually never showing up. They just can't separate the real traveler anymore from the wannabe travelers and time-wasters. If you write to them in Russian with imperfect grammar, 7 years ago they were pleasantly surprised and reacted positively. Nowadays, they all ask you if you use a so-so-working online translator for your messages.

It's really a mess. These girls don't answer at all or turn cold and/or ghost soon after, especially when you make any indirect hints as to sexuality after some time of writing, which is seen as some kind of offense now because they think you're just coming in to fuck them (which you most likely are, of course. But now they're bitching about it instead of simply meeting you to fuck them). Bitch shields are building up there big time.

What else? The EU parliament now has cleared the way for visa-free travel for all Ukrainians for up to 90 days to European Union (exept UK and Ireland) and some other European states such as Norway and Switzerland starting as early as next month. Which means that the Ukrainian girls that actually want to go West, don't need a foreigner anymore for a piggyback ride/visa shit. They just get their ass on a cheap long-distance bus and go. And those who want to find a "rich" or upper middle class foreigner for upscaling their lifestyle and permanently moving to the west, can soon come here and choose for themselves from the top guys, who simply don't go to Ukraine because they pull enough pussy on their hometurf. Instead of dealing with the usually not-so-top-guys who come to Ukraine for fucking, who mostly have a reason for it (for example not pulling on their hometurf, such as in my case - which the Ukrainian girls of course smell and know).

Big changes happening right now, visa-free travel to EU might fuck up the dating market in Ukraine slowly, but steadily.

Also, in the past years, I notice a certain bitchiness (someone else here used the term "histrionic", which also fits very well) in Ukrainian girls that I'm just not willing to put up with anymore. It's not that they are sweet or kind or nourishing in any way, they just expect you to be the most perfect gentleman ever and won't forgive even small mistakes in behaviour, style or frame and want to be entertained all the time, being mostly bland, boring and cold themselves. They feel more and more like empty, cold, but beautiful storefront window dolls to me. I don't get any joy out of dating them anymore, let alone slowly and steadily working my way to their pussy by listening to their boring, wannabe-intellectual shit. At least American or German girls don't pretend to be sooooo sophisticated and widely read in classical literature when they're just waiving around worthless university diplomas not recognized in any Western country because almost every girl (except the store cashiers) has them in Ukraine at age 22.

So, while some of you might put me in the negativity tab after this post as well, I would slowly designate Ukraine as a former pussy paradise lost. That being said, you still can get laid there, and definitely much easier than you'd be used to in your Western homecountry. Just there's no guarantee that you enjoy the process of working towards it, because it's a lot more difficult, time- and energy-consuming than it used to be, and than it would be in the Philippines for example. Maybe the juice is just not worth the squeeze anymore.

All that being said, what I still love Ukraine for is its natural beauty, and architectural gems and for it being an overall very interesting (though sometimes exhausting) travel destination, and it being one of the two last large countries in Europe that can be reached visa-free for most Western guys, while at the same time not yet being overrun with the tourist masses like the rest of Europe (Romania being the other one of these two countries). If you go to Ukraine just for the fun of traveling, and take the girls simply as some extra eye candy that comes free with your trip, you should be able to enjoy it a lot. Especially because it is, along with Moldova, by far the cheapest "white"/European country in the world, with prices that are right now so ridiculously low that it's simply crazy to see. So if you just wanna splurge on yourself by living in a good hotel room for several weeks, dining out three times a day, taking taxis everywhere and anytime, traveling in luxury sleeper cars across the entire country and maintaining a reasonable travel budget, Ukraine is the country to go.

Post: #3402

@goldenhinde

You might be right about online dating in Ukraine but I see it mostly as a waste of time anyway, apart from perhaps like yourself you are pipelining before trips. I certainly wouldn't bother sitting around on my laptop in this country while parades of beautiful women walk past my window.

I also started coming to Ukraine around the same time as you, I have done a little online from time, and it probably has got worse but I don't care.

Quote:At least American or German girls don't pretend to be sooooo sophisticated

Thank god!

Quote:If you go to Ukraine just for the fun of traveling, and take the girls simply as some extra eye candy that comes free with your trip, you should be able to enjoy it a lot.

Not for me, I go for the jugular and love it

I'm probably becoming more and more successful in this country as time goes by, I don't know how that resonates with other foreigners here.

Post: #3403

Anyone has any bar recommendations that are a step up from the hipster/college bars?

Not the typical shisha lounge either.

Mostly for dates. something like "the bar" in Arena.

Post: #3404

(05-13-2017 09:50 AM)Beirut Wrote:  Anyone has any bar recommendations that are a step up from the hipster/college bars?

Not the typical shisha lounge either.

Mostly for dates. something like "the bar" in Arena.

Although not really a bar...try Milk Bar.

Always a lot of good looking girls around there and the prices are much cheaper then Arena City and it's only 5-10 walk away.

Post: #3405

(05-13-2017 09:59 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 09:50 AM)Beirut Wrote:  Anyone has any bar recommendations that are a step up from the hipster/college bars?

Not the typical shisha lounge either.

Mostly for dates. something like "the bar" in Arena.

Although not really a bar...try Milk Bar.

Always a lot of good looking girls around there and the prices are much cheaper then Arena City and it's only 5-10 walk away.

Milk bar... I don't understand everyone's fascination with that place or the appeal of it, it is just a regular western coffee shop, starbucks style or similar, both foreigners and locals love it though, always full...not my kind of place.

Beirut, if you want to impress, take her to B-Hush, in the rooftop of Intercontinental hotel, cocktails can go up to 10$ but it is a wonderful place with classy live music (Sinatra, Bossa nova...), and a stunning view.

   

   

Post: #3406

(05-13-2017 10:15 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 09:59 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 09:50 AM)Beirut Wrote:  Anyone has any bar recommendations that are a step up from the hipster/college bars?

Not the typical shisha lounge either.

Mostly for dates. something like "the bar" in Arena.

Although not really a bar...try Milk Bar.

Always a lot of good looking girls around there and the prices are much cheaper then Arena City and it's only 5-10 walk away.

Milk bar... I don't understand everyone's fascination with that place or the appeal of it, it is just a regular western coffee shop, starbucks style or similar, both foreigners and locals love it though, always full...not my kind of place.

Beirut, if you want to impress, take her to B-Hush, in the rooftop of Intercontinental hotel, cocktails can go up to 10$ but it is a wonderful place with classy live music (Sinatra, Bossa nova...), and a stunning view.

I second Intercontinental. Other places I like is the top floor of Avalon and the top bar at Hyatt hotel (price levels similar to Intercontinental).

Post: #3407

(05-12-2017 02:28 PM)goldenhinde Wrote:  I'd definitely like to chime in on this thread and the posts of the last days.

I started going to Ukraine 7 years ago, long before Tinder and when literally no girl had a smartphone there, but at best was checking her Mamba or VK messages on her laptop or more often in an internet cafe. Went back to Ukraine regularly ever since, with 11 trips in 7 years and the 12th trip already planned.

Great post. I started going to Kiev back in 2011 when I was going through a divorce and have been about 8 times in total.

I share much of the same sentiment you expressed..although I don't really have as desire much to go back as much lately, despite fact I scored and did well on my last visit back in Sept.

Much more a transactional vibe to the girls as many long time posters are confirming.
When I first came there... I still remember on first coffee dates back on first them there a girl brought me a traditional Ukrainian painted eggs as gift as she was excited to meet a foreigner.

That never happened again.
Now age is more of a issue to younger educated Kiev girls... the downside of the Instagram age.

Post: #3408

Seems the guys that are getting less enthused about Ukraine are the ones that have been coming here for a long time and thus are getting older. As a guy enters middle age dating becomes more transactional with the younger hotter ones.

Rule of thumb is that if you struggle in other countries it wont be much different for you here

Though for many guys Ukraine continues to be a pussy buffet, the biggest problem being that there are too many girls for us to service.

Post: #3409

Love a good humble brag from an unrep'd / unvetted guy. Of course you bench 500 for reps too.

Post: #3410

(05-13-2017 09:50 AM)Beirut Wrote:  Anyone has any bar recommendations that are a step up from the hipster/college bars?

Not the typical shisha lounge either.

Mostly for dates. something like "the bar" in Arena.

Café L'étage

Post: #3411

(05-13-2017 01:05 PM)Cambodian Creamsicle Wrote:  Love a good humble brag from an unrep'd / unvetted guy. Of course you bench 500 for reps too.

You're right, I should go with the status quo.

Ukraine is finished -

The girls are realising their value and have started to demand cake as well as coffee on dates.
The guys are balling it lately with the money they earned cleaning toilets in Germany, it's not possible to compete.
The young students don't appreciate my efforts to rescue them from their Ukrainian nightmare of a life.
Clubs are dead because the girls are sitting on Mamba and VK, yet online game is dead too.
The Turks have stolen all the girls with their charm,charisma,good looks,axe deodorant and wet-look hair gel.
The price of Vodka is increasing disproportionately with inflation
Face control is getting much worse since I first came here in 1992.
The girls are increasingly wearing converse instead of heels
The girls are getting increasing snobby, no American girl would judge me by my 2$ T-Shirt
The grivna has spiked by 50 Kopeks due to positive economic data, i'm off to Moldova

Post: #3412

Thanks for the recommendations everyone. Will be in kiev next week with a bit of a chaotic schedule. If anyones around pm me

Post: #3413

(05-11-2017 07:40 AM)Henny Wrote:  ion.

With regard to saying that the Turks have ruined everything, you should ask yourself what the real Giacomo Casanova would have done in your situation....18th century Venice was the sex capital of Europe where men from all over the place would come to get their end wet.

Casanova left magical Venice and went to bang chicks all around the planet

Post: #3414

(05-11-2017 11:22 AM)Giacomo Casanova Wrote:  

(05-11-2017 10:31 AM)Rocha Wrote:  Well...basically he said that))))

But nonetheless I think he touches some valid points, though some are common sense nowadays like the Turks in Ukraine or stags in Budapest and the Baltics.
On his defense, he praises some places like Czech Republic or Northern Poland.

@Giacomo
Since many guys are picking on your negativity towards EE, and you are already labeled as a negativist, if you could elaborate a little on your past experiences and made you went eastwards perhaps the guys could understand more from where you come from. It is just a challenge that I make you.

I think that I gave already some hints in the previous messages, I have a strong background as night gamer, never considered other options to meet girls except for some social circles pick-ups occasionally. For me the normality few years ago when I was living in West was kissing 3/4 cute girls in one night in Ministry of Sound in London - if you know what it means. In other Western countries during my long term residence I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Also with South American girls I had good memories. So for me the imagine of West is positive. Also when I occasionally travel in West to party, I find a better atmosphere overall and friendlier people. Additionally even in EE I met various cute Western girls and usually being successful and got invited in their countries, things which rarely happened in EE.
Maybe now due to the migrant crisis also West is totally screwed? It is possible, I am no longer living there.
Only problem comes with the fact that I actually like the EE girls, in terms of beauty. I am like addicted.
So once I moved in EE it was better, girls were receptive, I was dating definitely up reaching almost the top, and didn't understand why. It was probably best time of my life. But then suddenly everything started changing: girls got used to foreigners, hordes of desperate guys come here thinking that girls are waiting for them in the airport, they invaded the clubs. Many girls are now scared to go dancing in the center; even my favorite club where 3 years ago was impossible not to kiss at least a girl during a night is a disaster. Girls preferred local guys despite lower value, lower game, lower status, lower look. They don't care if you are a lawyer, if you have a company, if you travel all over the world, if you learn their complicated language, if you dress elegant. They want to show you they are not "easy".
The wow factor is finished, now sometimes they don't look your face when you approach, they say to go away without even say a word about yourself. They have too much choice now...they lost their mind. Here I am talking about my region. There are greener towns in EE for sure where I have been and will come back. Then in the end I am then not saying that all cute girls are the same, I was definitely successful as always in the last months with night game, despite everything, some friends instead gave up. But even despite being successful, it often gives me a sense of "unnatural" flow, there are histrionic reaction after intimacy, they don't get used to high value men, seems like I have to chase them all time, no respect, etc.

After 3 years in Ukraine, I feel the same: Declining results, much more work on dates and crazy princess attitudes that end the relationships quite early. Pretty much all my friends who have been here many years feel the same.Time to move on for me. The trap is that it is hard to leave because there are always new prospects interested in you but they play the game in a nasty way now and you often lose a lot of time and (dinner) dates to get nothing. Girls in Kiev are becoming more and more like Odessan bitches... Waisting your time and resources for little results

Post: #3415

(05-13-2017 01:49 PM)BangBoy123 Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 01:05 PM)Cambodian Creamsicle Wrote:  Love a good humble brag from an unrep'd / unvetted guy. Of course you bench 500 for reps too.

You're right, I should go with the status quo.

Ukraine is finished -

The girls are realising their value and have started to demand cake as well as coffee on dates.
The guys are balling it lately with the money they earned cleaning toilets in Germany, it's not possible to compete.
The young students don't appreciate my efforts to rescue them from their Ukrainian nightmare of a life.
Clubs are dead because the girls are sitting on Mamba and VK, yet online game is dead too.
The Turks have stolen all the girls with their charm,charisma,good looks,axe deodorant and wet-look hair gel.
The price of Vodka is increasing disproportionately with inflation
Face control is getting much worse since I first came here in 1992.
The girls are increasingly wearing converse instead of heels
The girls are getting increasing snobby, no American girl would judge me by my 2$ T-Shirt
The grivna has spiked by 50 Kopeks due to positive economic data, i'm off to Moldova

Post: #3416

(05-13-2017 01:49 PM)BangBoy123 Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 01:05 PM)Cambodian Creamsicle Wrote:  Love a good humble brag from an unrep'd / unvetted guy. Of course you bench 500 for reps too.

You're right, I should go with the status quo.

Ukraine is finished -

The girls are realising their value and have started to demand cake as well as coffee on dates.
The guys are balling it lately with the money they earned cleaning toilets in Germany, it's not possible to compete.
The young students don't appreciate my efforts to rescue them from their Ukrainian nightmare of a life.
Clubs are dead because the girls are sitting on Mamba and VK, yet online game is dead too.
The Turks have stolen all the girls with their charm,charisma,good looks,axe deodorant and wet-look hair gel.
The price of Vodka is increasing disproportionately with inflation
Face control is getting much worse since I first came here in 1992.
The girls are increasingly wearing converse instead of heels
The girls are getting increasing snobby, no American girl would judge me by my 2$ T-Shirt
The grivna has spiked by 50 Kopeks due to positive economic data, i'm off to Moldova

Cancelling my trip to Kiev this summer

Post: #3417

^ Me too.
Hello Africa!

Post: #3418

(05-13-2017 09:50 AM)Beirut Wrote:  Anyone has any bar recommendations that are a step up from the hipster/college bars?

Not the typical shisha lounge either.

Mostly for dates. something like "the bar" in Arena.

I take dates to Van Gogh bar a lot. Mostly because it works logistically for me since I usually stay in that area. It's a pretty chill spot with comfy couches in the back. It's dark and intimate and perfect for escalating.

Post: #3419

This talk about Ukraine becoming a lost poosy paradise is deeply unsettling. I’ve never visited but always wanted to. I might have to fast track my visit to this summer before it’s too late.

Post: #3420

(05-15-2017 09:13 AM)invictusiii Wrote:  I take dates to Van Gogh bar a lot. Mostly because it works logistically for me since I usually stay in that area. It's a pretty chill spot with comfy couches in the back. It's dark and intimate and perfect for escalating.

Hah nice! I work across the street from there and frequent it with co-workers and lunch hour daygame insta-dates. Their whiskey sour is top notch!

Post: #3421

Just returned home from almost two weeks in Kiev. I had an 18yo travel 4 hours by train to come stay with me. Back in apartment less than 30 minutes later for the bang. Barely left the apartment for the next 24 hours. Broke the jacuzzi as well.

Also met a redhead who is just my type in a shitty marriage. Cooked, cleaned and wanted me to fuck her aggressively.

Keeping in touch with both. And people say Kyiv is ruined!

Post: #3422

Holy shit, you stayed in Airbnb "super high tech jacuzzi" or something like that?

Post: #3423

(05-16-2017 03:17 PM)goncalo999 Wrote:  Holy shit, you stayed in Airbnb "super high tech jacuzzi" or something like that?

Haha, I had an apartment booked for most of my days and I was thinking of going to some other city for a couple of days at the start but decided to just do Kiev this time. Sadly my apartment wasnt available over the extra days so just booked somewhere near it for two nights

Post: #3424

(05-16-2017 04:26 PM)mcgooie Wrote:  

(05-16-2017 03:17 PM)goncalo999 Wrote:  Holy shit, you stayed in Airbnb "super high tech jacuzzi" or something like that?

Haha, I had an apartment booked for most of my days and I was thinking of going to some other city for a couple of days at the start but decided to just do Kiev this time. Sadly my apartment wasnt available over the extra days so just booked somewhere near it for two nights

When I was in Kiev I stayed in a flat with a jacuzzi under the bad! very sexual house, going to book it again the next time

Post: #3425

http://rian.com.ua/world_news/20170517/1024129488.html

The end of an Era?

Visa Free Schengen, 11 июня (June)