Post: #26

(05-25-2016 11:46 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  I'm not saying that I feel "superior" to others, because I really don't. I feel that people in general are pretty smart and are capable of all sorts of things when given the proper tools and motivation. But they often just seem to lack the motivation.

I would say that part of the motivation is driven by higher intelligence in and of itself. When you have a mind that operates on a higher gear than others there ends up being a greater hunger to consume more information.

Post: #27

I think this is largely social, not biological. There are lots of high IQ guys who look masculine.

I will say, though, that I was in gifted programs in two different school districts and very few of the guys in my classes were anything other than awkward, wiry nerds. But I suspect that some of the more normal high IQ guys were never considered for the gifted program because they were more focused on growing socially to the detriment of schoolwork in their early childhoods.

There was also that article floating around on Facebook about how high IQ people are just less social in general-- they often prefer to be by themselves. If you think about the standard of conversation at the bar, or with pretty much any woman, this makes a lot of sense-- beyond my own anxiety issues, one reason I don't want to go out is because I just have no interest talking about the BS that anyone else wants to discuss (namely, her own incredibly boring, facile, and thoughtless existence).

Let's be honest, the reason most guys get into lifting is girls. It may become something else, but that's the initial trigger. I'm not sure high IQ guys are as interested in girls (flame away), and I do think the fact that they aren't initialized into the pre-teen semipro sports circuit keeps them out of the gym as they are perpetually behind their peers.

I also am conflating things like working out with angular facial features and such. But I really doubt that IQ would be related to facial features and genetic phenotype.

Post: #28

"Do high IQ men look less masculine/alpha?" - That's the wrong question ... the right question is "All other things being equal, do women find high IQ attractive?"

The answer is a resounding "NO, a higher IQ by itself will not make you more attractive to women".

Voxday had a link to a study about this but I can't find it via google. Basically, it said if you are a guy, the higher your IQ, the higher average age at which you'll lose your virginity.

Post: #29

IMO, it's the same reason why hot girls should be looking pretty and making babies instead of chasing a career (Specialization)

A fat girl has no options but to develop her personality.

A tall, athletic man is better off playing sports and banging girls since it's his advantage.

Weaker males are better off utilizing what they can (their brain).

Different stages of life, each type has it's advantages. Long term the nerd wins.

I think less masculine men have no choice but to develop their intellect more. Genetically, this gets passed down.

Post: #30

This thread is evidence that men also have rationalization hamsters. It is what it is, move on and forget about it instead of trying to reconcile that science contradicts what you thought. How high your IQ is is irrelevant.

Post: #31

(05-29-2016 12:39 PM)ovloV Wrote:  This thread is evidence that men also have rationalization hamsters. It is what it is, move on and forget about it instead of trying to reconcile that science contradicts what you thought. How high your IQ is is irrelevant.

Hmm? I don't consider myself to have high IQ (even though I always did well at school) so I wasn't even thinking about me when I made this thread. I am also a straight up G so being beta doesn't apply to me. Next.

Post: #32

(05-28-2016 11:52 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  "Do high IQ men look less masculine/alpha?" - That's the wrong question ... the right question is "All other things being equal, do women find high IQ attractive?"

The answer is a resounding "NO, a higher IQ by itself will not make you more attractive to women".

Voxday had a link to a study about this but I can't find it via google. Basically, it said if you are a guy, the higher your IQ, the higher average age at which you'll lose your virginity.

This is not necessarily because they aren't attractive, it could be related to social skills which, yes, are related to attractiveness, but also because these guys do not to realize that others are attracted to them or are too scared to approach.

I didn't lose my virginity until 22 and I can relate about twenty scenarios where girls were into me and I was completely oblivious, in addition to the times where I was too scared to approach.

I will also say that while I agree in general that high IQ is generally not attractive, there is a subset of girls that does not just include super nerdy girls who melt for smart guys. Eventually, they start talking about having to google the words you use and such and they leave you, but these girls are out there.

Post: #33

When I was younger, I was put in a position where I could observe a population for which I could assess what the OP is asking.

No, you can't tell IQ via the classic qualities of alpha. There are higher IQ alphas and lower IQ betas.

Though if you were to observe a lower socioeconomic status population you might be able to tell based on the proposed criteria. Why? Because what it means to be alpha often changes a little bit. The willingess to threaten and apply violence (physical or verbal) becomes a bigger deal. High IQ men aren't as predisposed to that type of impulse, though they might have alpha qualities to meet the standard of a higher class environment. If a high IQ alpha from a high SES group were to be placed in a low SES group, he might get bullied. Bullying lowers testosterone in the victim, I believe. Thus you might eventually have someone who could have been alpha in a higher SES environment be beta in a poorer environment. It's just a theory from having observed both groups

Post: #34

Alpha looks are related to testosterone levels, especially those during formative years.

Test is at best weakly correlated with IQ.

Honestly IQ is not a good unit of measure because although "smart" people have high IQs there are a great many people who have high IQs but are not "smart". Here I am using the term smart as something akin to "most likely to create something brilliant".

So, ultimately, I would say no, IQ and alpha are unrelated, but that a conclusive debunking of this statement has not - to the best of my knowledge - been attempted.

Post: #35

I think if they're inversely related in any way, it's probably because overthinking small problems leads to anxiety and indecision, which are symptoms of "beta" behavior. Also anxiety produces cortisol which negatively impacts testosterone.

Post: #36

I could never call a man truly intelligent if he doesn't understand the simply sexual reality and physical benefits of hard physical exercise which produces a masculine appearance. There is no reason for those with High IQ's to not apply their intelligence to their physicality and sociosexual navigation other than simple arrogance and disdain for the strong.

(05-24-2016 09:21 AM)scrambled Wrote:  Good for them, but I seemingly can't do this; I get spotted instantly by smarter girls, even if I use simplified language and try to run 'joe six pack' game. I do badly with lower-class, hooters, hot-but-not-beautiful tatooed types. Intelligence is simply in the face, and eyes, and announces itself to the world.

My theory is that no matter the moral shaming, people expect others to fit easy stereotypes, so they won't look deeply enough to see the intelligence if you don't ping their suspicions.

That being said, I don't recommend trying 'Joe Sixpack' unless you are highly-intelligent and struggling with women. Gaming the vastly-less intelligent requires the ability to juggle at least two mental abstracts at the same time. When I say, 'less intelligent', I don't see this as a negative value judgement, more just that our minds have different capabilities that can make smooth communication otherwise impossible.

Why are you failing? Questions you could ask yourself:

Are you really that invested in dumb sluts? I don't have a choice, Australian Women from White English backgrounds are, largely, morons. We really got the dregs of England in the gene pool due to the Convict Stock. Travelling in Europe was exciting for me because I could pitch my intelligence much higher than usual and be understood.

Are you physically-intimidating enough to look like you could fuck someone up? This is Dumb Girl Crack, and also makes everyone underestimate your intelligence if you don't have any 'cultured' tells that could be misread as 'gay'.

How are you presenting yourself? Is your presentation too upmarket? Dress down.

Do you look too 'put together' in a way a working-class guy wouldn't? Look like you tried to clean yourself up but don't give a shit about looking too precious. If I wear a tie, I drop the knot, so it looks like I'm not used to wearing one and don't really know how to tie it (even more of a necessity now with the big neck). Maybe I'll wear black work boots instead of dress shoes because "They're close enough." Get the idea?

Do you speak too quickly? Slow down.

Do you say too much? Ask her leading questions so she does most of the talking.

Are your ideas too complex? Simplify.

Does your spoken pitch remain fairly even, or is the variance great? Is it rising and falling - known as complex tones - within a word? Listen to Quintus Curtius' podcast sometime: note even though he's obviously deeply-intelligent, how steady and masculine his tone is, whereas many young millennial guys have picked up female speech traits, particularly uptalk, and rising pitch when excited. These are tells of education and the privilege of having little experience with violence. QC's steady tone is telling of familiarity with conflict.

Practice these four expressions with your eyes in the mirror.

- The Proud King surveying his throne room
- Steady, slightly-aggressive gaze like you're sizing up a meal
- The complete absence of complex thought = Unreadable emotions = girl crack
- Cheeky grin with the mouth / 'I'll fuck your shit up' eyes

It's not enough to 'act' these, you have to be feeling the emotions as you do it. Pull them out as needed.

Linguistically, you're on your own. You have to know your market. It's basically learning to speak the language of class reality.

What you see here in my writing - the complex, run on sentences; the deep thought; the fussy, verbose Victorianism; the clarifying adjectives; the ornate vocabulary - is evident in my day to day speech. What you're seeing here is my uncontrolled, real self.

Day to day though, to survive, being +3 SD above average intelligence?

- Middle syllables are swallowed: Camera = Camra, Beautiful = Bewdful, Different = Diffrent.

- 'I' is sounded as an 'oi' sound within words in certain instances: Time becomes 'toime', Pizza is 'poizza'.

- 'Er' sounds become 'ah' in certain instances: Poofter = Pooftah; Subwoofer = Subwoofah; Runner = Runnah.

It's all performance that I can turn on and off as needed, depending on the audience.

If I was being fussy with the Wine and Cheese set - note I didn't say Woine - I might say 'How are you doing today?' or 'What are your plans for the weekend.'

In Bogan (think Redneck) Speak, this becomes

"'ow ya garn, mate? What ya up ta Sat'dee?"

If an educated friend had just been visibly-knocked back by a girl, what might be "She left quickly. What on earth did you say that offended her?" becomes this, in Bogan Speak:

"Fark, whatdya say ya mad cunt? That mole was off like a Dapto dog."

Something like:

"I'd love a beer, please. I'm very thirsty"

becomes

"Giz a fucken tinnie mate, I'm as dry as a nun's cunt."

As such, If I spun a yarn with youse cunts the way I do down the pub, you probably wouldn't make a lot of sense out of it:

Quote:"So I'm down me local late last Fri'dee. Been tryen to pull this bird for coupla hours. Thinken I'm in there and she's ready ta back up on it but when I put the hard word on her she arcs right up n gets shirty with me then pisses right off.

So I'm toey and busten for a slash, so head off to the dunny but I end up standin there for fucken yonks with an angry pissfat, ya know how it goes.

So im standen there tryen to get the bugger to go down n the fucken door BANGS open. Woulda heard it down Sydnee way mate, I tell ya. Scares the fuck outta me so I turn 'round and its this old mole of a cleanah, and she cops an eyeful of me mungrel.

Doesn't. fucken. bat. an. eyelid. Just goes 'Ah, sorry darl. Thought it were empty this toime a noight.'

I go 'nah no worries luv. Only be a tick.'

The mole gives me this dirty grin and goes... she just goes... 'Well let me know if ya need me ta help ya knock the top off of it,' and shuts the door.

I tell ya, I just about pissed meself laughen cause oim thinken if Old Mate were here, he'd be given me the elbow and sayen 'garn Bosch. Nevah let a chance go boi ol' son. So wot if shes fucken rotten enuff that she makes ya spew when ya on the job, ay? She got a fucken mop, don't she?'"

Sometimes my persona will slip in polite company, and I'll fire off a 'cunt' where it's obviously not required, or it will slip into my writing by accident. Doesn't seem to happen the other way around. (Note how I swallowed the 'it' there? That a common tell of me being caught in-between worlds).

I know what you're thinking: sounds like a fuckload of work (slipping again). This is the reality of being such a highly-intelligent man in a country where intelligence is despised and wanting a healthy sex and social life, because otherwise I'd read as somewhere between 'weird to insane' to roughly 83% of the population. Even as a kid, the other children would say "You talk funny" whenever I opened my mouth, which meant social exclusion. In my neighbourhood, you needed the protection of the group to survive, because a child alone was a target. I simply adapted.

To be honest, I see high intelligence as being largely-useless in Australia, and a huge social handicap. The snobs may sneer at the working classes, but underneath their violent and feral tendencies, they're good people, whose dysfunction is far more understandable and healthier than anyone I've interacted with from the upper classes.

Post: #37

Off Topic: Bosch, I'm more intrigued by your writing. I thought you were a Ruskie..are you a guy originating from Australia?

Post: #38

^ Nah, I'm an Aussie, just been travelling overseas. I was in my third country post-Romania, and now am back in Oz again, due to unforseen circumstances. I'd better update the flag when I get a moment, but I don't think I'll be on much for the next couple of months anyway.

Post: #39

(05-30-2016 07:31 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  ^ Nah, I'm an Aussie, just been travelling overseas. I was in my third country post-Romania, and now am back in Oz again, due to unforseen circumstances. I'd better update the flag when I get a moment, but I don't think I'll be on much for the next couple of months anyway.

I do like the Aussie contribution to this board. One of my favourites was Hooligan Harry, who kept it real all the way. I feel that he will be who he was on the forum in person. I will peruse your posts more deeply. I like your stuff on the psychological effects of bodybuilding.

Post: #40

(05-30-2016 06:11 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  Linguistically, you're on your own. You have to know your market. It's basically learning to speak the language of class reality.

What you see here in my writing - the complex, run on sentences; the deep thought; the fussy, verbose Victorianism; the clarifying adjectives; the ornate vocabulary - is evident in my day to day speech. What you're seeing here is my uncontrolled, real self.

Day to day though, to survive, being +3 SD above average intelligence?

- Middle syllables are swallowed: Camera = Camra, Beautiful = Bewdful, Different = Diffrent.

This is exactly what I had to learn for cold calls and sales.

Talking so slow (to me) that it felt like I was joking around. Learning to insert "um" and "ah" into sentences around important words so that people would be cued to listed to them. Asking people how they are, or about the weather, or sports results. Adopting slang and vulgarity, and having go-to phrases to throw out endlessly (listening to me on a sales phone call, 80% of what you hear would be "cool", "no sweat", and "awesome"... over and over).

Which is funny, because later on, when training normal people, I have to give the opposite advice. "Learn some terminology", "if you don't know what to say, use silence, don't say 'um' so much", "formulate your thoughts before the pitch and have the information ready".

Post: #41

I think there are plenty of exceptions, guys like AB or Dolph Lundgren, but by and large the answer is yes.

Higher IQ guys might have a tendency towards overly identifying with their mind and dis-identifying from their body, and therefore don't develop much athleticism or get into weight training.

As a society that thrives on specialization, perhaps we've gotten away from promoting the idea of mens sana in corpore sano.

Post: #42

Both the Klitschko brothers in addition to ruling the world heavyweight championships for a decade, earned Doctorates, are fluent in multiple languages, and are worth many millions of dollars each with international standing in business and politics-most likely outliers.
caveat: Wladimir has been doggedly followed by rumours of hitting for the other team for quite a while now.

Post: #43

Several of the studies/articles published aren't discriminating between high IQ men and the really high IQ guys.

The top 20% of men (IQ-wise) is very broad. I'd say that this group is probably the most likely to be well groomed and fit, as they can see the benefits to this- the evidence for this is this forum itself.

However I'd be inclined to agree that the very top men are less masculine. I don't want to brag, but I have a 140 IQ (certified test) and lift and play sports and I'm pretty socially able despite being a mild introvert. However of the men I know, only about 2% (and I don't associate with scumbags) have a similar level of mental and physical fitness and ability. I'm sure on this forum the figure would be much higher.

The 4 or 5 guys I know that are your typical 140+ IQ 'geniuses' are nice guys and I could talk to them for years about deep topics, but they're a bit weird and eccentric (hence the crazy professor stereotype)

Post: #44

(05-30-2016 02:07 PM)britchard Wrote:  The top 20% of men (IQ-wise) is very broad. I'd say that this group is probably the most likely to be well groomed and fit, as they can see the benefits to this- the evidence for this is this forum itself.

The reason is genetic -- intelligent people are more likely to be well groomed and fit. That is, better brain = better body, the genes are related.

Top 20% is also not quite a precise number, as intelligence is distributed on a bell curve; so perhaps you meant the 14% of people who are two standard deviations above the median; ("honors students" in the street phrase)



But the 2% who are three standard deviations over, ("gifted students"), are these badly groomed and physically unfit? Could you tell the difference between the two student groups? I doubt it; I'd bet the gifted students are just brighter.

Quote: However I'd be inclined to agree that the very top men are less masculine. I don't want to brag, but I have a 140 IQ (certified test) and lift and play sports and I'm pretty socially able despite being a mild introvert.

Being an introvert doesn't make one socially unable; it's being dumb that does.

"Certified test", when was this taken and which test was it? Very few adults know their current IQ, as IQ changes and a real test is rather lengthy and expensive to take.

Quote:The 4 or 5 guys I know that are your typical 140+ IQ 'geniuses' are nice guys and I could talk to them for years about deep topics, but they're a bit weird and eccentric (hence the crazy professor stereotype)

Better to say 145+, or three standard deviations above, 'highly gifted', yet there are so few of these it would be shocking if you know as many as five; it would be the equivalent of personally knowing 4-5 guys who are over 6'6" tall.

Weird and eccentric are two different views on the same thing, one is pejorative and the other less so; which is it? And what does being 'eccentric' have to do with not being masculine? Also, professors aren't crazy, even by stereotype; the stereotype is that they are old and absent minded. Nor do professors have that high of an IQ, because the bell curve is like a supermassive statistical black hole that drags all, no matter what their social reputation otherwise may be, toward mediocrity; there are around 1.54 million post-secondary instructors in the United States alone, which would far exceed even the total theoretical number of highly-gifted people.

The highest IQ profession is physician, but the IQ median there is still only a sub-gifted 126, the equivalent of an 'A' honors student who would be sweating bullets in a gifted classroom, trying to keep their grades up by receiving private tutoring on the side.