(10-31-2015 11:46 AM)Akwesi Wrote:  Wow. I can't take you seriously anymore. The fact is that one European country translates more books in a year than all of Arab civilization in one millennium, you can't get even wrap your head around it so you actually imagine that the QUALITY of books translated into Arabic is soooo much higher and that I'm the one with a bias. Cognitive dissonance and projection, and one of the dumbest arguments I've heard in a while. Do you think there is even ONE of these books by Greek philosophers that has not also been translated into Spanish, or for that matter English, French, and German? Or that there have not been dozens of sophisticated commentaries written on each of those texts in every major European language that far surpass anything produced by Muslims?

Read up on al-Ghazzali's "Incoherence of Philosophers" and its impact on the Muslim world.

You don't get it. My point was that a significant portion of the Greek body of knowledge was preserved and came to be rediscovered in the West during the Renaissance through Arab translations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmissi...k_Classics

Arab logicians had inherited Greek ideas after their invasion of southern portions of the Byzantine Empire. Their translations and commentaries on these ideas worked their way through the Arab West into Spain and Sicily, which became important centers for this transmission of ideas. This work of translation from Islamic culture, though largely unplanned and disorganized, constituted one of the greatest transmissions of ideas in history.

Quote:I live in a city with a pretty high proportion of moslems and an extremely low rape rate, so my observed, rational reality just doesn't corroborate the hype and alarmism I read on here on this subject.

Quote:I'll be waiting for your statistics proving otherwise that control for the quality of the immigrants entering the country. I'm not holding my breath.

I'm still waiting. And still not holding my breath.

Quote:I haven't read the Koran, but I have learned history in some of the best schools in France and N. America

>hasn't read the holy book of the religion he speaks about
>has studied humanities in France

Good luck making anyone take you seriously from now on.

Quote:You don't get it. My point was that a significant portion of the Greek body of knowledge was preserved and came to be rediscovered in the West during the Renaissance through Arab translations.

Great. Muslims managed to preserve some books instead of burning them. The peak in the intellectual achievements of mankind obviously.

Go and listen to what Muslim Arab intellectuals have to say about your so-called achievements of the Muslim world:

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-50253...pid1134440

Germans Face “Destruction Of Genetic Heritage" As Village Of 102 Braces To Be Overrun By Refugees



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-31...n-refugees

Quote:NINE NEW MIGRANTS TO SCOTLAND FOR EVERY BABY BORN SAYS ONS, LIKELY TO BE HIGHER

New migrants to Scotland are set to outstrip the number of babies born within the country by nine to one over the next ten years, according to new figures from the Office of National Statistics (ONS). Overall, the UK’s population is expected to grow by nearly 10 million over the next 25 years, with the majority of new arrivals settling in England. However, the estimates are based on figures recorded before the migrant crisis, and are therefore likely to be a gross underestimate.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/10/...ly-higher/

(10-31-2015 11:59 AM)MTLer Wrote:  

(10-31-2015 11:46 AM)Akwesi Wrote:  Wow. I can't take you seriously anymore. The fact is that one European country translates more books in a year than all of Arab civilization in one millennium, you can't get even wrap your head around it so you actually imagine that the QUALITY of books translated into Arabic is soooo much higher and that I'm the one with a bias. Cognitive dissonance and projection, and one of the dumbest arguments I've heard in a while. Do you think there is even ONE of these books by Greek philosophers that has not also been translated into Spanish, or for that matter English, French, and German? Or that there have not been dozens of sophisticated commentaries written on each of those texts in every major European language that far surpass anything produced by Muslims?

Read up on al-Ghazzali's "Incoherence of Philosophers" and its impact on the Muslim world.

You don't get it. My point was that a significant portion of the Greek body of knowledge was preserved and came to be rediscovered in the West during the Renaissance through Arab translations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmissi...k_Classics

Arab logicians had inherited Greek ideas after their invasion of southern portions of the Byzantine Empire. Their translations and commentaries on these ideas worked their way through the Arab West into Spain and Sicily, which became important centers for this transmission of ideas. This work of translation from Islamic culture, though largely unplanned and disorganized, constituted one of the greatest transmissions of ideas in history.

Again, you are the one not getting it. If you actually bothered to look into al-Ghazzali and what happened to Muslim engagement with science and philosophy 800-900 years ago - with its impact clearly lasting until this very day - you would realize that this history has absolutely no bearing on today's world.

It is common knowledge that in science, both the Romans, medieval Christians, and the Muslims could do little more than tinker with the Greek heritage. And yes, the work of some Muslims helped keep that heritage alive. But once again, all of that was roughly a millennium ago and has fuck all to do with the savage hordes invading Europe today.

Christian Migrants Kicked Out of Asylum Fortresses - Claim Deluded Antifa was applauding Jihad Songs

Quote:MIGRANTS SING JIHADIST SONGS AT REFUGEE CENTER – IGNORANT GERMAN VOLUNTEERS APPLAUD

It’s in the air, broadcast of 14 October 2015. The Iraqi and Syrian Christians were isolated in special reception centers after being continually harassed. One of Iraqi Christians tells France 5: “At our previous center, volunteers were sitting listening to music, the Arabs sang jihadi songs and the German volunteers clapped their hands without understanding.”

The image sums up the situation: the Arabs install Islamism, leftists not understanding what is happening rejoice in living together that exists only in their fantasy world. Carnage to follow.

http://www.infowars.com/migrants-sing-ji...aud-video/

(10-31-2015 12:04 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Go and listen to what Muslim Arab intellectuals have to say about your so-called achievements of the Muslim world:

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-50253...pid1134440

Zel, both of these videos were produced by MEMRI, which is, literally, a propaganda arm of Israel. It was founded in 1998 by Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in the Israel Defense Forces (Intelligence Branch). And yes, I'll grant you that they (and others like them) have done a great job of portraying marginal theological retards, useful idiots and opportunists (most often women) like Hirsy Ali or Irshad Manji as legit spokesmen and representative of islam, or in the case of people like Manji, as legitimate organic reformers.

http://www.rense.com/general77/norm.htm

...MEMRI appears to view the Arab world as a malevolent, mind-numbing monsters' ball, populated almost exclusively by fanatics, freaks and fundamentalists.

Every story that could possibly make Middle Eastern people look deranged, hateful or diabolical gets translated; anything that could make them look informed, talented or admirable is ignored.

(10-30-2015 11:45 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Quote:"And now ... there is an even bigger threat that the quotas could become a permanent legal measure, with those arriving automatically distributed, and we do not accept that."

That's what other politicians have said also. You agree to 5% of 124.000, then you get 5% of 1 million until eternity. That's why every country has to vote far right.

___________________________

Here another former Muslim turned Christian who criticizes naive "integration romanticism":

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/a...al-an.html


No wonder her cousin wanted to marry her.

Quote:This woman takes on the German Islam head-on Her family threatened Sabatina James to death because they gave up Islam. In the book "Sharia in Germany," she settles - also with "naive optimism integration" policy. An encounter.

+ left her family and the religion as she was about to be married off to her cousin - I guess it did not appeal to her to have potentially retarded progeny and continue that idiotic custom

+ she needs bodyguards around her most of the time or lives in monasteries

Quote:It is important to address abuses in the real existing Islam, rather than to dream of a reformed Islam.

That is what is being sold by Merkel and the media - they claim that all newcomers will simply become secular Muslims and sharia itself is not problematic and is something extreme.

The media in the article is claiming that critics like her are generalizing things with Islam. She claims rather that it's the opposite - Western media and politicians are underestimating the dangers and think that only some kind of nebulous extremists are thinking like that. The truth of the matter is that it's an integral part of the belief. In my opinion many Muslims turn out to be great people despite Islam and not because of Islam.

+ She states clearly that German politics indulges in self-destructive consensus with Muslim organizations - for example with NGOs that let Turkey create the school curriculum in Germany in Muslim schools
+ She says that it's actually "shocking ignorance"
+ Turkey regularly discriminates Christianity, so why is that state given any freedom whatsoever to promote Islam in Germany?
+ Also she criticizes that the more extremist Muslim Brotherhood and their NGOs are treated as some kind of well-respected representatives in Germany speaking for all Muslims
+ Also she says clearly that if something failed with tens of thousands as with the Lebanese migrants in the 1990s who now control wide areas of German drug trade, then how shall this work with millions?
+ She also criticizes so-called Muslim "reformers" since they do not criticize Mohammed himself and the inherent violence in Islam/Quran. No reformer dares doing that, so there is no hope of any reform until this is addressed.
+ She is right claiming that Christian organizations and churches need more fighting spirit than compassion, because sharia is clearly anti-Christian and no romantic coffee-house-diplomacy will ever let them change their way

____


Oh - and here look at that Greek traitor claiming that he is proud of Merkel's refugee politics. I think he takes revenge on her, though he betrayed his people already, so who cares what he thinks?

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article148...Stolz.html

Why don't you like varoufakis?

Quote:Why don't you like varoufakis?

He's the Greek Obama, he shoved the globalist agenda on his country better than mainstream-looking politicians could have. He's basically controlled opposition.

(10-31-2015 12:02 PM)johnfortunebg Wrote:  

Quote:I live in a city with a pretty high proportion of moslems and an extremely low rape rate, so my observed, rational reality just doesn't corroborate the hype and alarmism I read on here on this subject.

Quote:I'll be waiting for your statistics proving otherwise that control for the quality of the immigrants entering the country. I'm not holding my breath.

I'm still waiting. And still not holding my breath.

I actually think the N. American model of selective immigration should be used in Europe. You can for example take mostly educated/middle class Syrians (of which there are hundreds of thousands), and leave the ones who are less likely to integrate in the refugee networks already set up in Turkey or Lebanon.

(10-31-2015 12:28 PM)MTLer Wrote:  Zel, both of these videos were produced by MEMRI, which is, literally, a propaganda arm of Israel. It was founded in 1998 by Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in the Israel Defense Forces (Intelligence Branch). And yes, I'll grant you that they have done a great job of portraying marginal theological retards, useful idiots and opportunists (most often women) like Hirsy Ali or Irshad Manji as legit spokesmen and representative of islam, or in the case of people like Manji, as legitimate organic reformers.

Yeah - I know who MEMRI is, but I rather think that that those men are the sane voices and not useful idiots.

Legitimate voices of ISLAM and exact followers of sharia can be found in Saudi Arabia, among the mullahs of Iran and in the Aluh-Akbar crowd in the Islamic State.

You speak of reforms as if that can come about when the other side prefers to cut your head off. Reforming Islam is like a lesson in futility.

You can come back in 10 years and see how wonderful Germany is after your loving peaceful brothers have created another Arab-spring shithole out of the once strongest nation in Europe.

Islam should be banned for the sake of humanity. If you want to reform it, then so be it. Burn the Quran and take the books of Rumi and Kahlil Gibran, compile it into the New Quran. At least then the new Islam will be based on saints and not psychopathic mass-murderers. That will reform the faith.

The other way is secularism, but with that approach you still are left with that bloody book and religion that festers within a country and secular Muslim leaders have to fight against it non-stop, because someone takes honor killings, child marriage and rape of infidels to heart.

And maybe it could be possible to reform Islam, or secularize it, but guess what - it takes very little to radicalize it again since the basis of the religion is negative and radical.

I won't respond to you anymore. Either you are a troll or you are simply brainwashed like all the White apologists out there that the poor poor Muslims had to suffer so much from the White superpowers in the 19th century (after they had killed Christians and destroyed entire cultures for centuries before - almost destroying the rise of modern civilization if they had won in Vienna). I rather think that you are a well-meaning Muslim who thinks that Islam can actually be peaceful and modern. I am sorry - you are an idealist like the integration romantics who distribute stuffed bears to crowds of hostile Arab men.

And again - Muslims are people like everyone else, it's not their fault that they have been born into a primitive death-cult from the Middle Ages.

(10-31-2015 12:43 PM)MTLer Wrote:  You can for example take mostly educated/middle class Syrians (of which there are hundreds of thousands), and leave the ones who are less likely to integrate in the refugee networks already set up in Turkey or Lebanon.

This could be done. But it won't happen that way, as we are already seeing. It's open slather. And what would be the point anyway? Europe doesn't need to be enriched by even the better Mohammedans. Taking the good ones will only guarantee that their homelands remain medieval shitholes, in fact regressing even further.

(10-31-2015 01:08 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

(10-31-2015 12:43 PM)MTLer Wrote:  You can for example take mostly educated/middle class Syrians (of which there are hundreds of thousands), and leave the ones who are less likely to integrate in the refugee networks already set up in Turkey or Lebanon.

This could be done. But it won't happen that way, as we are already seeing. It's open slather. And what would be the point anyway? Europe doesn't need to be enriched by even the better Mohammedans. Taking the good ones will only guarantee that their homelands remain medieval shitholes, in fact regressing even further.

Also - Europe doesn't need anyone job-wise. The young don't even have sufficient work for them - regardless of education. So even if you take the best of the best, then it would not benefit the Europeans. Great - instead of 300 locals applying for a job at Barclays you would have 300 of them and 100 extra from the Middle East. How is that going to help Europe?

Forget that crap spouted by politicians and Muslim clerics about the demographic disaster. There is a technological unemployment under way that will eliminate most jobs. And the only other reason why we "need" to grow is usury and we certainly should abolish that too.

A guy who is of Balkan origin but grew up in Sweden has made a couple of videos about the insanity. Been looking through his channel some pretty good material in there.





Guy has a blog too. Here's an article where he talks about why he is able to speak so freely despite all the blow back he gets for expressing the views he does. Pretty RP stuff:

https://acidmuncher.wordpress.com/2015/1...-yourself/

"If you don’t want to be a sheep, then kill your need for validation. Stop looking outwards for affirmation and start looking inwards instead. Learn how to enjoy being alone and you’ll stop thinking that the most important thing in life is getting along with everyone. If you enjoy your own company you won’t be desperately addicted to the company of others, and not giving a shit about what they think will be far easier."

(10-31-2015 11:59 AM)MTLer Wrote:  

(10-31-2015 11:46 AM)Akwesi Wrote:  Wow. I can't take you seriously anymore. The fact is that one European country translates more books in a year than all of Arab civilization in one millennium, you can't get even wrap your head around it so you actually imagine that the QUALITY of books translated into Arabic is soooo much higher and that I'm the one with a bias. Cognitive dissonance and projection, and one of the dumbest arguments I've heard in a while. Do you think there is even ONE of these books by Greek philosophers that has not also been translated into Spanish, or for that matter English, French, and German? Or that there have not been dozens of sophisticated commentaries written on each of those texts in every major European language that far surpass anything produced by Muslims?

Read up on al-Ghazzali's "Incoherence of Philosophers" and its impact on the Muslim world.

You don't get it. My point was that a significant portion of the Greek body of knowledge was preserved and came to be rediscovered in the West during the Renaissance through Arab translations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmissi...k_Classics

Arab logicians had inherited Greek ideas after their invasion of southern portions of the Byzantine Empire. Their translations and commentaries on these ideas worked their way through the Arab West into Spain and Sicily, which became important centers for this transmission of ideas. This work of translation from Islamic culture, though largely unplanned and disorganized, constituted one of the greatest transmissions of ideas in history.

This is mostly bullshit.

The first surge of Byzantine knowledge (i.e. Greek and Roman) was transmitted to Europe first with the fourth crusade, when Italians and Frenchmen took insane amounts of wealth (including books) from Constantinople to Europe.

The second, and more major transmission of knowledge came after the fall of Constantinople. The scholars there fled to Northern Italy, and started that thing called the "Renaissance."

Islam was basically nothing more than an obstacle in the way of truth and progress, and God made sure to render them impotent. The incidental knowledge gained from conquering the Moors was trivial at best and would have been found anyways from the Italians.

Also after the Spanish got rid of their Islamic infestation, they went on to be the most powerful country in the world for 100 years. Getting rid of Islam really does a country good.

I found this list showing the last names of the employees of the Swedish Immigration Board. Lol.

   

(10-31-2015 12:43 PM)MTLer Wrote:  I actually think the N. American model of selective immigration should be used in Europe. You can for example take mostly educated/middle class Syrians (of which there are hundreds of thousands), and leave the ones who are less likely to integrate in the refugee networks already set up in Turkey or Lebanon.

Just because North America has an immigration bureaucracy that makes it quite difficult and expensive to legally immigrate doesn't mean it is "selective". Most people get here by a fucking lottery, unless they cross over the border in which case it's even less selective.

(10-31-2015 02:53 PM)Troll King Wrote:  I found this list showing the last names of the employees of the Swedish Immigration Board. Lol.

Bunch of Irishmen eh?

(10-31-2015 02:39 PM)Samseau Wrote:  This is mostly bullshit.

The first surge of Byzantine knowledge (i.e. Greek and Roman) was transmitted to Europe first with the fourth crusade, when Italians and Frenchmen took insane amounts of wealth (including books) from Constantinople to Europe.

The second, and more major transmission of knowledge came after the fall of Constantinople. The scholars there fled to Northern Italy, and started that thing called the "Renaissance."

Islam was basically nothing more than an obstacle in the way of truth and progress, and God made sure to render them impotent. The incidental knowledge gained from conquering the Moors was trivial at best and would have been found anyways from the Italians.

Also after the Spanish got rid of their Islamic infestation, they went on to be the most powerful country in the world for 100 years. Getting rid of Islam really does a country good.

A lot of revisionism here. The Crusaders sacked Constantinople in 1204 and looted and massacred their way through the city. Not one of Western Europe's finest moments to say the least. They weren't interested in books, they actually destroyed the Library.

A couple of good works on the subject:

The House of Wisdom: How the Arabs Transformed Western Civilization by Jonathan Lyons

http://www.amazon.com/House-Wisdom-Trans...bc?ie=UTF8

For centuries following the fall of Rome, Western Europe was a benighted backwater, a world of subsistence farming, minimal literacy, and violent conflict. Meanwhile Arab culture was thriving, dazzling those Europeans fortunate enough to visit cities like Baghdad or Antioch. There, philosophers, mathematicians, and astronomers were steadily advancing the frontiers of knowledge, as well as keeping alive the works of Plato and Aristotle. When the best libraries in Europe held several dozen books, Baghdad's great library, The House of Wisdom, housed four hundred thousand. Jonathan Lyons shows just how much "Western" ideas owe to the Golden Age of Arab civilization.

Even while their countrymen waged bloody Crusades against Muslims, a handful of intrepid Christian scholars, hungry for knowledge, traveled East and returned with priceless jewels of science, medicine, and philosophy that laid the foundation for the Renaissance. In this brilliant, evocative book Jonathan Lyons reveals the story of how Europe drank from the well of Muslim learning.


The House of Wisdom: How Arabic Science Saved Ancient Knowledge and Gave Us the Renaissance by Jim Alkhalili

http://www.amazon.com/The-House-Wisdom-K...JFTBWD66JR

(10-31-2015 02:53 PM)Troll King Wrote:  I found this list showing the last names of the employees of the Swedish Immigration Board. Lol.

You've got a partial list of a few dozen people out of an alphabetical list of nearly 6,200 employees made from the tail ends. There aren't going to be a lot of native Swedish surnames starting with "AB" or "Z", but there are going to be pages of Andersons and Backstroms further down that list just below the cutoff. This is kind of cool as a funny meme, but most people looking at this will actually think that the staff of that agency was mostly made up of moslems and Yugoslavs...

(10-31-2015 08:07 PM)MTLer Wrote:  A lot of revisionism here. The Crusaders sacked Constantinople in 1204 and looted and massacred their way through the city. Not one of Western Europe's finest moments to say the least. They weren't interested in books, they actually destroyed the Library.

A couple of good works on the subject:

The House of Wisdom: How the Arabs Transformed Western Civilization by Jonathan Lyons

http://www.amazon.com/House-Wisdom-Trans...bc?ie=UTF8

For centuries following the fall of Rome, Western Europe was a benighted backwater, a world of subsistence farming, minimal literacy, and violent conflict. Meanwhile Arab culture was thriving, dazzling those Europeans fortunate enough to visit cities like Baghdad or Antioch. There, philosophers, mathematicians, and astronomers were steadily advancing the frontiers of knowledge, as well as keeping alive the works of Plato and Aristotle. When the best libraries in Europe held several dozen books, Baghdad's great library, The House of Wisdom, housed four hundred thousand. Jonathan Lyons shows just how much "Western" ideas owe to the Golden Age of Arab civilization.

Even while their countrymen waged bloody Crusades against Muslims, a handful of intrepid Christian scholars, hungry for knowledge, traveled East and returned with priceless jewels of science, medicine, and philosophy that laid the foundation for the Renaissance. In this brilliant, evocative book Jonathan Lyons reveals the story of how Europe drank from the well of Muslim learning.

This is exaclty the real historical revisionism. Europe was backwards back then - no doubt about it. And that is why a united Arab force under the banner of a madman's religious doctrine was ever so successful. Some leaders were more or less enlightened for sure.

But the crusades were mostly defensive maneuvers after hundreds of campaigns and wars waged by the Muslim forces:




What were those hundreds of battles of Muslims against Christians? Inquisitive sorties and peaceful negotiations?

The crusades were a pittance compared to the terrors that Islam waged upon the classical and then Christian world. After each of those battles there were a ton of slaves, beheadings, slaughter etc.

No one denies that the crusades were similar, but the Jihad was about 100 times worse, because it went on non-stop. Only their own degeneration stopped them and later on the ever greater development of the Christian world - obviously something that the Islamic state was not capable of.

You can spread your bullshit mainstream lies to the Obama crowd. They believe everything - clock boy was a genius and the peaceful Muslim world was terribly invaded by those awful crusades. Let us forget the centuries of Jihad, because in the end Western powers created a civilization that lets the sheiks live in splendor and shit on escorts.

Keep in mind that I am not blaming the caliphates or the Ottoman empire for doing that. It is what successful empire builders do, but don't cloak that crap as some kind of wonderful thing and how greatly the world has benefitted from the destruction of Constantinople and how wonderful it was to serve as a slave down south.

(10-31-2015 08:17 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  The crusades were a pittance compared to the terrors that Islam waged upon the classical and then Christian world.

That's right. The crusades were arguably a defensive maneuver.

To put things in yet another perspective, the crusades lasted 200 years and had a death toll of somewhere between 1 and 2 million, spread both between christians and muslims.

For comparison, the siege of Badhdad by the Monguls in 1258 lasted 2 weeks. In that time, between 1-2 million were killed - in less than 2 weeks, nearly all of them the inhabitants of Baghdad. Keep in mind this was before modern warfare, so that death toll is even more impressive. I do not think that place has ever recovered.

(10-31-2015 11:04 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Islam is a poison of the mind - educated enclaves in Canada which were partly selected for skills and aptitude and NAMALT arguments don't prove anything.

You should better go and study your religion in detail and also take a good hard look at what is happening in those wonderful countries like Afghanistan (children regularly used as sex toys) or Saudi Arabia (30% drug addicted youth up to 18, ton of homosexual activity due to repressed normal human sexuality).

Homosexuality is rampant in countries where Christianity is dominant. And by the looks of it the next wave will be that of incest. So would you say that Christianity encourages such behavior?

(10-31-2015 11:55 PM)flightofdeath Wrote:  Homosexuality is rampant in countries where Christianity is dominant. And by the looks of it the next wave will be that of incest. So would you say that Christianity encourages such behavior?

Is homosexuality rampant, or is it just tolerated? Muslim countries like Pakistan are the largest consumers of gay online porn.

http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2...n-pakistan

(10-31-2015 11:55 PM)flightofdeath Wrote:  

(10-31-2015 11:04 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Islam is a poison of the mind - educated enclaves in Canada which were partly selected for skills and aptitude and NAMALT arguments don't prove anything.

You should better go and study your religion in detail and also take a good hard look at what is happening in those wonderful countries like Afghanistan (children regularly used as sex toys) or Saudi Arabia (30% drug addicted youth up to 18, ton of homosexual activity due to repressed normal human sexuality).

Homosexuality is rampant in countries where Christianity is dominant. And by the looks of it the next wave will be that of incest. So would you say that Christianity encourages such behavior?

Want to bet that zoophilia top 10 practice list will be exclusively muslim and african countries?