Post: #26

(12-19-2015 04:16 AM)Kaizen Wrote:  Ask her and make it your opener.

'Excuse me...This is random but are you married or in a serious relationship?'

You should get an honest answer

Proceed from there

Have you actually tried using this as an opener?

Post: #27

(12-19-2015 04:16 AM)Kaizen Wrote:  Ask her and make it your opener.

'Excuse me...This is random but are you married or in a serious relationship?'

You should get an honest answer

Proceed from there

Never tried that, but sounds awful to me. There is an instant 'wtf' moment with daygame, that can trigger a 'flight response' from girls. Unless there is instant raw attraction you are giving her an avenue to reject you, while still getting an 'attention boost' for her ego. There's zero intrigue or mystique to why you stopped them. At it's best it's just screening for DTF girls, but even then it's spammy as fuck. Interested to hear otherwise, but my gut tells me to avoid an opener like that like the plague.

Post: #28

^ have not tried it. Saw Steve Jabba do it in a video. Comes off great. Like anything else, it is how you say it.

It's effective as you find out the info you are looking for while showing interest.

I daygame a lot but have yet to use this specifically. If a certain situation seems to call for it, I will.

Post: #29

Steve Jabba is also a 6+ ft tall good-looking English guy. He certainly has Game, but YMMV when trying to imitate him.

Most guys are better off learning Game from guys like them, and especially guys with less inherent advantages than them.

Shoot, even Jabba's buddy Krauser (average-looking average-height English guy) says that a good chunk of good-looking guy Game is simply "escalate and don't fuck up" Game.

Put it this way: Jabba can afford to be that direct, especially in a big city, because most girls are going to think he's the winning genetic lottery ticket. The genetically average guy, on the other hand, is better served by conveying his value through charisma and such (unless he wants to put in a lot more approaches to find girls as DTF for him as they are for Jabba).

Edit: For me at least, I prefer a more traditional London-style daygame approach. It does use a little more time per approach, but if I was as direct as Jabba, I'd run out of targets before finding a girl that's DTF just for my average-at-best genetics.

Post: #30

^ OP is asking how to know if a girl is single specifically.

There's a reason I've never used it myself.

Post: #31

(12-18-2015 03:45 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  If you knew the number of girls that have given me their phone number even though they were "in a relationship", you would understand why I don't believe in dating anymore.

Getting a phone number doesn't mean anything, relationship or not. Girls give them out like it's nothing.

Post: #32

(12-18-2015 03:11 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  Here's the deal guys: I'm new to daygame, having run exclusively social circle game in the past. I've been approaching English women in Middlesbrough over the past 10 days and have encountered a problem whose scale I had hitherto underestimated - the enormously high percentage of desirable women who are already in some form of relationship. It seems that practically every woman I approach is already taken and it has really thrown a spanner in the works of my confidence to approach new sets.

Does anybody on here know of a reliable way in which you can get an idea of whether a woman is single and potentially interested in you prior to opening her? If I could find a reliable way of determining an IOI - say through the eye contact with accompanying body language - it would greatly improve my chances, I suspect. It would also be of use to other guys on this forum, too, of course.

For example, I saw one woman yesterday pass me who I noticed out of the corner of my eye checking me out and when I looked directly at her she started looking at the ground but also ran her hand through her hair as she did so. Would any of you guys have interpreted this as an IOI?

Welcome to day game. There's no way to tell. No magic ioi's or anything. Get Roosh's day bang and go with that approach. Sound like you are approaching on the street which is 10x harder than anywhere else.

Post: #33

Hey! Check out my thread on IKEA!

One of the things I mention is that if you see a young woman in IKEA shopping for furniture or household items and shit alone on a Sunday night, it's very likely that she doesn't have a live in boyfriend/husband and might not be in a serious relationship.

She goes on Sunday night because the day is free and she doesn't want to interfere with her party nights, and no Western woman in a serious relationship would suffer the indignity of shopping for clothes hangers, $6 frying pans, and other knickknacks without bringing the boyfriend along. You can spot the seriously non-single young women there easily enough: THEIR MAN IS BEING DRAGGED ALONG RIGHT BEHIND THEM.

Post: #34

(12-19-2015 04:16 AM)Kaizen Wrote:  Ask her and make it your opener.

'Excuse me...This is random but are you married or in a serious relationship?'

You should get an honest answer

Proceed from there

I have actually used the following "forced alternatives" question. Not as an opener, but shortly thereafter:

PT "Do you have a boyfriend/guy that you'd like to cheat on?"

Chic thinking hard "Uh..no..well..no I..." or "yes, but I, uh..."

PT "Well good. So anyway..." quickly interjected then subject changed to another subject) It's kind of a light / humorous way to introduce your intentions without it getting awkward and gets them thinking.

Post: #35

(12-19-2015 03:56 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 04:16 AM)Kaizen Wrote:  Ask her and make it your opener.

'Excuse me...This is random but are you married or in a serious relationship?'

You should get an honest answer

Proceed from there

I have actually used the following "forced alternatives" question. Not as an opener, but shortly thereafter:

PT "Do you have a boyfriend/guy that you'd like to cheat on?"

Chic thinking hard "Uh..no..well..no I..." or "yes, but I, uh..."

PT "Well good. So anyway..." quickly interjected then subject changed to another subject) It's kind of a light / humorous way to introduce your intentions without it getting awkward and gets them thinking.

Another high risk/high reward thing to say is " this is probably none of my business, but are you single?" or simply "so are you single?"

If she says "yes", game on.

Post: #36

Robreke, XPQ22, and Cobra really hammered it home on this one, covering all the ground. Just make the play. All that gear-turning beforehand has gotta be the most toxic element you can introduce into your game.

Post: #37

(12-18-2015 03:11 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  Here's the deal guys: I'm new to daygame, having run exclusively social circle game in the past. I've been [b]approaching English women in Middlesbrough over the past 10 days[/b] and have encountered a problem whose scale I had hitherto underestimated - the enormously high percentage of desirable women who are already in some form of relationship. It seems that practically every woman I approach is already taken and it has really thrown a spanner in the works of my confidence to approach new sets.

Does anybody on here know of a reliable way in which you can get an idea of whether a woman is single and potentially interested in you prior to opening her? If I could find a reliable way of determining an IOI - say through the eye contact with accompanying body language - it would greatly improve my chances, I suspect. It would also be of use to other guys on this forum, too, of course.

For example, I saw one woman yesterday pass me who I noticed out of the corner of my eye checking me out and when I looked directly at her she started looking at the ground but also ran her hand through her hair as she did so. Would any of you guys have interpreted this as an IOI?

Oh man. You've got so many things to point out in your post. I highlighted a bunch in bold.

My questions:
1. If you're new to daygame and are only 10 days in, why in the world do you think you'd get positive responses (as opposed to "I have a bf/I'm in a relationship of some sort") from anything but the vast minority of women?

2. No, it's called GAME. The only way to have a "reliable way" of discerning whether a woman is completely attracted to you is by ENGAGING her and putting your best foot forward by gaming her with the best of your ability. If you're new to game/daygame obviously you're nowhere close, so why are you looking for this?

3. Your example definitely seems like it could be an IOI but you would NEVER know because one IOI is not enough to be definitive proof a woman is into you. You will almost NEVER get completely overt interest unless you've got some seriously huge advantages going for you. We are very different from women in this way. If you're new to daygame why are you even looking for a magic bullet when you haven't even been at it for 2 weeks?

Post some full interactions in the approach thread, ask some people for advice, and then ACT on it by going out and getting more interactions and modifying your approach to be it's best.

Until then, a funny but probably not that innacurate anecdote would be Urkel going after women immediately after having read "The Game" and expecting to have anything but a tiny percentage of success.

Post: #38

(12-19-2015 08:21 PM)robreke Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 03:56 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 04:16 AM)Kaizen Wrote:  Ask her and make it your opener.

'Excuse me...This is random but are you married or in a serious relationship?'

You should get an honest answer

Proceed from there

I have actually used the following "forced alternatives" question. Not as an opener, but shortly thereafter:

PT "Do you have a boyfriend/guy that you'd like to cheat on?"

Chic thinking hard "Uh..no..well..no I..." or "yes, but I, uh..."

PT "Well good. So anyway..." quickly interjected then subject changed to another subject) It's kind of a light / humorous way to introduce your intentions without it getting awkward and gets them thinking.

Another high risk/high reward thing to say is " this is probably none of my business, but are you single?" or simply "so are you single?"

If she says "yes", game on.

OK, I'll try this out tomorrow - it should make for some interesting responses, if nothing else. Any ideas on what to say if she replies, "Yes, I'm single, why do you ask?".

Post: #39

(12-20-2015 04:24 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 08:21 PM)robreke Wrote:  Another high risk/high reward thing to say is " this is probably none of my business, but are you single?" or simply "so are you single?"

If she says "yes", game on.

OK, I'll try this out tomorrow - it should make for some interesting responses, if nothing else. Any ideas on what to say if she replies, "Yes, I'm single, why do you ask?".

So, what do you want to achieve with this? You might quickly filter the ones in a serious relationship, but you have to remember most girls are in some kind of relationship. Are you trying to use it as a buffer to avoid "I have a boyfriend" rejection? I don't mind running game on girls who are in relationship, I see it as part of the game and as an opportunity to sharpen my skills, and to see how far I can take it. As an anecdote, the girl I previously LTR'd for two years was in a (quite platonic) relationship at the time of the cold approach. Half a minute after she mentioned the boyfriend I asked her for a quick coffee and the chemistry was awesome. Few days later she broke up.

tl;dr harden your game on every girl, escalate to find out where you stand

Post: #40

(12-20-2015 05:45 PM)reino341 Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 04:24 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 08:21 PM)robreke Wrote:  Another high risk/high reward thing to say is " this is probably none of my business, but are you single?" or simply "so are you single?"

If she says "yes", game on.

OK, I'll try this out tomorrow - it should make for some interesting responses, if nothing else. Any ideas on what to say if she replies, "Yes, I'm single, why do you ask?".

So, what do you want to achieve with this? You might quickly filter the ones in a serious relationship, but you have to remember most girls are in some kind of relationship. Are you trying to use it as a buffer to avoid "I have a boyfriend" rejection? I don't mind running game on girls who are in relationship, I see it as part of the game and as an opportunity to sharpen my skills, and to see how far I can take it. As an anecdote, the girl I previously LTR'd for two years was in a (quite platonic) relationship at the time of the cold approach. Half a minute after she mentioned the boyfriend I asked her for a quick coffee and the chemistry was awesome. Few days later she broke up.

tl;dr harden your game on every girl, escalate to find out where you stand

With the opener, "Are you single?", what I'm looking to achieve is a direct opener that signals where I'm coming from right off the bat. It's not so much to avoid rejection - hell, that's all I've had with Anglo women up to now with daygame so I'm hardly dreading the next one - but rather to quickly and efficiently determine who's DTF. After that opener, any girl who is still hanging around talking with me - irrespective of where the conversation goes - is either going to be just a wacko, attention whoring or up for the real deal. So for me it's a way of finding out whether the deal is on and, if it is, I can then calibrate the encounter and escalate there and then and take it from there. It's designed to work on a - admittedly very small - subset of women who will respond to a ballsy approach and are intrigued enough to play along, since I'll already have injected an element of sexual tension from the get go. As I've been using elderly-like indirect openers thus far with nothing to show for it, I figure it can't harm to try another approach and see whether there's any improvement.

As for pressing ahead even if the girl is in a relationship, it's strange you mention that, since I opened a girl today in the hardware store and she was very receptive to my approach - lots of good eye contact, standing around to talk to me for quite a while in the pet food section even though I told her that I didn't have any pets, but when I asked her out and she said that she had a boyfriend I quickly but politely excused myself. I was thinking next time I'll just say something like, "Well, I won't tell him if you don't", with a raise of the eyebrows or some such thing.

Post: #41

(12-20-2015 05:49 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  As for the opener, "Are you single?", what I'm looking to achieve is a direct opener that signals where I'm coming from right off the bat. It's not so much to avoid rejection - hell, that's all I've had with Anglo women up to now with daygame so I'm hardly dreading the next one - but rather to quickly and efficiently determine who's DTF. After that opener, any girl who is still hanging around talking with me - irrespective of where the conversation goes - is either going to be just a wacko, attention whoring or up for the real deal. So for me it's a way of finding out whether the deal is on and, if it is, I can then calibrate the encounter and escalate there and then and take it from there. It's designed to work on a - admittedly very small - subset of women who will respond to a ballsy approach and are intrigued enough to play along.

I recommend checking out the London Daygame Model, they advocate a direct compliment as a part of the opener. Krauser in his Daygame Nitro, an intermediate book, takes a similar but more nuanced approach to constructing the compliment.

What do you think is more likely to make the pussy wet, "Are you a single?" or a compliment that she can feel is spontaneous and contains qualities she genuinely possesses?

Post: #42

^^^And also, showing that you care too much about her relationship status, scares off those girls that are open for an adventure or cheating. Just don't filter for that, or else you will be left with a tiny percentage of what you catch in your fishing net.

Post: #43

(12-20-2015 07:10 PM)topdog Wrote:  ^^^And also, showing that you care too much about her relationship status, scares off those girls that are open for an adventure or cheating. Just don't filter for that, or else you will be left with a tiny percentage of what you catch in your fishing net.

OK, sounds sage advice, point taken. I'm going to try going direct by stopping the girl and saying how cute I find her and make a compliment about how I like her style and then introduce myself and take things from there.

The only problem I've seen, though, with Krauser's London Daygame Model is that it's applied almost exclusively on Slavic women, who are naturally more feminine and receptive to men, not to mention respectful. I'll be interested - and no doubt amused - to see how this goes down with uptight and uppity English girls in Middlesbrough. It will be an education, if nothing else.

Post: #44

You can tell if a girl is married by looking at her ring finger on the left hand to see if it had a wedding band on it.

You probably don't want to bang a married girl because of the drama.

Loads of girls have boyfriends but are open to being gamed by other guys. You have to actually follow the interaction through as far as it will go.

Post: #45

(12-20-2015 04:24 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 08:21 PM)robreke Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 03:56 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 04:16 AM)Kaizen Wrote:  Ask her and make it your opener.

'Excuse me...This is random but are you married or in a serious relationship?'

You should get an honest answer

Proceed from there

I have actually used the following "forced alternatives" question. Not as an opener, but shortly thereafter:

PT "Do you have a boyfriend/guy that you'd like to cheat on?"

Chic thinking hard "Uh..no..well..no I..." or "yes, but I, uh..."

PT "Well good. So anyway..." quickly interjected then subject changed to another subject) It's kind of a light / humorous way to introduce your intentions without it getting awkward and gets them thinking.

Another high risk/high reward thing to say is " this is probably none of my business, but are you single?" or simply "so are you single?"

If she says "yes", game on.

OK, I'll try this out tomorrow - it should make for some interesting responses, if nothing else. Any ideas on what to say if she replies, "Yes, I'm single, why do you ask?".

She knows why you're asking that. Women aren't stupid.

So, if she says 'why do you ask' it's just a test, it's not as if she really doesn't know.

Whenever I've asked a girl this, they usually brighten up or at least look at me different because they know I'm attracted and at that point they're sizing me up.

If she says yes, assume she's attracted. If a girl is not attracted, she'll often lie and say that she's not single.

If she says she's single, at that point, it's 'don't fuck it up' game.

So, the answer to your question, is to confidently say something like " because you seem cool/ I think you're cute. I think it would be fun to get together sometime for a coffee or drink."

Either that, or ask her to join you for a coffee or drink right then and there.

Post: #46

(12-20-2015 05:49 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 05:45 PM)reino341 Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 04:24 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 08:21 PM)robreke Wrote:  Another high risk/high reward thing to say is " this is probably none of my business, but are you single?" or simply "so are you single?"

If she says "yes", game on.

OK, I'll try this out tomorrow - it should make for some interesting responses, if nothing else. Any ideas on what to say if she replies, "Yes, I'm single, why do you ask?".

So, what do you want to achieve with this? You might quickly filter the ones in a serious relationship, but you have to remember most girls are in some kind of relationship. Are you trying to use it as a buffer to avoid "I have a boyfriend" rejection? I don't mind running game on girls who are in relationship, I see it as part of the game and as an opportunity to sharpen my skills, and to see how far I can take it. As an anecdote, the girl I previously LTR'd for two years was in a (quite platonic) relationship at the time of the cold approach. Half a minute after she mentioned the boyfriend I asked her for a quick coffee and the chemistry was awesome. Few days later she broke up.

tl;dr harden your game on every girl, escalate to find out where you stand

With the opener, "Are you single?", what I'm looking to achieve is a direct opener that signals where I'm coming from right off the bat. It's not so much to avoid rejection - hell, that's all I've had with Anglo women up to now with daygame so I'm hardly dreading the next one - but rather to quickly and efficiently determine who's DTF. After that opener, any girl who is still hanging around talking with me - irrespective of where the conversation goes - is either going to be just a wacko, attention whoring or up for the real deal. So for me it's a way of finding out whether the deal is on and, if it is, I can then calibrate the encounter and escalate there and then and take it from there. It's designed to work on a - admittedly very small - subset of women who will respond to a ballsy approach and are intrigued enough to play along, since I'll already have injected an element of sexual tension from the get go. As I've been using elderly-like indirect openers thus far with nothing to show for it, I figure it can't harm to try another approach and see whether there's any improvement.

As for pressing ahead even if the girl is in a relationship, it's strange you mention that, since I opened a girl today in the hardware store and she was very receptive to my approach - lots of good eye contact, standing around to talk to me for quite a while in the pet food section even though I told her that I didn't have any pets, but when I asked her out and she said that she had a boyfriend I quickly but politely excused myself. I was thinking next time I'll just say something like, "Well, I won't tell him if you don't", with a raise of the eyebrows or some such thing.

I've never been a fan of very direct as it eliminates the chic's 'plausible deniability' aspect. IMO it's pretty akin to the 'apocalyptic open' which is great if you're solely trolling for sloots that are DTF. That's great if you're willing to approach like 100 chics per bang. I personally don't like those odds...but that's just me

Another 'forced alternative' question (I actually saw/heard a celebrity use this one) is;

"So are you married or dating?"

If the chic didn't say " married" he'd press it like a motherfucker. Of course the rules change when you're a celebrity but there's something to be said about that strategy

Post: #47

^That seems to be the issue that I often grapple with, hence my overall adherence to a more indirect platform.

Post: #48

I find that in some contexts showing intent is just the most congruent way to open. I can't imagine stopping a girl on the street and running Roosh game on her, like being intrigued by her purse.

Whereas at the book store asking about a book girl is holding is an easy and low risk way to open, but I'd still make the conversation personal nearly right away to match for chemistry and so that she knows what's up.

Going totally indirect, like asking for directions, should only be used as training wheels to get over social anxiety. First and foremost because opening like that will trigger the "Helping a stranger" script in the girls head and breaking out of that frame is immensely difficult, not to mention creepy if she can tell that you asking for directions was just a ploy to get her to stop. Your intent not matching the actions == creepy.

Quote:Creepiness is something many newer guys run into, because they find themselves in the situation of wanting something from people but lacking the social wherewithal to honestly express their wants without being too forward or awkward – so they try to conceal them.

http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-not-be-creepy-guy

Post: #49

Doesn't matter,

Women are not loyal, if she is attracted she will emotionally do things, i.e. impulsive reaction.

All attractive women have some dude in the Bull pin or has full house of orbiters.

Thats just the way things are. I never met a hot girl that was truly single. The only time I met a girl like that, is when she just move to a new city.

Post: #50

I approached a set in Marks & Spencer's today after spotting a cute 7, nerdy-looking, brunette with ponytail, probably in her mid-20s. Anyway, as usual I didn't have a script ready to hand, so just went full situational mode and starting commenting on the good selection of the roast potato range, proceeding with the Roosh ramble eventually onto other topics. Now, usually, the vast majority of women will exchange a word or two and move quickly away out of social awkwardness, but this girl stuck around even though she didn't ask many questions. After some circuitous small-talk about the general merits of home-cooked meals, I proceed to ask her about her plans for Christmas, play a game of guessing her job (I thought she was a librarian but she was a bank clerk) and eventually get to the topic of what she likes to do in her free time. So she mentions that she likes to travel and says that she recently visited India. When I ask, "And who did you go with?", she says - predictably enough - "my boyfriend". Unfazed by this, I proceed to game on and eventually get around to asking her out for a coffee sometime. She then replies, "Well, I do have a boyfriend" to which I reply, "I won't tell him if you don't" with a raised eyebrow. She then puts her head down and says, "Sorry, no, I can't" and slowly walks away.

Now, the puzzling thing about this encounter was that she didn't make any attempt to move away from me prior to asking her out, even though she must have known that I wanted to fuck her in earnest. She had over 5 minutes to do so, yet she didn't take any aversive action whatsoever. In fact, there were some quite pregnant pauses between our conversation while I wasn't sure what to say, yet she remained wedded to the spot and often smiling at me as she did so in a rather incongruous sort of way that I find it hard to explain. It was awkward, but in a way that I haven't quite experiened before, i.e. she wasn't averse to my very obvious sexual advances but simply couldn't find it in herself to go the whole way and sign up for a date; that's the very impression that I took away from this encounter, anyway. But maybe I'm wholly wrong in thinking this? I don't honestly know for sure and this fact greatly irks me.

It's as if her body-language was saying one thing - her remaining unnecessarily long talking with me as the conversation became ever more personal but her final words about her boyfriend were saying another. But I really can't help but wonder what the deal with her boyfriend was: Was she already tiring of him? Had they just had a blazing row? Was she already looking for the next branch to swing onto? I could swear that she was at least flattered by my approach, but, alas it was simply not to be.

Another possibility is that women like this secretly wish their boyfriend, who they had probably met via plain vanilla social circle, had approached them in such a brazen way in public and are impressed by the boldness of the manouevre, fulfilling as it does a common fantasy that women harbour about being swept off their feet when they least expect it. So, if this were to be the case, I could see how it might provide a reason for them momentarily to rethink their current boyfriend, especially given how women are so much more influenced by the predominant emotions that such encounters engender than they are by the facts in the cold light of day.

I'd be interested to hear the opinion of you guys on here. I'm desperate to get laid and am putting in the numbers of approaches using situational store game, but don't quite know what to do in such situtions. Maybe I should have tried to create more sexual tension prior to asking her out, e.g. by making some complimentary references to her appearance? I don't know, but it's incredibly frustrating all the same, given how attractive she was.

Over and out.