Post: #1

Straight to the point: so I've been dating this girl for more than a year now, and I think now it's the time to decide whether she is truly wife material or not. I am in love with her, and that might be coding my judgement, but I am also a rational being and thus have decided to think this through. Hopefully some of you guys have thoughts.

She's half Slavic and half American, attractive (classically an 8, but my type 9), very sweet and passive, not a gold-digger (from a wealthy family), she went to an Ivy-league and is very intelligent but isn't a feminist, she is family-oriented and wants to get married.

Despite all these good qualities, when she is very a very sexual person and when she was in college she had sex with around 15 guys. Her notch count is 18. (She's 25 yo)

Mitigatory factors:
1. 90% of them were during the first two years when she was depressed, and then she had long term relationships.
2. she had really bad sex before me. I can confirm that based on how awful she was when we first started having sex and how surprised she was to sex feeling so good (she's obviously a sub, and I'm very dominant in bed).

Anyway, what are your thoughts? Are the mitigatory factors good enough? What should I be in the look out for in order to figure this one out? Any specific things I should prod her about?

Cheers!

Post: #2

How many of these guys does she still have contact with ?

Post: #3

How old are you and how old is she?

Post: #4

I also suggest reading this related thread, you might find some answers about the the dicks taken to LTR worthy material

/thread-52948...pid1518775

Dream's write up is pretty interesting.

Post: #5

(02-28-2017 02:20 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  How many of these guys does she still have contact with ?

Only with her last boyfriend.

Oh, and she's 25 yo.

Post: #6

(02-28-2017 02:54 PM)mensch Wrote:  

(02-28-2017 02:20 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  How many of these guys does she still have contact with ?

Only with her last boyfriend.

Oh, and she's 25 yo.

Why is she in contact with an ex boyfriend at all ?

How long has this been going on ?

Your entire relationship ? Have you met her ex ?

Post: #7

(02-28-2017 02:56 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(02-28-2017 02:54 PM)mensch Wrote:  

(02-28-2017 02:20 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  How many of these guys does she still have contact with ?

Only with her last boyfriend.

Oh, and she's 25 yo.

Why is she in contact with an ex boyfriend at all ?

How long has this been going on ?

Your entire relationship ? Have you met her ex ?

Yeah, I don't like it at all. They're friends and he lives in another country. She wanted to meet with him when she was in the same city and I told her not to, so she didn't. I haven't met him.

Post: #8

Women can keep the fires stoked for for men across borders. You know, because....internet. Don't think it won't throw a wrench in the works. You could very well just be a placeholder guy while she figures out how to reunite with him for happily ever after.

Post: #9

(02-28-2017 02:51 PM)kaotic Wrote:  I also suggest reading this related thread, you might find some answers about the the dicks taken to LTR worthy material

/thread-52948...pid1518775

Dream's write up is pretty interesting.

I agree that's an interesting write up. I'd say she has incredibly high agreeableness (very high emotional attachment), and is very attached to me and her family.

Two warning signs though: what made her do this, according to her was her depression (so is she prone to this again?). And I'm not sure about her conscientiousness... It's a characteristic she admires and she does take work seriously, but at times it's unclear whether she is conscientious or not.

Post: #10

It's been my experience that high dick count is the most egregious of LTR-worthy violations. It sucks because basically every chick out there outside of Saudi Arabia has been chain smoking pole since their teens. So what's a guy to do?

He can either:

Rationalize

or

Jump into the deep end of player lifestyle, offering no commitment whatsoever.

Is there a grey area? Of course there is. But this is where we all seem to run into trouble.

But we're not made of stone here, at least I'm not. If you are banging a chick for long enough you will develop some kind of pair bond, and eventually that will lead to emotional investment, and it's concomitant pain, one way or the other.

So if your doubts about her are strong enough that you need to seek outside input on what is a situation entirely unique to you, her and the context of the relationship, that needs to be taken into consideration.

I won't pretend I have the answers here. Only more questions...

Post: #11

(02-28-2017 03:06 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  It's been my experience that high dick count is the most egregious of LTR-worthy violations. It sucks because basically every chick out there outside of Saudi Arabia has been chain smoking pole since their teens. So what's a guy to do?

He can either:

Rationalize

or

Jump into the deep end of player lifestyle, offering no commitment whatsoever.

Is there a grey area? Of course there is. But this is where we all seem to run into trouble.

But we're not made of stone here, at least I'm not. If you are banging a chick for long enough you will develop some kind of pair bond, and eventually that will lead to emotional investment, and it's concomitant pain, one way or the other.

So if your doubts about her are strong enough that you need to seek outside input on what is a situation entirely unique to you, her and the context of the relationship, that needs to be taken into consideration.

I won't pretend I have the answers here. Only more questions...

I absolutely agree, and I'd go even further. The few that do have a low notch count are mostly boring and uninteresting (maybe there's a unicorn out there, but hey...). Most of the cool, intelligent, non-fundementalist religious girls are banging guys like there's no tomorrow.

But here's the tricky situation: I'd very much like to have a family and a companion who is intelligent and I can share things with.
Even if it lasts for a decade or so (I don't need necessarily to die with the same person), it's something I'd like to have and that I believe can be healthy for men. Or at least for me in particular.

Post: #12

(02-28-2017 03:06 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  It's been my experience that high dick count is the most egregious of LTR-worthy violations. It sucks because basically every chick out there outside of Saudi Arabia has been chain smoking pole since their teens. So what's a guy to do?

He can either:

Rationalize

or

Jump into the deep end of player lifestyle, offering no commitment whatsoever.

Is there a grey area? Of course there is. But this is where we all seem to run into trouble.

But we're not made of stone here, at least I'm not. If you are banging a chick for long enough you will develop some kind of pair bond, and eventually that will lead to emotional investment, and it's concomitant pain, one way or the other.

So if your doubts about her are strong enough that you need to seek outside input on what is a situation entirely unique to you, her and the context of the relationship, that needs to be taken into consideration.

I won't pretend I have the answers here. Only more questions...

"Word Cotton"...but if you spend long enough in that deep end that grey starts to lose most of it's opacity

Post: #13

(02-28-2017 03:00 PM)mensch Wrote:  Yeah, I don't like it at all. They're friends and he lives in another country. She wanted to meet with him when she was in the same city and I told her not to, so she didn't. I haven't met him.

I don't like it all either, they shouldn't be friends, she shouldn't be even ASKING you to meet with him.

Let alone she shouldn't be wanting to meet with him.

She should not be talking to him at all.

(02-28-2017 03:06 PM)mensch Wrote:  I agree that's an interesting write up. I'd say she has incredibly high agreeableness (very high emotional attachment), and is very attached to me and her family.

Two warning signs though: what made her do this, according to her was her depression (so is she prone to this again?). And I'm not sure about her conscientiousness... It's a characteristic she admires and she does take work seriously, but at times it's unclear whether she is conscientious or not.

If she's emotionally attached - why is she talking to her ex still ?

She might be prone to depression, but I'm not sure, it could be a one time thing, I'm not a doctor and don't know her history.

Post: #14

(02-28-2017 03:46 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(02-28-2017 03:00 PM)mensch Wrote:  Yeah, I don't like it at all. They're friends and he lives in another country. She wanted to meet with him when she was in the same city and I told her not to, so she didn't. I haven't met him.

I don't like it all either, they shouldn't be friends, she shouldn't be even ASKING you to meet with him.

Let alone she shouldn't be wanting to meet with him.

She should not be talking to him at all.

(02-28-2017 03:06 PM)mensch Wrote:  I agree that's an interesting write up. I'd say she has incredibly high agreeableness (very high emotional attachment), and is very attached to me and her family.

Two warning signs though: what made her do this, according to her was her depression (so is she prone to this again?). And I'm not sure about her conscientiousness... It's a characteristic she admires and she does take work seriously, but at times it's unclear whether she is conscientious or not.

If she's emotionally attached - why is she talking to her ex still ?

She might be prone to depression, but I'm not sure, it could be a one time thing, I'm not a doctor and don't know her history.

OP, your answer has been provided above by "kaotic"^^.

Post: #15

All women are going to have a sky high notch count.

So if you want a LTR/marriage etc you are going to have to get over the mental blockage of taking your turn on the puss.

No doubt she has to do the same for your well used cock.

Its not 1864 any more.

Post: #16

(02-28-2017 04:49 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  All women are going to have a sky high notch count.

So if you want a LTR/marriage etc you are going to have to get over the mental blockage of taking your turn on the puss.

No doubt she has to do the same for your well used cock.

Its not 1864 any more.

I don't think ALL women - as you can see on this forum some guys locked down and married a virgin.

The probability is extremely high that yes they'll have more than a few dicks.

In the western world it's something most players have come to accept.

Others go east to look for marriage material.

18 dicks isn't "that" high - this of course depends on your definition of what number is a high notch count.

It's not something you can block out, but it's something you just have to roll off your back.

BUT - men should strive to find women who are virgins, low notch count FOR THE PURPOSE OF STARTING A FAMILY.

Post: #17

(02-28-2017 04:49 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  All women are going to have a sky high notch count.

So if you want a LTR/marriage etc you are going to have to get over the mental blockage of taking your turn on the puss.

No doubt she has to do the same for your well used cock.

Apples and orangutans my friend

Post: #18

(02-28-2017 04:49 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  All women are going to have a sky high notch count.

So if you want a LTR/marriage etc you are going to have to get over the mental blockage of taking your turn on the puss.

No doubt she has to do the same for your well used cock.

Its not 1864 any more.

Is this a joke?

If you're serious, you should be changing your profile pic from a rat to a hamster.

Post: #19

(02-28-2017 05:04 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

(02-28-2017 04:49 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  All women are going to have a sky high notch count.

So if you want a LTR/marriage etc you are going to have to get over the mental blockage of taking your turn on the puss.

No doubt she has to do the same for your well used cock.

Its not 1864 any more.

Is this a joke?

If you're serious, you should be changing your profile pic from a rat to a hamster.

I second that. I down-vote his post adamantly.

We get your point, rat, but it's not entirely true, though common and majority, I get it. I'm constantly looking at possibilities like this but the culture here in America gets in the way. You almost certainly have to have girls religiously raised and quiet (that's what I've found) in order to avoid the college cock carousel. What else do these girls have? Usually tight families and they are at home, commuter or otherwise. Basically, they are on lock down but don't know it. It's true, these are diamonds in the rough, and my only lament is that it's tough to get past other people's attempts to block you from access, they even try to tell the girls that a big age difference is weird. And I don't look anywhere near the age I am, though I'm 16 years older than they are, lol

It's funny, the only person that aggressively suggested (she's joking but not really) that I marry her daughter is my friend's wife from Central America! He and I are the same age, his daughter is ... like 11. LOL. It's actually refreshing because it spits so in the face of this culture. It's old school. Parents trust someone, they and everyone else make it work. Unlike this depraved culture where people who don't believe in anything think they can ... yeah right

Post: #20

I think it's still possible to find low notch women out there but it's harder than it was in years past. My ex wife that I met 20 years ago had a notch count of 3 or 4. My first girlfriend was a virgin and we un-virgined each other (over 30 years ago). In my mind, 18 is a pretty high notch count but relative to today's standards it may not be. All I know is that at my age, having done the ltr/wife thing, I'm glad I don't have to look for a low notch girl in this day and age. But I think they can still be found, just not on Tinder or in bars which is where most guys are looking unfortunately.

Post: #21

(02-28-2017 04:49 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  All women are going to have a sky high notch count.

So if you want a LTR/marriage etc you are going to have to get over the mental blockage of taking your turn on the puss.

No doubt she has to do the same for your well used cock.

Its not 1864 any more.

One is an appendage penetrating and doing the ole smashing.

The other is getting smashed, stretched, worn, and jizzed into.

This aint rocket surgery my friend.

Post: #22

To the OP, you already know the answer, that's why you made this thread in the first place.

1. She has a history of psychological issues. Red Flag #1.

2. 18 partners is an insanely high amount, she views sex as a recreational activity, not as something you do with a person you love. You think that's going to change once you put a ring on it? No, it won't. You aren't her first, and if you think you'll be her last, you're delusional. Think about how many times you'll be walking around town with your arm around her and a shit-eating grin on your face, by the time you get from one side of town to the other, she'll have made eye contact with 6 guys that had anal sex with her, and two she went ass to mouth with. You'll be asking her about groceries and she'll be thinking about dick #9, the one you just walked by at the grocery aisle, the one she just told you was "just an old friend." Right. Red Flag #2.

Also, why would you want to be #18? Have you ever seen a significant prize given for 18th place? Hell no! 1st, 2nd, 3rd, sure, but 18th? You know what #18 gets? He gets to be a loser.

Don't be a loser.

3. She's talking to her old boyfriend, basically, she thinks you're a tool, she has no respect for you. Not only is she chatting with him, she wanted to meet up with him, she wanted you to be ok with her getting her sexual needs met by him while you serve as her emotional tampon and beta-provider. Red Flag #3.

Anything's possible, but the most likely outcome here is negative, with you ending up in the Finding a Wife Abroad Thread ten years from now, ten years older and with parasitic child support payments, custody battles, and a daily output of drama and hate having worn you down into a shadow of the man you are now.

Or it could turn out awesome, she might be "The One," after all.

TLDR: Have fun with her if you want, enjoy your turn while it lasts, but you are being gamed by a monster in the guise of a beautiful woman.

Post: #23

Having sex when she’s depressed gives an indication of low self-esteem. When time passes by she will probably feel depressed or bored again and she might see sex with random guys as a tool to cope with those feelings. Even if everything is fine now, her past instabilities will eventually pop up again. So she’s a big risk if you plan on starting a stable family with her. Even more when she is an 8 like describe her. She will get attention and temptation.

18 is a high notch count, even for a western European country. It really isn’t hard to find a 25 year old girl with a notch count below 5.

I don’t believe that sex with all the guys before you was bad. 18 guys can’t all be bad… I can imagine you must feel good for believing your dick were her best one. Remember that you are not a special snowflake and she’s done many things and has many sexual memories she will never ever tell you. She’s just playing you.

Maybe she played the innocent virgin type when you first had sex? She knows many guys get off of that and she also knows that appearing too experienced gives a slutty vibe, which is bad if see saw you as a relationship type of guy. At least she framed her past in a way to not hurt your ‘alpha feelings’. Some women don’t even care to hide their slutty side anymore.

Ask yourself: Would you tolerate the same from a 6? Pretty girls can make our hamsters spin hard :-)

Having contact and wanting to meet up with her ex-boyfriend is indeed a bad sign. If she’s completely devoted to you and the relationship, she would have stopped the contact after a short conversation. I read somewhere on the forum that women are like monkeys: they never let go of a branch before they take the next one. Maybe she has a collection of her guys on Facebook without you knowing about it?

You describe her as a ‘sub’… there’s plenty of low notch count girls that want to be a ’sub’, inside and outside the bedroom. It’s even easier with good girls than girls with high notch counts. High notch count means a higher barrier due to emotional baggage. They don’t want to be dominated anymore because when it’s over they feel used. And they know it will probably end anyway. Good girls aim to please you. They don’t have the experience of being burned by an alpha guy before and therefore less guarded.

It’s indeed a tradeoff: boring good girl vs. wild bad girl. But relationships will always get boring after a couple of years anyway. Ask yourself what you want: Do you want to play around? Don’t care to divorce when you have children?... Or do you look for a commitment for life without drama?

One last question: Would you accept the same past and behavior from a 6? Pretty girls can make the male hamster spin pretty hard.

Post: #24

(02-28-2017 03:06 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  But we're not made of stone here, at least I'm not. If you are banging a chick for long enough you will develop some kind of pair bond, and eventually that will lead to emotional investment, and it's concomitant pain, one way or the other.

That's how they get you.

Don't Bang Crazy.

An old acquaintance messaged me today, I hadn't seen him since 2008. In 2008 he was just coming off of a divorce, but fit, and rebuilding his life, getting back on track.

His message to me recently? His ex-wife, who he married because, in his words, "she was a fellow Christian," had committed a crime involving his daughter, a crime which made the papers, while she was intoxicated with her new shaved-head, bearded boyfriend, and my acquaintance was down to grasping at straws to find money for an attorney, to try to save his daughter from more chaos in her environment.

The man is out of shape, can't focus, and financially destroyed. He probably hasn't had a clear thought in his head in years.

Look, betas are going to beta, but it's my hope that a few of them will read the stuff on the forum and avoid a lifetime of misery.

The guys here talking about "get with the times, man," "all women are sluts," "it's ok because I'm more alpha than the rest," those guys have no clue how hard their ass is going to get destroyed, their lack of self-control in regards to pussy and a feeling of invincibility blinds them to what lies on the road ahead.

That, or they're judgment proof and have a high tolerance for a low-quality life.

The rules on what qualities make for a good wife were written far before our time, by men far wiser than any of us, and the human species has not fundamentally changed since then.

The men that wrote these rules were trying to give future generations a leg up, if our egos persuade us to disregard their advice, we do so at our own peril.

Post: #25

After 1 year together does she spontaneously offer you blowjobs (to completion) without being asked ?
If yes, how many times per month ?

That is one key area where you find out how truly submissive she really is.


Another one is this...does she cook and clean for you ?