Post: #51

Perhaps it's my lack of experience, but honestly I don't think putting out on the first date is such a big deal as some of you make it to be. It might be just sex but it might be a deeper connection also.

Just like we all need to 'grow' in game, connections between two individuals also need to grow and develop. You can be crazy in love with someone for lets say the first 6-12 months, but the initial state of continuous excitement wears off at some point, period. There will be a time where it comes up to how (deep) you two connected.

That being said, it's not rare that you'll develop emotional feelings (oneitis even) during or after a fantastic first date, with or without bang. On rare occasions you might have had such a great time and you and her connected so well on an emotional level, that you'll be wondering if she's 'the one'.

Now lets say you had sex during that date so a bit of the intens feelings wear off (considering you've already collected 'the prize'). After some self reflection, alone time, and maybe even dating other girls, you just can't stop thinking obout her. Every other girl you meet or have been with is being compared to this chick. You conclude she's special to you. She sparks up something inside you and even when you're horny and have FWB's on speeddial, you just want her. Simply put, you had fun, had sex, barely know eachother but are already at the brink of giving up other girls for a girl you've met just once!

Now this might sound all emotional and quite frankly, it is. But that's how women are wired, women are far more emotional creatures than men. So in my honest opinion it's very well possible she might be great LTR material, even though she put out on the first date. For all you know she was so excited and overwhelmed by this connection, she was craving for you to 'want' her and tried to empower/trigger your 'want' emotion by treating you with a great bang.

Ofcourse this is no guarantee for a happily ever after future. But is there any when you had sex after 3 dates? For all I know she was able to restrain herself 2 dates from getting intimate with you, while '1st date sex girl' might have been so into you she just wanted you. Right then and there she wanted you and tried to lure you into her trap, never letting you go..



Disclaimer: this happend to me with a girl just after my LTR ended and I was looking for shit to distract me from the hurt. This girl wanted me BAD. Texting all the time, trying to get together every free moment she had. This went on a couple of months while I was dating other girls also. I wasn't planning on giving up my 'being single' life just yet, felt pressured, and ejected. I think she might have been great LTR material if I at that time was able to move on and commit, which obviously I wasn't.

EDIT: Peronally I think Hanks' story here is a great example. He seemed genuinely into this girl and even bummed nothing more came of it. Would he liked her less or changed his view considering an LTR if they had sex that first date? Hank, would you?

Post: #52

The problem with banging a woman on the first date is that it totally becomes all about sex from the get go. This has happened to me many times - even with women that I initially thought may be possible LTRs before I first met them.

It seems that all we do is bang for a couple of weeks and then it fizzles out, we never really make an effort to get to know each other as people. Contrast this with hanging out with that person for a couple of times before sex, at least you get to know them as people and learn if you even like them or not.

Many years ago I was all about LTRs and not about sleeping around – however, first date sex came so often I switched to just fucking around – it’s more fun!

I would never countenance LTR with a woman who gives it up straight away. That’s a big red flag – how many other guys has she done this with? How many other guys has she said, ”I don’t usually do this” to as they’re sliding their manhood into her?

As we’ve all said many times, you never know how things are with women. I’ve had fuck buddies come over to my place right after their dates are over so I can bang them. Of course, they make the guy they’re dating wait…

Post: #53

Disagree.

As much as I realize I'm not the absolute best player out there, I recognize when I've "wooed" the right girl at the right time. Last was a blonde, Eastern European au pair. Farm girl. Definitely LTR material. Dated for a few months before she moved back home. Seriously considered longer term.

Banged my ex-fiance on the first date, dated for 4 years, yet it ended in flames. Looking back I don't believe our having sex on the first night really had anything to do with it not having lasted either.

Still, it still can be used a measure, especially if you are new to the game. Depends on how good you are at judging character and weighing attributes against each other. It's certainly not a red flag for me, unless she's jumping my bones in the first hour of meeting.

That being said, the majority of my ONS/SNLs have definitely not been LTR material.

Post: #54

I don't know how it is in the west, but in my country if the girl bang on first date or even before marriage and the guy will think she's a slut and want to get out most of the time.

Most guys here demand their wives to be virgins though.

Post: #55

(01-12-2016 09:32 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Agree or disagree?

WIA

It's definitely a female display of low value to a man in gauging a woman's LTR capabilities. It does not mean that they are never LTR material however.

Post: #56

(01-12-2016 07:29 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  The problem with banging a woman on the first date is that it totally becomes all about sex from the get go.

This is an important statement.

I know if I bang a chick on the first date then it is certainly going to become the norm. We should basically be having sex every time we hang out from then on. If I don't get my nut every time I see her from then on out then it basically seems like a wasted "date."

If I meet a girl and sex does not happen the first few times we meet then it sets a different precedent and the chemistry and attraction is built a different way where sex becomes almost secondary.

Also I'd like to note: I have had more early-on respect for women who did not let me sleep with them right away.

Post: #57

If we are talking about a potential LTR here, the issue is not if you bang her on the first date, rather, the issue is how many times before has she been banged on a first date.

Post: #58

At this point it's almost normal for a girl to want to bang on the first date. However, if she asks me to fuck her in the butt on the first date after fucking her in the pussy for a bit, then I know she is going to be fun for one date but that is probably it, just too much mileage on her pussy that its so worn out that she requests anal on a first date.

Post: #59

(01-12-2016 04:39 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  @DF why?

Inexperience. Dropping the game too soon and becoming more invested than her. Not remaining a challenge and mystery.

But it's getting better.

Post: #60

I disagree on the basis that was stated earlier, I expect to get laid when I have a date.

What determines how she would be as a LTR depends on how she acts in the following months or years after that first night bang.

Does she act feminine, show loyalty and caring and have a genuine connection with you?

Does she take your lead and put your needs before hers?

Does she ultimately add or take away value from your life?

If she does that for years following that first night bang then I'm sure anyone else would consider that a successful LTR.

Post: #61

(01-12-2016 09:32 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Agree or disagree?

WIA

If LTR = finding a girl you connect with and enjoy banging that you'd like to keep around for a few months or even longer, I think you'd be nuts to kick her to the curb based only on the fact that she fucked you on the first night.

If LTR = investing in her, locking her down, and considering her the potential mother of your children, I think you'd be naive as fuck not to consider it a MASSIVE red flag, if not outright taking her completely out of the equation. It's hilariously easy to go through an entire date without revealing any of your actual personality so if a girl is fucking you based on one date's worth of evaluation, she, like most girls, is clearly just looking for a good time. Which you should give to her. In the form of a good dicking. Or many good dickings. Just not in the form of permanently tying yourself down to her or letting her raise your kids.

I'm in the minority and I know it's getting more and more unrealistic by the day but I'm holding out for a virgin for my "end-game" LTR. Obviously more difficult to find but without question optimal for child-raising and long-term pair-bonding.

Post: #62

In my experience with women over about 30, making a guy wait is almost always a play. Every time a women over 30 has tried to get me to wait, it is because she "used to be" a huge slut and is now too much of a "lady" for that sort of thing. This is a sure sign of hypergamy. If she "happens to meet" a 20 year old stud who presses her buttons, she will be glad to take it up the ass and gargle his mayonnaise within an hour. If you are over 30 though, forget it.

In my experience with women over 30, a sign she is genuine and not trying to (unsuccessfully) play me is that she has sex with me (over 40) quickly.

With women under 30, I think other factors are much more important and not having sex quickly could be fine.

Post: #63

@WIA what's your take on it?

Post: #64

(01-12-2016 11:06 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 07:29 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  The problem with banging a woman on the first date is that it totally becomes all about sex from the get go.

This is an important statement.

I know if I bang a chick on the first date then it is certainly going to become the norm. We should basically be having sex every time we hang out from then on. If I don't get my nut every time I see her from then on out then it basically seems like a wasted "date."

If I meet a girl and sex does not happen the first few times we meet then it sets a different precedent and the chemistry and attraction is built a different way where sex becomes almost secondary.

Also I'd like to note: I have had more early-on respect for women who did not let me sleep with them right away.

These two guys basically sum up my feelings. I don't definitively agree with the statement, but it's a telling factor in how the relationship will go, regardless of the chic (her hotness, her personality, her sluttiness, etc).

Theses two posts speak volumes. Not to sound too much like Redbook, but relationships are far more dynamic than simply her personality and sluttiness or your alphaness...much less than the simple factor of whether she sleeps with you the first night.

Post: #65

It's testament to any of the below:

- tight my game is
- how good looking I am
- situational/absolute status
- her hornyness/cycle

or any contributing factor to the lay.

You gotta accept women (especially Westernized ones) for who they are; it's in their nature and you can't hold it against them.

In this day and age, it doesn't take much for a woman to put out.

Post: #66

(01-13-2016 11:19 AM)Noir Wrote:  You gotta accept women (especially Westernized ones) for who they are; it's in their nature and you can't hold it against them.

In this day and age, it doesn't take much for a woman to put out.

This is certainly true. Most young women in our culture have been trained to believe that sex is simply part of the date and if her and a guy are attracted to each other then there is no reason it should not happen. The ease of having sex with a woman isn't supposed to cheapen it, at least thats what they'd like you to think.

Fact of the matter is, it doesn't change the assumption that if a girl puts out easy then it's likely she has/will with other men. Easy women are universally seen as being poor relationship material for a reason. It's biological as far as my reasoning sees it. It makes her seem like her loyalty and faithfulness are liable.

Like I said in my first post in this thread; it's all about the vibe and the manner of which the bang went down. If she was easy as cutting butter with a hot knife then I usually feel confident that she does this kind of thing all the time and other men will likely be able to get in her pants as well whether or not I end up dating her.

Post: #67

Agree. Not LTR material if it's the first night that we ever met.

If we had a lot of chemistry the night we met then bang on a first date, that's not an automatic disqualifier, but still not preferable for LTR material.

Girls should have self control to demonstrate that she has enough will power to resist sex with a hot guy even after one night of great chemistry.

I want to be confident that my LTR can resist temptation to make bad decisions, even when she's drinking and other guys as charming/sexy as me try to hit on her.

Post: #68

(01-13-2016 10:26 AM)XXL Wrote:  @WIA what's your take on it?

I stated it early. Means nothing.
I am an unrepentant game proponent.
Player never Puritan.

/thread-52948...pid1190137

I was thinking of a follow up question about whether you bang your "princess" in the ass? Just don't know how to phrase it exactly to make it divisive.

I think of that mentality like that of the Taliban, "icky and dirty " girls are strictly for procreation, but the Pashtun have other means of having fun. (Google it)

WIA

Post: #69

Just had to post this thought that came to me while trying to go to sleep:

Sex with an LTR girl should be icing on the cake, not the main course.

Post: #70

Banging on the first date isn't a big deal to me. Call me jaded, but you get to a point where you run the same plays on every date knowing in a few hours you'll be pounding her into the mattress making her tell you who's pussy it is while you pull her hair. I don't really believe in the whole good girls thing. All women will let you do unspeakable things to them, it's just a matter of how comfortable they feel.

Post: #71

(01-13-2016 05:13 PM)262 Wrote:  Just had to post this thought that came to me while trying to go to sleep:

Sex with an LTR girl should be icing on the cake, not the main course.

Agreed. Assuming your LTR is a good woman you should be respectful and never rub her nose in it but there's nothing wrong whatsoever with discrete side poon. I'm also a proponent of not tossing her to the curb and upgrading when she hits the wall; if she was loyal to you and the family in her prime she deserves the same treatment post-wall.

(01-13-2016 06:19 PM)Mujeriego Wrote:  Banging on the first date isn't a big deal to me. Call me jaded, but you get to a point where you run the same plays on every date knowing in a few hours you'll be pounding her into the mattress making her tell you who's pussy it is while you pull her hair. I don't really believe in the whole good girls thing. All women will let you do unspeakable things to them, it's just a matter of how comfortable they feel.

I don't believe in the "good girls" thing either. Even when banging a virginal girl, if your game is tight, you're alpha in her eyes, and you're always escalating, she will let you do twisted shit to her, same as any other girl. A couple of months ago I turned out a really cute virgin 7 from a super red-pill, good family and it didn't take long for her to beg me to fuck her in the ass, fuck her in a bathroom stall at the mall, and fuck her in a church courtyard in the middle of the night. All I'm saying is that if I'm PERMANENTLY LOCKING DOWN a bitch and allowing her to raise my kids, she has to be my slut exclusively. Not the slut of every alpha with tight game she happens to meet (or "connects with" on the first date )

Post: #72

(01-13-2016 08:22 PM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 05:13 PM)262 Wrote:  Just had to post this thought that came to me while trying to go to sleep:

Sex with an LTR girl should be icing on the cake, not the main course.

Agreed. Assuming your LTR is a good woman you should be respectful and never rub her nose in it but there's nothing wrong whatsoever with discrete side poon. I'm also a proponent of not tossing her to the curb and upgrading when she hits the wall; if she was loyal to you and the family in her prime she deserves the same treatment post-wall.

(01-13-2016 06:19 PM)Mujeriego Wrote:  Banging on the first date isn't a big deal to me. Call me jaded, but you get to a point where you run the same plays on every date knowing in a few hours you'll be pounding her into the mattress making her tell you who's pussy it is while you pull her hair. I don't really believe in the whole good girls thing. All women will let you do unspeakable things to them, it's just a matter of how comfortable they feel.

I don't believe in the "good girls" thing either. Even when banging a virginal girl, if your game is tight, you're alpha in her eyes, and you're always escalating, she will let you do twisted shit to her, same as any other girl. A couple of months ago I turned out a really cute virgin 7 from a super red-pill, good family and it didn't take long for her to beg me to fuck her in the ass, fuck her in a bathroom stall at the mall, and fuck her in a church courtyard in the middle of the night. All I'm saying is that if I'm PERMANENTLY LOCKING DOWN a bitch and allowing her to raise my kids, she has to be my slut exclusively. Not the slut of every alpha with tight game she happens to meet (or "connects with" on the first date )

Well then with that logic, there is absolutely no point of looking for an LTR in the first place. If even women from solid, conservative families can be so easily made sluts of, what's stopping her from doing it again with someone else while you're not around?

Post: #73

(01-13-2016 08:37 PM)rw95 Wrote:  Well then with that logic, there is absolutely no point of looking for an LTR in the first place. If even women from solid, conservative families can be so easily made sluts of, what's stopping her from doing it again with someone else while you're not around?

Not the right mindset.

Most virginal girls don't treat sex the same way as P&D fodder. They're invested in you. If your LTR game is solid, she's completely bought into your frame from the beginning, and you're meeting her emotional and sexual needs, chances are slim that a virginal girl that you've converted is gonna randomly start sucking strange cock. You gotta remember that these kinds of girls are still capable of strong pair-bonds, their femininity hasn't been chipped away at by the carousel yet.

Even with tight game, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that this is foolproof. I'm sure there are some girls that have gotten pumped and dumped a few times that have gone on to make great mothers and I'm sure there are some virginal girls that have gone on to destroy families but I'm a betting man and my money is always gonna go where I'm getting the best odds.

Post: #74

(01-13-2016 09:04 PM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 08:37 PM)rw95 Wrote:  Well then with that logic, there is absolutely no point of looking for an LTR in the first place. If even women from solid, conservative families can be so easily made sluts of, what's stopping her from doing it again with someone else while you're not around?

Not the right mindset.

Most virginal girls don't treat sex the same way as P&D fodder. They're invested in you. If your LTR game is solid, she's completely bought into your frame from the beginning, and you're meeting her emotional and sexual needs, chances are slim that a virginal girl that you've converted is gonna randomly start sucking strange cock. You gotta remember that these kinds of girls are still capable of strong pair-bonds, their femininity hasn't been chipped away at by the carousel yet.

Even with tight game, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that this is foolproof. I'm sure there are some girls that have gotten pumped and dumped a few times that have gone on to make great mothers and I'm sure there are some virginal girls that have gone on to destroy families but I'm a betting man and my money is always gonna go where I'm getting the best odds.

Perhaps you're right on your first point, in fact I'm positive you are right. But how many guys on this forum, and players in general, actually wind up marrying (or LTRing) that virgin they may have found? I'm sure it happens, but those stories are in the minority. In the majority of cases, they simply wind up becoming another notch, and a woman who had the chance of becoming a good wife and mother will have been started on the path to the cock carousel. If indeed AWALT, and any woman will give it up at any time to any man with tight game in a sexually permissive society such as ours, the notion of finding a woman to engage in marriage or an LTR with is rendered essentially a foolish chase. And this is coming from someone who endorses the concept of marriage as a necessary pillar of society (religiously, not legally).

Post: #75

I agree with the statement. As much as I'd like to think that my game is fire, I'm also a realist and know that I'm not the only player out there. A girl who comes over to my spot, having known me for only a few hours, not aware of any major details about me or my life, and lets me get her fully naked and have sex with her (especially raw dogging) is probably banging many different dudes and is not LTR material. Are there exceptions? Absolutely. There are exceptions to anything. But looking through the stories of failed relationships/marriages, I'm pretty sure there is a strong trend of sexual promiscuity early on in the relationship.

I'll readily admit that this makes me a hypocrite - I want sex the first night, but if a girl gives it up to me, she's basically got no chance to ever be my girlfriend. Linux noted this earlier, and it's true. It's a contradiction that I struggle with. Since I'm not really looking for an LTR right now, it isn't that important to me at the moment, but it will be in the coming years.