Post: #26

What if instead of fleeing after graduation you flee immediately upon taking the loan, without ever attending the college? Just grab your $200 000 and leave to have fun somewhere the moment you graduate high school?

Post: #27

(01-20-2016 12:27 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  It's possible, sure, but the human cost of it....

It'd basically ensure that you'd never be able to step foot in your home country ever again. All it would take to screw you permanently would be for a foreign government to want you deported for any reason whatsoever. And with US citizens, you have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not you are outside the country. You could go to jail for years if the US government got their hands on you.

It'd basically ensure you'd be living the rest of your life on the semi-run.

If you spend 5-10 years in another country you may well obtain the nationality. Once you obtain the passport you can buy a ticket to the U. S. and A and enter the country as a tourist. You guys only have one name and a surname, so I think is pretty difficult to track a Daniel Jones from Phoenix Arizona when he comes back for tourism as Daniel Jones from Galway, Ireland.

Post: #28

HCE,
They don't give the full amount upfront. They give you an amount at the start of each semester enough to cover your tuition, books and living expenses for the semester.

Post: #29

That's a really great idea, get a bunch of credit cards, pay off your student loans, and then declare bankruptcy or default.

Your credit will be complete horseshit but at least your cosigners are completely off the hook. You can also live in the US.
It's a win-win.

Post: #30

(01-20-2016 07:43 AM)Hades Wrote:  That's a really great idea, get a bunch of credit cards, pay off your student loans, and then declare bankruptcy or default.

Your credit will be complete horseshit but at least your cosigners are completely off the hook. You can also live in the US.
It's a win-win.

Except you can't use credit cards to pay off a student loan. At any rate, if your debt level is low enough so that a credit card can pay it off you may as well bite the bullet and just pay the loan. Going nuclear on your loans only starts to become a feasible option once your debt is at least 1.5x your income...and nobody is ever going to give you an unsecured loan on anywhere near 1.5 times your income.

Post: #31

(01-20-2016 06:25 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 12:27 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  It's possible, sure, but the human cost of it....

It'd basically ensure that you'd never be able to step foot in your home country ever again. All it would take to screw you permanently would be for a foreign government to want you deported for any reason whatsoever. And with US citizens, you have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not you are outside the country. You could go to jail for years if the US government got their hands on you.

It'd basically ensure you'd be living the rest of your life on the semi-run.

I've got a couple of American friends living in the UK avoiding student loans. It's not like being on the run, they both regularly visit the U.S. with no problems. It just means they can't work in the U.S.

In both of their cases, they're $150k+ in debt thanks to grad school. Adding on interest thats 5-10 years of their life their lifestyle would suffer massively paying that back. Even worse, the repayments hit you hardest in the years when you earn the least and want to maximise the fun you have with your money - your youth.

It makes perfect sense to decide not to pay that. Instead, they're working in pretty much the exact same white collar jobs they'd be doing in the U.S., with much more disposable income thanks to no debt repayments, in a country that speaks English, and are pretty much equi-distant from their East Coast families as if they lived in California.

Starting off your post-college life in your 20s with basically a mortgage, with no house to show for it, is madness. I'm really surprised more Americans don't just emigrate and ditch the loans. If there was more of a culture of youth emigration in the U.S. (as you find in Australia, Ireland, NZ etc) I think it would be far more common.

It might help reduce fees too, if universities realised people were more likely to default because they're so excessive. Someone with 20k in debt is unlikely to permanently emigrate to avoid it, someone with 200k in debt is a hell of a lot more likely to do so.

The gravy train is going to end soon for those visitors. As others have mentioned, its an IRS priority to deal with foreign tax evasion and those student loan evaders will be caught in the dragnet by default. How will this happen you ask?

1. There was a proposal to seize passports of those with an outstanding tax debt of $50k in the tax extender bill this year. If those expats aren't filing returns as part of their loan evasion plan, the IRS creates something called a "substitute for return" on their behalf which begins to calculate their tax liability...which will be large as they've had nothing witheld being abroad.

2. FBAR reporting. Another tax and tracking initiative requires foreign banks to send banking information for any US citizen back to the US government. Thats stage 1, stage 2 is that those foreign banks will actually garnish or turn over funds to the US gov't if that person has a tax liability. If you think that won't expand to other federal debts...you're crazy.

3. Another member already mentioned, that even if you renounce citizenship, the US isn't going to 'let you go' unless you file a departure/exit tax which essentially wraps up all of your liabilities.

In short, these debt dodgers will be caught eventually. The same way that American's who went to Canada in the 70s and 80s and either wilfully or ignorantly didn't file their US taxes are now being crushed with taxes as the US gov't finds them via the FBAR agreement and says "hi, you owe us 25 years of back taxes, with penalties and interest"

The global net of big brother is real.

Post: #32

(01-20-2016 06:25 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 12:27 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  It's possible, sure, but the human cost of it....

It'd basically ensure that you'd never be able to step foot in your home country ever again. All it would take to screw you permanently would be for a foreign government to want you deported for any reason whatsoever. And with US citizens, you have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not you are outside the country. You could go to jail for years if the US government got their hands on you.

It'd basically ensure you'd be living the rest of your life on the semi-run.

I've got a couple of American friends living in the UK avoiding student loans. It's not like being on the run, they both regularly visit the U.S. with no problems. It just means they can't work in the U.S.

In both of their cases, they're $150k+ in debt thanks to grad school. Adding on interest thats 5-10 years of their life their lifestyle would suffer massively paying that back. Even worse, the repayments hit you hardest in the years when you earn the least and want to maximise the fun you have with your money - your youth.

It makes perfect sense to decide not to pay that. Instead, they're working in pretty much the exact same white collar jobs they'd be doing in the U.S., with much more disposable income thanks to no debt repayments, in a country that speaks English, and are pretty much equi-distant from their East Coast families as if they lived in California.

Starting off your post-college life in your 20s with basically a mortgage, with no house to show for it, is madness. I'm really surprised more Americans don't just emigrate and ditch the loans. If there was more of a culture of youth emigration in the U.S. (as you find in Australia, Ireland, NZ etc) I think it would be far more common.

It might help reduce fees too, if universities realised people were more likely to default because they're so excessive. Someone with 20k in debt is unlikely to permanently emigrate to avoid it, someone with 200k in debt is a hell of a lot more likely to do so.

Emigrating from the US is an incredibly difficult endeavor for most Americans. It took me quite a bit of money and work from my own employer to get me a working visa in a foreign country. If you don't qualify for a job on the job shortages list you're SOL.

Commonwealth countries and most of Europe have all sorts of easy visa tricks and treaties that make it a breeze to go from one place to another. Americans? Not sure much.

Granted, most Americans want to move to other 1st world nations. If they buckled down and tried moving to South America, China, or a 3rd world country they wouldn't have much of any problem getting a work visa.

(01-20-2016 07:54 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 07:43 AM)Hades Wrote:  That's a really great idea, get a bunch of credit cards, pay off your student loans, and then declare bankruptcy or default.

Your credit will be complete horseshit but at least your cosigners are completely off the hook. You can also live in the US.
It's a win-win.

Except you can't use credit cards to pay off a student loan. At any rate, if your debt level is low enough so that a credit card can pay it off you may as well bite the bullet and just pay the loan. Going nuclear on your loans only starts to become a feasible option once your debt is at least 1.5x your income...and nobody is ever going to give you an unsecured loan on anywhere near 1.5 times your income.

This is incredibly tricky and most likely impossible. Most federal student loan systems don't have a means for paying with a credit card. Mine didn't, it only allowed ACH from a checking account.

Second, most of my credit cards have a low cash advance limit. My first card only had 1k for cash advances and my AMEX and Chase card only have 6500$ between both of them. Those cards only became available to me after I paid off my student loans as well.

I doubt anyone would be able to make this work. The CC companies wised up.

The easiest way to pay off your loans would be to wait for a market drop, invest in some cash (5k?) and wait for the bull run to take off. Wait a few years and use the stock sale to pay off the majority of your loans.

I had 15k after I graduated high school, my biggest regret was not investing it into the market in 2009 when everything was near zero. I would be able to afford an over priced apartment now.

Post: #33

Not a bad idea. You got plenty of people fleeing America because of the women, why not debt.

Education system is broken from pre k to PhD, but so is the economic system. Well actually, they both work perfectly as designed if you understand the design.

Create employees and consumers.
Not employers and producers.

It's part is the general anti intellectual undercurrent of American culture.

Arguably it's the docile economic nature of the population that's allowed some to get fabulously rich. In places where people aren't so passive a bargaining culture sows the seed of dissent and mistrust.

When a man thinks that everyone else is trying to cheat him, when every trade must be negotiated....

WIA

Post: #34

(01-20-2016 07:55 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 06:25 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 12:27 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  It's possible, sure, but the human cost of it....

It'd basically ensure that you'd never be able to step foot in your home country ever again. All it would take to screw you permanently would be for a foreign government to want you deported for any reason whatsoever. And with US citizens, you have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not you are outside the country. You could go to jail for years if the US government got their hands on you.

It'd basically ensure you'd be living the rest of your life on the semi-run.

I've got a couple of American friends living in the UK avoiding student loans. It's not like being on the run, they both regularly visit the U.S. with no problems. It just means they can't work in the U.S.

In both of their cases, they're $150k+ in debt thanks to grad school. Adding on interest thats 5-10 years of their life their lifestyle would suffer massively paying that back. Even worse, the repayments hit you hardest in the years when you earn the least and want to maximise the fun you have with your money - your youth.

It makes perfect sense to decide not to pay that. Instead, they're working in pretty much the exact same white collar jobs they'd be doing in the U.S., with much more disposable income thanks to no debt repayments, in a country that speaks English, and are pretty much equi-distant from their East Coast families as if they lived in California.

Starting off your post-college life in your 20s with basically a mortgage, with no house to show for it, is madness. I'm really surprised more Americans don't just emigrate and ditch the loans. If there was more of a culture of youth emigration in the U.S. (as you find in Australia, Ireland, NZ etc) I think it would be far more common.

It might help reduce fees too, if universities realised people were more likely to default because they're so excessive. Someone with 20k in debt is unlikely to permanently emigrate to avoid it, someone with 200k in debt is a hell of a lot more likely to do so.

The gravy train is going to end soon for those visitors. As others have mentioned, its an IRS priority to deal with foreign tax evasion and those student loan evaders will be caught in the dragnet by default. How will this happen you ask?

1. There was a proposal to seize passports of those with an outstanding tax debt of $50k in the tax extender bill this year. If those expats aren't filing returns as part of their loan evasion plan, the IRS creates something called a "substitute for return" on their behalf which begins to calculate their tax liability...which will be large as they've had nothing witheld being abroad.

2. FBAR reporting. Another tax and tracking initiative requires foreign banks to send banking information for any US citizen back to the US government. Thats stage 1, stage 2 is that those foreign banks will actually garnish or turn over funds to the US gov't if that person has a tax liability. If you think that won't expand to other federal debts...you're crazy.

3. Another member already mentioned, that even if you renounce citizenship, the US isn't going to 'let you go' unless you file a departure/exit tax which essentially wraps up all of your liabilities.

In short, these debt dodgers will be caught eventually. The same way that American's who went to Canada in the 70s and 80s and either wilfully or ignorantly didn't file their US taxes are now being crushed with taxes as the US gov't finds them via the FBAR agreement and says "hi, you owe us 25 years of back taxes, with penalties and interest"

The global net of big brother is real.

I definitely agree with the gist of what you're saying in regards to the evil tentacles of the United States government reaching further and further to control its slaves I mean citizens. With taxes, you're probably fucked trying to escape unless you live in China, Russia, or other countries not in orbit of the tentacles.

With loans, the question is different. Each country has different laws in regards to loans. On what grounds would the Australian government, to take an example, start garnishing your Australian wages for a debt you held in a foreign country? Such jurisdiction makes no sense. Also, wouldn't Australian bankruptcy laws apply to you when in Australia? Surely the Australian court system would have to obey Australian bankruptcy laws when attempting to garnish your wages for unpaid debts, and I don't think Australian bankruptcy laws recognize the concept of "nondischargeable" loans which are an evil unique to the monstrous US Government.

If the Australian courts attempted to start garnishing your wages, you could declare bankruptcy under Australian law and avoid the garnishment. I cannot see how the Australian courts could possibly deny you protections offered under their own legal system just because a foreign country (USA) does not offer the same protections. Australia is just a random example.

Furthermore, stiffing the government on taxes is classified as a crime. Loans are not part of the criminal system - you cannot go to prison or otherwise be punished via the criminal courts for not paying back loans. This makes me skeptical the US government could ever start taking punitive actions against student loan defaulters such as revoking passports or pressuring foreign countries for wage garnishment. The creditor-borrower relationship is a commercial contract. There is an element of risk to the lender that is factored into the interest rate. Student loans are just a normal commercial contract with an additional stipulation related to bankruptcy, but other than that they are not any more subject to criminal penalties for nonpayment than a mortgage or a car loan.

Post: #35

Only a coward would skip the country to avoid taking responsibility.

I got brainwashed into racking up $80K in debt from my parents, teachers, society, etc. My parents never went to college so they thought it would give me the best chance at success. Unfortunately the system is different than when they were graduating high school in the in the late 70's/early 80's. I knew since grade school I was going to go to college.

My dad took out all the student loans for 18 year old me and my mom made sure there was enough money to live on. They wanted me to focus on school and not finances. Guess what happens when you give a bright 18 year old living expenses for the semester? He skips classes and only attends the tests. He does just enough to make the dean's list, even though he would play beer pong before lectures he actually went to. He blows money on partying and getting laid instead of putting the extra money back towards the loan at the end of the semester. He only picks up jobs for extra beer money and late night pizza.

Is it entirely my fault for the high amount of debt? Absolutely not, I was young and dumb and did what most kids would do in that situation. I also didn't understand the magnitude of the debt until I had to start making payments six months after graduation. But I'm a man and realize it's my responsibility to pay it back. I'm not going to run to Asia like a little bitch and hope debt collectors don't find me, all while screwing my family for cosigning.

It's probably going to take a decade to pay all the money back and I've budgeted money aside each month to make payments. I can make higher payments as the years pass and my salary increases.

Even though I don't agree with the system, I still accepted the money. Just because the government is fucking everyone over doesn't negate my responsibility to fulfill my side of the contract.

Post: #36

(01-20-2016 07:55 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  The gravy train is going to end soon for those visitors. As others have mentioned, its an IRS priority to deal with foreign tax evasion and those student loan evaders will be caught in the dragnet by default. How will this happen you ask?

1. There was a proposal to seize passports of those with an outstanding tax debt of $50k in the tax extender bill this year. If those expats aren't filing returns as part of their loan evasion plan, the IRS creates something called a "substitute for return" on their behalf which begins to calculate their tax liability...which will be large as they've had nothing witheld being abroad.

2. FBAR reporting. Another tax and tracking initiative requires foreign banks to send banking information for any US citizen back to the US government. Thats stage 1, stage 2 is that those foreign banks will actually garnish or turn over funds to the US gov't if that person has a tax liability. If you think that won't expand to other federal debts...you're crazy.

3. Another member already mentioned, that even if you renounce citizenship, the US isn't going to 'let you go' unless you file a departure/exit tax which essentially wraps up all of your liabilities.

In short, these debt dodgers will be caught eventually. The same way that American's who went to Canada in the 70s and 80s and either wilfully or ignorantly didn't file their US taxes are now being crushed with taxes as the US gov't finds them via the FBAR agreement and says "hi, you owe us 25 years of back taxes, with penalties and interest"

The global net of big brother is real.

As it currently stands however avoiding student loan debt is not considered tax evasion, right? This may change in the future, but as of right now the IRS doesn't concern itself with chasing down student loan debtors in foreign countries as far as I'm aware.

As more and more voters in the U.S. come of politically active age while still holding substantial student loan debt I also can't see it being politically palpable to make moves to reinforce it. But it is a risk, I agree.

I know in my anecdotal case one of the two guys claimed an Irish passport through a grandparent (an option also open to those of Italian descent - meaning quite a few people in the U.S. are eligible between either Irish/Italian family) so he isn't particularly concerned about any future changes. For the other guy, he plans on either living in the UK long enough to apply for a British passport or else marrying a local (for romance or citizenship, either/or).

Obviously self-imposed working-exile like this isn't ideal...but if the alternative is spending 10+ years ruining your 20s/30s paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt I think its a smart enough choice.

(01-20-2016 08:01 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Emigrating from the US is an incredibly difficult endeavor for most Americans. It took me quite a bit of money and work from my own employer to get me a working visa in a foreign country. If you don't qualify for a job on the job shortages list you're SOL.

Commonwealth countries and most of Europe have all sorts of easy visa tricks and treaties that make it a breeze to go from one place to another. Americans? Not sure much.

Granted, most Americans want to move to other 1st world nations. If they buckled down and tried moving to South America, China, or a 3rd world country they wouldn't have much of any problem getting a work visa.

As far as I'm aware Americans qualify for most of the easy Anglosphere youth working visas. I know offhand for:

Ireland ( https://www.dfa.ie/travel/visas/us-irela...angements/ )
Australia (http://www.visabureau.com/australia/aust...-visa.aspx )
and New Zealand ( http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/s...scheme.htm )

its true anyway. These are the types of visas most Anglosphere emigrants get when they finish college that allows them to move to another 1st world country very easily. Once they're in-country working in a decent job its then possible to upgrade to a longer-term visa.

I think awareness of such schemes is a LOT lower in the US than elsewhere though, which is a major problem.

Post: #37

(01-20-2016 08:40 AM)wi30 Wrote:  Only a coward would skip the country to avoid taking responsibility.

I got brainwashed into racking up $80K in debt from my parents, teachers, society, etc. My parents never went to college so they thought it would give me the best chance at success. Unfortunately the system is different than when they were graduating high school in the in the late 70's/early 80's. I knew since grade school I was going to go to college.

My dad took out all the student loans for 18 year old me and my mom made sure there was enough money to live on. They wanted me to focus on school and not finances. Guess what happens when you give a bright 18 year old living expenses for the semester? He skips classes and only attends the tests. He does just enough to make the dean's list, even though he would play beer pong before lectures he actually went to. He blows money on partying and getting laid instead of putting the extra money back towards the loan at the end of the semester. He only picks up jobs for extra beer money and late night pizza.

Is it entirely my fault for the high amount of debt? Absolutely not, I was young and dumb and did what most kids would do in that situation. I also didn't understand the magnitude of the debt until I had to start making payments six months after graduation. But I'm a man and realize it's my responsibility to pay it back. I'm not going to run to Asia like a little bitch and hope debt collectors don't find me, all while screwing my family for cosigning.

It's probably going to take a decade to pay all the money back and I've budgeted money aside each month to make payments. I can make higher payments as the years pass and my salary increases.

Even though I don't agree with the system, I still accepted the money. Just because the government is fucking everyone over doesn't negate my responsibility to fulfill my side of the contract.

Yes, if your family cosigns the loan it would reflect badly on you to shaft your family by absconding. If you didn't have a cosigner...it's an entirely different story. Spare us the moral grandstanding. There isn't anything noble about getting your shit pushed in by hostile institutions and you should take no pride in it. This is why our country is so cucked: we are being exploited and cheated at every turn by unscrupulous scumbags and our response it to "do the right thing" and actively assist the scumbags in the act of fleecing us.

In many situations you have to pay "protection money" to scumbags for the privilege of going about your business, whether it be a restaurant, bar, or whatever. This situation exists because of a disparity in power between yourself and the scumbags. Think of 6 figure college tuition as the protection money you have to pay to the government/banking/education mafia. You have no choice about it: the Federal Government demands protection money (by offering unlimited loans) so if you want to go about the business of getting a college degree you have to pay the outrageous prices created by said unlimited loans. These outrageous prices are an artificial construct created by the government.

Yes, you could argue that if you don't like it, don't go to college. Well fine. By this logic, if you don't like paying protection money to thugs, don't open up a bar or a restaurant, right? Or if you don't want to get your ass beat by rapefugees, don't leave your house.

The point is, we instinctively recognize situations that are unjust. The student loan racket is exactly such an unjust situation, an artificially created racket designed specifically to rent seek and exploit through the government ability to create whatever reality it wishes by sheer fiat. Fuck them. If you can leave these fuckers high and dry without adversely impacting yourself and other parties close to you, absolutely do it. If you want to open up a restaurant you should not have to pay random street thugs protection money, and if you want to go to law school you should not have to pay 300k as a result of Government fiat. When confronted with street thugs demanding money through threat of violence, there is nothing morally wrong about responding with shotgun blast to the face. When confronted with the student loan racket, there is nothing morally wrong with not paying those loans back.

Post: #38

No one is forced to take out student loans.

Take two classes a semester and get a full time job. You can graduate debt free by working two gigs and going to school. That way we won't have whiny little bitches.

Get s roommate or go back to your parents and save some money. If you're not a dumbfuck, then grants and scholarships should set you free. If you're poor then need based aid will get you there.

If you can't afford to roll in the big leagues, learn your limits and bust your ass off either working or studying. Not everyone should go to NYU.

I paid 20k off in loans in a year by doing extra shit on the side and not going out every weekend like a 'tard. Sill got laid.

Post: #39

Fast Eddie, apples and oranges.

We are speaking about American colleges, not third-world thugs. Your analogy is not accurate. No one held a gun to my head and said, "take out these student loans or we'll blow your brains out". I could have just as easily spent a couple grand and a few semesters at a tech school and learned a trade. No one forced me to go to college. While teachers and my parents influenced me, it was still my decision.

I made the decision to use student loans to go to college. I'm also making the decision to fulfill my side of the contract. Apparently keeping my word makes me a "cuck".

Here is another example. I think my landlord is doing a shitty job. Am I going to stop paying rent and skip out on my lease because I don't like what they are doing? No, I'm going to fulfill my side of the contract and not sign another lease with them. I'll also tell everyone I know not to rent from them. I'm handling college loans the same way. Hopefully some younger posters can see my posts and spare themselves the headache.

Your lack of honor and self-serving attitude is not what this country needs right now.

Post: #40

(01-20-2016 08:16 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 07:55 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 06:25 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 12:27 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  It's possible, sure, but the human cost of it....

It'd basically ensure that you'd never be able to step foot in your home country ever again. All it would take to screw you permanently would be for a foreign government to want you deported for any reason whatsoever. And with US citizens, you have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not you are outside the country. You could go to jail for years if the US government got their hands on you.

It'd basically ensure you'd be living the rest of your life on the semi-run.

I've got a couple of American friends living in the UK avoiding student loans. It's not like being on the run, they both regularly visit the U.S. with no problems. It just means they can't work in the U.S.

In both of their cases, they're $150k+ in debt thanks to grad school. Adding on interest thats 5-10 years of their life their lifestyle would suffer massively paying that back. Even worse, the repayments hit you hardest in the years when you earn the least and want to maximise the fun you have with your money - your youth.

It makes perfect sense to decide not to pay that. Instead, they're working in pretty much the exact same white collar jobs they'd be doing in the U.S., with much more disposable income thanks to no debt repayments, in a country that speaks English, and are pretty much equi-distant from their East Coast families as if they lived in California.

Starting off your post-college life in your 20s with basically a mortgage, with no house to show for it, is madness. I'm really surprised more Americans don't just emigrate and ditch the loans. If there was more of a culture of youth emigration in the U.S. (as you find in Australia, Ireland, NZ etc) I think it would be far more common.

It might help reduce fees too, if universities realised people were more likely to default because they're so excessive. Someone with 20k in debt is unlikely to permanently emigrate to avoid it, someone with 200k in debt is a hell of a lot more likely to do so.

The gravy train is going to end soon for those visitors. As others have mentioned, its an IRS priority to deal with foreign tax evasion and those student loan evaders will be caught in the dragnet by default. How will this happen you ask?

1. There was a proposal to seize passports of those with an outstanding tax debt of $50k in the tax extender bill this year. If those expats aren't filing returns as part of their loan evasion plan, the IRS creates something called a "substitute for return" on their behalf which begins to calculate their tax liability...which will be large as they've had nothing witheld being abroad.

2. FBAR reporting. Another tax and tracking initiative requires foreign banks to send banking information for any US citizen back to the US government. Thats stage 1, stage 2 is that those foreign banks will actually garnish or turn over funds to the US gov't if that person has a tax liability. If you think that won't expand to other federal debts...you're crazy.

3. Another member already mentioned, that even if you renounce citizenship, the US isn't going to 'let you go' unless you file a departure/exit tax which essentially wraps up all of your liabilities.

In short, these debt dodgers will be caught eventually. The same way that American's who went to Canada in the 70s and 80s and either wilfully or ignorantly didn't file their US taxes are now being crushed with taxes as the US gov't finds them via the FBAR agreement and says "hi, you owe us 25 years of back taxes, with penalties and interest"

The global net of big brother is real.

I definitely agree with the gist of what you're saying in regards to the evil tentacles of the United States government reaching further and further to control its slaves I mean citizens. With taxes, you're probably fucked trying to escape unless you live in China, Russia, or other countries not in orbit of the tentacles.

With loans, the question is different. Each country has different laws in regards to loans. On what grounds would the Australian government, to take an example, start garnishing your Australian wages for a debt you held in a foreign country? Such jurisdiction makes no sense. Also, wouldn't Australian bankruptcy laws apply to you when in Australia? Surely the Australian court system would have to obey Australian bankruptcy laws when attempting to garnish your wages for unpaid debts, and I don't think Australian bankruptcy laws recognize the concept of "nondischargeable" loans which are an evil unique to the monstrous US Government.

If the Australian courts attempted to start garnishing your wages, you could declare bankruptcy under Australian law and avoid the garnishment. I cannot see how the Australian courts could possibly deny you protections offered under their own legal system just because a foreign country (USA) does not offer the same protections. Australia is just a random example.

Furthermore, stiffing the government on taxes is classified as a crime. Loans are not part of the criminal system - you cannot go to prison or otherwise be punished via the criminal courts for not paying back loans. This makes me skeptical the US government could ever start taking punitive actions against student loan defaulters such as revoking passports or pressuring foreign countries for wage garnishment. The creditor-borrower relationship is a commercial contract. There is an element of risk to the lender that is factored into the interest rate. Student loans are just a normal commercial contract with an additional stipulation related to bankruptcy, but other than that they are not any more subject to criminal penalties for nonpayment than a mortgage or a car loan.

Regardless of what Australian courts think or say, Australian banks are beholden to the US FATCA rules which has pretty steep penalties for foreign banks who skirt these rules. I don't know what type of penalties but it relates to how wire systems work and settling US dollars. If the government wants to make a bank squirm they block the bank's ability to do business in the US. This is a very serious situation especially considering the dollar is still the reserve currency.

They can complain and moan all they want, but the fact of the matter is what the US government wants the US government gets especially when it pertains to its vassal states. It's only a matter of time until debtor's prison becomes a thing in the US.

As a New Zealand, Ireland, and Oz's visa programs, a cursory glance at them it looks to me that you can only extend the work visa one year after it expires for a max of two years total. What do you plan to do once those two years are up? You're going to have to get an employer to sponsor you or worse marry someone to stay bringing you back to square one.

Post: #41

(01-20-2016 09:29 AM)wi30 Wrote:  Fast Eddie, apples and oranges.

We are speaking about American colleges, not third-world thugs. Your analogy is not accurate. No one held a gun to my head and said, "take out these student loans or we'll blow your brains out". I could have just as easily spent a couple grand and a few semesters at a tech school and learned a trade. No one forced me to go to college. While teachers and my parents influenced me, it was still my decision.

I made the decision to use student loans to go to college. I'm also making the decision to fulfill my side of the contract. Apparently keeping my word makes me a "cuck".

Here is another example. I think my landlord is doing a shitty job. Am I going to stop paying rent and skip out on my lease because I don't like what they are doing? No, I'm going to fulfill my side of the contract and not sign another lease with them. I'll also tell everyone I know not to rent from them. I'm handling college loans the same way. Hopefully some younger posters can see my posts and spare themselves the headache.

Your lack of honor and self-serving attitude is not what this country needs right now.

Meh. I was talking about extortion rackets, not street muggings. No one forces you to open up a restaurant, either, so does this make it "ok" for the mafia or local toughs to extort money from you for the privilege of running a business in "their" hood? After all, instead of owning a restaurant you could have just worked at McDonald's and not worried about scumbag criminals extorting you.

I think you should re-read my post instead of getting all butthurt and questioning my "honor." It is clear that the actual point I was making flew right over your head.

Post: #42

(01-20-2016 09:53 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 08:16 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 07:55 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 06:25 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 12:27 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  It's possible, sure, but the human cost of it....

It'd basically ensure that you'd never be able to step foot in your home country ever again. All it would take to screw you permanently would be for a foreign government to want you deported for any reason whatsoever. And with US citizens, you have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not you are outside the country. You could go to jail for years if the US government got their hands on you.

It'd basically ensure you'd be living the rest of your life on the semi-run.

I've got a couple of American friends living in the UK avoiding student loans. It's not like being on the run, they both regularly visit the U.S. with no problems. It just means they can't work in the U.S.

In both of their cases, they're $150k+ in debt thanks to grad school. Adding on interest thats 5-10 years of their life their lifestyle would suffer massively paying that back. Even worse, the repayments hit you hardest in the years when you earn the least and want to maximise the fun you have with your money - your youth.

It makes perfect sense to decide not to pay that. Instead, they're working in pretty much the exact same white collar jobs they'd be doing in the U.S., with much more disposable income thanks to no debt repayments, in a country that speaks English, and are pretty much equi-distant from their East Coast families as if they lived in California.

Starting off your post-college life in your 20s with basically a mortgage, with no house to show for it, is madness. I'm really surprised more Americans don't just emigrate and ditch the loans. If there was more of a culture of youth emigration in the U.S. (as you find in Australia, Ireland, NZ etc) I think it would be far more common.

It might help reduce fees too, if universities realised people were more likely to default because they're so excessive. Someone with 20k in debt is unlikely to permanently emigrate to avoid it, someone with 200k in debt is a hell of a lot more likely to do so.

The gravy train is going to end soon for those visitors. As others have mentioned, its an IRS priority to deal with foreign tax evasion and those student loan evaders will be caught in the dragnet by default. How will this happen you ask?

1. There was a proposal to seize passports of those with an outstanding tax debt of $50k in the tax extender bill this year. If those expats aren't filing returns as part of their loan evasion plan, the IRS creates something called a "substitute for return" on their behalf which begins to calculate their tax liability...which will be large as they've had nothing witheld being abroad.

2. FBAR reporting. Another tax and tracking initiative requires foreign banks to send banking information for any US citizen back to the US government. Thats stage 1, stage 2 is that those foreign banks will actually garnish or turn over funds to the US gov't if that person has a tax liability. If you think that won't expand to other federal debts...you're crazy.

3. Another member already mentioned, that even if you renounce citizenship, the US isn't going to 'let you go' unless you file a departure/exit tax which essentially wraps up all of your liabilities.

In short, these debt dodgers will be caught eventually. The same way that American's who went to Canada in the 70s and 80s and either wilfully or ignorantly didn't file their US taxes are now being crushed with taxes as the US gov't finds them via the FBAR agreement and says "hi, you owe us 25 years of back taxes, with penalties and interest"

The global net of big brother is real.

I definitely agree with the gist of what you're saying in regards to the evil tentacles of the United States government reaching further and further to control its slaves I mean citizens. With taxes, you're probably fucked trying to escape unless you live in China, Russia, or other countries not in orbit of the tentacles.

With loans, the question is different. Each country has different laws in regards to loans. On what grounds would the Australian government, to take an example, start garnishing your Australian wages for a debt you held in a foreign country? Such jurisdiction makes no sense. Also, wouldn't Australian bankruptcy laws apply to you when in Australia? Surely the Australian court system would have to obey Australian bankruptcy laws when attempting to garnish your wages for unpaid debts, and I don't think Australian bankruptcy laws recognize the concept of "nondischargeable" loans which are an evil unique to the monstrous US Government.

If the Australian courts attempted to start garnishing your wages, you could declare bankruptcy under Australian law and avoid the garnishment. I cannot see how the Australian courts could possibly deny you protections offered under their own legal system just because a foreign country (USA) does not offer the same protections. Australia is just a random example.

Furthermore, stiffing the government on taxes is classified as a crime. Loans are not part of the criminal system - you cannot go to prison or otherwise be punished via the criminal courts for not paying back loans. This makes me skeptical the US government could ever start taking punitive actions against student loan defaulters such as revoking passports or pressuring foreign countries for wage garnishment. The creditor-borrower relationship is a commercial contract. There is an element of risk to the lender that is factored into the interest rate. Student loans are just a normal commercial contract with an additional stipulation related to bankruptcy, but other than that they are not any more subject to criminal penalties for nonpayment than a mortgage or a car loan.

Regardless of what Australian courts think or say, Australian banks are beholden to the US FATCA rules which has pretty steep penalties for foreign banks who skirt these rules. I don't know what type of penalties but it relates to how wire systems work and settling US dollars. If the government wants to make a bank squirm they block the bank's ability to do business in the US. This is a very serious situation especially considering the dollar is still the reserve currency.

They can complain and moan all they want, but the fact of the matter is what the US government wants the US government gets especially when it pertains to its vassal states. It's only a matter of time until debtor's prison becomes a thing in the US.

As a New Zealand, Ireland, and Oz's visa programs, a cursory glance at them it looks to me that you can only extend the work visa one year after it expires for a max of two years total. What do you plan to do once those two years are up? You're going to have to get an employer to sponsor you or worse marry someone to stay bringing you back to square one.

I don't buy the worst case scenario in terms of extreme measures being taken against debtors, if only for the simple reason that virtually every American is deep in the red and the US government will have trouble enough collecting money from the tens of millions who will inevitably default WITHIN the United States over the next decade or two to worry about going after the infinitesimal percent who go overseas to escape having to pay. This whole system relies on the exploited sheep being docile and compliant and suffering whatever indignities are foisted upon them by the gov. and corporate elites. Plus just think of the cost associated with trying to fight legal battles for wage garnishments in foreign countries. The juice will simply not be worth the squeeze from the gov's perspective.

The visa issues are a wholly separate matter. I was only discussing the issues around escaping from the arms of the US government's collection efforts, visa issues are agnostic of whether you're a debt fugitive or a location independent expat.

Post: #43

(01-20-2016 04:52 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Here's a grand solution, if you're in default for your government subsidized student loans you don't deserve the right to vote.

I think it's a bit more simple than that, if you default on your student loans, you can't borrow money, get a credit card, have a home loan, or a car loan. I have not looked into defaulting on student loans, I went to college when it was not as pricey as it is now.

Post: #44

(01-20-2016 10:16 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 09:53 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  [quote='Fast Eddie' pid='1196923' dateline='1453295761']
[quote='Dr. Howard' pid='1196911' dateline='1453294509']
[quote='zatara' pid='1196862' dateline='1453289135']

I've got a couple of American friends living in the UK avoiding student loans. It's not like being on the run, they both regularly visit the U.S. with no problems. It just means they can't work in the U.S.

In both of their cases, they're $150k+ in debt thanks to grad school. Adding on interest thats 5-10 years of their life their lifestyle would suffer massively paying that back. Even worse, the repayments hit you hardest in the years when you earn the least and want to maximise the fun you have with your money - your youth.

...

pires for a max of two years total. What do you plan to do once those two years are up? You're going to have to get an employer to sponsor you or worse marry someone to stay bringing you back to square one.

I don't buy the worst case scenario in terms of extreme measures being taken against debtors, if only for the simple reason that virtually every American is deep in the red and the US government will have trouble enough collecting money from the tens of millions who will inevitably default WITHIN the United States over the next decade or two to worry about going after the infinitesimal percent who go overseas to escape having to pay. This whole system relies on the exploited sheep being docile and compliant and suffering whatever indignities are foisted upon them by the gov. and corporate elites. Plus just think of the cost associated with trying to fight legal battles for wage garnishments in foreign countries. The juice will simply not be worth the squeeze from the gov's perspective.

The visa issues are a wholly separate matter. I was only discussing the issues around escaping from the arms of the US government's collection efforts, visa issues are agnostic of whether you're a debt fugitive or a location independent expat.

I agree with your perspective on Debt/debtors in general. The government is not going to chase someone around the world for private debt. Here is the difference though, this is government debt or at least government backed debt.

Like I said, FATCA has established the means for the US Government to reach into citizens bank accounts abroad. Do you really think its just going to stay limited in scope to tax debts?

I guarantee the next step will be expanding the FATCA channel to collect on child support and spousal support.

After that, definitely it will come after other government guaranteed loans.

Remember, even though individuals are in the red, the government is in the red also. What are they going to do first in terms of revenue? Cut welfare benefits and lose the votes of vast blocks of poor people or chase a scapegoat that no one will defend like fleeing student debt dodgers.

The student debt crisis is looming in america and its naive thinking to believe that the government will do nothing about collecting on it. It would be a popular platform for any politician (say that 3 times fast) to go on a witch hunt against "entitled college kids" they would have support from the poor who are envious of those with college degrees already and the old who have 'already paid their dues'

That long view of 'what ifs' would discourage me from a debt flight as making that choice to run fucks over any option of returning to the US again as a resident. There just isn't enough certainty over the state of the world and america 60 years in the future. Just a basic option of refusing to renew a passport for US citizens in x years student loan default would screw a person over for travel, work visa renewal or exiting the US again if having to return to manage the death, estate or illness of a sibling or parent.

But no one thinks of that do they? They're just like "good luck Mom and Dad if shit happens! I'm going on the run to avoid my student loans because I have no honor to actually pay for what I bought"

How about the reverse? What if some visa granting country decides to ban/deport all US citizens due to conflict. Then what do you do? You are forced to walk out on whatever wealth you have stashed in country X.

This whole fleeing the US to avoid student debt is as much a short sighted and irresponsible plan as getting a live in girlfriend to support you for 4 years while you go to school. You bang her raw, and get her pregnant but then decide one day to just up and leave. You then make the foolish assumption that she's not going to track you down for child support, if not domestic abuse and rape claims. That bitch is going to be after you for 20 years at least.

In this case you've stuck the government with your baby and they are going to be after you for life...if not your estate after you die.

At least with taxes, there is a statute of limitations on assessment and collection. There is none with student debt.

Post: #45

I owe about 100 grand at 7 percent. I can barely beat the interest rate if I pay 1/3 of my pre tax income. I hate to admit it but I've thought about running away, I too decided that I probably couldn't get away with it even if I did find work somewhere. I also thought about joining the military or some other public service job to get the debt forgiven.
There is a 25 year forgiveness on loans now and income based repayment options. Assuming those measures don't get repealed I can live pretty comfortably until the loan goes away some time in my 50's. Of course that means I can't get any houses or cars until that time, which sucks. The gov't covers the interest gap to prevent the loan from growing for the first 3 years you are on income based payments, after that the income based payments continue but the interest gap gets folded into what you owe and the thing starts growing. I have 2 years to double my income or I'm fucked.

If it comes to that I'll arrange something with my family to bail me out and reimburse them at a lower interest rate. I'm extremely blessed to even have that as an option.

Post: #46

(01-20-2016 09:09 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  No one is forced to take out student loans.

Take two classes a semester and get a full time job. You can graduate debt free by working two gigs and going to school. That way we won't have whiny little bitches.

Get s roommate or go back to your parents and save some money. If you're not a dumbfuck, then grants and scholarships should set you free. If you're poor then need based aid will get you there.

If you can't afford to roll in the big leagues, learn your limits and bust your ass off either working or studying. Not everyone should go to NYU.

I paid 20k off in loans in a year by doing extra shit on the side and not going out every weekend like a 'tard. Sill got laid.

Pretty close to the blueprint I used.

1. Picked a real major in a scientific field.
2. Went to a community college which was >>much<< cheaper than state colleges/state universities/private schools and got my Associates Degree from there, then transferred all but 3 credits to a state college. Saved a lot of $$$ doing that.
3. Lived at home for the entirety of my studies. Actually, for purposes of studying, I'm glad I did. Otherwise, my more monied friends always had a place for me to party/crash at. And I always helped around the house; no freeloading.
4. Drove a econobox car that I could service/fix myself.
5. Bought used text books, used "outdated" ones or loaners from the campus library for free.
6. Applied for every grant and scholarship I could.
7. Worked just enough so that I could float financially, but not cut into my study time.
8. Got an internship that paid me well and I got credits for.

I graduated debt free with no loans.

Post: #47

(01-20-2016 06:50 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  What if instead of fleeing after graduation you flee immediately upon taking the loan, without ever attending the college? Just grab your $200 000 and leave to have fun somewhere the moment you graduate high school?

They pay it out by semester, so you wouldn't get more than around 15-20k at a time.

Post: #48

Guys, the entire system is broken from top to bottom. The idea that you need to take out 100K in loans just to get a decent job is fucked up beyond all reason. For all of recorded history, no such scam has been in place.

I do not think anyone needs to pay back the loans. The schools should eat the debts of the students and be shut down. The schools wasted the money from student loans on total bullshit as well: new gyms, fancy statues, sports teams, diversity programs, etc. Why should anyone pay back on such nonsense? Let it die. The entire American society would be a better place. The education system needs to be redesigned from top to bottom, with an emphasis on technical skills instead of liberal arts faggotry. Women would be automatically discouraged out of these jobs because they aren't smart enough to do them.

My advice is to pay back your loans as slowly and little as possible. The USA will go broke before you do. Skimp by and either the USA will print mad cash to pay down their debts, in which case the value of your loans will be inflated away, or we go bankrupt and the dollar loses its value anyways.

I have not paid back more than 1% of my student loans using clever accounting, and I hope to God I do not need to pay much back to these scammers. Fuck them all, only suckers live as slaves.

http://www.returnofkings.com/8595/how-to...easy-steps

Post: #49

The US government spends over a hundred grand on K-12 education per student, so a college graduate bitching about loans is ridiculous.

Even assuming you did 4 years at a UC instead of a CSUMB here means at max you paid 64,000 in tuition, which in the long run isn't a big fucking deal. Pay your share

Post: #50

(01-20-2016 01:13 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Guys, the entire system is broken from top to bottom. The idea that you need to take out 100K in loans just to get a decent job is fucked up beyond all reason. For all of recorded history, no such scam has been in place.

I do not think anyone needs to pay back the loans. The schools should eat the debts of the students and be shut down. The schools wasted the money from student loans on total bullshit as well: new gyms, fancy statues, sports teams, diversity programs, etc. Why should anyone pay back on such nonsense? Let it die. The entire American society would be a better place. The education system needs to be redesigned from top to bottom, with an emphasis on technical skills instead of liberal arts faggotry. Women would be automatically discouraged out of these jobs because they aren't smart enough to do them.

My advice is to pay back your loans as slowly and little as possible. The USA will go broke before you do. Skimp by and either the USA will print mad cash to pay down their debts, in which case the value of your loans will be inflated away, or we go bankrupt and the dollar loses its value anyways.

I have not paid back more than 1% of my student loans using clever accounting, and I hope to God I do not need to pay much back to these scammers. Fuck them all, only suckers live as slaves.

http://www.returnofkings.com/8595/how-to...easy-steps

This is a legitimate solution vs. burying one's head in the sand. Good advice, especially the part about minimal compliance.

Once women get some sort of pussy pass forgiveness you want to have a clean record on your loan in case they disqualify those loans that are in default status at the time of the writeoff.