Post: #226

(04-11-2017 11:44 PM)Last Parade Wrote:  Maybe I've grown far too authoritarian; but based on the system they had in place, he lost the lottery, he had to get out. When this guy refuses to leave, what are they supposed to do at this point? "Well, this gentleman is refusing to leave, I guess we'll randomly select someone else"? Then you'd be incentivizing belligerent, disrespectful, and anti-authority behaviour. Follow the rules.

Also, for people saying "they should've kept upping what they offer" - there needs to be a limit, once word gets out that there's no limit to airplane offers nobody would ever take the first or second offer, defeating the entire purpose.

You are correct, and both of these things are true at the same time.

...which just emphasizes the point that United's procedure was terrible. Travel is very stressful for some people and human psychology exists on a spectrum. If you put people on this plane, with their bags stowed and their seatbelts buckled, then give them an opportunity to volunteer *and* start randomly pulling people who did not volunteer when that fails, eventually you're going to have a confrontation with an unstable jackass.

Asking for volunteers only re-affirms the fact that they paid for their ticket, were properly seated, and when asked to leave, said "no". Worse, once people don't volunteer, it almost becomes like a staring contest: you've got a whole plane full of people who have silently decided not to budge, validating each other's decision to stay.

It was United's error to overbook and then not care of the situation before boarding. They could have just taken it on the chin in the interest of the business instead of disrupting the flight and ending up with all this drama on their hands. It's my understanding that it resulted in a three hour delay and would have only taken about four hours to drive the employees to their destination in a car.

Plus, there appears to be at least some debate over whether United's contract of carriage even allowed them to do this. It may very well be the case that once they'd boarded the passenger, he did have priority over deadheading employees, which would make involving law enforcement over their own mishandling of a civil contract even crazier.

...and also, the doctor is still totally a jackass.

Post: #227

I hope this drops ticket prices for when I want to go on vacation.

Post: #228

(04-11-2017 10:19 PM)Only One Man Wrote:  But fuck this guy for throwing a tantrum the way he did.

Wait, who threw the tantrum? Did the passenger order government goons in to use violence to rip the pilot off the plane or was it the other way around?

Post: #229

(04-12-2017 01:07 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 10:19 PM)Only One Man Wrote:  But fuck this guy for throwing a tantrum the way he did.

Wait, who threw the tantrum? Did the passenger order government goons in to use violence to rip the pilot off the plane or was it the other way around?

I THINK, from different news sources and witness accounts, that screaming from the passenger was when he was tazed and not a tantrum per se. There is conflicting opinion about that.

Post: #230

Wtf is going on in this thread, is this people's collective "SJW moment" of 2017 or something?

An insufferable "you can't inconvenience me, I'm Chinese!" scumbag drug peddler refused to get off a plane after 2 people had already peaceably gotten off and was removed by force, as his behavior deserved. And there are 10 pages of outrage over this?

Post: #231

(04-12-2017 12:59 PM)spokepoker Wrote:  "A stripper last night brought up "Rich Dad Poor Dad" when I mentioned, "Think and Grow Rich""

So... daddy issues... or?

Post: #232

(04-12-2017 12:27 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 11:44 PM)Last Parade Wrote:  Maybe I've grown far too authoritarian; but based on the system they had in place, he lost the lottery, he had to get out. When this guy refuses to leave, what are they supposed to do at this point? "Well, this gentleman is refusing to leave, I guess we'll randomly select someone else"? Then you'd be incentivizing belligerent, disrespectful, and anti-authority behaviour. Follow the rules.

Also, for people saying "they should've kept upping what they offer" - there needs to be a limit, once word gets out that there's no limit to airplane offers nobody would ever take the first or second offer, defeating the entire purpose.

You are correct, and both of these things are true at the same time.

No he's not. And I'm willing to bet goody goody follow-the-rules Last Parade has exceeded a speed limit or dropped a piece of litter at least once in his life. And authority's all well and nice so long as you're the one with your boot on the other guy's face.

I guess I don't get the fetish to zealously defer to authority I've seen from some posters in this thread. I honestly doubt if the 40,000 word contract had included a term saying "if you wear red sneakers we reserve the right to execute you on the spot if you don't throw them away", and the guy had failed to comply to that and gotten shot, these posters wouldn't have said "well he should've just followed the rules". That's a pretty fucked up mentality. That's how atrocities like in Vietnam and Congo happened. "Well rules is rules; orders is orders! Guess I've got to riddle these children with bullets now".

And the obvious and correct way they should've dealt with it has been mentioned.

(04-12-2017 12:27 PM)Jetset Wrote:  ...and also, the doctor is still totally a jackass.

Still irrelevant.

Post: #233

(04-12-2017 01:51 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  Wtf is going on in this thread, is this people's collective "SJW moment" of 2017 or something?

An insufferable "you can't inconvenience me, I'm Chinese!" scumbag drug peddler refused to get off a plane after 2 people had already peaceably gotten off and was removed by force, as his behavior deserved. And there are 10 pages of outrage over this?

I guess we all just find it strange that there are so many people, like yourself, who are approaching this event like this and think the airline's behaviour was OK. Its pretty hard to comprehend actually.

The fact that 2 other people peacefully got off was irrelevant -- if I were to spit in a random strangers face, the majority will actually just exclaim something and then walk off and tell their friends later. The safeguard against that behaviour is that eventually I'll do it to someone who will beat me to a pulp.

That he peddled drugs once had nothing to do with that event.

Feel free to establish why customers getting to enjoy the service they paid for should be a discretionary thing for the company, and why smashing a dude who won't comply with being inconvenienced is a better way at handling this than a Dutch Auction.

Post: #234

I will offer several predictions in light of the fal-out from the videos:
1. We will see a round of announced firings at United.
2. United will announce a change in policy--it may not be truly meaningful, but it will SOUND meaningful
and should at the minimum include not boarding ANY passengers until over-booking situations are
resolved.
3. We will see an uptick in these instances, driven by a variety of factors:
a. Some people will resist "re-accommodation" out of principle, looking to fight "big corporate"
b. Some people will resist for the media fame alone
c. Some people will resist to the point of violence with an eye to sue.
d. United and other carriers will not be able to re-accommodate for tiny sums any more, everyone
knows they can hold out for the magic $1350.00.

Post: #235

(04-11-2017 11:44 PM)Last Parade Wrote:  Maybe I've grown far too authoritarian; but based on the system they had in place, he lost the lottery, he had to get out. When this guy refuses to leave, what are they supposed to do at this point? "Well, this gentleman is refusing to leave, I guess we'll randomly select someone else"? Then you'd be incentivizing belligerent, disrespectful, and anti-authority behaviour. Follow the rules.

(emphasis added)

What this guy's behavior incentivizes is: reasonable, not one-sided policies on the part of the airlines. I don't care whether he's an unstable SJW or playing the race card or just looking for a huge payout. I'm tired of sheep.

Post: #236

(04-10-2017 01:53 PM)RIslander Wrote:  I have very little doubt in my mind that man is a homosexual.

Hilarious, my thoughts also

Post: #237

(04-12-2017 02:27 PM)Ironbutt62 Wrote:  I will offer several predictions in light of the fal-out from the videos:
1. We will see a round of announced firings at United.
2. United will announce a change in policy--it may not be truly meaningful, but it will SOUND meaningful
and should at the minimum include not boarding ANY passengers until over-booking situations are
resolved.
3. We will see an uptick in these instances, driven by a variety of factors:
a. Some people will resist "re-accommodation" out of principle, looking to fight "big corporate"
b. Some people will resist for the media fame alone
c. Some people will resist to the point of violence with an eye to sue.
d. United and other carriers will not be able to re-accommodate for tiny sums any more, everyone
knows they can hold out for the magic $1350.00.

Will they get better, though? Why is it that some airlines can be just as inexpensive as others and yet have great customer service? It has to be management. I can't figure out any other reason.

Has anyone travelled with American airlines in the past 30 years? What a bunch of assholes. Why can JetBlue be cheaper and nicer than American and United and Continental? All I can figure is the environment that the managers make for the airline.

So if the CEO of United needs to go because he's bred an environment of shithead customer service, then if I were a stockholder of UAL I would vote to toss his ass out.

Post: #238

(04-12-2017 02:43 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 02:27 PM)Ironbutt62 Wrote:  I will offer several predictions in light of the fal-out from the videos:
1. We will see a round of announced firings at United.
2. United will announce a change in policy--it may not be truly meaningful, but it will SOUND meaningful
and should at the minimum include not boarding ANY passengers until over-booking situations are
resolved.
3. We will see an uptick in these instances, driven by a variety of factors:
a. Some people will resist "re-accommodation" out of principle, looking to fight "big corporate"
b. Some people will resist for the media fame alone
c. Some people will resist to the point of violence with an eye to sue.
d. United and other carriers will not be able to re-accommodate for tiny sums any more, everyone
knows they can hold out for the magic $1350.00.

Will they get better, though? Why is it that some airlines can be just as inexpensive as others and yet have great customer service? It has to be management. I can't figure out any other reason.

Has anyone travelled with American airlines in the past 30 years? What a bunch of assholes. Why can JetBlue be cheaper and nicer than American and United and Continental? All I can figure is the environment that the managers make for the airline.

So if the CEO of United needs to go because he's bred an environment of shithead customer service, then if I were a stockholder of UAL I would vote to toss his ass out.

I usually fly Delta and British Air. Years ago, i flew Icelandic several times.
Excellent experiences all.

Post: #239

(04-12-2017 02:48 PM)Ironbutt62 Wrote:  I usually fly Delta and British Air. Years ago, i flew Icelandic several times.
Excellent experiences all.

I like Delta. For a massive airline, they're pretty damn nice. US Air had stuck me in Pittsburg one night and the night crew were packing up to go home and were like, "Sorry, no more flights until tomorrow." They completely didn't give a shit that I was stuck at Shittsburg airport all night.

So, I went to the Delta counter. They were packing up, to go home, too. But I told the Delta lady I was stuck and US Air had fucked me and I merely asked about a close, cheap hotel. I told her I was asking her because I flew Delta a lot and trusted them. She offered to have Delta buy me a hotel room for the night! I didn't take her up on it because it wasn't Delta's fault. I slept on a shitty hard bench in the Airport Police station all night (those guys were cool as fuck, too). But Delta was gonna comp me a hotel even though it was US Air that fucked me.

Post: #240

Spirit Air for the budget flyer I am... ultra cheap until you tack on the add-ons... travel light and plan ahead.

Post: #241

(04-12-2017 02:02 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  I guess I don't get the fetish to zealously defer to authority I've seen from some posters in this thread.

For clarity, I don't think there's anything OK about what they did.

The bottom line, though, is that it's not even about "authority". It's simply not my plane. If the airline's employees decide that I need to get off the airline's plane, I might defend my conduct, but I'm not going to push it to the point that the police are brought in. That's just dipshit conduct, not unlike if I had a hissy fit and made the staff get the police involved because I was asked to leave a bar/club. If somebody wants to turn a civil dispute into a criminal altercation, that's not my problem, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on how to prioritize life.

I might not agree with Last Parade in principle, but those two points I quoted are completely correct. In general, the scope of your expectation when you buy a ticket for something and they can't/don't deliver is to get the full price of the ticket back. The idea that you have an unlimited entitlement to play dead in the seat and obstinately demand to be served until they hit some arbitrarily large number that makes you happy is ridiculous.

They were both wrong. The fact that he was wrong too, though, is irrelevant, because even if his conduct had been immaculate, United's handling of this would still be unacceptable - and as a frequent passenger, I'm glad his public temper tantrum brought attention to it.

Post: #242

I've volunteered to give up my seat on United 3 times in the last couple of years. It's quite predictable that they will ask for volunteers when traveling during busy times. For me it wasn't a problem, I just had to hang around Newark airport for 5 or 6 extra hours and I got a $500 voucher each time. Since I was in no hurry to get to my destination (Panama City), I thought it was a good deal. I fly about 5 or 6 times a year and the vouchers have almost paid for 3 complete trips. Big win for me.

Having said that, this was a terrible thing for United to have done. Still, I'll continue to use them.

Post: #243

Post: #244

(04-12-2017 01:45 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 01:03 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 12:22 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:  However I geared that he will be getting 500k-1million dollars in compensation. So not sure if he's really smart or what. In Thailand he will prob get nothing.

That's because when he was thrown off the plane, it happened to be standing on the soil of the country that produces literally half of the planet's legal profession.

In most of Europe he would have gotten 2000-10.000$ at the utmost after a long lawsuit. The US is great in that respect and it pays to be a lunatic while a company does stupid things.

In Europe you get less money and have to fight harder for it. Volkswagen drivers get nothing in Europe, but a lot in the USA. Issue is the laws. In the USA you can do this kind of gathered suing. In Germany for example, every person has to sue by his own. Make the risk a way higher. Also the money is limited.
Other side, you read also about less messed up cases like this in Europe.

I see many other ways to solve such a case like this. And I would also feel pissed when someone just tell me I have to leave the plane because of some economical issues the company deals.

Post: #245

(04-12-2017 03:03 PM)Jetset Wrote:  The bottom line, though, is that it's not even about "authority". It's simply not my plane. If the airline's employees decide that I need to get off the airline's plane, I might defend my conduct, but I'm not going to push it to the point that the police are brought in.

But your house is simply not yours either. Neither is anything else you get use of contractually. Your landlord being able to kick you out tomorrow would be equally unreasonable. The fact its his doesn't nullify the agreement you made with him to use it. This is why there are specific prescribed and well thought out ways to resolve these changes in circumstances, so the owner can get more or less what they want, without screwing over the tenant.

Frankly I'm amazed a company has found a way to legally use the police as its goons when it wants to deny issuing a paid-for service to its customers.

My guess is this overbooking & get off now thing is rather common in America specifically, listening to the other comments about how many times its happened to them. Maybe when you see a wrong being done day in day out your whole life, you start to falsely see it as normal behaviour. I don't think I've ever been asked to get off a flight in my whole life, or heard of anyone else I know being asked to do so. Must be one of Americans retarded things, like tipping and using ancient measurements.

Post: #246

(04-12-2017 04:15 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  My guess is this overbooking & get off now thing is rather common in America specifically, listening to the other comments about how many times its happened to them. Maybe when you see a wrong being done day in day out your whole life, you start to falsely see it as normal behaviour. I don't think I've ever been asked to get off a flight in my whole life, or heard of anyone else I know being asked to do so. Must be one of Americans retarded things, like tipping and using ancient measurements.

Quote:https://www.welt.de/finanzen/article1636...eiten.html

For the German airline, some 2.8 million passengers would not arrive as planned on a yearly basis - with around 62 million flights. Nevertheless, no space should be unnecessarily empty. Only 0.04 percent of all passengers had to withdraw from a flight after an overbooking in 2016

In absolute terms, there are still around 22,000 passengers. Violently they had to be taken out of the machine.

Wonder what the numbers are in the US. Are americans aware of the concept of de-escalation?

Post: #247

I switched to a later flight early a few hours ago because Island Air was overbooked. They gave me a $50 gift card that was good anywhere in the Maui airport, a free one way ticket anywhere they fly( four places) and 10 tokens for a massaging chair.

Island Air is nice people.

EDIT: I left out the good part: I had the very first seat, and I was chatting up the pilot. I told him I was supposed to be on the 7:12 flight. He said "we appreciate you doing that, dog" and gave me a fist bump, then went to fly the plane. Pilot called me dog.

Aloha!

Post: #248

Here is what is going to happen as a result of this fucking manufactured outrage: only white males will be asked to get off the plane.

Well played folks, I hope you savor your outrage cause tomorrow your personal odds of being asked off the plane will have just increased.

Post: #249

On the radio today they were doing new slogans from united:

"United Airlines. Now serving punch"

"United Airlines. Get on a Doctor. Get off a Patient"

Post: #250

(04-12-2017 04:33 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  Here is what is going to happen as a result of this fucking manufactured outrage: only white males will be asked to get off the plane.

Well played folks, I hope you savor your outrage cause tomorrow your personal odds of being asked off the plane will have just increased.

Well it looks like they did it again, to a white man. One named Geoff, so must be a hockey player.

http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/...story.html

Sorry for blowing your theory.

Aloha!