I wouldn't presume Islam itself can get secularized. But individuals within it surely can.

(11-30-2015 12:53 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 07:30 AM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  The problem is not "immigration". The problem is mass immigration by hordes of people that do not exactly wish to integrate within the current system but rather have a subversive effect within the system. I am hoping for the day that some Eurocrat enlightened mind understands that Islam is not compatible with the West in a multicultural scenario until it gets SECULARIZED.

Problem is Islam can't be secularized ever and will never be compatible with the west.

(11-30-2015 07:20 AM)FilipSRB Wrote:  Since my post from the first page was quoted again here, I want to explain my thought process and the source of my optimism. That story is basically the story of the last 2 and a half years of my life and my transformation since discovering this part of the web.

When I came here I had extremely liberal political views and was an atheist. I now call myself an Orthodox Christian again. Obviously this transformation did not happen overnight, but I will tell you what was the final nail in the coffin for my atheistic beliefs. The more I opened my eyes to the horrors of the plan that the elites are obviously pushing and the more I learned about their depravity and of their useful idiots, I realized that I was staring at the abyss that could not be explained by pure science or biology. I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that these people are motivated by more then simple lust for money and power. Their sins are so many that I no longer doubt about the nature of Man and of the world as described in Christian beliefs. If I am looking at the machinations of powers that can only be described as the powers of Satan, it does not fill me with dread or fear, because that can only mean that there is a God, and that I am fighting a good fight, and that His Will will prevail.

So you were an atheist and now you believe in god and satan because bad things are happening in the world and think an entity that personifies all evil is responsible for it, is that it? I think the complete insanity we're witnessing can very well be explained by human stupidity without having to resort to supernatural entities.

(11-29-2015 07:23 PM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO29xfBJ6KQ

Marine Le Pen at the European parliament, what a murder! A woman with "balls"!

This is an important statement. This is Mme. Le Pen talking about a Eurasian solution, an alliance between Russia and the European Union. There is a lot going on between the lines here, and much of it has to do with NATO and the US.

Correct, richler. And if Europe goes right one must consider that. Putin has aimed for that in years. He has approached Germany with a mutual security agreement of sorts a few years ago.

There is no way in hell the US will allow a European-Russian alliance. Too much power, too much influence and way too many people with similar culture to many US citizens.

With a US vs Russia scenario you have the advantage of an alien culture, a different way of thinking but if Europeans get in on the mix what are you going to tell the majority of your people who share ancestry? The Europeans are the bad guys too?

I agree it is unlikely. But not impossible. Le Pen and FN defend a Pan-European association of states, including Russia and Switzerland , besides the rest of the EU. And from what I recall, Frau Merkel did not say "No" to Putin, she said "they'd think about it". It's absolutely NOT to be ruled out. And if such a thing happened the US would surely have to abandon it's anti-Russia agenda, that's pretty much a given. In a sane world, USA and Russia should cooperate.

Nobody is about to end NATO and make large pronouncements about the great new 1,000 year embrace or whatever. But it could start small and shadowy, deep in the texts of gas agreements and implied by certain trade relationships. There could be some pushback against the Atlanticist consensus. This would be standard-issue populism in many EU countries; Le Pen actually is a departure from the mainstream, as are other nationalist parties.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/3...0520151130

EU and Turkey reach a deal: The turks will supposedly stop migrants, money given by the EU will increase their standard of living in Turkey and hopefully persuade them to stay there. There's also some agreements regarding visas and Turkish EU membership talks renewal (nah, probably just smoke and mirrors in this case).

Well, it does look "something" is being done. Whatever it is.

Turkey has to recognize Greek Cyprus. That's pretty lulzy

(11-30-2015 06:37 PM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/3...0520151130

EU and Turkey reach a deal: The turks will supposedly stop migrants, money given by the EU will increase their standard of living in Turkey and hopefully persuade them to stay there. There's also some agreements regarding visas and Turkish EU membership talks renewal (nah, probably just smoke and mirrors in this case).

Well, it does look "something" is being done. Whatever it is.

Here is what will happen instead:

Migrants will not want to go to Turkey because it is already predominantly muslim, the aim is to invade Europe, so the flow of migrants or "refugees" will not slow down.

The "3 billion euros" will instead be used on their army, to buy weapons and to make weapon shipments to ISIS members who have already infiltrated Europe.

Visa fee travel will be used for Turks to migrate to the EU and either continue to populate the ideology of Islam or to continue to put more strain on the welfare system: http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/183720...greenfield

This deal is literally, the final nail in the coffin of Europe, if and when this goes through it will fast track the destruction of Europe from maybe a decade to as little as 1-3 years.

Following is satirical edit:

(11-30-2015 07:05 PM)NewMeta Wrote:  Here is what will happen instead:

Visa free travel will be used for ISIS NUTS POSING AS Turks WITH FAKE TURK PASSPORTS to migrate to the EU and either continue to populate the ideology of Islam or to continue to MURDER AND BOMB put more strain on the welfare system: http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/183720...greenfield

This deal is literally, the final nail in the coffin of Europe, if and when this goes through it will fast track the destruction of Europe from maybe a decade to as little as 1-3 years.

Fixed it for you. Once the Turkish border is open, ISIS immigration will be unlimited and visa free-- all they need is a fake Turkish passport.

"Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain."

I have quite a few doubts regarding that. Not to mention the Turkish desire to move to Europe is not as it once was.

Not to mention 3 billion euros is a ridiculous to arm an army like the turkish one, too, Turkey is not some poor third world country that needs to cut deals with the EU to strenghten it's army. Immigration by visa free travel doesn't seem very likely and that article is mostly BS quite frankly.

The turks in Germany have done pretty much no subversive action I can remember. Not to mention the big turkish wave of immigration is not recent at all. It goes back to the 60's and 70's as "guest workers". Many italians, spaniards, serbs, greeks, portuguese also went to Germany in those decades.

In short, even though one must be wary of the turkish state, the turks themselves do not strike me as such a terrible thing in terms of what muslims are concerned.

The Future of Europe:

Visegrád_Group

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visegr%C3%A1d_Group

Quote:The Visegrad Group, also called the Visegrad Four, or V4 is an alliance of four Central European states – Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovakia – for the purposes of furthering their European integration as well as advancing their military, economic and energy cooperation with one another.[1] The Group's name in the languages of the four countries is Visegrádská čtyřka or Visegrádská skupina (Czech); Visegrádi Együttműködés or Visegrádi négyek (Hungarian); Grupa Wyszehradzka (Polish); and Vyšehradská skupina or Vyšehradská štvorka (Slovak). It used to be sometimes referred to as the Visegrád Triangle, since it was an alliance of three states at the beginning – the term is not valid now, but appears sometimes even after all the years since the dissolution of Czechoslovakia in 1993.

The Group originated in a summit meeting of the heads of state or government of Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Poland held in the Hungarian castle town of Visegrád[2] on 15 February 1991 (not to be confused with Vyšehrad, a castle in Prague, the capital city of the Czech Republic, or with the town of Višegrad in Bosnia and Herzegovina).

Meanwhile, in Sweden...

14,000 Refugees Due For Deportation From Sweden Have Vanished: "We Simply Do Not Know Where They Are"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-29...where-they

Sweden is full, but no one can be deported? I wonder if this is the point where liberals realize the train is not stopping because they've cut the emergency brakes?

(11-30-2015 11:25 PM)Samseau Wrote:  The Future of Europe:

Visegrád_Group

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visegr%C3%A1d_Group

Quote:The Visegrad Group, also called the Visegrad Four, or V4 is an alliance of four Central European states – Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovakia – for the purposes of furthering their European integration as well as advancing their military, economic and energy cooperation with one another.[1] The Group's name in the languages of the four countries is Visegrádská čtyřka or Visegrádská skupina (Czech); Visegrádi Együttműködés or Visegrádi négyek (Hungarian); Grupa Wyszehradzka (Polish); and Vyšehradská skupina or Vyšehradská štvorka (Slovak). It used to be sometimes referred to as the Visegrád Triangle, since it was an alliance of three states at the beginning – the term is not valid now, but appears sometimes even after all the years since the dissolution of Czechoslovakia in 1993.

The Group originated in a summit meeting of the heads of state or government of Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Poland held in the Hungarian castle town of Visegrád[2] on 15 February 1991 (not to be confused with Vyšehrad, a castle in Prague, the capital city of the Czech Republic, or with the town of Višegrad in Bosnia and Herzegovina).

The idea of a central European power to counter both Germany and Russia has been around for a while. Consequently, the abovementioned powers have worked tirelessly to prevent that from happening. If you go by James Michener's Poland, the nations of Lithuania, Ukraine, and Poland were pretty close to forming a pact or alliance ahead of WW1 but it fell over for historical reasons. When Poland's on its own it generally gets walked over by either Germany or Russia on the way to fight Russia or Germany respectively, but during the period of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth it was one of the strongest military powers in Europe for the time.

(11-30-2015 07:23 PM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  I have quite a few doubts regarding that. Not to mention the Turkish desire to move to Europe is not as it once was.
.....

In short, even though one must be wary of the turkish state, the turks themselves do not strike me as such a terrible thing in terms of what muslims are concerned.

The Turks may be harmless, but they provide perfect camouflage for ISIS immigrants moving amongst them into Western Europe.

Imagine an immigration queue with 500 people, mostly from Turkey, but 7 of them are ISIS assholes with Turk passports. They look too similar to Turks to do any extra scrutiny . You can't pick them out.

If those 7 are in a queue from Syria, you know to take a closer look. And if they get a forged Turikish passport and get in among the Turks entering Western Europe? At least now there's an additional level of checking both Turks and fake Turks have to go through.

Merckel wants to spread propaganda in Africa to attract more asylum seekers:

(12-01-2015 03:41 AM)Roosh Wrote:  Merckel wants to spread propaganda in Africa to attract more asylum seekers:

Exactly where the fuck in the Balkans and/or the arse end of Africa are they going to find a bunch of native engineers sufficiently trained and competent to do work in Germany?

^^
I've followed this thread and the "crisis" from the very beginning. Yet somehow I'm still surprised when another insane decree is issued from western european leaders, or rather their managers.

And it seems as if the general public is completely incapable of recognizing a bad deal when it's presented to them. Posing questions about the feasibility of accepting such numbers of "migrants" proves to be an excericise in fultility.

"Refugees are in trouble. We must bring them into our country."

"Do we have enough housing/jobs/welfare/ to support this?"

"Germany is 1st world, we can afford to help those in need."

"So who will be paying for this?"

"The Government through taxes."

"So what number of "refugees" is enough? What if all of Africa decides that they're '"refugees?"

"So you're saying we should just leave them in a warzone?"


Now, that's a pretty typical example of exchanges I've had with these types. Even without mentioning the giant elephant in the room that is Islam and the culture that's being imported, the most unbiased, pragmatic arguement falls on deaf ears. It's frustrating to realize that they see us the crazy ones.

In their mind, we're the bad guys.

I can only imagine that this is exactly how a parent feels, when they spot their child about to do something really stupid. Some kids, no matter how many times they're told, just have to touch the red hot element on the stove.

Except now they're fucking with the propane tank and lighting a match.

----------------------------------------

(12-01-2015 05:23 AM)Dan Woolf Wrote:  The soulmates have been on a raping spree recently in Finland, even though it's already pretty cold, and women are covered from head to toe. Just wait until Spring, when women swap their winter clothes to miniskirts and revealing tops. One of the cases shows quite clearly just how intelligent these poor asylum seekers are (translation from /pol/):

Even once every last white pussy in Europe has been forcibly filled with circumcised cock from the deepest heart of darkness, women will still primarily fret about middle class white males in college having drunk sex.

(12-01-2015 07:05 AM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 05:23 AM)Dan Woolf Wrote:  The soulmates have been on a raping spree recently in Finland, even though it's already pretty cold, and women are covered from head to toe. Just wait until Spring, when women swap their winter clothes to miniskirts and revealing tops. One of the cases shows quite clearly just how intelligent these poor asylum seekers are (translation from /pol/):

Even once every last white pussy in Europe has been forcibly filled with circumcised cock from the deepest heart of darkness, women will still primarily fret about middle class white males in college having drunk sex.

Well, you know, white privilege!

IKE, let me put this very clearly.

They do not require camouflage of any kind to return to Europe.
Many of them are native europeans and they can come and go as they please, as did some of the Paris shooters. This deal probably won't change much in that regard. The doors were wide open much before this "migrant crisis". And THAT was the problem. Not the migrant crisis per se.

(11-30-2015 11:59 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:23 PM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  I have quite a few doubts regarding that. Not to mention the Turkish desire to move to Europe is not as it once was.
.....

In short, even though one must be wary of the turkish state, the turks themselves do not strike me as such a terrible thing in terms of what muslims are concerned.

The Turks may be harmless, but they provide perfect camouflage for ISIS immigrants moving amongst them into Western Europe.

Imagine an immigration queue with 500 people, mostly from Turkey, but 7 of them are ISIS assholes with Turk passports. They look too similar to Turks to do any extra scrutiny . You can't pick them out.

If those 7 are in a queue from Syria, you know to take a closer look. And if they get a forged Turikish passport and get in among the Turks entering Western Europe? At least now there's an additional level of checking both Turks and fake Turks have to go through.

(12-01-2015 05:21 AM)Yurtley Wrote:  "Refugees are in trouble. We must bring them into our country."

"Do we have enough housing/jobs/welfare/ to support this?"

"Germany is 1st world, we can afford to help those in need."

"So who will be paying for this?"

"The Government through taxes."

"So what number of "refugees" is enough? What if all of Africa decides that they're '"refugees?"

"So you're saying we should just leave them in a warzone?"

That has been pretty much the boilerplate script, spot on mate. I think of myself to be pretty good in the debate department but you reach the point at which you realize that you're facing a proverbial wall of reason. It's important to understand that the new generation of Western Europeans and Germans in particular have been saturated with leftist ideology since birth. The Germans consider themselves to be strictly secular people but just like the Swedes they have gradually been indoctrinated by Marxist dogma over the past three decades - up to the point now where it has become their new 'Ersatzreligion'. [it's a bit tough to translate - I would use 'substitute religion' but the German word offers a better connotation IMO]

Their entire mental thought process has been wired to be in line with a leftist ideology and the current crisis is producing mental stress which is referred to as cognitive dissonance. In addition they are probably dealing with a host of other cognitive/behavioral biases which affects their ability to objectively analyze the situation and as a result act in their own long term interest.

Overconfidence Bias - demonstrating undeserved faith or confidence in one's judgment, to a higher degree than the judgment's objective accuracy warrants.

Regret Aversion - avoiding an action for fear of making a poor choice.

Availability Bias - giving a greater weight to easily recalled or available or more recent information over information that is less recallable/available or harder to understand.

Confirmation Bias - seeking out, overvaluing or misinterpreting information that confirms prior beliefs and ignoring contradictory information.

Conservatism Bias - maintaining prior views or forecasts by inadequately incorporating new information. This causes individuals to overweight initial beliefs and under-react to new information.

Decision Fatigue - deteriorating quality in decision made after making a series of (bad) decisions. Results in inadequate consideration of information and rushed judgment.

Framing Bias - arriving at a different decision based on how the options are worded.

Herding Bias - choosing the same side based on majority.

Heuristics - simple rules used in forming judgments to make decisions consisting of 'mental shortcuts' that focus on certain aspects of a decision and ignoring others.

Illusion of Control Bias - believing one can control and influence outcomes that one actually has no control over (see Sweden).

Representation Bias - classifying new information based on past experiences and classifications; especially using those classifications even if the new information does not necessarily fit.

Self Control Bias - failing to act in pursuit of long-term goals because of lack of discipline, fear, or laziness. Short term concern interferes with the achievement of long term objectives.

Sunk Cost Effect - The tendency to treat an investment that has already been committed or spent as more valuable than an investment that may be spent or acquired.

Status Quo Bias - doing nothing or maintaining a previous decision with instead a change should be made. I think that one is also related to the sunk cost effect.

False Consensus - A person tends to overestimate the extent to which their beliefs or opinions are typical of those of others.

Value Attribution - imbuing someone or something with certain qualities based on perceived value, rather than objective data [Brafman 2008] - example: Islam is a religion of peace.

Should I go on? ;-)

So this may give you an idea of the level of mental fuckery that the average German is dealing with. On top of all they also deal with a significant amount of peer pressure - even if they disagree with the status quo internally they are most likely following the path of least resistance, which is to simply follow the party line and keep their mouth shut. The Germans are unfortunately the world champions of civil obedience and this cultural predisposition is bound to shoot them in the foot for the second time in a century.

(12-01-2015 05:10 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 03:41 AM)Roosh Wrote:  Merckel wants to spread propaganda in Africa to attract more asylum seekers:

Exactly where the fuck in the Balkans and/or the arse end of Africa are they going to find a bunch of native engineers sufficiently trained and competent to do work in Germany?

In all fairness, Croatian, Bosnian and Serbian IT, electrical and engineering guys are highly reputed and most wouldn't have trouble with working in a German factory or other establishment. The only thing stopping them from working in Germany are quotas and an incredible amount of bureaucracy (which illegal immigrants of course don't have to go through). Germany only admits unskilled scum and actively rejects professionals from civilized countries.

http://www.dagen.no/Nyheter/symbolbruk/K...UDI-276091
http://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/norge/2...rne-kommer

The cross has to go before the asylum seekers come. It is important for Norway to stay neutral and not offend Muslims with Christians symbols.

The Norwegian Missionary Society (NMS) operates several Christian camp sites, which they want to rent to UDI Government. UDI Government says yes please, but on one condition:
All Christians symbols must be removed from buildings and doors. All Christian paintings must also be removed. It important we treat them with tolerance, respect, love & its important not to offend Muslims says UDI. The Secular democratic government of Norway must be value-neutral.


NORWAY, YES!

(12-01-2015 08:17 AM)iop890 Wrote:  http://www.dagen.no/Nyheter/symbolbruk/K...UDI-276091
http://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/norge/2...rne-kommer

The cross has to go before the asylum seekers come. It is important for Norway to stay neutral and not offend Muslims with Christians symbols.

The Norwegian Missionary Society (NMS) operates several Christian camp sites, which they want to rent to UDI Government. UDI Government says yes please, but on one condition:
All Christians symbols must be removed from buildings and doors. All Christian paintings must also be removed. It important we treat them with tolerance, respect, love & its important not to offend Muslims says UDI. The Secular democratic government of Norway must be value-neutral.


NORWAY, YES!

Due to backlash they removed this requirement. Thank God.

:UPDATE, Nov 30 at 8.17pm: The Norwegian Directorate of Immigration (UDI) announced via press release on Monday afternoon that it is dropping its requirement that private organizations that house refugees be "religion neutral".

"We will not require that those who run overnight offers for us remove religious symbols after all," UDI wrote.

http://www.thelocal.no/20151130/norway-r...s-refugees