Post: #1

Agree or disagree?

WIA

Post: #2

Both.

There are no absolutes.

I know couples that eventually married (and have a happy, stable relationship) after they bumped uglies on the first night.

Conversely, I've had my fair share of SNL's where my gut tells me that there is no future beyond a purely sexual relationship.

In my opinion, the potential longevity of a relationship (not unlike assessing basic personality traits) can be gauged in the first few minutes of meeting someone, providing you're in tune with your instincts, have a reasonable level of social awareness, have a solid grounding in the type of relationship you want and aren't clouded by lust.

However, that's the hardest part isn't it, recognising the difference between blind lust and something more solid. In the early stages of a relationship; a seemingly great relationship, everything is literally perfect. To negotiate long term territory beyond the blissful beginning requires some deft game, and more importantly, the right chick*, lest that oxytocin haze dissipate leaving a confusing reality about the legitimacy of the relationship in its wake.

*which we can easily hamster away the "wrong chick" as being right, as we get swept up in her hotness/charm, forgiving "minor" indiscretions.

Post: #3

Maybe we had sex on the first date because I'm an amazing player and no woman can resist my charm.

Or maybe she never fucks on the first date, but she was smart enough to realize that we had a special connection and wise enough to not waste our time trying to make a pointless point.

Post: #4

Disagree, though it is a red flag for sure.

I would not 100% rule out dating a girl if I closed on the first date, though it would heavily depend on the vibe and how the close went down.

I'd prefer a girl to make me wait/work for it if I'm at all interested in keeping her around.

Post: #5

Disagree.

To be LTR material, a girl needs to:

A) be of high quality (attractive, kind, caring, loyal, etc)
B) be capable of genuine attraction towards a good man (i.e. feel repulsed by bad boys)

How fast she sleeps with you doesn't have much bearing on those factors.

Post: #6

(01-12-2016 09:48 AM)Suits Wrote:  Maybe we had sex on the first date because I'm an amazing player and no woman can resist my charm.

Or maybe she never fucks on the first date, but she was smart enough to realize that we had a special connection and wise enough to not waste our time trying to make a pointless point.

My game is fairly good, so I expect a first night bang.

Also can't fault a girl for having good taste.

WIA

Post: #7

Disagree

If a girl fucks me it's obvious that she wants me for some reason, be it charm, looks, status, money, the connection between us, or her plain old lust for the broom handle.

Then, if I want an LTR, it's my job to do the due diligence and determine what exactly she wants and how many other guys she wants it from.

Same night lay doesn't change this at all. I wouldn't even take it as a red flag

Post: #8

Disagree.

A lot of guys think just because a girl makes them wait for 8 dates to get the bang, that she's better LTR material than a girl they bang on the first date. WRONG. Quite the opposite. She is making YOU wait. Not the jacked ex-rugby player investment banker. Not a guy like WIA.

A girl spreading her legs for you the first night means her attraction to you is pure and genuine. Not based on any material, emotional or social value you offer her.

If you LTR her up, she'll be grateful and terrified of losing you since a guy who she is genuinely sexually attracted to offering his commitment is something very rare in a girl's world.

I've seen girls happily become girlfriends of guys they would never ever fuck in a club environment. Girls generally fuck up and date down. Guys fuck down and date up. If you bang her on the first date, in all likelihood you have more value than her. Which makes it easier to keep the bitch in check if you decide to date her long term.

Post: #9

^ "Girls generally fuck up and date down. Guys fuck down and date up."

That's one of the best quotes I've heard on relationship dynamics in a while.

Post: #10

(01-12-2016 10:01 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  She is making YOU wait. Not the jacked ex-rugby player investment banker.

(01-12-2016 10:01 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  A girl spreading her legs for you the first night means her attraction to you is pure and genuine. Not based on any material, emotional or social value you offer her.

You're saying that it's safe to assume that the hypothetical girl's attraction to the jacked ex-rugby player investment banker is in no way based on his material, emotional and/or social value?

Post: #11

(01-12-2016 09:50 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Disagree.

To be LTR material, a girl needs to:

A) be of high quality (attractive, kind, caring, loyal, etc)
B) be capable of genuine attraction towards a good man (i.e. feel repulsed by bad boys)

How fast she sleeps with you doesn't have much bearing on those factors.

One has to careful that they aren't at the receiving end of a master manipulator regarding these traits.

The recent BPD thread discusses the masquerade efforts of chicks that display seemingly genuine kindness, affection and loyalty - making you think you've found "the one", only to turn around at a later date and eat you alive as part of some kind of sadistic game.

Post: #12

(01-12-2016 10:07 AM)the Thing Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 10:01 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  She is making YOU wait. Not the jacked ex-rugby player investment banker.

(01-12-2016 10:01 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  A girl spreading her legs for you the first night means her attraction to you is pure and genuine. Not based on any material, emotional or social value you offer her.

You're saying that it's safe to assume that the hypothetical girl's attraction to the jacked ex-rugby player investment banker is in no way based on his material, emotional and/or social value?

It's based on all the above. But the key word is "offer". High value guys like that don't offer girls all those things in exchange for sex. Girls offer sex in exchange for that small chance of becoming his girlfriend. Genuine attraction.

This same girl will make the boring accountant wait 8 dates for sex because she wants a downpayment on her pussy before giving it up. Not genuine attraction.

Post: #13

There are no absolute laws on this (or for game in general), but I rule out any chick who gives it up that easily for anything more than a fuck buddy.

Any chick I've been serious with (~3 in my lifetime) have all had (reported) low notch counts and didn't give it up until at least the third date.

The sluts/throwaways/plates/whatevers that put out on the first date filled in the gaps of the above; they serve(d) their purpose.

Post: #14

(01-12-2016 10:15 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 10:07 AM)the Thing Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 10:01 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  She is making YOU wait. Not the jacked ex-rugby player investment banker.

(01-12-2016 10:01 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  A girl spreading her legs for you the first night means her attraction to you is pure and genuine. Not based on any material, emotional or social value you offer her.

You're saying that it's safe to assume that the hypothetical girl's attraction to the jacked ex-rugby player investment banker is in no way based on his material, emotional and/or social value?

It's based on all the above. But the key word is "offer". High value guys like that don't offer girls all those things in exchange for sex. Girls offer sex in exchange for that small chance of becoming his girlfriend. Genuine attraction.

This same girl will make the boring accountant wait 8 dates for sex because she wants a downpayment on her pussy before giving it up. Not genuine attraction.

That's right. My point was more about "genuine attraction" ie. does the girl in question want to pursue a LTR with the banker because of his SMV, or does she want him because she just wants to leech on his fame or fortune.

Post: #15

Tough to decide whether I agree or disagree. I feel like I need more life experience to really decide that.

Give it up on the first date? Instant gratification. Could give it up for someone else while in a LTR. Or marriage, in my case.

Don't give it up on the first date? Perhaps can stay loyal in a LTR. But how do you know whether she just made you wait while taking it up the ass on the side?

Post: #16

@CS

You'll never know. The virginal small town middle class girl is a false sense of security. Especially since few men would settle down with less than a 7.

WIA

Post: #17

None in my experience, I took a virginity on the first date once - what does that mean? Nothing, just gotta use your best judgment if she's worth your time or not. Frankly a girl who holds out for the sake of holding out sometimes have issues on her own, playing at being a reformed slut.

Post: #18

It depends! If I've known the girl for a while before hand (social circle) and then we have a date and a bang then LTR or mini LtR is possible.

But banging a stranger on a first date, maybe not, unless I like her a lot.

Post: #19

Irrelevant. If a girl likes me enough to fuck me the night I meet her that's cool with me. An LTR with her depends more on how much I like her more than anything.

Post: #20

My most successful relationships all began with an obvious sexual attraction on the first date with logistical reasons preventing us from going home together. The anticipation of seeing one another again and actually being able to have sex made the actual sex better, in my opinion, and being able to wait showed that we were into one another on a deeper basis than just sex (But of course sex is extremely important to myself and every guy).

I don't mind a SNL, either, but there's a huge chance it'll be a one and done by the time the morning comes.

Post: #21

I'm going to go against the grain and agree with the OP's statement in the thread title.

Assuming we want a girl who has control of her emotions (Girl Game?), she should hold out, and make sure you have more than Game, no matter how good it is. She should see that you have some Beta qualities to you, while your Alpha qualities got you the first date.

That being said, I'm not saying her not giving it up on the first date means she's LTR material. There's obviously more criteria than that.

I'm also not saying guys shouldn't try to make girls give it up on the first date. In fact, in my view, it's a good filter.

Post: #22

Worse is a girl who doesn't fuck you on the first date but then you find out later normally does fuck on the first date.

Post: #23

Agree. A lot of the times it means she's not even 2nd date material in my eyes. I enjoy her company and our brief time together and then we'll head our separate ways. If she's persistent then she'll get another round but I certainly won't be pursuing it.

If a girl fucks on the first date, this usually means if you date her, develop feelings, and eventually break up, she will be fucking another dude almost immediately to forget about you. This is something I've never been able to accept. My last ex-girlfriend and all her friends told me repeatedly that after we broke up she didn't even kiss another guy for over a year. I know it seems far fetched but in this particular circumstance I believe it. Although I didn't let that persuade me to start dating her again.

Call me an idealist, but I still think good girls who make guys earn them are still out there. And I think a girl who fucks on the first date just can't be trusted with a long term commitment.

Post: #24

Personally, my last 3 LTR's I didn't fuck on the first date.

My last few mini LTR's where the girl was cool and we had fun for awhile, I did fuck on the first date. I did notice they catch feelings real quick.

I used to think every single girl who fucks on the first date was just a slut, I was wrong. Met some pretty cool genuine girls that were decent.

YES it does raise some eyebrows if she's "that easy".

But hey if you got your game on lock and you're good looking, a woman will drop her panties for you.

But I'll cosign with WIA

Quote:My game is fairly good, so I expect a first night bang.

Also can't fault a girl for having good taste.

Post: #25

There are a lot of great posts on this forums, and funny, thoughtful opinions. West Indian Archie though, is skilled at posing interesting, provocative questions that get a lot of people involved in great discussions.

This is a next level social skill. Thanks Archie.