Post: #101

I find interesting thing in show that Nazis and Japanese didn't eradicate all radio stations so there are still some stations playing old pre invasion music.

I would like to see in 3rd season explanation of timelines, jumps and learn more about Man in the High Castle.

Post: #102

(12-22-2016 09:22 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  But I would like to disagree with the end-result - what the globalist elite have in store for us will if succeeded BE MUCH MORE TERRIFYING AND STYFLING THAN WHAT THE NAZIS PLANNED.

Eh, I cannot agree on that. As a racial inferior, I don't think that anything the Nazis had in store for me, my family, and my culture would be better than the world we currently live in.

In the current timeline, I'm largely free to go where I please, make as great a living as anyone else, marry/date who I please, make friends with whomever I please, spend my money where I please, and enjoy relatively few limits on my expression, mobility, etc. I am free to enjoy a standard of living as good as any of my peers (regardless of their race) and I have opportunities comparable to them to.

In the world the Nazis had planned, I'm probably one step away from a slave. Best case scenario is that I show enough promise to become some sort of puppet colonial administrator/military officer bowing to Nazis everyday for the sake of my livelihood and survival, reporting to some "racially pure" admin from Berlin whose talents may be limited and whose only real advantage over me may be his ancestry. If I dare to deviate from any of Germania's strict commands regarding conduct and racial purity, I risk my livelihood and life. My standard of living is nowhere near comparable to that of an Aryan or Japanese, whose race alone would put them above me by default regardless of how much capability I prove myself to have.

Worst case scenario (aside from death or sterilization, which were both possible but less likely) is that I'm drafted into some colonial foreign legion and used as cannon fodder, or forced into the vast pool of labor used to uplift the Reich with no chance to really fully enjoy the products of my work (the Nazis in occupied Europe and North America will be the consumers who benefit, and not a one of them will look like me).

Actually, since my parents met in the United States as immigrants from the developing world, there's a good chance I wouldn't exist in a Nazi-run timeline - they would have never left the Caribbean and, assuming they weren't killed by their new Nazi overlords there, they probably would have stayed on their separate islands and never crossed paths. In real life, I was born in New York and have spent most of my existence in the American Northeast. In this timeline, I'd never get to see those places.

All of that is far more terrifying to me than the world we live in. I don't like far-left globalism/regressive leftism/political correctness any more than you lot, but I'm not going to fool myself - I'd rather globalists than Nazis. This show makes me appreciate allied victory even more than I already did, because it illustrates just how much I (and most of the world's people of color) could've lost. We'd be totally fucked in that timeline.

If you're Germanic or Japanese, then perhaps it's a different story. This alternate timeline is a much happier one for you than it would have been for me.

(12-22-2016 12:46 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  Excelsior,

With regard to feminism and counter culture coming to the Reich, sure there would be some rebellion and change, but realize that counter-culture and feminism didn't happen naturally in the Western World. It was subverted by the CIA and Communists and actively shaped so as to become a tool to control society and eventually gain more Government power.

This would not happen in the Reich. For starters, the Reich is already a Totalitarian state that uses the brute force Totalitarianism of "1984". Feminism/Counter-Culture/Social Marxism is Totalitarianism of the "Brave New World" variety.

The Reich is totalitarian, but the generation that built that apparatus and has the greatest commitment to its maintenance is not going to live forever. Their children (who are the ones with the more liberal perspectives) are going to come of age and gain control of that apparatus, and that's when you start seeing real changes. They will spend their entire youth criticizing their parents and coming up with new ideas regarding how to do differently when it's "their turn" (as Nicole says); then they'll gain control and put a lot of those ideas into action, perhaps with influence from thinkers who still exist in the free world (remember that plenty of people are living outside of Reich/Empire control and their music, culture, and ideas are filtering in and being consumed by the youth). The subversives in this universe, just like those in our timelines (read: hippie boomers), are going to come largely from within the society itself, and they'll do most of the damage to the established structure.

The Reich after the death of Himmler and the rest of his generation is going to be a different place. Not our kind of place, but very different nonetheless.

Post: #103

The Japanese empire is probably like a Mongol Yuan Dynasty on steriods. They didn't have the same extermination policies of the Nazis, but there was a definite racial hierarchy of Asians in place (Japanese, Koreans, and other easily-assimilated northern Asians at the top, S Asians at bottom) and this was enforced with a lot of death and torture.

From the map on page 5 it seems like the Japanese have no ICBMs but a much larger and possibly superior navy.

I made it to episode 7 or 8 in the first season, maybe I'll pick it up again. Fascinating stuff.

Post: #104

Excelsior - the globalist elite has an utterly Nazi view in terms of racial purity. The NAZis in fact took their ideas from someone and guess who it was. The globalist elite just push multiculturalism as tool for destruction and not because they love all races so much. The Whites are their biggest enemy and they want to avoid a future rebellion (too smart and individually rebellious - Asians are smart too, but far more conformist).

The end-game future of what the globalists dream will be if given full reign is a Brave New World king of system, where natural births are out, every human is farmed with a given largely predetermined IQ, no families exist anymore, anyone is sexually hyperstimulated since childhood (prepubertal sex prevents most people from binding with a significant other anyway), no travel at all unless ordered or permitted by system etc.

Even the in between system is not better. Also in terms of science - the globalists intend to create this world as an eternal prison. There will be no exploration or conquest of space, only an eternal human global concentration camp for everyone except the upper 0,0001% who will remain free. This is far worse than the Nazis.

Yeah - I get it - the infatuation of the Nazis with race is crap, but at least with the Nazis you have the likelihood that some generation coming after will loosen the reigns significantly, let highly intelligent other tribes take over more over their countries and even reach some kind of equality in the future centuries.

But of course this is just comparing a bad system with a worse one - we can certainly agree that we don't want either of those to exist.

(Also I might add that I believe in reincarnation so you will certainly be reborn as an Aryan in the Nazi system (and the Aryans as a "lesser" race to get a taste of it), but being reborn as an artificially created brainwashed Brave New World slave for millennia is far worse an experience. But hey - that is just me musing - this latter one is not the secular argument I would like to make here - heh.)

-----------

As for feminism - it was financed, created and promoted by the globalists - also the same with the gender-crap and multiculturalism. It would not have happened anywhere fast without the aid of the globalists. Most of the stuff even now would not happen if for example media, entertainment and academia were uttering values like in 1950. A lot of the statements on the show are nowhere how a woman would truly speak because there would be no basis for her words - "woman not wanting to be a wife and mother", "woman wanting to be independent" etc.

Post: #105

(12-23-2016 01:27 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Excelsior - the globalist elite has an utterly Nazi view in terms of racial purity. The NAZis in fact took their ideas from someone and guess who it was. The globalist elite just push multiculturalism as tool for destruction and not because they love all races so much. The Whites are their biggest enemy and they want to avoid a future rebellion (too smart and individually rebellious - Asians are smart too, but far more conformist).

The end-game future of what the globalists dream will be if given full reign is a Brave New World king of system, where natural births are out, every human is farmed with a given largely predetermined IQ, no families exist anymore, anyone is sexually hyperstimulated since childhood (prepubertal sex prevents most people from binding with a significant other anyway), no travel at all unless ordered or permitted by system etc.

Even the in between system is not better. Also in terms of science - the globalists intend to create this world as an eternal prison. There will be no exploration or conquest of space, only an eternal human global concentration camp for everyone except the upper 0,0001% who will remain free. This is far worse than the Nazis.

OK, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. Globalists are problematic for a whole host of reasons, but I've yet to see anything justifying the projected outcomes ("human farming"?) you're illustrating here. I know globalists, and I see little evidence of what you're talking about (particularly the bit about their "Nazi view of racial purity" - their views on racial purity are, and I can say this definitively, decidedly against those promoted by National Socialists). I also, through study, have come to really know Nazis, and I see reams of evidence for the madness they would create and how bad it would be for most (non-Germanic) humans. Our current timeline is far superior to that seen in Man in High Castle, IMO.

Quote:As for feminism - it was financed, created and promoted by the globalists - also the same with the gender-crap and multiculturalism. It would not have happened anywhere fast without the aid of the globalists.

But it would still likely have happened.

Quote:Most of the stuff even now would not happen if for example media, entertainment and academia were uttering values like in 1950. A lot of the statements on the show are nowhere how a woman would truly speak because there would be no basis for her words - "woman not wanting to be a wife and mother", "woman wanting to be independent" etc.

Nicole is an entirely realistic character - raised in peace and tremendous affluence with nothing but time to engage in youthful rebellion and question everything around her. Traditionalist or not, a victorious Reich wouldn't be able to avoid her kind and the changes they'd bring. You don't need subversives from the outside to forment this - the subversion will come primarily from those already living within, just as it did in our timeline. Nicole will be at the front leading this charge in this alternate timeline, and by the time she and her buddies reach Himmler's age they'll have done a lot of damage to the status quo.

(12-22-2016 05:51 PM)Lunostrelki Wrote:  From the map on page 5 it seems like the Japanese have no ICBMs but a much larger and possibly superior navy.

I made it to episode 7 or 8 in the first season, maybe I'll pick it up again. Fascinating stuff.

I don't know about this. My suspicion is that the Japanese navy is, like the Imperial military generally, inferior to that of the Reich due to technological deficiencies. The Nazis in this timeline are well ahead technologically and haven't shared much of that advancement with the Japanese. Japan may very well have a larger navy, but I suspect the Reich has a military advanced enough to overpower it.

Definitely recommend you finish this show off. Must-see TV.

Post: #106

What a finale, raises more questions then answers! Only thing I don't like in the 2nd season is Himmlers actor. I can't imagine Himmler at old age looking like that. Himmler had that "bullied schoolboy hates everyone look".

Post: #107

Finished season 2. Definately enjoyed this season, it was nearly on par with season 1, and the ending sets up season 3 without the use of cliffhangers or other cheap tactics. The production value and acting was overall an improvement over season 1 I thought, though in the first few episodes there are a few cheesy lines. 8.5/10, would recommend.

Post: #108

Just finished both seasons of this show and I am in a state of amazement. I don't know exactly what the angle the creators of this show is, but if it's to show how horrible the world is with Nazi's in control, then they have mostly failed. It's probably why they compared 1962 America with 1962 Reich America, because if they did a comparison to the world they created in the series to the modern day west, a lot of people would be looking around going wtf have we come to... and then start asking hard questions.

I agree with zels take. Although even the current society we have is more free (and yes, still better than the depiction in the series), it's only going to get worse and worse. What the globalists ultimately have planned is far worse than what the Nazi's did or had planned, with a much higher body count (6 million will be childsplay stuff). Enslavement, no families, no religions and a miniscule elite that has no other ideas but their own amusement, self-gratification, greed and power (goodbye to the frontiers of space, humanity, self-improvement, love, sanctity, choice etc..)

This series will be used as a piece of art that described what could have been, in the future decades to come, and will go hand in hand with a softening of the belief, that the Nazi's were horrible unredeemable monsters, as the globalists brave new world really starts to warm up.

The series just as in real life, is filled with shades of gray, it is able to promote sympathy in the villains to the point that even the supposable good guys look just as or even more evil.

Adolf Hitler and Himmler (so far) are presented as rational and in some scenes antiwar figures.

The Nazi's and Japanese also have the best characters and actors. The resistance characters are for the most part forgettable and are not missed when they meet untimely ends.

The show will of course end i'm sure, with the Nazi's and Japanese empires becoming progressive multicultural paradises as is the current requirement from modern entertainment, but in the meantime it has (unintentionally?) woke even some of the people in my household. My old classically liberal father even stated "they make the Reich look so agreeable'. I laughed after I heard that, probably cause "diversity" broke into his garage recently and stole some tools, smashed some stuff. I'm enjoying the journey to that point in the story anyways.

Btw the soundtrack is amazing. Listen to the renditions of "Edelweiss" and especially "Tomorrow belongs to me", haunting and beautiful, music is not made like this anymore. Makes a guy want to stand in formation and bring the west back from annihilation.

Post: #109

[deleted, misread something from phone]

Post: #110

That is the problem there - the makers are tasked with showing the traditional family system as oppressive, but they fail despite their tries. They make it look like the wives are trapped in those great houses and cannot experience the liberating cubicle world out there.

They also try to show that the new German generation is becoming ever more liberal and "free". But of course the reality is that the our current degeneration was state-sponsored and promoted in media, entertainment, education and even politics. Even if a few German Nazi politicians were privately degenerate, a shift on all fronts would be utterly impossible in such a Nazi world.

And as you have pointed out correctly - if they set Nazi World to year 2017, then hardly anyone would see the advantages of our system.

By then the Nazis would have conquered the entire world and started terraforming Mars, having built colonies on the Moon. And they would do it all by promoting families, women still not working en masse and most people being happy (unsure how they would depict the condition of the other races, because the Nazis had a very dark view on that front).

A true technologically advanced society by the way either makes the majority unemployed in the future, kills them off (the plan of our current globalist leaders) - or that society moves into space colonizing and exploring new frontiers.

Post: #111

(04-30-2017 03:39 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  That is the problem there - the makers are tasked with showing the traditional family system as oppressive, but they fail despite their tries. They make it look like the wives are trapped in those great houses and cannot experience the liberating cubicle world out there.

They also try to show that the new German generation is becoming ever more liberal and "free". But of course the reality is that the our current degeneration was state-sponsored and promoted in media, entertainment, education and even politics. Even if a few German Nazi politicians were privately degenerate, a shift on all fronts would be utterly impossible in such a Nazi world....

I'm still not convinced that they actually are trying to pass off the usual message of 'families are stifling', 'degeneracy is great', 'tradition is oppression', etc. and not the opposite.

The young Berliners were presented like the Nazi analogue of hippies: messianic, arrogant, entitled, yet decadent. They were confident in the fact that their generation was special and called by history, and would soon take over the reins of the state and use it to do good (one specifically mentions "saving the environment"). They would repair the mistakes of their preceding "greatest generation" made in building the world around them. But these grand pronouncements are no sooner made by the blonde girl and her friends than they're demonstrating their unsuitability to such grand aims through their degenerate behavior - specifically the drugs, orgies, promiscuity, homosexuality, nihilism, mysticism, etc. that we associate with the Weimar period against which Naziism was in part a reaction.

I look at how that story arc was handled and just can't see it as in any way glorifying their decadence, the way one would expect it to be presented. Joe seems to waver between cautious curiosity and disgust, and ends up rejecting them by clinging sincerely to his good-girl image of Julianna. The blonde in fact comes across as dangerous - where one would expect her to be presented as a stereotypical free spirit hippie chick trying to open Joe's mind to spiritual and sexual liberation (how many times have we seen this stock character in movies and television shows set in the 1960s?), to me she came across as a temptress. And I don't only mean the possibility that she was a Gestapo or factional double-agent attempting to compromise him (a la Julia in "1984"), but in the mythological sense of a Satanic figure trying to entice him to the "dark side".

Likewise, the proto-SJWs portrayed in Tagomi's alternate timeline as working to ban the Bomb come across (through the use of Tagomi as the POV character) as naive, entitled, self-important, and insufferably earnest crusaders. While that fits with Gen Xers like me actually see Boomers, and I strongly suspect is one of the most objectively accurate portrayals of Boomers ever broadcast, you rarely if ever see Boomers (and in particularly their 1960s activism period) portrayed that way in film and television.

If you had told me Tagomi would jump timelines to something resembling ours and encounter a group of young Boomer activist college students, I'd have naturally expected them to be shown as heroic, courageous, and right about everything both factual and moral. I'd have expected them to be presented as wise beyond their years, certainly wiser and more enlightened than the old fuddy-duddy Tagomi-san with his outmoded and ridiculous Imperial militarism and traditional gender and generational roles and expectations. They're 1960s Boomer political activists, after all, full of boundless hope for the future and glorious progressive ideas, their not-quite-visible halos not yet bent by the assassinations of their secular gods and the corrosive effects of The Only War In History That Has Ever Happened Or Mattered. Instead, they come across as insufferable (apart from alt-Julianna). Tagomi is actually put off by his son's attitudes and beliefs, and it's not the moral arguments and precocious wisdom or elven goodness of these obnoxious twats that gets through to Tagomi in the end, but the hard reality of the hydrogen bomb shown in the newsreel. (And even then he isn't persuaded to the kids' position - he averts war, yes, but by using the film as a bluff concerning what the Empire has in hand, rather than the route a stereotypical Boomer would take of using it for purposes of emotional manipulation by showing the immoral end result of a nuclear arms race and the threat to all humanity and the little babies and puppies and such.)

Even the interracial marriage element isn't presented in the usual or expected way - Tagomi (the functionary of a highly racist regime) eventually does come around to accepting his son's marriage and mixed-race child, but it's clearly not because he's been magically persuaded by the saintly Boomer Kidz and their impeccable moral superiority to abandon his racist ways and join the Right Side of History, it's that he has a personal daughterly fondness for Julianna, particularly this alternative Julianna who is happy and innocent in contrast to the troubled and tragic one he knows from his "real" world (ie: he accepts it for personal rather than progressive political or virtue-signalling or conforming-with-social-mood reasons). He is portrayed as being highly disappointed and dismayed with his son, to the point that the original alt-Tagomi threw himself off a bridge, and this is treated (amazingly) as reasonable and understandable rather than with the "you just don't understand, Dad" contempt one would expect. It's almost as though his acceptance involves seeing Julianna as his actual daughter with his biological son as some obnoxious activist dickweed she married.

tl;dr: The German youth are shown as arrogant degenerates and the alternate-American youth as naive fools, exactly the opposite of how Hollywood would usually portray Boomers (or in this case, their analogues).

If MITHC is aiming to sell the usual dyscivic narratives, they're doing a poor job. Thankfully.

Post: #112

I thought the point was to humanize the Nazis, to show that they did have flaws and a cruel idealogy but at the end of day are still people. As many people look back at the Nazis and think that could never happen again as they were pure evil to the core because of how they are portrayed by the media, but in reality it is entirely possible that some group of people could go down a similar path again. Hell even after the Nazis there have been genocides throughout the globe, and it is not impossible that we will not have another genocide in Western society again. That is why I like the show, it shows that these were real people, not that different from us.

Post: #113

Great post, Alsos.

Post: #114

(04-30-2017 09:22 PM)RIslander Wrote:  Great post, Alsos.

Thank you.

Like "Black Mirror", "MITHC" lends itself to all sorts of interesting analyses the deeper you look at it. Makes you weep for what "Lost" could have been with similar-quality writers.

Post: #115

(04-29-2017 04:48 PM)uncledick Wrote:  Just finished both seasons of this show and I am in a state of amazement. I don't know exactly what the angle the creators of this show is, but if it's to show how horrible the world is with Nazi's in control, then they have mostly failed. It's probably why they compared 1962 America with 1962 Reich America, because if they did a comparison to the world they created in the series to the modern day west, a lot of people would be looking around going wtf have we come to... and then start asking hard questions.

I actually ended up doing that myself (comparing the series' world to the present). Asked some hard questions...did not like the answers. I suspect most of the world's current population would not like the answers either.

Quote:I agree with zels take. Although even the current society we have is more free (and yes, still better than the depiction in the series), it's only going to get worse and worse. What the globalists ultimately have planned is far worse than what the Nazi's did or had planned, with a much higher body count (6 million will be childsplay stuff). Enslavement, no families, no religions and a miniscule elite that has no other ideas but their own amusement, self-gratification, greed and power (goodbye to the frontiers of space, humanity, self-improvement, love, sanctity, choice etc..)

1. The Nazi body count was much higher than 6 million. That number represents the figure for Jews massacred, not the total number killed.

2. There is no evidence at all that the bolded is representative of any "globalist" plan. In fact, it appears openly contradictory to said plan.

3. All of the outcomes mentioned in the bolded portion of the paragraph above apply to most of the planet in the universe depicted in "Man in High Castle" (ex: if you are a Jew in that universe, you get no sanctity, choice, humanity, freedom of religion, etc - you're more than likely dead, and so is your family. If you are black, you're probably either close to enslaved, forcibly sterilized, exterminated, or some combination of those things - there's certainly not much in the way of humanity for you [you're less than human by default] and your opportunities for self-improvement and love are vastly more limited than they will probably ever be in our timeline, globalists or no globalists. And if you are a slav, good luck to you in this timeline).

4. In this universe, the Germanics (Nazis) are the greedy, relatively miniscule elite with all of the downsides you mentioned.

I agree that the Nazis and Japanese were the best characters in this series, and I enjoy the depictions of their stories/world more than the rest. They're what I love most of this show.
However, that doesn't blind me to the reality of what I'm watching. I became more appreciative of the timeline we live in as a result of watching this show, not less. The depictions I see in this show are interesting as someone fascinated with alternate reality and the history of Axis powers, but they make it clear why the world we live in is to be appreciated. Our world isn't perfect, but it's much better on the whole than anything a Nazi/Imperial Japan dominated universe could facilitate. I think more folks watching this show are likely to come to that conclusion than they are to instead conclude that the world in this show is worthwhile/superior to our own.

(04-30-2017 03:39 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  And as you have pointed out correctly - if they set Nazi World to year 2017, then hardly anyone would see the advantages of our system.

By then the Nazis would have conquered the entire world and started terraforming Mars, having built colonies on the Moon. And they would do it all by promoting families, women still not working en masse and most people being happy (unsure how they would depict the condition of the other races, because the Nazis had a very dark view on that front).

Most people happy, yes...unless they had Jewish, slavic, African, Indigenous American, roma/gypsy, or even Asian (beyond the Japanese, and even then...) origins.
Then their fate was more likely to be of the unhappy variety (enslavement, forced sterilization, strict discrimination in hiring/education/housing/everything else, or outright extermination).

Mostly happy excluding all of that, though.

Post: #116

(05-01-2017 01:21 AM)Excelsior Wrote:  

(04-30-2017 03:39 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  And as you have pointed out correctly - if they set Nazi World to year 2017, then hardly anyone would see the advantages of our system.

By then the Nazis would have conquered the entire world and started terraforming Mars, having built colonies on the Moon. And they would do it all by promoting families, women still not working en masse and most people being happy (unsure how they would depict the condition of the other races, because the Nazis had a very dark view on that front).

Most people happy, yes...unless they had Jewish, slavic, African, Indigenous American, roma/gypsy, or even Asian (beyond the Japanese, and even then...) origins.
Then their fate was more likely to be of the unhappy variety (enslavement, forced sterilization, strict discrimination in hiring/education/housing/everything else, or outright extermination).

Mostly happy excluding all of that, though.

Yeah - no argument about that. Slavs probably would have been integrated in the Reich as was done in the last years of the Hitler days - blonde, blue eyed etc.

But it would still be a moronic and oppressive system for anyone who is non-White or non-Japanese (and even then I doubt that the Nazis would give the Japanese a ruling status after having conquered them).

No one would want their genocidal racial crap. If they had allowed other tribes to remain intact, just ruled over them similar to what Alexander the Great had done with the Persians, then it would be a different story.

But in such a thought experiment the Nazis would have taken the nationalistic Jews within and integrated them in the Reich, also inviting other folk into it. That is pure mythological grappling of course.

Post: #117

(05-01-2017 04:50 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Yeah - no argument about that. Slavs probably would have been integrated in the Reich as was done in the last years of the Hitler days - blonde, blue eyed etc.

Slavs would have been enslaved or exterminated en masse with very few exceptions for those who could a) show some Germanic lineage, b) those who "looked" like "Aryans" (blonde, blue-eyed), and MAYBE c) those who were Croats or Bulgarians (close Nazi allies).
Anti-slavism is fundamental to Nazism and the Nazi position on Slavs was and is very, VERY clear. There is no happy ending for them in a Nazi/Imperial Japan dominated world. Let's not sell Nazis short here when it comes to the number of folks the were willing to destroy.

Quote:But it would still be a moronic and oppressive system for anyone who is non-White or non-Japanese (and even then I doubt that the Nazis would give the Japanese a ruling status after having conquered them).

Assuming the Japanese retained some authority/dominion/control over most of Asia (either as a rival power to the Nazis or their subordinate with designated autonomy), things would have been very bad for everyone in Asia as well. The Japanese were not kind to the Chinese, South Asians, or just about anyone else they came into contact with out there. We're talking about atrocities at or even beyond the Nazi level here (Unit 731 comes to mind).
Folks who look at this world and romanticize about its superiority seem totally unaware of all this.

Quote:No one would want their genocidal racial crap. If they had allowed other tribes to remain intact, just ruled over them similar to what Alexander the Great had done with the Persians, then it would be a different story.

...but then they wouldn't be Nazis. They did what they did because it was germane and fundamental to their ideology and world view - there was no other plausible outcome.
This is like saying "well, if the scorpion wasn't poisonous and didn't sting, I'd be pretty cool with him, he might not have been so bad"
Sure, you and the scorpion could be bros then, but said scorpion would no longer be a scorpion.

Quote:But in such a thought experiment the Nazis would have taken the nationalistic Jews within and integrated them in the Reich, also inviting other folk into it. That is pure mythological grappling of course.

There is no universe in which "nationalistic Jews" would be integrated into any Reich. That's not a thought experiment, it's just pure fantasy based on an overly romanticised view of Nazis and what they really represented (a view that I'm finding alarmingly common in the manosphere these days).
Nazi rule = dead or AT BEST enslaved/imprisoned Jews. There aren't any ifs, ands, or buts to be found here. The absolute best case scenario for Jews under Nazi dominion was the Madagascar Plan, and that certainly didn't allow much in the way of freedom or self-determination for Jews.

Post: #118

There are some oddities here with the whole series that confused me.

The first being bibles. Why were they banned? The Nazis never banned bibles or Christianity during the war.

The second being the forced euthanization of the physically and mentally ill. They did do this but during the war, but the public became more aware of the killings and levied protests against the reich. The whole program ended in July 1941 with Hitler moving resources to support the eastern front.

Not to mention, this practice being done in captured enemy territory would cause all sorts of miserable protests and fuel rebel activity. I doubt they would have continued this.

Overall a good series, just some oddities that didn't fit with what I remember from history class.

Post: #119

(05-01-2017 12:07 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  There are some oddities here with the whole series that confused me.

The first being bibles. Why were they banned? The Nazis never banned bibles or Christianity during the war.

The second being the forced euthanization of the physically and mentally ill. They did do this but during the war, but the public became more aware of the killings and levied protests against the reich. The whole program ended in July 1941 with Hitler moving resources to support the eastern front.

Not to mention, this practice being done in captured enemy territory would cause all sorts of miserable protests and fuel rebel activity. I doubt they would have continued this.

Overall a good series, just some oddities that didn't fit with what I remember from history class.

Some elements of the alternative history you just have to take as artistic license. It's at least plausible that the Nazis would have done these things in occupied America, because they did so in some form in the real world. And we simply don't know (yet) whether there were in fact protests or not - we may indeed see some sort of opposition to eugenics materialize in the next season, regarding Smith's son. It could very well be that there were protests, and unlike in Germany against German subjects, the protests in America were ruthlessly suppressed. There is some reason, so far not explained to my satisfaction, why the (non-rebel) Americans we see have so docilely accepted the occupation and learned to live with it - it could simply be that enough instances of "shock and awe" cowed them into dispirited pacification.

Banning the Bible (and Christianity with it) is fully plausible in principle, as the Nazis had some pretty weird occult and state-worship ideas that never got fully implemented, and (as has been touched on in the "Viking fetishism" thread) looked on Christianity as an alien and emasculating faith with roots in Judaism. "MITHC" doesn't delve into it, but "The Children's War" covers it with a bit more depth in a similar alternative history scenario. (The latter book gives an interesting glimpse into what a "Reich wins" alternative history would look like further into the future, being set in 2000. It ain't pretty.)

Post: #120

I have a few questions after having watched both series:

1. Why is Joe so angry about Smith (who is by far the best character) not telling him he's a Lebensborn? I get the feelings of anger about him supposedly being abandoned by his father, but what is it about being from the lebensborn program that is so worrying for him?

2. At the very end of Season 2 Episode 10, Smith is let in to a room with some tapes in it. Does anyone else think that either these will red-pill Smith on the alternate universe, or that they will give a cure for his son, but it's too late?

3. The whole alternate reality universe seems a bit strange. I assume this is where the Man in the High Castle gets his tapes from?

4. Is the man who distributes the tapes actually the man in the high castle? Hitler was living in a high castle before his death.

Post: #121

(09-22-2017 02:52 PM)britchard Wrote:  I have a few questions after having watched both series:

1. Why is Joe so angry about Smith (who is by far the best character) not telling him he's a Lebensborn? I get the feelings of anger about him supposedly being abandoned by his father, but what is it about being from the lebensborn program that is so worrying for him?

Probably daddy issues, plus jealous that Smith has the "perfect" nuclear family. Because he probably feels he doesn't have a real identity, that he's just a test tube baby basically.

2. At the very end of Season 2 Episode 10, Smith is let in to a room with some tapes in it. Does anyone else think that either these will red-pill Smith on the alternate universe, or that they will give a cure for his son, but it's too late?

It might, because it hits close to home, literally.

His son is more than likely dead, remember Smith is in Berlin, just stopped and attempted coup, and more than likely will be too late to save his son. His son remember, is now proud of his father, and turns himself in to be euthanized. Unless something crazy happens, he's good as dead.

3. The whole alternate reality universe seems a bit strange. I assume this is where the Man in the High Castle gets his tapes from?

I don't think the guy with all the films is the actual man in the high castle. Tagomi probably is at this point.

4. Is the man who distributes the tapes actually the man in the high castle? Hitler was living in a high castle before his death.

The distributor is a middle man for sure, and it definitely isn't Hitler. I have a feeling Tagomi is.

Post: #122

(09-22-2017 03:16 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(09-22-2017 02:52 PM)britchard Wrote:  ...

3. The whole alternate reality universe seems a bit strange. I assume this is where the Man in the High Castle gets his tapes from?

I don't think the guy with all the films is the actual man in the high castle. Tagomi probably is at this point.

4. Is the man who distributes the tapes actually the man in the high castle? Hitler was living in a high castle before his death.

The distributor is a middle man for sure, and it definitely isn't Hitler. I have a feeling Tagomi is.

In the book, the man with the films - Hawthorne Abendsen - is explicitly "The Man in the High Castle". The Wikipedia page for the show describes Abendsen as such in the synopsis for the episode where Julianna first meets him, and I recall the resistance members explicitly referring to him that way.

It's pretty plain that Abendsen is The Man in the High Castle.

Post: #123

Post: #124

Referenced by Smith: https://infogalactic.com/info/Fredric_Brown

Wrote the short story that the Star Trek episode "Arena" was based on.

Notable for his extremely short short stories.

PKD connection: "His 1945 short story "The Waveries"[1] was described by Philip K. Dick as 'what may be the most significant—startlingly so—story SF has yet produced.'"

Ayn Rand, Robert Heinlein, Mickey Spillane, Neil Gaiman, and Stephen King were all fans.

Never heard of him, but now I'll have to dig up some of his work. There will no doubt be some interesting connection.

Post: #125

Tons of movies based on PKD's stories, Total Recall, Minority Report, Screamers, Blade Runner, Adjustment Bureau, and more that I can't think of right now.
There's 5 collections of his short stories you can get, with most of the stories in them.
I haven't read Man in the high castle, or seen this series, but I have the book, just haven't cracked it yet.