Post: #4101

(11-01-2015 11:23 PM)TornadoByProxy Wrote:  Going strong,
How is it justified that they are not even incarcerated? How is there no outrage, at least locally? Is Franch really that far into a 1984 state?

It happened in Belgium, in this precise case, but anyway, we had some similar cases in France: earlier on the thread, I posted about a sub-saharan migrant sexually assaulting, during the same day: the female director of his refugee-center, a 14 year old teen, then he gets arrested, and is freed right away, and then comes back... to rape the vice-director!

People do not react because main stream media hide the facts, but still, people get to know some truth through internet, and as a result, the Right will win almost all the seats in the next "regionales" elections. So, people do start to seriously get angry, and will react by intelligently voting for the Right...

Post: #4102

(11-01-2015 11:28 PM)flightofdeath Wrote:  

(11-01-2015 02:58 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  FightofDeath - you are obviously a Muslim who even picked a name that has death-cult Jihadi undertones.

You defend honor killings as "crimes of passion".

LOL! Yes, I am a Muslim but my handle has nothing to do with Islam. It's actually something that came to my mind back when I was reading Harry Potter in my youth, and now instead of creating a new one I just use this. It's a translation of Voldemort.

Quote:The individuals doing it don't see it as wrong, but as regrettable since their daughter obviously did not leave them any choice.

I don't think there is a place for you here if you totally deny the actual Muslim undertones or justifications in the Quran of honor killings.

The Christians don't fear criticizing their church, priests, the Vatican, the pope and even the bible. It's only Muslims who get their mental panties in a bunch whenever anyone hints to the fact that their political war-doctrine is the farthest thing away from a religion of peace.

As for honor killings, there is no place for it in true Islam. Yes, Muslims do it, doesn't mean the religion tells them to do it. Whatever rationale they use for justifying it via their religion, they are utterly wrong. They are merely following what seems right in their heart at the time of committing such an act. This happens because Muslims have stopped consulting their religious scholars. The righteous ones. What people do is read the Quran themselves, and conjure up interpretations of it that suit their lifestyles the most. Completely ignoring the people who have actually spent years studying the science of Hadith and Islamic jurisprudence.
Whatever verses you think are justifying honor killings they are not. If any of these people have the backing of some religious leader, he is leading them astray.

I have no problem criticizing Muslims. Whatever you say about them I know them to be several times worse. I won't even say that not all Muslims are like that or whatever bullshit Muslims in the West spout. 99% of the Muslims are pretty much that. What I was saying was that the Muslims' deeds should not be attributed to Islam at all. There is a lot of misunderstanding about that.

Protip: arguing the No True Scotsman fallacy doesn't work any more effectively for Islam than it does Christianity (or Judaism for that matter).

Post: #4103

(11-01-2015 11:47 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Protip: arguing the No True Scotsman fallacy doesn't work any more effectively for Islam than it does Christianity (or Judaism for that matter).

Not a fallacy. Rather a reality.

Post: #4104

(11-02-2015 12:17 AM)flightofdeath Wrote:  

(11-01-2015 11:47 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Protip: arguing the No True Scotsman fallacy doesn't work any more effectively for Islam than it does Christianity (or Judaism for that matter).

Not a fallacy. Rather a reality.

You misunderstand. The No True Scotsman fallacy is a debating fallacy. It is an attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing").

That is, you can't say these practices are 'not true Islam' by suggesting 'no true Muslim would do such a thing', which in effect is what you just said.

Quite the contrary, per your own admission that 99% of Muslims are 'pretty much that', the inference appears quite available that these practices and interpretations are the chosen and preferred ones across Islam as a whole.

It would be easier if you just accepted that Islam basically needs its own equivalent of the Christian Reformation: a wholesale coring out, schism, and re-evaluation of some of the fundamental tenets of the religion at large. But I doubt somehow that'll ever happen since Islam is not hierarchical as Catholicism is.

Post: #4105

The Swedish daily Dagens Nyheter[1] published an article today titled “NATO: Xenophobia is fueled by a foreign power.” The article’s thesis is that “a third­party works in secret to foment Xenophobia in Europe.”

Quote:No foreign power is behind the European Resistance

The denial of reality continues unchecked. That Europe is being invaded by aliens is not the cause of the growing Resistance, clearly it isn’t. Nor the fact, that Europeans see their homelands capitulating to fortune­seeking ingrates, who only demand more concessions. Nor the concern, that violence and crime will increase. No, none of these is the cause.

Clearly, it is all the fault of a foreign power, and — we read between the lines — that power is Russia.

But was it also Russia’s fault five, ten, twenty years ago? The national opposition has grown year after year as a consequence of the policies pursued in European countries. Russia has nothing to do with that. Or does it? Did Putin dictate policy to the European politicians? If so, that’s yet another reason to do away with the European politicians.

And finally, it’s NATO that is providing this information. And we should trust it? How did that go with Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction? How did that go with the bombing campaigns in the Balkans?

No, one cannot think so highly of NATO.

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/201...more-31169

Post: #4106

(11-02-2015 12:24 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(11-02-2015 12:17 AM)flightofdeath Wrote:  

(11-01-2015 11:47 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Protip: arguing the No True Scotsman fallacy doesn't work any more effectively for Islam than it does Christianity (or Judaism for that matter).

Not a fallacy. Rather a reality.

You misunderstand. The No True Scotsman fallacy is a debating fallacy. It is an attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing").

That is, you can't say these practices are 'not true Islam' by suggesting 'no true Muslim would do such a thing', which in effect is what you just said.

Quite the contrary, per your own admission that 99% of Muslims are 'pretty much that', the inference appears quite available that these practices and interpretations are the chosen and preferred ones across Islam as a whole.

It would be easier if you just accepted that Islam basically needs its own equivalent of the Christian Reformation: a wholesale coring out, schism, and re-evaluation of some of the fundamental tenets of the religion at large. But I doubt somehow that'll ever happen since Islam is not hierarchical as Catholicism is.

What I meant was that 99% don't really know the correct form of Islam and aren't practicing it. That doesn't mean that all 99% are in agreeance about the practices and interpretations. There are many different ways people are practicing Islam. Most of them are wrong. That is why I label them bad people. Not because all of them are out to destroy non-Muslims. That is not the case. Yet their ignorance about Islam makes them do things that would never be approved in their own religion.

Point being the problems in the Muslim world are not because they are actually practicing their religion. It's because they aren't practicing their religion. What they are practicing is a servicing of their own desires and lifestyles, which they think is what their religion is.
The less than 1% that IS actually practicing it correctly, are not in public limelight.

Post: #4107

This "flightofdeath" guy has to be trolling. Says that only 1% of Muslims practice the religion properly (and I assume he believes he's one of them) but he has no actual substance to back up such a claim. Honor killings aren't precisely prescribed in the Quran but the language in it and in some Hadiths paves a smooth road for such a drastic interpretation. Many claim that it's simply "tribal", but that can't be since if that were the case it would only be a trait of Arabs. However, honor killings occur all over the Muslim world, while Christian and Jewish Arabs do not practice honor killings.

Post: #4108

Quote:What I meant was that 99% don't really know the correct form of Islam and aren't practicing it. That doesn't mean that all 99% are in agreeance about the practices and interpretations. There are many different ways people are practicing Islam. Most of them are wrong.

And that, as I said, now for the third time, is the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Post: #4109

(11-02-2015 01:55 AM)Mr. Brightside Wrote:  This "flightofdeath" guy has to be trolling.

Sadly, he may not be. Vox Day's book "SJWs Always Lie" discusses these types of people.

They're so-called "moderates", but they've no ideology and no moral principles. So rather than saying something like, "To rape innocent women is wrong; what are we going to do about it?" - they strongly believe that using the same methods as the rapists (i.e. - violence) makes you "just like the rapists".

Vox has a brilliant analogy, "The Nazis used bombs, tanks, and machine guns to invade Poland. But the Allies who defeated the Nazis used bombs, tanks, and machine guns to defeat the Nazis. Did the Allies become Nazis by using those tactics? Of course not. They remained the opposite of the Nazis because they had the opposite ideology."

But that analogy doesn't dissuade "flightofdeath", because he has no principles. And, having no principles, he has neither strength of convictions, nor strength of body. Which leaves him weak fearful of any powerful cultural force that would potentially over-power him.
So he offers ridiculous arguments to dampen the fighting spirit of his culture.

Today, his argument is, "Because not all Muslims are like that, we shouldn't be violent against them." Tomorrow, his argument will be, "Because it's the lack of adherence to Islam that causes the violence, we shouldn't be violent against violent, misguided Islamists." Who knows what he'll say next?

--------------

Vox Day's Amusing article on moderates is here.

The tl;dr version: "How can you identify a moderate? He is the man who only shoots at his own side, never the enemy. This isn't to say that moderates can't learn. I have known a few who have done so, gradually and over time, mostly by virtue of having their "friends" on the other side repay their steadfast good will with repeated betrayals and regular stabs in the back.

Moderates merit civility, but no respect. And above all, do NOT permit them any input into strategy and tactics. They are worse than useless in that regard. "

Post: #4110

(11-02-2015 01:55 AM)Mr. Brightside Wrote:  This "flightofdeath" guy has to be trolling. Says that only 1% of Muslims practice the religion properly (and I assume he believes he's one of them) but he has no actual substance to back up such a claim.

I''m not claiming it as an accurate statistical claim, more like an estimate based on what I know. And no, I don't think I'm one of them. Not yet at least. Haven't achieved a level of practice like that yet. As for proving it, that's not possible unless you are willing to meet the people.
What I'm saying might sound absurd to you, but anyone who knows Islam would know this. Based on what Prophet Mohammad said, that like the Israelites before them, Muslims too would be divided into 73 sects, of which only one would be on the right path.

Post: #4111

(11-02-2015 02:10 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Sadly, he may not be. Vox Day's book "SJWs Always Lie" discusses these types of people.

They're so-called "moderates", but they've no ideology and no moral principles. So rather than saying something like, "To rape innocent women is wrong; what are we going to do about it?" - they strongly believe that using the same methods as the rapists (i.e. - violence) makes you "just like the rapists".

If you saw me, you would never call me a moderate. There is no moderatism or extremism in Islam, anyone who subscribes to these ideologies is adding things to the religion on his own, which have nothing to do with how Islam. I never said anything that would make me sound moderate. I never said that the true form of Islam is something non-Muslims would like. No, to them it would still be rigid. But true Islam does not promote killing of innocents, as is being as assumed by verses being taken out of context.
As for rape, there is no harsher punishment for that crime than in Islam, which if I were in power in a Muslim country, I would completely adhere to.
It's funny being compared to SJWs because I'm completely the anti of that.

Quote:So he offers ridiculous arguments to dampen the fighting spirit of his culture.

If this is in reference to Jihad, then once again there is a misunderstanding. I have not once claimed that Jihad isn't a part of Islam, it most surely is. If their interests are being attacked, you can expect the Hindus or the Buddhists to meekly surrender, but not true Muslims. And there is no force more fearsome than them.
Your perceptions have been screwed because of this recent emerging of so-called Jihadists. When the real Jihadists will actually emerge, you will most certainly know. Their aim though is not to kill all life on Earth as is being assumed.

Quote:Today, his argument is, "Because not all Muslims are like that, we shouldn't be violent against them." Tomorrow, his argument will be, "Because it's the lack of adherence to Islam that causes the violence, we shouldn't be violent against violent, misguided Islamists." Who knows what he'll say next?

One, I have no sympathies for the "Islamists" or no desire to see them live. Because they have nothing to do with Islam, apart from being born into that religion. Secondly, I never said "not all Muslims are like that". Infact, I said the opposite. I have no interest in defending Muslims. My original response was merely regarding the misinterpretation of Islam regarding violence.

Post: #4112

Quote:What I meant was that 99% don't really know the correct form of Islam and aren't practicing it. That doesn't mean that all 99% are in agreeance about the practices and interpretations.

Anybody who knows anything about hermeneutics is aware that there is no such thing as a correct interpretation of ambiguous texts (and all religious texts are ambiguous due to the mere fact that they do not have a single writer, have been changed numerous times throughout history - and their original intent was never to be crystal clear).

Besides, it does not matter. It has been amply demonstrated that what matters is not what religious doctrine states but what its followers actually practice (for example, in this book).

So, no, for anybody with a sufficiently functioning brain islamic doctrine does not matter, only its actual practice does. And a lot of the problems we are seeing today stem not from people becoming more secular but from the return to religious doctrine (no matter how badly interpreted) in the muslim world.

Post: #4113

Your prophet was a kiddie fiddler.

Post: #4114

(11-02-2015 02:36 AM)flightofdeath Wrote:  As for rape, there is no harsher punishment for that crime than in Islam, which if I were in power in a Muslim country, I would completely adhere to.

Raping Muslim women, maybe.

Raping women captured by Muslim men as trophies of battle, not so much. Shall we go through the Hadith on this subject, or indeed the glories of the woman "obtained by your right hand"?

Post: #4115

(11-02-2015 02:36 AM)flightofdeath Wrote:  If you saw me, you would never call me a moderate. There is no moderatism or extremism in Islam, anyone who subscribes to these ideologies is adding things to the religion on his own, which have nothing to do with how Islam.

It's funny that forum members have patiently held your hand and explained what the No True Scotsman fallacy is, and you still don't get it. Your reasoning skills are that of a woman.

Post: #4116

Its not Islam, true. It never is. Its Islam-Arabic mentality to blame others all the time. The west, the jews, the unbelievers. Everyone do them wrong, everyone is lower. Still their countries are a mess. Of course not because they think in tribes, corrupt and greedy. No its only the fault of everyone else.
Same when they arrive in Europe, can live safe, can send their kids to school, make a living, practice their religion, get not bet up by the police. They complain. They complain how racist Europeans are, how less they get. Arab Muslims have the mentality that they deserve everything for free.

Look as Iranians, look at Indonesians. They are different kind of Muslims. Only Arab Muslims have this strange mentality. I'm tired of those losers. Thats all they are, losers. They contribute nothing positive to a western society nor to the world. Just frustration, hate and anger.

The issue with Muslims is, they live in fear. Their religion is of punishment. In Christianity the image of the heaven is a way stronger. In Islam its always the fear of the hell that make them stick to their rules. And then they see the west, people don't follow those stupid rules and have a better live. And the more, western people don't live in a permanent fear of the hell. Thats what they can't get. Thats what made them hate us so much. They live in fear and we don't.

They are like kids in a candy store, they see it all but fear if they take one piece the get a punishment. And then they see the other kids eating candy outside. Rage muslim mode on...

Post: #4117

The Muslim hate on this forum is ridiculous

Post: #4118

(11-02-2015 03:45 AM)Candlejack Wrote:  The Muslim hate on this forum is ridiculous

The Muslim hate on this forum is justified by the historical record, contemporary realities and everyone's observational skills.

There, fixed that for you.

P.S: On top of everything else, this is a pick up forum. Do you expect us to embrace a culture that states that men from said culture can sleep with women from other cultures but the reverse is forbidded? How is that rational for non-muslum men?

Post: #4119

(11-02-2015 03:45 AM)Candlejack Wrote:  The Muslim hate on this forum is ridiculous

I hate people who come to my country and systematically rape young girls.

I hate people who come to my country and complain about the culture and wish to change it to suit them.

I hate people want to apply barbaric medieval systems of law in a country where it isn't needed.

I hate people who import heroin and call it a chemical jihad.

I hate people who come to the country of my birth and look down there noses at my kind because we're not like them.

I hate people who make women cover themselves up. I have this thing called self-control so they don't need to cover up to reduce perceived threats.

To you, that makes me a muslim hater. To me, it's common sense. To progressives and leftists I'd be classed as a racist bigot because I dislike immigration. I don't care about your labels, I decide for myself what is right or wrong.

Post: #4120

(11-02-2015 03:45 AM)Candlejack Wrote:  The Muslim hate on this forum is ridiculous

Well, in the UK you would get burnt at the steak or thrown in Auschwitz for saying anti-islamic things no matter how true they are.
So i guess most of on here feel free to express our opinions about islam without persecution.

But the be fair. The only non-muslims who don't hate islam are the ones that don't really know anything about it. These are you left wing idiots on facebook posting about how halal slaughter is fine and any form of discrimination is the worst thing a person can do.
The people who have no idea about what they are deffending but will defend it to the death because of political correctness. And will feel so good about it whilst calling others un-educated on the subject.
Its basically just as bad (if not worse) than being openly bigoted towards something.

I think there are 5.5 billion people on this planet that don't like islam.

Post: #4121

It occurred to me on reading back over a rough timeline of Muhammad's life that Islam seems to have a lot more in common with Scientology than Christianity or Judaism.

- Both founded by former salesmen
- Both have harsh penalties for leaving
- Both call anyone who criticises them 'bigoted'
- Both have the tacit or direct support of the rich and powerful
- Both have rich useful idiots speaking for them in Hollywood
- Both have a culture of removing the new adherent from their old culture and submerging them in the religion
- Both have produced nothing but religion
- Both are based on Original Research
- Both try to whitewash their respective founders' pasts
- Both claim they make people's lives better
- Both crush lives with regularity judging by results rather than stated intentions

Am I missing anything?

Post: #4122

(11-02-2015 04:30 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  It occurred to me on reading back over a rough timeline of Muhammad's life that Islam seems to have a lot more in common with Scientology than Christianity or Judaism.

- Both founded by former salesmen
- Both have harsh penalties for leaving
- Both call anyone who criticises them 'bigoted'
- Both have the tacit or direct support of the rich and powerful
- Both have rich useful idiots speaking for them in Hollywood
- Both have a culture of removing the new adherent from their old culture and submerging them in the religion
- Both have produced nothing but religion
- Both are based on Original Research
- Both try to whitewash their respective founders' pasts
- Both claim they make people's lives better
- Both crush lives with regularity judging by results rather than stated intentions

Am I missing anything?

You'll find better parallels between Mormonism and Muhammadism.

Post: #4123

(11-02-2015 04:30 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  It occurred to me on reading back over a rough timeline of Muhammad's life that Islam seems to have a lot more in common with Scientology than Christianity or Judaism.

- Both founded by former salesmen
- Both have harsh penalties for leaving
- Both call anyone who criticises them 'bigoted'
- Both have the tacit or direct support of the rich and powerful
- Both have rich useful idiots speaking for them in Hollywood
- Both have a culture of removing the new adherent from their old culture and submerging them in the religion
- Both have produced nothing but religion
- Both are based on Original Research
- Both try to whitewash their respective founders' pasts
- Both claim they make people's lives better
- Both crush lives with regularity judging by results rather than stated intentions

Am I missing anything?

You are missing the fact that Scientology actually has some useful mental, NLP, visualisation techniques which help you in your life. Of course only if you are a billionaire and can spare a few million dollars.

Post: #4124

(11-02-2015 03:45 AM)Candlejack Wrote:  The Muslim hate on this forum is ridiculous

I don't hate Muslims, because that would be stupid. It's not their fault for having been born into a negative religion. In the past there were many other such paths which are now gone. The Romans despite their pragmatic stance often sacrificed their own soldiers to Mars before a battle, the Incas sacrificed countless people to the Sun God. If those religions existed now, then the SJWs and Western governments would ask for tolerance and claim that human sacrifice is just their way of life.

I have stated again and again that it's a small wonder that many Muslims are such great people despite their negative religion.

I will continue to judge each person based on what I see and sense with my intuition. However that discrimination must bow to logic when you meet with millions coming over to Europe. There is no way to screen them and actually our governments simply don't do that.

Some of my Muslim acquaintances left Iran in the last years the normal way. They applied for asylum, visum at the respective embassies. One couple is living in Hungary and one in the US now. Both are secular and actually converted to another religion and found it unbearable to live in Iran any longer. The workers at the embassies saw it similarly and let them enter the country. A friend of mine has a father who is an Imam from Afghanistan and he was born in Afghanistan himself. He partied with the rest of the rat pack and is now married to a German traditional girl. Maybe one of the reasons why he is at distance to Islam is because he was terribly beaten up in Afghanistan on a home visit. His crime was falling in love with a local girl - they did not even have sex, but just talking on the phone was enough. Their brothers found out and almost killed him. And don't give me that bullshit that this has nothing to do with Islam. Most folk learn through osmosis and not through reading texts by scholars who comprise the intellectual 1%.

We can criticize the Islam faith just as we should be free to criticize all other religions and even political directions of those like Zionism or the Christian Jesuits, Spanish Inquisition.

Not all religions are equal and if Muslims don't realize that their path needs massive reformations or even basic changes, then I am afraid that this will end badly for all of them. This might very well end in a global genocide of tremendous proportions or more likely in the formation of a ruthless One World Government that controls us all.

The elite is using Muslims the world over to achieve that goal. I doubt that the real leaders are naive about the people they let in right now.

Post: #4125

Bulgarian border guards catch 129 migrants in the refrigeration unit of a truck

129 people. One single truck. Bulgaria has no way to sustain even 10 000 migrants (currently there are ~2300 officially in the refugee camps and probably 5-6000 left in Bulgaria and living among the population). There are no jobs for them (even if there were, I highly doubt they will be working for 250 euro after taxes which is generally what unskilled labor gets you in Bulgaria) and practically no welfare available.
If deportations do not start soon, civil war will.