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~~jj90~~ · 11-28-2015 08:40 PM

@Atom89: I'm going to give you a different perspective. Degrees and open source projects may not open any doors for you, but they certainly won't shut them on you. If you can show a complex project to the right person, that will carry much more weight then anything else.

Atom89 · 11-29-2015 06:16 AM

Thank you @frenchcorporation and jj90.

Right now I'm going to develop a complex project in C#, Java and Python, I have plenty of time on my hands so 20 hours a week in 3 months is viable completion time, Monday-Friday this is going to be a full time job develop this complex project. I'm also learning C++ at the side.

I'll keep all of you updated and good luck to everyone.

Neo · 11-29-2015 08:57 AM

What type of independent projects have you guys created once getting your skills up to par?

Atom89 · 12-21-2015 03:27 AM

Video game and financial/statistical stuff seems cool!

I'm also thinking of developing a video game, credit card fraud detection and biometric finger print system/inventory management. Been brainstorming a few idea's in the last couple of weeks. These topics are an interest of mine and I feel from what I've heard, project along with enthusiasm will carry a lot of weight.

Good luck with your projects.

LouEvilSlugger · 01-04-2016 08:10 PM

(09-07-2015 06:59 PM)frenchcorporation Wrote: The investment in learning frontend stuff almost isnt worth it. every weeks there's some new fly-by-night frontend framework that won't be maintained for long.

And even worse than that, my direct boss thinks its a good idea to use frontend frameworks neither of us have used before.
Personally I think paid projects aren't the time to experiment, but its not my call.

I've been doing general algorithims in python and scala , in preparation for going into quant/algorithim work, and I'm now going to start learning financial modelling. I studied engineering at uni so the maths shouldn't be too daunting

I'll do what I normally do: read, learn , then put a personal project together, and keep improving it as I keep learning.
With this skill I should be taken a lot more seriously for these kind of roles. The bank whose coding tets I did well on ,apparently aren't looking at any more applications, so I need an edge from here on in

If anyone has done quant type stuff and doesn't mind posting links to resources/any other useful info it would be appreciated

Same boat as you although my backgroung is in computer science. This should help you.

https://www.quantopian.com/home

alecks · 01-25-2016 09:07 PM

just to give people a heads up, there are tons of developer jobs in Ireland, especially Dublin. In recent years the tech industry has really took off. Some very tasty salaries in there too if you know your shit. 40-75k euro.

http://ie.indeed.com/jobs?q=front+end+we...nty+Dublin

java developer (although you need a shit load of experience for this job) going at 12,000 euro a month for a 6 month contract.

http://www.bestjobs.ie/jobs/job-of-java-...C5DFEDD657

Heart Break Kid · 01-27-2016 12:23 AM

Hey guys, what languages do you think are worth learning and which ones are on the way out?

I'd like to pick up a language, I have no experience in programming. Not sure how relevant this is for a beginner language, but I've only taken college algebra.

alecks · 01-27-2016 01:42 AM

frenchcorporation any updates for us?

weambulance · 01-27-2016 03:08 AM

(01-27-2016 12:23 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote: Hey guys, what languages do you think are worth learning and which ones are on the way out?

I'd like to pick up a language, I have no experience in programming. Not sure how relevant this is for a beginner language, but I've only taken college algebra.

What languages are "worth learning" depend on what you're doing.

Don't learn a language just because, learn it because you have a specific need. For example, I have some web apps I wrote in Python on the Django framework. To bring them over to Android, I'll use Java because that's what Android apps are written in. I have barely used Java, but I have no doubt I can make it work.

Programmers need to understand logic more than they need to understand math. Plenty of people who are good at solving integrals suck at logic. In the same vein, there are loads of programmers who can follow someone else's plan to solve a problem in code, but plenty of programmers suck at problem solving themselves.

I recommend heading over to teamtreehouse.com, picking a learning track that looks interesting, and going through the whole thing. Take notes, lots of notes. Start thinking of projects of your own to work on on the side and build them. In a month you'll have a much better handle on whether you actually want to be a programmer, and if you have the aptitude for it.

frenchcorporation · 01-27-2016 06:18 AM

(01-27-2016 12:23 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote: Hey guys, what languages do you think are worth learning and which ones are on the way out?

I'd like to pick up a language, I have no experience in programming. Not sure how relevant this is for a beginner language, but I've only taken college algebra.

pick one and stick with it

if youre worried about the programming language you learn becoming obsolete, learn java, C or c++ you will never be out of work as they are everywhere

(01-27-2016 01:42 AM)alecks Wrote: frenchcorporation any updates for us?

The job is going well, my contract was extended so I'll be here for at least six months in total. I've had offers for other jobs, ranging from £350 -£500 a day, in python and scala, but I want to honour my contract and see it out.

I'm still working on my trading software, but i was only doing an hour a day or so. I met a relatively successful guy who runs a hedge fund, and he offered a relatively high paying (figures mentioned were £80k -£90k base pay) job , if I could show that my trading software could make a sustained profit of over 3-6 months.

So I've stepped up the rate of progress

He said how much it made wasnt the really important thing, the important thing was that I could show I understand financial concepts, make the software from scratch, and make a profit all by myself, as these combination of skills is in high demand.

So ive been working on the software a lot more. Even if this guy doesnt offer me a job I'll still be able to get another job, which is the whole reason I started doing it in the first place.

I.T Contractors doing this kind of stuff can make £500 - £700 a day, I may need to go into a permanent job beforehand to get enough experience to do contracting in finance, but that's not an issue, the pay as a permanent employee would be decent enough anyway.

Heart Break Kid · 01-27-2016 12:55 PM

(01-27-2016 03:08 AM)weambulance Wrote: Don't learn a language just because, learn it because you have a specific need. For example, I have some web apps I wrote in Python on the Django framework. To bring them over to Android, I'll use Java because that's what Android apps are written in. I have barely used Java, but I have no doubt I can make it work.

Do you have a readers digest for what languages are most useful for solving specific tasks?

Tigre · 01-27-2016 01:14 PM

(01-27-2016 12:23 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote: Hey guys, what languages do you think are worth learning and which ones are on the way out?

I'd like to pick up a language, I have no experience in programming. Not sure how relevant this is for a beginner language, but I've only taken college algebra.

Just pick any language. The basics of programming are all transferable anyway.

This question always sounds like someone who doesn't speak a word of French agonizing over whether he wants to speak French with a provençal or a quebecois accent.

It will take years and years of work to become a proficient programmer. Don't look for shortcuts and life hacks. Just begin with anything and learn the fundamentals.

The best programmers I know have an attitude that they can work with any language. It's only novices and recruitment agents that focus on the importance of "having" 2 years of x language.

Heart Break Kid · 01-27-2016 01:22 PM

(01-27-2016 01:14 PM)Tigre Wrote:
(01-27-2016 12:23 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote: Hey guys, what languages do you think are worth learning and which ones are on the way out?

I'd like to pick up a language, I have no experience in programming. Not sure how relevant this is for a beginner language, but I've only taken college algebra.

Just pick any language. The basics of programming are all transferable anyway.

This question always sounds like someone who doesn't speak a word of French agonizing over whether he wants to speak French with a provençal or a quebecois accent.

It will take years and years of work to become a proficient programmer. Don't look for shortcuts and life hacks. Just begin with anything and learn the fundamentals.

The best programmers I know have an attitude that they can work with any language. It's only novices and recruitment agents that focus on the importance of "having" 2 years of x language.

Makes sense, but I am sure there are some languages that are more accessible, no?

alecks · 01-27-2016 01:54 PM

(01-27-2016 01:22 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:
(01-27-2016 01:14 PM)Tigre Wrote:
(01-27-2016 12:23 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote: Hey guys, what languages do you think are worth learning and which ones are on the way out?

I'd like to pick up a language, I have no experience in programming. Not sure how relevant this is for a beginner language, but I've only taken college algebra.

Just pick any language. The basics of programming are all transferable anyway.

This question always sounds like someone who doesn't speak a word of French agonizing over whether he wants to speak French with a provençal or a quebecois accent.

It will take years and years of work to become a proficient programmer. Don't look for shortcuts and life hacks. Just begin with anything and learn the fundamentals.

The best programmers I know have an attitude that they can work with any language. It's only novices and recruitment agents that focus on the importance of "having" 2 years of x language.

Makes sense, but I am sure there are some languages that are more accessible, no?

just start with html css and javascript on codecademy

RichieP · 01-27-2016 07:23 PM

Start with one that lets you build the things you want to build...

What do you actually want to make?

Cattle Rustler · 01-27-2016 09:09 PM

(01-27-2016 01:54 PM)alecks Wrote:
(01-27-2016 01:22 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:
(01-27-2016 01:14 PM)Tigre Wrote:
(01-27-2016 12:23 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote: Hey guys, what languages do you think are worth learning and which ones are on the way out?

I'd like to pick up a language, I have no experience in programming. Not sure how relevant this is for a beginner language, but I've only taken college algebra.

Just pick any language. The basics of programming are all transferable anyway.

This question always sounds like someone who doesn't speak a word of French agonizing over whether he wants to speak French with a provençal or a quebecois accent.

It will take years and years of work to become a proficient programmer. Don't look for shortcuts and life hacks. Just begin with anything and learn the fundamentals.

The best programmers I know have an attitude that they can work with any language. It's only novices and recruitment agents that focus on the importance of "having" 2 years of x language.

Makes sense, but I am sure there are some languages that are more accessible, no?

just start with html css and javascript on codecademy

HTML is not a language, ditto for CSS.

Start with Java and Python. Ruby is on the decline.

The thing is so many things use Java that you will have a job forever. Most new stuff has Python.

Also, guys be on the lookout for the increased demand in legacy languages such as FORTRAN and COBOL. A lot of old folks are retiring and multinationals need people who are proficient at this shit. IBM partnered with my college to roll out courses in COBOL, some students got job offers to maintain their systems running.

weambulance · 01-27-2016 09:50 PM

(01-27-2016 12:55 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:
(01-27-2016 03:08 AM)weambulance Wrote: Don't learn a language just because, learn it because you have a specific need. For example, I have some web apps I wrote in Python on the Django framework. To bring them over to Android, I'll use Java because that's what Android apps are written in. I have barely used Java, but I have no doubt I can make it work.

Do you have a readers digest for what languages are most useful for solving specific tasks?

You need to answer the simple question: what do you want to build? Then we can give meaningful advice.

Python is easy to learn, and is my go-to language for most personal projects.

Codecademy has a Python course for free. There's Learn Python the Hard Way, again, for free online. Django has a tutorial on its site, free.

alecks · 01-27-2016 11:07 PM

(01-27-2016 09:09 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:
(01-27-2016 01:54 PM)alecks Wrote:
(01-27-2016 01:22 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:
(01-27-2016 01:14 PM)Tigre Wrote:
(01-27-2016 12:23 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote: Hey guys, what languages do you think are worth learning and which ones are on the way out?

I'd like to pick up a language, I have no experience in programming. Not sure how relevant this is for a beginner language, but I've only taken college algebra.

Just pick any language. The basics of programming are all transferable anyway.

This question always sounds like someone who doesn't speak a word of French agonizing over whether he wants to speak French with a provençal or a quebecois accent.

It will take years and years of work to become a proficient programmer. Don't look for shortcuts and life hacks. Just begin with anything and learn the fundamentals.

The best programmers I know have an attitude that they can work with any language. It's only novices and recruitment agents that focus on the importance of "having" 2 years of x language.

Makes sense, but I am sure there are some languages that are more accessible, no?

just start with html css and javascript on codecademy

HTML is not a language, ditto for CSS.

Start with Java and Python. Ruby is on the decline.

The thing is so many things use Java that you will have a job forever. Most new stuff has Python.

Also, guys be on the lookout for the increased demand in legacy languages such as FORTRAN and COBOL. A lot of old folks are retiring and multinationals need people who are proficient at this shit. IBM partnered with my college to roll out courses in COBOL, some students got job offers to maintain their systems running.

yep your right, they aren't actual languages but they are easy for someone to learn to get the inital feet wet in coding. I finished the html/css tutorials on codecademy and now onto javascript.

Is the best thing I can do with html/css/javascript knowledge is just build a couple bad ass sites or what else can I do? I don't want to keep jumping from one to another without really understanding the concepts behind them even though they aren't full blown languages like python,ruby,php etc. So I'd like to know what the possibilities are for these beginner languages before moving on.

Thanks

Hoo · 01-27-2016 11:23 PM

(01-27-2016 11:07 PM)alecks Wrote:
(01-27-2016 09:09 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:
(01-27-2016 01:54 PM)alecks Wrote:
(01-27-2016 01:22 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:
(01-27-2016 01:14 PM)Tigre Wrote: Just pick any language. The basics of programming are all transferable anyway.

This question always sounds like someone who doesn't speak a word of French agonizing over whether he wants to speak French with a provençal or a quebecois accent.

It will take years and years of work to become a proficient programmer. Don't look for shortcuts and life hacks. Just begin with anything and learn the fundamentals.

The best programmers I know have an attitude that they can work with any language. It's only novices and recruitment agents that focus on the importance of "having" 2 years of x language.

Makes sense, but I am sure there are some languages that are more accessible, no?

just start with html css and javascript on codecademy

HTML is not a language, ditto for CSS.

Start with Java and Python. Ruby is on the decline.

The thing is so many things use Java that you will have a job forever. Most new stuff has Python.

Also, guys be on the lookout for the increased demand in legacy languages such as FORTRAN and COBOL. A lot of old folks are retiring and multinationals need people who are proficient at this shit. IBM partnered with my college to roll out courses in COBOL, some students got job offers to maintain their systems running.

yep your right, they aren't actual languages but they are easy for someone to learn to get the inital feet wet in coding. I finished the html/css tutorials on codecademy and now onto javascript.

Is the best thing I can do with html/css/javascript knowledge is just build a couple bad ass sites or what else can I do? I don't want to keep jumping from one to another without really understanding the concepts behind them even though they aren't full blown languages like python,ruby,php etc. So I'd like to know what the possibilities are for these beginner languages before moving on.

Thanks

It's good to understand basics but you won't be needing that much html/css anyway (just learn bootstrap).

If web development is your #1 priority then learn JS first. You will likely need it for front-end anyway and these days you can use it for backend as well(node).

Currently it's trendy to use something like reactJS(I would actually learn this first)/angular on frontend and node,rails,django/flask at backend.

weambulance · 01-27-2016 11:47 PM

(01-27-2016 11:07 PM)alecks Wrote: Is the best thing I can do with html/css/javascript knowledge is just build a couple bad ass sites or what else can I do? I don't want to keep jumping from one to another without really understanding the concepts behind them even though they aren't full blown languages like python,ruby,php etc. So I'd like to know what the possibilities are for these beginner languages before moving on.

Echoing what Hoo said...

Javascript is good for a lot more than just website behavior these days, what with AngularJS (framework) and node.js (backend). If you just want to make your own stuff--or build things from scratch for clients--there's really no reason you can't just use Javascript instead of Python/Ruby/PHP. Javascript is a full blown language.

It's when you start playing in other peoples' sandboxes that you'll need to learn new languages. And by then, it won't be hard to do so (usually).

~~jj90~~ · 01-28-2016 01:26 AM

There's nothing wrong with building just some bad ass sites. Web design is a rare talent that commands a hefty premium.

While in this age of odesk and freelancing you may be competing with some overseas talent that will quote at a fraction of your rate, many people in the West still prefer to do business by referral. If you can show your talents and are local, you can charge at a premium and get paid.

A dude in my program who is the best front end guy in my class, can crank out a beautiful, interactive site with a form and order processing in 1 week. Sites on that caliber go for 3-5K locally. That's money.

Thrill Jackson · 03-29-2016 12:47 PM

When I search for "Python developer" in my area I find very few jobs. Should I be more general with my job search? What are the best phrases tobuse when looking for computer programming jobs?

~~jj90~~ · 03-29-2016 09:32 PM

@Phil Jackson: I almost guarantee if you try, junior, javascript, Angular, Node.js, jquery, android, git, mobile, as keywords you'll have a lot more responses.

No Habit · 04-17-2016 01:59 AM

I'm still kind of startled how you did this french, truly amazing. How did your curriculum vitae look? Is it really possible to enter the job as a programmer with any kind of background? I want to do the same but my CV is really fucked up.

I started programming in my freetime when I was 16 years old. I only got a secondary school certificate and quit school with 18 while having really bad marks. At age 21 I wanted to do an apprenticeship as an IT Specialist for Application Programming but because of me quitting school I didn't get a job. So I started an apprenticeship as an IT Specialist for System Integration instead and made a deal with the boss that I would be able to code on the job even though System Integration focuses on networking.

The apprenticeship was really bad, I didn't learn a thing in the company, I was doing first level support on the phone / at the customer and had to manually install new devices all the time. I coded probably for two months, taught myself Python and Windows Powershell. If I couldn't work as a programmer, I wanted at least to go deep into networking and administration but I ended up doing those brainless jobs anyone could do while getting all the fire from the customers because I was standing in frontline.

The apprenticeship should end after 3 years. I had excellent marks in school, where we were taught how to code in Java, what we did there in 3 years I already taught myself in a few weeks before starting the apprenticeship. I came late to the exams, finished early and still got the best marks. The job was draining my soul, though, plus I was working with really fucked up colleagues who would play mind games all the time and tried to dominate me and shit even though they were 10 to 20 years my senior. So after 2.5 years I had a mental breakdown, went into closed psychiatry and everything. I bounced back from it and wrote my final exam and passed it with an below average score.

If you want to finish an apprenticeship you also have to do a project in the company like setting up a WiFi infrastructure or a backup system or something like that. I didn't had any idea what kind of project I should do, turned to my supervisor and ended up just configuring a part of a System Management Suite which wasn't enough to pass. So I had to prolong the whole thing by 6 months. I was still taking medication and lost all purpose in life to the point of having suicidal thoughts. After two months I said fuck this shit and quit.

During the following weeks my whole life changed. I found my purpose in life, stopped taking meds, started eating clean, started to approach women and so on...

Now I have to find a new job, though and as you can imagine it's pretty tough. The interviewers have no sympathy at all for why I quit school and they cannot understand how anyone in this world would quit an apprenticeship so close before finish especially when having such great marks. They see me as a lazy and/or unstable person, even though my reference of former employer only says great things about me. I plan on working production jobs for the next three years while finishing my school education in free time.

Long story short: Do you think one is able to pull off the stuff you did without having completed an apprenticeship or without having a bachelor/master in computer science with a CV that looks like you're a quitter?

I am living in Germany and like Phil Jackson I looked up Python Programmer in my area but only found two offers. They are mostly looking for Java and PHP developers here.

frenchcorporation · 04-17-2016 07:47 AM

Its very doable, my degree isnt in computer science, and for some of the jobs I've had, I didnt even put my degree on my application.

I have a friend who i convinced to start programming, he quit is university degree halfway through, did some random bartending jobs for a while, now he's a full time programmer. Companies are desperate for junior developers, just get a portfolio of code together, and a company will give you a chance soon enough.

If there arent any python jobs in your area, pick a more popular language , the first language you learn doesnt matter much. Out of Java and php id reccomend learning Java, it used to be the beginner language of choice before python came around.

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