Post: #1

This was posted today by a friend on social media.

Quote:Now that the official day of genocide celebrated yesterday is over. I still refuse to celebrate or even use its name. He wasn't even American, he murdered real Americans, and now you save 30% at the register.

As I google the term "Columbus Day" I find more and more accusations of murder each year. But was this really the case?

Isn't the reason we have modern civilization today because of the conquering of new lands and it's people?

What do you guys think?

Post: #2

Yeah its a shame.

Hernan Cortes killed thousands of native Aztecs in Mexico and was responsible for enslaving native Indians.

I never hear anything negative or complaining coming out of the Mexicans. In fact, many Mexicans today recognize Cortes as a vital figure in their history. Negative or positive, its still history.

It seems to me its only Americans who get all sensitive over things in the past. Its a shame really.

Post: #3

I think don't feed the leftist trolls.

Post: #4

Tell him his white body is tainted by Columbus' heinous crimes and the only way to wash the corruption away is to go kill himself. But make sure to suggest he do so by jumping into a large body of water in some out of the way place where his corpse will be carried out to sea by the currents. His white body has sinned enough...the last thing we'd want is for it to impose on the bodies of people of color even in death, by wasting their tax money on cleanup costs.

This should always be the message to self-hating white scum: go kill yourself. It's the right thing to do.

Post: #5

(10-12-2015 04:33 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  Tell him his white body is tainted by Columbus' heinous crimes and the only way to wash the corruption away is to go kill himself. But make sure to suggest he do so by jumping into a large body of water in some out of the way place where his corpse will be carried out to sea by the currents. His white body has sinned enough...the last thing we'd want is for it to impose on the bodies of people of color even in death, by wasting their tax money on cleanup costs.

This should always be the message to white liberal scum: go fucking kill yourself.

This dude is not a liberal. He was a team leader in the infantry platoon I served with and generally shares the same views as many men on this forum. He's married with kids so he's not trying to pussy pander. I think he just saw some BS articles and swallowed it without thinking.

I'd like to point out his error because he would probably change his views if you put him on the right track. This same guy was defending the female Ranger school graduates until I sent him that article People published about the lowering of standards. After he read the article he was blown away.

Do we blame the media or the people who swallow everything whole? Both I think.

Post: #6

(10-12-2015 04:46 AM)PainPositive Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 04:33 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  Tell him his white body is tainted by Columbus' heinous crimes and the only way to wash the corruption away is to go kill himself. But make sure to suggest he do so by jumping into a large body of water in some out of the way place where his corpse will be carried out to sea by the currents. His white body has sinned enough...the last thing we'd want is for it to impose on the bodies of people of color even in death, by wasting their tax money on cleanup costs.

This should always be the message to white liberal scum: go fucking kill yourself.

This dude is not a liberal. He was a team leader in the infantry platoon I served with and generally shares the same views as many men on this forum. He's married with kids so he's not trying to pussy pander. I think he just saw some BS articles and swallowed it without thinking.

I'd like to point out his error because he would probably change his views if you put him on the right track. This same guy was defending the female Ranger school graduates until I sent him that article People published about the lowering of standards. After he read the article he was blown away.

Do we blame the media or the people who swallow everything whole? Both I think.

I've met a lot of traditional conservative Christians who are at heart good people but extremely gullible and white knight hard for women because that's the way they were raised. Guys like this aren't like many leftists who know what they are spouting is hypocritical bullshit.

They are just indoctrinated this way by their environment it's more forgivable and you can always inform guys like this.

They won't always see your point of view but most are open to rational logic at least.

Post: #7

Quote:Now that the official day of genocide celebrated yesterday is over. I still refuse to celebrate or even use its name. He wasn't even American, he murdered real Americans, and now you save 30% at the register.

Accuse him of being a Nationalist against Open Borders.

Post: #8

There's an informative article on history.com you can read, plus a short video.

http://www.history.com/topics/exploratio...ontroversy

Doesn't go into so much detail on the nature of his conquering of the locals, but it's clear the stories we've been told over the past few generations were not 100% true either.

What is more important to me is the truth, not bashing Columbus Day because it fits someone's narrative on facebook twitter today.

The truth is Columbus didn't technically "discover" the Americas, and he was directly responsible for some pretty terrible things. Should we stop celebrating him personally? Not really up to me. But I wouldn't be surprised if they renamed or "redefined" the holiday sometime in the next 5-10 years.

Quote:As the classroom rhyme goes, Christopher Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492 and discovered America. But there is more to the story of the explorer we celebrate with a federal holiday on the second Monday of every October. As historians have continued to learn and write more about the real life of Christopher Columbus, controversy has arisen over the validity of honoring the explorer as a hero.

Like many European explorers, Columbus encountered many indigenous people throughout his voyages. Singularly focused on his mission to find riches and conquer new lands, Columbus and his teams treated the indigenous groups they came across as obstacles to their greater mission. There are three main sources of controversy involving Columbus’s interactions with the indigenous people he labeled “Indians”: the use of violence and slavery, the forced conversion of native peoples to Christianity, and the introduction of a host of new diseases that would have dramatic long-term effects on native people in the Americas. Historians have uncovered extensive evidence of the damage wreaked by Columbus and his teams, leading to an outcry over emphasis placed upon studying and celebrating him in schools and public celebrations.

In an era in which the international slave trade was starting to grow, Columbus and his men enslaved many native inhabitants of the West Indies and subjected them to extreme violence and brutality. On his famous first voyage in 1492, Columbus landed on an unknown Caribbean island after an arduous three-month journey. On his first day in the New World, he ordered six of the natives to be seized, writing in his journal that he believed they would be good servants. Throughout his years in the New World, Columbus enacted policies of forced labor in which natives were put to work for the sake of profits. Later, Columbus sent thousands of peaceful Taino “Indians” from the island of Hispaniola to Spain to be sold. Many died en route. Those left behind were forced to search for gold in mines and on plantations. Within 60 years after Columbus landed, only a few hundred of what may have been 250,000 Taino were left on their island.

As governor and viceroy of the Indies, Columbus imposed iron discipline on what is now the Caribbean country of Dominican Republic, according to documents discovered by Spanish historians in 2005. In response to native unrest and revolt, Columbus ordered the a brutal crackdown in which many natives were killed; in an attempt to deter further rebellion, Columbus ordered their dismembered bodies to be paraded through the streets.

In addition to the controversy over enslavement and violent rule, the “Age of Exploration” Columbus led had the additional consequence of bringing new diseases to the New World which would, over time, devastate the native populations of many New World islands and communities. In the broader sense, historians have used the phrase “Columbian exchange” to describe the exchange of plants, animals and goods between the East and West that his voyages sparked. Though the effects were widespread and cannot all be dismissed as negative, critics of Columbus have asserted that the worst aspects of this exchange added up to biological warfare.

Eventually, his methods and actions caught up with Columbus. A number of settlers lobbied against him at the Spanish court, accusing Columbus of mismanagement. In 1500, the king and queen sent in a royal administrator, who detained Columbus and his brothers and had them shipped home.

Although Columbus regained his freedom and made a fourth and final voyage to the New World, he had lost his governorship and much of his prestige.

This historical record has cast Columbus into the shadow of enormous consequence. Protests at Columbus Day parades, efforts to eliminate him from classroom curricula, and calls for changing the federal holiday have all followed. Whatever your views of the “Columbus controversy,” this holiday continues to be an important way for all Americans to learn more about the Age of Exploration and the enormous transformations it provoked.

Post: #9

I just want to be able to have a day off please

Post: #10

Let's hear what the real Jersey Italians have to say about this --





But I think the last word, and the finest, on this topic was spoken by Tony --





EDIT -- Ah, the videos don't play outside of Youtube. Here are the links:
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbbMIg-Aw8E
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb7BIaaxGAU

Post: #11

I was just tweeting:

"Indigenous people have contributed nothing to Western civilization, therefore they don't get their own holiday #ColumbusDay"

...."But that's the whole idea behind liberalism, is that people get rewarded for doing absolutely nothing! #ColumbusDay"

Because I had seen that now people want "Indigenous people's day":

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio.../73802278/

No, no, no... You're not just handed a holiday on a silver platter. You have to earn it. Columbus made 4 brave and daring voyages across the Atlantic Ocean and put North America on the map, literally! Although he may not have been the first person there, he changed the course of Western history by letting Europe know there was in fact something across the giant ocean.

SJW's and the left like to put down Columbus Day and change the narrative because it plays into their Marxist framework of egalitarianism. They have to sweep aside accomplishments of white men, to bring them down, while simultaneously trying to make minorities look better. This idea of egalitarianism goes beyond culture, and is why the West is composed of welfare states, to bring up the poverty stricken (i.e. unsuccessful) and bring down the rich (i.e. successful).

Again, not to shit all over Native Americans, but their culture was anathema to Europeans. Sure they taught us valuable agricultural techniques, but in terms of long lasting contributions there are none I can think of. Whereas the native's now get to enjoy indoor plumbing and electricity.

This also brings up an interesting point. Should we celebrate cultures and peoples just for the sake of doing so?

Edit: To answer one of the questions in the original OP...

The idea behind Columbus being a bloodthirsty murderer is ludicrous. Gmac posted a good link, but to clarify, Columbus only committed those acts on the Dominican Republic. It was to be the center of the Spanish colonies in the West, and they saw the natives as obstacles. Of course, this isn't to exonerate his behavior, but to pt things in perspective. The natives weren't peaches either, as in many cases they tried to attack Columbus and his crew even when he came in peace.

I also recommend 'The Last Voyage of Columbus' by Martin Dugard. Good stuff.

Post: #12

I enjoy Columbus Day because nothing is more enjoyable to me than knowing a bunch of hapless natives died from European disease and were enslaved by a more powerful people.

That's what happens when you run around and never advanced beyond bow, arrows, and spears.

For the record, Avatar should have been cut and dry. Nuke the stupid tree from low earth orbit.

Post: #13

I enjoy the day off, don't feed the leftist trolls, and find some Italians to party with.

If the libtards don't like it, they can do us all a favor and leave the US.

Post: #14

(10-12-2015 09:13 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  For the record, Avatar should have been cut and dry. Nuke the stupid tree from low earth orbit.

But then the area around the tree would have been too contaminated for mining

Post: #15

Fuck, fellas, if you want institutional racial guilt screamed at you by an indigenous population that did two parts of fuck all technologically with the big patches of land they lucked into, come on down and stop by Australia!

Post: #16

(10-12-2015 09:35 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Fuck, fellas, if you want institutional racial guilt screamed at you by an indigenous population that did two parts of fuck all technologically with the big patches of land they lucked into, come on down and stop by Australia!

or Canada. I'm sure Canadians and Australians could compare notes on how the white man is to blame for the indigenous people's plight.

Post: #17

(10-12-2015 09:24 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 09:13 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  For the record, Avatar should have been cut and dry. Nuke the stupid tree from low earth orbit.

But then the area around the tree would have been too contaminated for mining

I can't take credit for coming up with this, but I read the suggestion somewhere they could have simply crashed one of their spaceships in the area. A big chunk of metal accelerated to .1c (where c is speed of light) would release far more kinetic energy than any number of nukes but without contamination by radioactive byproducts. "Dry heat" if you will.

Of course, the pitfall with that suggestion is that an unmodified spaceship would go supernova in the upper atmosphere upon entry at those ludicrous speeds. So my idea is they could have "dive bombed" the planet, by flying a ship at a steep angle that just misses the atmosphere, and releasing some kind of heat shielded, tapered projectile, similar to the "rods from God" concept. The very fact that we have this concept even today with our primitive spacefaring capability means that the civilization in Avatar with its interstellar vessels would have surely taken advantage of the power afforded by kinematic bombardment achievable at those velocities.



Edit: on second thought, releasing the projectiles at interstellar speeds would be overkill. Doing so from space stations/ships in high orbit would be more than sufficient. From wikipedia:

Quote:In the case of the system mentioned in the 2003 Air Force report above, a 6.1 m × 0.3 m tungsten cylinder impacting at Mach 10 has a kinetic energy equivalent to approximately 11.5 tons of TNT (or 7.2 tons of dynamite). The mass of such a cylinder is itself greater than 9 tons, so the practical applications of such a system are limited to those situations where its other characteristics provide a clear and decisive advantage—a conventional bomb/warhead of similar weight to the tungsten rod, delivered by conventional means, provides similar destructive capability and is far more practical and cost effective. Some other sources suggest a speed of 36,000 ft/s (11,000 m/s),[11] which for the aforementioned rod would amount to a kinetic energy equivalent to 120 tons of TNT or 0.12 kt.

I would imagine that human operations on hostile alien worlds that go to the trouble of provisioning extensive armed ground forces would also equip their orbital assets with some variation of this kind of kinetic weaponry to be used with utter impunity. I'd like to see the jolly blue men defend themselves from 5 ton exotic-alloy rods falling from the sky at Mach 10

Post: #18

The best angle is to use Columbus Day as an argument against open border policies. American Indians opened up their homeland to invaders. Look what happened to them! The Europeans did not pick out specific tribes and judge them as different and worthy, so why expect invaders to appreciate cooperation from the natives? Will casinos be a good replacement for American culture?

Post: #19

Here our local populist leader, Cristina Kirchnner, to appease thei moronic leftoid hordes that follow her, changed in 2010 the day´s name from "Race day" (Dia de la Raza) to "Cultural diversity respect day" (Dia del respeto a la diversidad cultural). Guess how most of the people still call this day?

Post: #20

(10-12-2015 09:43 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 09:24 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 09:13 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  For the record, Avatar should have been cut and dry. Nuke the stupid tree from low earth orbit.

But then the area around the tree would have been too contaminated for mining

I can't take credit for coming up with this, but I read the suggestion somewhere they could have simply crashed one of their spaceships in the area. A big chunk of metal accelerated to .1c (where c is speed of light) would release far more kinetic energy than any number of nukes but without contamination by radioactive byproducts. "Dry heat" if you will.

Of course, the pitfall with that suggestion is that an unmodified spaceship would go supernova in the upper atmosphere upon entry at those ludicrous speeds. So my idea is they could have "dive bombed" the planet, by flying a ship at a steep angle that just misses the atmosphere, and releasing some kind of heat shielded, tapered projectile, similar to the "rods from God" concept. The very fact that we have this concept even today with our primitive spacefaring capability means that the civilization in Avatar with its interstellar vessels would have surely taken advantage of the power afforded by kinematic bombardment achievable at those velocities.



Edit: on second thought, releasing the projectiles at interstellar speeds would be overkill. Doing so from space stations/ships in high orbit would be more than sufficient. From wikipedia:

Quote:In the case of the system mentioned in the 2003 Air Force report above, a 6.1 m × 0.3 m tungsten cylinder impacting at Mach 10 has a kinetic energy equivalent to approximately 11.5 tons of TNT (or 7.2 tons of dynamite). The mass of such a cylinder is itself greater than 9 tons, so the practical applications of such a system are limited to those situations where its other characteristics provide a clear and decisive advantage—a conventional bomb/warhead of similar weight to the tungsten rod, delivered by conventional means, provides similar destructive capability and is far more practical and cost effective. Some other sources suggest a speed of 36,000 ft/s (11,000 m/s),[11] which for the aforementioned rod would amount to a kinetic energy equivalent to 120 tons of TNT or 0.12 kt.

I would imagine that human operations on hostile alien worlds that go to the trouble of provisioning extensive armed ground forces would also equip their orbital assets with some variation of this kind of kinetic weaponry to be used with utter impunity. I'd like to see the jolly blue men defend themselves from 5 ton exotic-alloy rods falling from the sky at Mach 10

totally off thread topic, but amazing...that plain old 'basic' is better. A really fast space slingshot is more destructive than atomic weaponry and with no radioactive fallout.

No wonder the 80s was so pumped about the 'star wars program'. Low cost ammo, super destructive and no toxic collateral.

Post: #21

This mention of kinetic bombardment made me look it up on Wikipedia, where I stumbled upon this:

Quote:During the Vietnam War, there was limited use of the Lazy Dog bomb, a steel projectile shaped like a conventional bomb but only about 1" long and 3/8" diameter. A piece of sheet metal was folded to make the fins and welded to the rear of the projectile. These were dumped from aircraft onto enemy troops and had the same effect as a machine gun fired vertically. Observers visiting a battlefield after an attack said it looked like the ground had been 'tenderized' using a gigantic fork. Bodies had been penetrated longitudinally from shoulder to lower abdomen.

Post: #22

(10-12-2015 10:27 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  This mention of kinetic bombardment made me look it up on Wikipedia, where I stumbled upon this:

Quote:During the Vietnam War, there was limited use of the Lazy Dog bomb, a steel projectile shaped like a conventional bomb but only about 1" long and 3/8" diameter. A piece of sheet metal was folded to make the fins and welded to the rear of the projectile. These were dumped from aircraft onto enemy troops and had the same effect as a machine gun fired vertically. Observers visiting a battlefield after an attack said it looked like the ground had been 'tenderized' using a gigantic fork. Bodies had been penetrated longitudinally from shoulder to lower abdomen.

It really is something when a country throws everything and the kitchen sink in trying to dominate it and at the end the women of the "enemy" country are still 100x better looking than the country which did the bombing.



Only 1 very picky WNB in all of that..

I sense a pattern here where every single enemy of America has women that are just way fucking better looking and acting on average.

Maybe the recent middle eastern wars has broken that pattern where the local women have hairy arm pits and yogurt cooches and the men are dedicated pederasts.

Post: #23

Sailing across the Atlantic Ocean and discovering a new continent was as impactful as the moon landing in 1969. I respect people who take the risk to explore the unexplored.

I do not at all respect other things he did. Those things don't surprise me at all. Of course, he wasn't the only one either.

Post: #24

Most of the people who whine about it are white leftists, while the native groups who whine about it have so many mixed members that it's completely idiotic. They're insulting their ancestors when they're saying stupid shit about Columbus and other Spanish imperialists.

Lately I've started trolling American whinorities, specifically those who can trace their heritage back to Central and South America, by calling them white. It's hilarious how hard they protest, because being considered white would mean an end to the gibsmedats and being able to take endless potshots at the majority.

Post: #25

It's a Leftist Cliché to think of Indigenous Populations as both Morally-Superior to White Populations whilst also being over-idealistically Naive and Innocent - therefore needing protection and championing by Socially-Concerned Whites.

This is the standard Patronising Hollywood Archetype for this kind of thing: indigenous populations are living in peaceful, Utopian societies, but for the Evil White Invading Force.







Meanwhile, the historical record proves again and again these populations fought, killed, stole and exploited each other for resources, but subverted Hollywood from the 80's onwards is careful to deliberately-whitewash this.

For example:

Quote:Native American Warfare in the West: Conflict Among the Southwestern Indians


The Southwest. Indian fighting in the Southwest during the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries followed the mourning-war pattern prevalent among the eastern woodland Indians. Like their eastern counterparts, both sedentary Pueblo Indians and seminomadic tribes such as the Navajo warred to avenge the murder of their kinsmen. In important ways, however, warfare in the Southwest differed from that practiced in the eastern part of North America. First, semisedentary Native Americans raided both other seminomadic tribes and the Pueblo Indians in an effort to acquire material goods through plunder. More importantly, the Pueblo Indians living in and near the Rio Grande valley often fought wars that were more similar to European conflicts than to the woodland Indians’ blood feuds.

Semisedentary Tribes. Like their eastern neighbors, tribes such as the Apache and Navajo fought to avenge the deaths of kinsmen rather than to acquire territory. When a clan member was killed by Indians from another tribe, a war leader related to the deceased formed a war party composed of kinsmen and unrelated young men who sought the prestige that came through success in battle. After two nights of war dances and a day of feasting, the war party moved into enemy territory, where it took women and children captive and killed enemy warriors. Because semi-nomadic Indians such as the Navajo had to avenge every clan member killed by a rival tribe, blood-feud warfare was, as in the East, self-perpetuating and never ending. As with eastern woodland Indian conflict, moreover, warfare among the Native Americans of the Southwest produced light casualties in comparison to contemporary European wars.

Raiding Parties. There were, however, important differences between the objectives of eastern Indian warfare and the goals of their southwestern counterparts. While eastern Indians fought almost exclusively to achieve retribution, southwestern Indians clashed with their neighbors both to avenge previous wrongs and to loot them of material possessions. Apaches and Navajos, for example, raided both each other and the sedentary Pueblo Indian tribes in an effort to acquire goods through plunder. Though the distinction was missed by the Pueblo Indians and, later, by the Spanish, raiding parties differed substantially from war parties in terms of their objectives and their approach. While war parties sought to take captives and to achieve vengeance through killing, the smaller raiding parties hoped to avoid fighting and focused instead on taking booty. Raids often spawned blood feuds, though, because a tribe had to avenge the death of a warrior who died either in a raid or in an ensuing battle with pursuers.

Pueblo Indians. The sedentary Pueblo Indians of the Rio Grande valley likewise engaged in the vengeance-motivated warfare that was common to kinship-based societies. Pueblo warfare was not, however, limited to blood feuds. Living in and near the densely populated but resource-poor Rio Grande valley, Pueblo tribes such as the Hopis, Zunis, Piros, and Tewas fought with one another to secure control of the region’s limited supply of arable land. Such economically and territorially motivated warfare led the Pueblo Indians to make their adobe towns—called pueblos—powerful defensive fortifications. They did so by building their settlements atop steep mesas, by constructing their multistory buildings around a central plaza to form sheer exterior walls, and by limiting access to the main square to a single, narrow, easily defended passageway. Navajo and Apache raiding parties consequently found the Pueblo Indians’ settlements to be tempting but formidable targets.

Sources

George J. Gumerman, ed., Themes in Southwest Prehistory (Santa Fe, N.M.: School of American Research Press, 1994);

Elizabeth H. John, Storms Brewed in Other Men’s Worlds: The Confrontation of Indians, Spanish and French in the Southwest, 1540–1795 (College Station: Texas A&M University Press, 1975);

Alfonso Ortiz, ed., Handbook of North American Indians, Volume 9: Southwest (Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution, 1979);

Ortiz, ed., Handbook of North American Indians, Volume 10: Southwest (Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution, 1983).