Post: #1

Noobie 21 year old virgin here. After doing a lot of reading, I think I suffer from the titular condition. If you to ask me "Do you want to be successful with women" My immediate response would be "Hell yeah" but looking back ice I'm starting to realize I've actually sabotaged myself a fair number of times with girls who showed genuine interest in me. I avoided/rejected them with excuses like "I'm not attracted to her" or "it would never work." I've struggled a lot with fear, and I think a big one is that I'm simply afraid to get close to another human being that way. When I was younger I developed feelings for a girl or two that I shouldn't have, and I simply don't trust myself. Plus when you care about someone, you are now vunerable.

Sorry to sound like a downer, but I think this is impeding my self inmprovement, so I was wondering if any of you ever had this problem/know how to overcome it.

Post: #2

As soon as you have sex with 5-10 women you will know the score. Your feelings won't kill you and soon enough you will learn to keep them in check. Go read the "vile sluts that take more dick than a urinal" thread and the "scandelous things women say" thread. You'll find it hard to take the whole romance thing seriously after that and then really realize when you find a girl you fundementally like and understand.

Post: #3

Thanks man, I'll go read that.

Post: #4

delete

Post: #5

There's no magic way to overcome this. You just have to say "fuck it" and face your fears. Do not feel down if you fail. Realize that you're just starting and failing is expected. As long as you try it's fine. If you must, go cry on a soft pillow one night. It might help you. Next day try to pull out some lessons out of that experience. Then try again. That's pretty much the standard process of overcoming something or learning new things on your own.

Basically it's about doing it against your fears and feelings. You can't eliminate or mute your emotions. You can't fight them. You can only accept them now, let go and do the things you want to do.

Non resistance is very powerful no matter what you want to try. It's that "I suck I know but let's go" approach. Only once you stop resisting it and admit it to yourself what's up, you can break free.

Post: #6

(12-29-2016 04:07 PM)InjunJoe95 Wrote:  Noobie 21 year old virgin here. After doing a lot of reading, I think I suffer from the titular condition. If you to ask me "Do you want to be successful with women" My immediate response would be "Hell yeah" but looking back ice I'm starting to realize I've actually sabotaged myself a fair number of times with girls who showed genuine interest in me. I avoided/rejected them with excuses like "I'm not attracted to her" or "it would never work." I've struggled a lot with fear, and I think a big one is that I'm simply afraid to get close to another human being that way. When I was younger I developed feelings for a girl or two that I shouldn't have, and I simply don't trust myself. Plus when you care about someone, you are now vunerable.

Sorry to sound like a downer, but I think this is impeding my self inmprovement, so I was wondering if any of you ever had this problem/know how to overcome it.

I'm prepared to be wrong on this, but my gut's telling me you're sabotaging yourself/passing over girls because you're overvaluing your own virginity and don't want to give it up to the "wrong" person. I'm not telling you to go out a fuck some she-beast just to swipe your v-card, but don't hold out for a perfect "10" either. There's a spectrum there with plenty of middle ground in between -- that's where I'd recommend you start.

You need some sexual experience. The longer you go without it, the more awkward you're going to feel and the more difficult it'll become to get it. You're far from old, so you've got plenty of time to work on it -- but I wouldn't put it off any longer. As a guy, your virginity isn't a prize some girl would be happy to claim, in fact, quite the contrary. There will be girls who won't want to have anything to do with you because you're a virgin. My advice would be to keep your mouth shut about it.

When it comes to actually having sex for the first time, don't be concerned about your performance. Your primary objective is to explore uncharted territory and thereby remove your fear of the unknown. There will be plenty of time for great sex later. A girl won't be able to tell if you're a virgin or just a lousy lay -- and who knows, you might just surprise yourself and do better than you expect.

Post: #7

I think you have a point there. I wasn't consciously thinking it, but I think I have an aversion to giving it up to someone I don't particularly care about. But you're right, things need to change.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm scared shitless at the thought of approaching when I get back to school next month (girls and logistics are both extremely scarce where I am at the moment).

Post: #8

Get rid of your virginity OP.
For a man, it's of no value; just a mental masturbation tool which prevents you from moving forward.

Post: #9

(12-29-2016 06:07 PM)InjunJoe95 Wrote:  I think you have a point there. I wasn't consciously thinking it, but I think I have an aversion to giving it up to someone I don't particularly care about. But you're right, things need to change.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm scared shitless at the thought of approaching when I get back to school next month (girls and logistics are both extremely scarce where I am at the moment).

At least you're willing to admit it, that's a huge step in the right direction. The next step being proactive in doing something about it. Trust me, these girls you're passing over now you'll one day look back and regret not tagging. The likelihood of you having a lifelong relationship with the first person you sleep with is slim-to-none, so why put so much emphasis on selecting the "right" person to bust that first nut?

Game is a journey. On that journey, you'll not only learn about the true nature of women, but you'll also discover yourself as well. You'll find out what you like and what you don't like, what you're willing to put up with and what you won't, etc. Experience is a great teacher, and in time, you'll learn how to more effectively screen for quality women. Don't let your fear deny you the right to make your life an adventure, as well as a journey of self-discovery.

Post: #10

Everything and I mean EVERYTHING in life we do (or don't do) stems from the constant war between FEAR and DESIRE. Your struggle is just that.

You want to know the ultimate strategy to happiness in life? You ready? Here it is:

Enjoy your successes but don't give a shit about your failures.

...because you (we all) will have both on this journey

There it is in all it's elegant simplicity.

Post: #11

Thanks guys!

Post: #12

(12-29-2016 04:07 PM)InjunJoe95 Wrote:  Noobie 21 year old virgin here. After doing a lot of reading, I think I suffer from the titular condition. If you to ask me "Do you want to be successful with women" My immediate response would be "Hell yeah" but looking back ice I'm starting to realize I've actually sabotaged myself a fair number of times with girls who showed genuine interest in me. I avoided/rejected them with excuses like "I'm not attracted to her" or "it would never work." I've struggled a lot with fear, and I think a big one is that I'm simply afraid to get close to another human being that way. When I was younger I developed feelings for a girl or two that I shouldn't have, and I simply don't trust myself. Plus when you care about someone, you are now vulnerable.

Sorry to sound like a downer, but I think this is impeding my self improvement, so I was wondering if any of you ever had this problem/know how to overcome it.

There are a few ways to look at this. You could either be avoiding them because you simply didn't like them, because of other reasons, or as an excuse to avoid 'future failure' IE you don't value yourself highly enough to believe doing well with said girls will be a possibility. Or it could be a fear like you said.

No matter what it is the prescription is a big old dose of approaching, so you can either value yourself higher, get rid of the fears, and learn to not give a fuck. You may find out you do have some quirks related to who you'll date, maybe even odd tastes, but so long as you don't let fear drive you and make an effort to get out there you'll be a lot happier. It will take time, you will not make approaches you shouldn't have, especially at first. When that happens don't beat yourself up over it, but make sure you do your best not to let it happen again.

Post: #13

The problem appears to be that you have an extremely effeminate way of thinking. 'Fear of intimacy' is one of those nasty phrases that every busted bitch closing in on the wall uses to try to goad a normal guy who doesn't want to pay over the odds for the few withered delights she has left to peddle. It is entirely normal and healthy for a young man to be wary of being sucked into something that limits his options and narrows his experience of life. Girls are incredibly time consuming things if you take them too seriously, or allow yourself to become tangled in their webs.

It also sounds like you've become hung up on being a virgin, and are rationalising your fear of trying to get laid for the first time. No doubt you're all wrought up in your head over what happens if you look a fool, or finish too soon, or your dick isn't as big as what she's used to, or all the other dumb shit most guys get themselves into a complete state over - even guys who get laid regularly. You should just let all of that go.

I am certain that part of the problem with our generation is that we've been brought up, indoctrinated, to regard women as equals in all things. This would have been unfathomable to men even a couple of generations ago. Because we've been brought up to think this way we treat women inappropriately - we treat them as though they are funny, interesting people who know things we might be interested in, and then we find them wanting (if ever there were an understatement). We wonder why they don't respond to questions about business, sport, history, science - why they show almost no curiosity for why things work a certain way or how a man managed to do something cool, and why, as a sex, they literally know next to nothing; particularly the expensively educated ones. Our relation to women is off, incorrect, and fundamentally unattractive *to them*.

Next time a girl talks to you, forget about the 'substance' of her conversation - ask yourself in your head whether you would like to fuck this girl, and how. Carry out a full assessment right there and then. Look at her legs, stomach, tits, face, bum if you can see it, the width of her shoulders, her skin, her hair, her fingernails - take it all in and come to a conclusion over the course of the conversation on whether you'd fuck her and how you'd do it. This should put you in the appropriate state of mind, get your dick twitching, and give you the correct expression you should have on your face when dealing with a chick - that of a predator contemplating its prey.

Post: #14

OP

Welcome to the forum. Alot of really solid advice from experienced men there. Have you considered taking a nice vacation somewhere? My advice is take a trip to a place like the Philippines. The women are pretty and easy. After my divorce I took my first trip abroad and it completely changed my life. The one thing I always liked about the phils is you really don't need much game. Just show up and be yourself.

If you follow the advice of the senior members on the forum and read the datasheets carefully, you can have a pretty girl waiting at the airport upon arrival.

Good luck

Post: #15

(12-29-2016 06:40 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Everything and I mean EVERYTHING in life we do (or don't do) stems from the constant war between FEAR and DESIRE. Your struggle is just that.

You want to know the ultimate strategy to happiness in life? You ready? Here it is:

Enjoy your successes but don't give a shit about your failures.

...because you (we all) will have both on this journey

There it is in all it's elegant simplicity.

How would the OP know if the excuse that for example "I'm not attractive to the girl" or "this would never work" are incorrect and stems from his fear or if the excuse is actually true and legit?

The OP's excuse not to continue persuing a girl could either be legitimately true or it's his fear that gives him an excuse that is not true. The problem seems to be that the OP can't discern the origin of the excuse in an actual live situation.

Afterwards when the girl no longer poses a threat to the OP's "intimacy" the OP seems to be able to assess the situation more correct. But then it's too late.

You can't tell the OP to always go for it. There will always be situations when the OP legitimately should actually not pursue a girl.

Post: #16

While I'm all for vacations, I simply don't have the time, money, or freedom to be traveling to other countries. Maybe in a few years :/

And Cheetah is right, my brain is my own worst enemy because it rationalizes excuses about why I really don't have to talk to that girl. Because I'm very inexperienced, I suffer a lot of doubt in this area. I CAN objectively say I am not interested in overweight or excessively pierced/tatted girls or downright wierd looking ones. I know beggars can't be choosers, but I'm pretty sure my hand would feel better.

Post: #17

(12-30-2016 04:37 AM)Cheetah Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 06:40 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Everything and I mean EVERYTHING in life we do (or don't do) stems from the constant war between FEAR and DESIRE. Your struggle is just that.

You want to know the ultimate strategy to happiness in life? You ready? Here it is:

Enjoy your successes but don't give a shit about your failures.

...because you (we all) will have both on this journey

There it is in all it's elegant simplicity.

How would the OP know if the excuse that for example "I'm not attractive to the girl" or "this would never work" are incorrect and stems from his fear or if the excuse is actually true and legit?

The OP's excuse not to continue persuing a girl could either be legitimately true or it's his fear that gives him an excuse that is not true. The problem seems to be that the OP can't discern the origin of the excuse in an actual live situation.

Afterwards when the girl no longer poses a threat to the OP's "intimacy" the OP seems to be able to assess the situation more correct. But then it's too late.

You can't tell the OP to always go for it. There will always be situations when the OP legitimately should actually not pursue a girl.

Are there certain girls OP should avoid pursuing? Sure. But at this point he's a 21-year-old virgin, so he's better off taking a shot than continuing along his path of "analysis paralysis."

Quote:“Think of it this way: There are two kinds of failure. The first comes from never trying out your ideas because you are afraid, or because you are waiting for the perfect time. This kind of failure you can never learn from, and such timidity will destroy you. The second kind comes from a bold and venturesome spirit. If you fail in this way, the hit that you take to your reputation is greatly outweighed by what you learn. Repeated failure will toughen your spirit and show you with absolute clarity how things must be done.”
― Robert Greene

Post: #18

"Analysis paralysis". I like that.

Post: #19

(12-30-2016 04:37 AM)Cheetah Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 06:40 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Everything and I mean EVERYTHING in life we do (or don't do) stems from the constant war between FEAR and DESIRE. Your struggle is just that.

You want to know the ultimate strategy to happiness in life? You ready? Here it is:

Enjoy your successes but don't give a shit about your failures.

...because you (we all) will have both on this journey

There it is in all it's elegant simplicity.

How would the OP know if the excuse that for example "I'm not attractive to the girl" or "this would never work" are incorrect and stems from his fear or if the excuse is actually true and legit?

The OP's excuse not to continue persuing a girl could either be legitimately true or it's his fear that gives him an excuse that is not true. The problem seems to be that the OP can't discern the origin of the excuse in an actual live situation.

Afterwards when the girl no longer poses a threat to the OP's "intimacy" the OP seems to be able to assess the situation more correct. But then it's too late.

You can't tell the OP to always go for it. There will always be situations when the OP legitimately should actually not pursue a girl.

My point is that we all have a choice whether to let our "fear" or our "desire" rule our lives. This is applicable to every aspect of whether it's trying a business venture, pursuing a passion or in this case pursuing any particular girl. There are no guarantees for success but failure is guaranteed if you don't even try.

And if you "try" at any particular thing and don't succeed...so what? You try again. No one will remember

OP seems to be assuming failure / pain / loss / rejection (negative fear based outcomes) before he even tries

This forum is about "improvement". Improvement means "change for the better". Meaningful change requires "tools". A positive (desire driven) outlook /philosophy vs a negative (fear driven) one is one of the most powerful (I would argue required) tools to effect positive change

But a great life, like a great tree doesn't grow overnight. I'm just trying to plant seeds