Post: #26

Why do you care what some ditzy broad does?

Post: #27

(07-20-2016 04:05 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  Why do you care what some ditzy broad does?

Oh yeah... that's the solution, DG... don't give no fucks regarding the behaviors of chicks.

Of course guys are going to care if they invested some time into setting something up with a chick and she no call, no shows or engages in some other variation of flaking, and of course, guys should prepare for the possibility of chicks flaking; however, to give no fucks seems to be overly simplifying the issue, acting with short-sightedness and likely going to cause more issues to fail/refuse to adequately consider the matter.

Do you have any actual examples of chick flakes in your life, DonnyGately, or are you merely talking from a position of keyboard jockey theory? If you have any examples, describe the circumstances and how you dealt with those circumstances, and if you are taking the position that the give no fucks approach is superior, then explain a bit more why you believe such method is effective, if that's the position that you are taking?

Post: #28

@JayJuanGee.

What do you think of setting a date at one of your hunting grounds?

If I'm gonna get all looking nice and smelling good, I like to be in a place where I can instantly mack on some chicas if the date flakes.

Might be more of an intermediate mindset.

WIA

Post: #29

(07-20-2016 04:17 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Do you have any actual examples of chick flakes in your life, DonnyGately, or are you merely talking from a position of keyboard jockey theory? If you have any examples, describe the circumstances and how you dealt with those circumstances, and if you are taking the position that the give no fucks approach is superior, then explain a bit more why you believe such method is effective, if that's the position that you are taking?

Let's not start flaming the thread and name call.

Giving proper examples is great way of exposing holes in our game or what parts are solid.

I don't think it's about giving no fucks, I'm super alpha bruh, it's about shrugging your shoulder and hitting up the next girl in your phone.

I try and double book dates as much as I can.

My Thursday girl hamstered not seeing me, she's an 8 tatted latina, but has 2 kids. She said she's "interest in hanging with me, but not sure if she'd be a tease because she'd want to spend more time with me, but has to get ready to join the police academy". Sent her a simple text saying, handle your business and the doors always open.

I had a girl straight flake on me as I pull up to the venue, I still think to this day she worked with another girl I banged, she probably found at last minute. Yeah I was heated, but I made the best of it, I banged one of my plates that night.

If a girl hamsters and flakes, I laugh, keep it cool, tell them the door is open.

If a girl flakes BUT reschedules, I tell them we'll see and make plans in the next 2 days. I've actually gotten a few bangs by rescheduling.

If a girl goes ghost, I don't sweat it, because I'll have another date lined up.

It's been repeated on here before, abundance mentality is key.

HOWEVER, sometimes it can be you, the way you text, or present yourself.

I had one girl who hamstered not meeting me because of a middle finger photo, while hers was a peace photo.

I had another girl say we're into different things because she somehow creeped my Instagram.


Most of the time, women are....well women.

Post: #30

"Solution?" I didn't know I offered one.
Superior to what? Trying to 'shame' some girl you don't even know, jesus. I'm amazed your retort is 'keyboard jockey' when you disagree with someone. Do you live in your mom's basement? etc.

A while back, had 2 dates with hot blonde, let's say she's an 8 or so. Mixed white/latina, medium height, junior, high firm tits and that great latin ass, very fit. Date 1 great - she has a bit too much to drink and I drive her home, kiss goodnight.

Date 2 even better, we drink in the park and eat fruit, bring her back to my place, lots of physical stuff, no sex though. But she promises fantastic oral in the future.

Date 3 supposed to be 3 days later. She ghosts. We hadn't set a time or place so I figure she's busy. About a week later she gets in touch and we set a date for Friday night. On my way to the spot, she texts and says she can't make it. Of course I'm not happy about it so I meetup with other friends and reply to her, 'Okay, thanks.' I then forget about her, young girls are gonna flake. I don't waste any mental energy on Why, or What's she doing instead, or Who is she with.

Upshot is, later she calls and is apologetic for flaking, I accept her apology and bang her off and on for the next ~6 months. I don't make an ass of myself, nor beg, plead, whine, or yell/insult her.

Now I always get the confirm text in the late afternoon [2 at the earliest typically 330-4p] so if she is flaking I've already made other plans, and often have other plans for later in the evening anyway unless I think she's a slam-dunk.

I banged this very hot asian our first date, then she kept texting me to go out but then she flaked at the last minute.

Ghosting is a similar problem to flaking. Had a very good, not great, date 2 weeks ago with a supercute freshman girl I found online, got her out, a couple drinks and appetizers, great conversation, kino, kissing, she had to leave at 10 to get back to her 'rents. A few days later we text again, ask her to meet up, she says When, give her a time and....never heard from her since. No reply on kik. I would see her again but I Am not wasting time overthinking it and feeling down.

Inner game is the one thing that is in your total control, all of the time. Maybe because I'm much older than most here [like you I believe] it's easier for me. Maybe because since I took the redpill I've done well for myself. And why do you care what other people think...not just girls you don't even know!

I thought outcome independence was a very non-controversial topic here.

But: I always shame a girl when she flakes. ...I'll say something like a neg: "Oh cool you're playing the whole ghost thing? You're not (insert x) here." -- is terrible game and behavior.

Girls flake, charge it to the game. Always have a backup plan. If not go wherever you were going and game on. Make friends with the bartenders, bounces, waitress.

Post: #31

(07-20-2016 04:32 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  @JayJuanGee.

What do you think of setting a date at one of your hunting grounds?

If I'm gonna get all looking nice and smelling good, I like to be in a place where I can instantly mack on some chicas if the date flakes.

Might be more of an intermediate mindset.

WIA

Bingo, the two venues I take girls to, I used to warm up with random girls or people, shoot pool, and/or have a drink before the girl shows up.

Now I've had a handful of flakes last minute in the last few years, but WIA your mindset comes to mind - if she flakes - I'm still having fun.

Post: #32

(07-20-2016 04:40 PM)kaotic Wrote:  I don't think it's about giving no fucks, I'm super alpha bruh, it's about shrugging your shoulder and hitting up the next girl in your phone.

I try and double book dates as much as I can.

If a girl flakes BUT reschedules, I tell them we'll see and make plans in the next 2 days. I've actually gotten a few bangs by rescheduling.

If a girl goes ghost, I don't sweat it, because I'll have another date lined up.

It's been repeated on here before, abundance mentality is key.

Most of the time, women are....well women.

Kaotic nailed it. Maybe I'll send him pics of the girls I mentioned if he's interested.

Post: #33

(07-20-2016 04:43 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  Girls flake, charge it to the game. Always have a backup plan. If not go wherever you were going and game on. Make friends with the bartenders, bounces, waitress.

People always forget to have fun, regardless of a date or flake.

I ALWAYS shoot shit with the bartenders, one is a girl whose very flirty with me, but I can tell she sees me as a player.

I know 3 dude bartenders at this one bar on a first name basis, and they know my usual drink. I always tip them good, I get free drinks, or change to shoot pool or the juke box. Hell sometimes as they make drinks, they'll give my date a tasted.

I love both venues for the atmosphere, one more than the other because there's constantly girls there AND it's a bar a block away from college.

Post: #34

It's already been said, but I'll reiterate.

Chick flakes.

It's because she already decided you're not worth it. There's a million reasons why this could be and you'll never know exactly why. Thinking that:

-shaming her will have an impact on her behavior
-shaming her will give her pause and feel guilty
-she will then tell you a reason why she flaked thats not COMPLETE BULLSHIT

is both highly ignorant and doing nothing but telegraphing your beta butthurt directly to her. If you can't see why this is the case, you need to work on your game and social skills.

Fact of the matter is, you are holding zero cards.



This thought process is coming from the same mentality that guys who think everything is a shit test are coming from. Sometimes, a spade is just a spade. She's not flaking on you hoping you're gonna "put her in her place" and shame her into making the date with you when she's probably already out somewhere getting drilled by Chad. In summary:

Post: #35

@Kaotic

I love the game. I haven't yakked about it this much in a while. (Need to turn a lot of these into blog posts) I do sometimes get frustrated, but there is something very addictive about the whole endeavor.

Maybe it's the engineer still in me after all these years, but they're all problems to figure out. I love solving for (se)x .

Ever present in my mind is, "What is this girl really like?"

They're so scared to reveal themselves.

One of my favorite things is a chick who is wearing heels, but can't walk in them. There is something so patently ridiculous about it that it makes me giddy.

The whole thing is an act. It's one huge joke and we're all falling for it.

WIA

Post: #36

WIA same boat man, I love being able to figure out a girl, know her tells, and her ticks.

Girls always are on their best behavior when you first meet them, getting them out of the basic date routine and element reveals pretty quickly how they are.

The chase, the hunt, closing, it's an addiction.

I've had 2 dates so far this week, another date tonight, and 2 possible ones tommorow.

The first one was a dud, last night was fun but mediocre, tonights girl seems cool, tommorow will the cutest of the bunch.

Post: #37

If the girl flakes the number probably wasn't that solid.

By solid number, I mean a woman whom I had a great initial interaction with, got her number and she replies fairly quickly and readily agreed to a date when I ask. Sure something legit may come up where she has to reschedule for the first date, but she'll show up for the second scheduled date.

The signs of flaking tend to be present before the flaking ever happens in my experience, eg, the initial interaction wasn't that great, she has a boyfriend, she doesn't respond to my first text message, it consistently takes her long time to respond to text messages, etc. I typically weed those women out before even asking for a date. Their level of interest is too low.

The better the initial interactions you have and the better you weed out women who aren't that interested, the less last minute cancellations you'll have. I also have something else planned in case she cancels so it's not a big deal if she does.

Getting mad at flaking makes as much sense as getting mad at gravity or getting mad about dying. It's inevitable so what's the point?

Post: #38

These are mostly the responses I expected.

I have to respectfully disagree with the notion that "it won't make a difference." They don't think like us. They are emotional and easily provoked. Too many people have fallen victim to this "text and ignore" culture and have simply shrugged their shoulders with it instead of trying to rectify it.

If I sling an insult at any one on this forum, I know that a negative repercussion will be hearing a return-fire insult. To think that every word bounces off these women is incorrect.

It's also interesting to see the difference between the attitudes here and on ROK (where I spend most of my time). Here is much more nihilistic about societal chance while ROK seems to be collectively advocating for change.

Does it benefit me? Absolutely. I sleep with a better conscience knowing that I returned fire to someone who disrespected me.

Post: #39

If your goal is to shame chicks, have you A/B tested your message?

What I mean is, do you always come back with salt?

Or do you ever come back with a weird script flip, like “good timing — I had a schedule conflict too, and felt rude about changing it"?

Like you are relieved they flaked. But not in a way that means you were nervous to meet her.

Post: #40

You're just not seeing the big picture. Rectify the culture of flaking? Come on dude.

If some fatty came onto you, and you ignored her, or rebuffed her advances, would you give it a second thought? Would you give a fuck if she wrote you a salty text message?

Didn't think so...

You're kidding yourself if you think you're "getting even" for being "disrespected". The only one who gives a fuck in that scenario is you.

Post: #41

(07-20-2016 04:32 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  @JayJuanGee.

What do you think of setting a date at one of your hunting grounds?

If I'm gonna get all looking nice and smelling good, I like to be in a place where I can instantly mack on some chicas if the date flakes.

Might be more of an intermediate mindset.

WIA

Yes! This is my ideal when trying to schedule online girls.

There's some debate on whether it's best to schedule on weekends or weekday nights. I tried doing weekday nights for a while and it just didn't seem to be working. The girls aren't in a "it's time to have fun" mood, and the "well, I gotta get up in the morning" bailout excuse is way too easy.

I don't keep detailed stats or anything, but I'm confident dates on a Friday or Saturday have historically gone better. My last lay from online was over the 4th weekend.

But I'm not giving up my whole evening for a girl who may not pan out. So if I'm going into the city to meet one of these girls, I'm going to want two things:

a) The venue to be within 10 minutes of her place if it goes good
b) The venue to be within 10 minutes of somewhere I want to be that night (I don't take online girls on first dates to places where I'm regular) if it goes south

Boston and Providence are fairly compact cities, so it's usually no trouble at all to get these requirements locked down. 8-9 is my idea time to set a weekend date. It's late enough that she may have difficulty squeezing someone in after you (if she's a serial dater) without them realizing that they're the "B" option, but early enough so that things don't pan out I can be off to somewhere else within the hour, and still have plenty of evening left.

Post: #42

(07-20-2016 04:32 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  @JayJuanGee.

What do you think of setting a date at one of your hunting grounds?

If I'm gonna get all looking nice and smelling good, I like to be in a place where I can instantly mack on some chicas if the date flakes.

Might be more of an intermediate mindset.

WIA

Sure, that could be a way to have a sort of back-up plan, yet I tend to be a bit uncomfortable if the date actually shows up and expects a kind of traditional date situation in which I am largely paying attention to her, and there is some kinds of competition amongst other girls, and traditionally those situations do not tend to work out very well for me.

That's just my experience, but I am not opposed to the idea or the possibility that other guys can really make something like that work whether the girl shows up or not.

I have actually done some variation of having girls meet me at the place I am already planning to go to in the salsa dancing scene, especially when I have really low expectations of the girl actually showing up and being DTF, but in the salsa dancing scene, there can be some looser kinds of expectations in terms of necessarily getting tied down with one chick for the night.... or flexibility in terms of whether you will be going home with any chick.

Post: #43

(07-20-2016 04:40 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(07-20-2016 04:17 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Do you have any actual examples of chick flakes in your life, DonnyGately, or are you merely talking from a position of keyboard jockey theory? If you have any examples, describe the circumstances and how you dealt with those circumstances, and if you are taking the position that the give no fucks approach is superior, then explain a bit more why you believe such method is effective, if that's the position that you are taking?

Let's not start flaming the thread and name call.

Giving proper examples is great way of exposing holes in our game or what parts are solid.

My earlier comments were not directed towards you, and I already long noticed that you tend to flesh out your experiences anyhow, just like you did in this referred to post....

Maybe my post can be read as a bit of an attack at DonnyGately, but it was not meant to be personal and was mostly aimed at the superficiality of DGately's statement that is really filled with flaws, and anyhow, I think my earlier post sufficiently suggested my concerns about DGately's post without any intention to flame him personally, and surely he can respond to give some specifics, too.

(07-20-2016 04:40 PM)kaotic Wrote:  I don't think it's about giving no fucks, I'm super alpha bruh, it's about shrugging your shoulder and hitting up the next girl in your phone.

Yes, sure, your specifics are helpful in this regard to explain whatever is the situation and approach that you employ. Even if RVF guys may not agree or employ the same strategies as other guys, at least they can get a sense regarding what is meant when there include some specifics and then maybe guys (including myself) can attempt to apply the practice(s) in circumstances that could work for them.

Post: #44

(07-20-2016 04:43 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  "Solution?" I didn't know I offered one.
Superior to what? Trying to 'shame' some girl you don't even know, jesus. I'm amazed your retort is 'keyboard jockey' when you disagree with someone. Do you live in your mom's basement? etc....

[for sake of brevity edited out the remainder]

I don't think that my earlier post was overly provocative, and I have no disagreement with your overall approach, but I did have concerns with your earlier brief post. I think I already sufficiently explained what I meant in that post.

Post: #45

OP: you clearly need to experience a women flaking on you... and then make her flake about flaking on you aka getting her out on a date after adjusting your

Game and correcting the possible mistake that made her flake in the 1st place. You clearly see Game as strictly a win or lose process at the moment, when

Game is mostly optimal when you have a small I don't give a Damn about them all, cause I'll get laid eventually by 1 of them. Women are fickle! And don't forget that women could get Dick every day of the week.

Sometimes even an alpha Dick takes a Backseat to her girls night out, or her Binge television watching with a 1L of Ice cream. Women will flake Period. Try to regame her unless you went Dumpster Diving to Bust a quick nut but lost.

Post: #46

(07-20-2016 10:42 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(07-20-2016 09:33 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  A better strategy is to not modify her behavior, but modify your own.

WIA

That, or screen for girls whose behaviors already please you.

I think OP started off the wrong foot, the wrong mindset. You seek to change the behavior of a girl who think so low of you as to flake on you?

The best way to avoid flake is to make yourself immune to it: bring a book, set up dates when you are going out anyway, set up date where you can easily bounce to another venue. If she doesn't show go do what you were about to do anyway.

Giovonny said it best: a girl flaking on you is doing you a favor. You wont waste any more time on an uninterested girl. And it tells you that your game needs more work. As WIA said it, she wont flake on Brad Pitt, or a guy spitting good game.

Never stop improving your game, or other areas of your life that you have control over. But I take issue with this notion that a flake is a reflection of YOU, or something you did (weak game, lack of Brad Pitt looks, etc).

Flaky cunts are gonna be flaky cunts.

By perceiving her flaky behavior as a fault of your own, due to some weakness on your part, completely takes the blame off of her and her shitty behavior. If she's flaked on you, she's flaked on dozens of guys before you, and she'll continue flaking on guys after you've long deleted her number. Then she'll whine on social media about "where are all the good men at?"

These twats aren't worth a second of agonizing over. Certainly don't let it make you feel like it's somehow your fault. This only leads to self doubt and lowered confidence, the exact opposite of where your mindset needs to be.

She's either into you, or she's not. When a girl is into you, she'll jump through any number of hoops to see you. If she's not, that's just the way it goes.. it doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. She could just have shitty taste in men.

How do you know she didn't flake on you so she could bone her weed dealer, an ex boyfriend who's perpetually unemployed, or some hipster beta she met at a Bernie Sanders rally? And if this is the type of guy she doesn't flake on, do you want to lower yourself to that level in a desperate attempt to win her over?

The point is, a lot of flakes aren't due to a "better" option than you.

Post: #47

Sending them a bitchy text won't serve as punishment.
Your text will be read, screenshotted, and shown to her friends for their amusement while they further ridicule you.
I can hardly see the man ever coming out as a winner in this scenario.

Also, yes a broken clock can be right twice a day. Meaning sure, sometimes flakey girls ends up pulling through at another time (when they have less options immediately available and they are bored so they say "eh, fuck it") but do you really want to be hanging out with the girl in this scenario? If you don't have much experience banging women and you still live in the scarcity mindset then sure, it will be worth the bullshit.

I've sent rude angry texts, polite well written texts expressing my anger at the disrespectful behaviour, called the girl out, placed 10 calls of which none were answered, sent massive paragraphs, etc, etc. All that's doing is banging your head against the wall.

"ok, no worries. take care"
That's the best response to a flake that saves you piece of mind, as well as leaving somewhat of an option available for her to hit you up again if you feel like seeing her when she does. But thats only because a broken clock is right twice a day like I said. 90% chance this flakey girl will stay flakey because your value will have dropped so much by her flaking on you that you almost automatically become unattractive and get lumped in the same basked as all the other "unworthy" guys that are hitting her up. Remember man, there is almost certainly an alpha guy that this girl is fawning over that is flaking on HER.

Post: #48

I never shame (i.e. blow myself out) for girls flaking. I will, however, tease them and give them shit and keep the door open depending on the situation. I have gotten a few bangs by being forgiving about flaking and re-opening a girl later. The game is never over.

Post: #49

(07-21-2016 12:39 PM)The_e_man Wrote:  I've sent rude angry texts, polite well written texts expressing my anger at the disrespectful behaviour, called the girl out, placed 10 calls of which none were answered, sent massive paragraphs, etc, etc. All that's doing is banging your head against the wall.

I think that the longer we are alive, the more likely we have experimented with at least all of the above reactions and probably more, and even if someone tells us to do x or y or z, we almost have to go through the various reactions ourselves (at least some of them) in order to get a pretty decent understanding how to tailor approaches to our own tolerance.

I remember one chick that I had begun seeing, and I kind of felt that I had her in the bag, yet with her, ended up texting too much, and her flaking got worse and worse. I could kind of recognize the problem of my interaction with her while I was doing it (and that was that I was the one who was mostly initiating the communications and she was falling more and more in control of when, how and whether we would meet), yet I was having difficulties modifying my behavior with her, because I had already kind of gotten into that bad habit with her.

I think that I kind of learned from that situation after some later reflection rather than really being able to tackle the problem while I was in the midst of it.

Post: #50

+1 for leaving the door open, but chasing other options.

There is no gain (for you) in burning the bridge.