Post: #1

Last night was out with a ex colleague who does not approach or make the first move. He has success off tinder, I haven't had any success with online dating at all.

My friend went to the bathroom, so I was left by myself. I hate being the loner guy and saw a girl by herself. I went up to her and made a comment about how her style is similar to a few places I've travelled. She was temping as a nanny here for four weeks from Germany and this was her last weekend here. She was here with the dad of the host family she was nannying for, and his friend. The 'dad' and his friend had gone off to talk to other women in the bar.

When my friend came back, I introduced them to each other and the three of us talked about travel etc. Sometimes it felt she was bored with us because she was checking her phone and my friend said to me it doesn't look like shes interested.

We were talking for about 2-3 hours and every now and then the 'dad' would rejoin us to check she was ok. I noticed there were a quite a few moments where we all ran out of things to say, but conversation continued.

As she drank more, she seemed to open up a bit and when she left for the bathroom, my friend said he thinks he'd be able to bang her. At this point, I didn't think she was attracted to me (but she didn't show signs of attraction to my friend either), so I said to him (thinking I was being the helpful wingman), "let me know when I should leave so you're both alone".

A girl who the 'dad' was gaming saw the girl and me and she said just by looking at us together, she could tell we were quite similar, but weren't right together. It was anti-game, it was the complete opposite of when you get a girl to walk by and say you both make a cute couple. I thought, well fuck that confirms it, may as well let my friend go for it. I didn't really feel I was her type either, but that is me rejecting myself before she does right?

In my mind, the guy who approaches chooses
However one thing that stuck in my mind was Tuthmosis' post about logistics, logistics, logistics. My friend's logistics were more suited for the bang - he was a 5 min walk away, whereas I was 30mins walk/10 min taxi. He lives alone, I share a house with other people who would still be up this time of night. He has a car so he'd be able to drop her off tomorrow, whereas I don't have a car.

My friend was also saying shit like when drinking came up, my friend said (to her in front of me) "he doesn't drink, he's Asian, thats all the explanation you need", or "he's a lot older than us" (she was 20, he's 23 and I'm 33). I don't think he (at least consciously) had any malicious intent, but I did feel there was a small bit of "I'm a better deal than this guy" vibe to it. I try to not to ascribe intent to other people's actions anyway since you never really know what they are thinking.

Something doesn't feel right in this situation, but I can't quite figure out why.

1. Did I cuck myself by offering to leave instead of trying to outgame my friend? In my mind, it is pathetic to watch two guys (even more so when they are friends) trying to work the same girl against each other since they both lose. Its just I felt I did the 'work' - I approached her and talked to her long enough so that when my friend rejoined us, we were still all able to talk.
2. Did I write myself off prematurely by thinking I have poorer logistics? I thought I'm less likely to get the bang since the barriers are higher, so may as well let him have it. I think if I hadn't read the Tuthmosis post, it would have never even crossed my mind.
3. Was it the right call to not try to out-game my friend? What should you do in a situation like this?

I've been overthinking this and wracking my brain over what have I learned from this and what should I have done differently.

The only thing I can come up with is to not write anything off too early since I had no idea she was going to keep drinking and open up later in the night. And to not make assumptions, since I thought the likelihood of bang was low since she's a nanny here with the host dad of the family.

Also keep gaming instead of having 'normal' conversation. Where does asking her "what are you gonna do when you finish studying, go straight into work or travel for a bit" fit on game? Boring conversation? I asked that so I could then go off on a tangent about travel etc. I didn't go into 'games' where I hold her hand and pretend to read her future or palm etc since I had already 'rejected' myself.

Post: #2

Quote:I've been overthinking this

Exactly.

Post: #3

Lo you approach a girl then leave her for your friend, you need to work on your confidence.

Post: #4

I dunno man, you shouldn't be defending your 'friend' and trying to rationalize his comments. None of my good buddies has even in their most drunken state said the shit your 'friend' did. Time to find a new wingman.

Re. gaming - there's no need for you to act like a clown and constantly be coming up with witty jokes and such, it's OK to have a regular conversation interspersed with the occasional humorous comment. If she expects standup-comedian level shit then you're wasting your time on her, when you could be gaming a more worthwhile prospect. Besides, if a girl's into you she'll laugh at the stupidest of your jokes.

So in that sense, yeah, don't overthink it...

PS: nanny's are great, I've hooked up with a few and they're just as DTF as any other type of girl. Logistics can be a bitch with them though since they can get tasked with house duties pretty much at any time

Post: #5

(04-02-2017 12:02 PM)jselysianeagle Wrote:  I dunno man, you shouldn't be defending your 'friend' and trying to rationalize his comments. None of my good buddies has even in their most drunken state said the shit your 'friend' did. Time to find a new wingman.

^This.

Your "friend" isnt a friend. What he is is a cunty douche

Post: #6

You were talking to the same girl for 2-3 hours? Was she the only girl in the bar? After 10-15 minutes (probably not even that long) you should have decided your plan for the night and executed it. Too much of at time investment for no return.

Post: #7

Judging by your post, you bring wayyy to much rationality to Gaming my man! You probably have an extremely rational job.. but when you ain't working you

gotta learn how to turn that off since... it won't help you to smash in the field. Your friend is a young upbeat kinda guy... and that's why he's having success. Learn how to be similar to him, while being yourself.

Post: #8

The one who approaches gets first pick. So yes, if this girl was alone and YOU approached her then she is yours to lose. Now if she chose your friend over you, then you lost...fair and square. No hard feelings.

However in your story it sounds like you just assumed she would pick your friend over you. But you also make it sound like you both were boring her...if YOU noticed this, this was your opportunity to stand out and take command. Do/say something to stand out and take her interest.

Logistics are important yes, but that's like step 9 of 10 and you guys weren't even past step 3.

Work on your confidence and take control of the conversation. Use this experience as a learning lesson and improve on it.

Post: #9

Did your friend get the bang?

Post: #10

never mind the over analysis, did your mate get the bang?


ps its the girl who chooses who she bangs!

Post: #11

Rats right, it's ultimately up to the girl to decide who she wants to go home with. If she wanted you she wouldn't have cared about a 39 minute cab ride.

Post: #12

(04-03-2017 09:34 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  Rats right, it's ultimately up to the girl to decide who she wants to go home with. If she wanted you she wouldn't have cared about a 39 minute cab ride.

This. I first heard the idea from Supreme that "women do the choosing" and six years later I have yet to hear any convincing argument otherwise. They will move mountains for you if they're attracted enough.


For your friend. I do NOT like the guy. It sounds like he's a bit too desperate to be liked that he's willing to shit on you.

Here's my general rules that I see as being fair: The guy the woman shows more interest in should be allowed to take the lead, if one guy blows out then it's fair game, don't skip the line, and support each other as much as possible

You shouldn't be offended that your friend stepped in once you saw you were hitting a rough patch. You SHOULD be offended that his "game" was to shit on you and put you down.


Also don't feel that you need to go with a wingman. If you really want to grow your game try going out alone.

Post: #13

(04-02-2017 10:48 PM)Turnus Wrote:  You were talking to the same girl for 2-3 hours? Was she the only girl in the bar? After 10-15 minutes (probably not even that long) you should have decided your plan for the night and executed it. Too much of at time investment for no return.

Yea lesson learned. I have a scarcity mentality - I thought "ok, this girl is friendly and is talking, I better stay". My friend actually said to me as I was about to leave that I should talk to other girls. He's absolutely right, but I also thought, well easy for you to say since you can't approach.

(04-03-2017 05:12 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  Judging by your post, you bring wayyy to much rationality to Gaming my man! You probably have an extremely rational job.. but when you ain't working you

gotta learn how to turn that off since... it won't help you to smash in the field. Your friend is a young upbeat kinda guy... and that's why he's having success. Learn how to be similar to him, while being yourself.

You are correct - I work in STEM and have been told that I'm way too logical whereas women run on emotions.

(04-03-2017 08:49 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  However in your story it sounds like you just assumed she would pick your friend over you. But you also make it sound like you both were boring her...if YOU noticed this, this was your opportunity to stand out and take command. Do/say something to stand out and take her interest.
...
Work on your confidence and take control of the conversation. Use this experience as a learning lesson and improve on it.

I do suffer from very poor self esteem, self image and confidence. I don't think women could find me attractive and that is why I assumed she would pick my friend over me - despite the fact she didn't seem to be showing any real iois for either of us until perhaps a bit later. For anyone reading, this is an example of how beliefs create your reality, and my own limiting beliefs forged my reality that night, but I'm sure everyone on this forum is well aware of this and have used it to their advantage!

I got MikeCF's Gorilla Mindset and read it several months ago, but I obviously haven't been putting it into practice otherwise I'd be better now. I'll read it again after my current book.

I'm just at a loss on how to improve my self confidence - I have successes in other areas of my life, I recently passed a martial arts grading, but I didn't really feel that boosted me, despite having to work for it.

This thread here
/thread-37819.html
captures it perfectly, that no matter how great your life is going, I can never really seem to shake the feeling that my lack of success with women is tainting other parts of my life that should otherwise bring me joy.

I'm not really enjoying life at the moment because of this treadmill of self improvement (where the pace increases with every year as it is basically an arms race). Life is supposedly about the journey, not the destination, but I feel like I've been in a state of striving and never arriving for too long.

(04-03-2017 05:45 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Did your friend get the bang?

(04-03-2017 08:19 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  never mind the over analysis, did your mate get the bang?

He told me no.

(04-03-2017 09:34 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  Rats right, it's ultimately up to the girl to decide who she wants to go home with. If she wanted you she wouldn't have cared about a 39 minute cab ride.

You're right. Its not as if she would instantly be down for sex upon hearing his place was 5 mins away, conversely if she liked me, the distance to my place wouldn't have an affect.

Additional insights from the replies:
-No need to stay talking to the same girl the whole night.
-Get out of my head - just because something shit happens for 5 minutes doesn't mean I need to write off the whole night emotionally, or check out. If someone handed me $86,400, but I lost $300 due to my own stupidity, I wouldn't then burn the rest of the money. There are 86,400 seconds in a day.
-Sometimes other people can wrong you as well, even friends. Whenever I make mistakes, even the smallest or inconsequential, I feel like I get called out on it, all out of proportion to the actual mistake. However I never do the same to others, (berate them or belittle them) when I see them making mistakes because I'm not a cunty douche. It felt nice writing that out.

Thanks for your wisdom, now it is just a case of remembering it and keeping it in my mind.