Post: #1

I have a female friend whom I get along with quite well, albeit her conversational topics are largely centred around how she can best get hot dick. She claims she has my best interests a heart and says she is supportive of my transition from fucking random sluts to looking for a long-term relationship. (I guess I'm just maturing a bit). However why does it feel like she wants to sabotage me. I was pursuing a cute high quality girl in my course and then get a message from her saying. "X told me you fucked her friend in her dad's bed... So much for nice guy Mattius".

Is this just affirmation that women never have your best interests at heart. She knew I was pursuing this girl but screwed me over anyways and were meant to be close friends. Are female friends a myth?.....

Post: #2

(10-11-2015 08:55 PM)Mattius Wrote:  Are female friends a myth?.....

There's an old movie called "When Harry met Sally", that addresses this question well.

As far as having your best interests at heart, women don't, and men don't either, and that's ok.

Post: #3

OP, did you 2 ever hook up?

Sounds like she prefers you to be single, either because you're a good wingman to her, or because she wants you.
Even if that's not the case, just by being her friend, wingman you are adding value to her. She's well aware you will have less time for her if you'd get a LTR.

Post: #4

(10-12-2015 01:24 AM)Svoboda Wrote:  OP, did you 2 ever hook up?

Sounds like she prefers you to be single, either because you're a good wingman to her, or because she wants you.
Even if that's not the case, just by being her friend, wingman you are adding value to her. She's well aware you will have less time for her if you'd get a LTR.

No. We've never hooked up and she didn't seemed annoyed at all when I went to bed with her friend while she was asleep in the next room. But that's a good point. She keeps going on about how, it'd never work out between myself and this other girl etc etc keeps referring to me as a "fuckboy for life" (someone who could never hold down a relationship).
Maybe this relationship is costing me more than I'm gaining or will in the future...

Post: #5

(10-12-2015 06:51 AM)Mattius Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 01:24 AM)Svoboda Wrote:  OP, did you 2 ever hook up?

Sounds like she prefers you to be single, either because you're a good wingman to her, or because she wants you.
Even if that's not the case, just by being her friend, wingman you are adding value to her. She's well aware you will have less time for her if you'd get a LTR.

No. We've never hooked up and she didn't seemed annoyed at all when I went to bed with her friend while she was asleep in the next room. But that's a good point. She keeps going on about how, it'd never work out between myself and this other girl etc etc keeps referring to me as a "fuckboy for life" (someone who could never hold down a relationship).
Maybe this relationship is costing me more than I'm gaining or will in the future...

Additionally, when people ask if we're together she always laughs it off saying really? And keeps affirming that her type is tall blonde muscular guys etc. She's a fair bit taller than me and blonde whilst I'm like 5'7. Whenever I hook girls she always acts so surprised? The implication definitely has to do with my race since we live in a relatively racist city.

Post: #6

This isn't that complicated.

Male or female: if they are bringing negative value to your life, tell them to fuck off. If she is putting you down and fuckin up prospects, why is she your "friend" again?

Post: #7

(10-11-2015 08:55 PM)Mattius Wrote:  I have a female friend whom I get along with quite well, albeit her conversational topics are largely centred around how she can best get hot dick.

(10-11-2015 08:55 PM)Mattius Wrote:  Is this just affirmation that women never have your best interests at heart. She knew I was pursuing this girl but screwed me over anyways and were meant to be close friends. Are female friends a myth?.....

Post: #8

(10-12-2015 08:11 AM)blck Wrote:  

(10-11-2015 08:55 PM)Mattius Wrote:  I have a female friend whom I get along with quite well, albeit her conversational topics are largely centred around how she can best get hot dick.

(10-11-2015 08:55 PM)Mattius Wrote:  Is this just affirmation that women never have your best interests at heart. She knew I was pursuing this girl but screwed me over anyways and were meant to be close friends. Are female friends a myth?.....

Hahaha. On inspection of that first statement and the proceeding meme you make a very good point.
As for "why am i friends with her?". Is it normal for men to want decent quality looking girls around them all the time even if they're not copulating? Maybe subconciously continued it because her presence adds to my SMV.

Post: #9

(10-11-2015 08:55 PM)Mattius Wrote:  "... So much for nice guy Mattius".

Sounds like she's in wuv. Congrats on shedding the ole nice guy skin.

Post: #10

(10-12-2015 08:21 AM)Mattius Wrote:  Hahaha. On inspection of that first statement and the proceeding meme you make a very good point.
As for "why am i friends with her?". Is it normal for men to want decent quality looking girls around them all the time even if they're not copulating? Maybe subconciously continued it because her presence adds to my SMV.

Since we all got influenced by the leftist bullshit we have been conditioned to think that being around beautiful females is rewarding even if we don't bang them but the truth is hard...

Subconsciously or Not Women see men who hang around and grant them favors without trying to get in their pants as Bitch ass chump, They want you to try to fuck them even if refuse to lay down they'll get their pants wet because some "Real man" tried to abuse them. They don't want some truthful stupid Phaggot who wait the right time to fuck (i.e on the bed)

If you take the some principles of Game you'll get my point because as a whole Game is acting like a Man should, don't take my word on this and try it by yourself you'll be thrilled.

Post: #11

(10-12-2015 09:07 AM)blck Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 08:21 AM)Mattius Wrote:  Hahaha. On inspection of that first statement and the proceeding meme you make a very good point.
As for "why am i friends with her?". Is it normal for men to want decent quality looking girls around them all the time even if they're not copulating? Maybe subconciously continued it because her presence adds to my SMV.

Since we all got influenced by the leftist bullshit we have been conditioned to think that being around beautiful females is rewarding even if we don't bang them but the truth is hard...

Subconsciously or Not Women see men who hang around and grant them favors without trying to get in their pants as Bitch ass chump, They want you to try to fuck them even if refuse to lay down they'll get their pants wet because some "Real man" tried to abuse them. They don't want some truthful stupid Phaggot who wait the right time to fuck (i.e on the bed)

If you take the some principles of Game you'll get my point because as a whole Game is acting like a Man should, don't take my word on this and try it by yourself you'll be thrilled.

Thanks, I'll take that on board. You're very right. Sometimes she'll say "you're like my bitch" and then I remind her that I've pumped three of her friends right under her nose in her house. But this doesn't seem to faze her. I definitely see the validity in your assertion that she wants me to want to fuck her. Whenever I'm drunk and we're out together and I'm being playful and touchy she eats it right up. When we're together she will come in close and then look at me in the eyes then laugh and pull away when I say something sexual. Additionally, she always asks me to do shit for her. Even though these things are by no means onerous, it just shows that she is trying to make me her bitch.

Maybe I'll just go out with her one night, stay at her house bang the shit out of her pretentious pussy and then see if we're still friends with a fat smile on my face.

Post: #12

^^ I don't get it, do you want her? I'm all for banging chics in your social circle, but only if they throw themselves at you.

You should always be flirty with girls, either in our out of your friend group (to go off what blck wrote). So they should always know they can feel comfortable to fuck you if the occasion arises. I'd never overtly pursue a friend chic...unless I was looking for a girlfriend (which is clearly not the case).

Sex isn't nearly as momentous or black and white to women like it is to men. To women, sex is like breathing. It's just a part of life. It took me a while, but I found my post that I feel explains it well.

/thread-48403...pid1047402
(or read through some of WestIndianArchie's best posts)

I assume based on your posts you already know much of that, but I don't think it can be overstated.

Post: #13

(10-12-2015 09:49 AM)heavy Wrote:  ^^ I don't get it, do you want her? I'm all for banging chics in your social circle, but only if they throw themselves at you.

You should always be flirty with girls, either in our out of your friend group (to go off what blck wrote). So they should always know they can feel comfortable to fuck you if the occasion arises. I'd never overtly pursue a friend chic...unless I was looking for a girlfriend (which is clearly not the case).

Sex isn't nearly as momentous or black and white to women like it is to men. To women, sex is like breathing. It's just a part of life. It took me a while, but I found my post that I feel explains it well.

/thread-48403...pid1047402
(or read through some of WestIndianArchie's best posts)

I assume based on your posts you already know much of that, but I don't think it can be overstated.

I read your post Heavy and must say; you seem to have a very intimate knowledge of the "fairer sex". I think you're completely right about women being far better liars, manipulators etc. A few times in my life I've thought I had a girl wrapped around my finger, just to be played by her and essentially becoming an "orbiter". And this was well after reading up about game and the red pill. I'm just young and don't know what I want. Having sex with decent looking girls used to keep me satisfied but now I want something more... then I relapse into fucking some damaged broads and dislike myself even more for it.

I think I crave intimacy more than anything, but I just haven't found that. I'm certainly at a crossroads in terms of relationships and sex life.

Post: #14

OP why exactly do you approach this possible LTR girl very different than your usual hook ups?
I understand we will put in some extra effort etc.

Post: #15

(10-12-2015 10:29 AM)Svoboda Wrote:  OP why exactly do you approach this possible LTR girl very different than your usual hook ups?
I understand we will put in some extra effort etc.

Good question. On a purely anecdotal basis, I feel that my previous game style consisting of strong escalation, integrating sexual talk into convos etc was conducive only to a "certain" type of girl. She seems relatively conservative, but I don't doubt she has ridden a few cocks and insists on being courted in the traditional 1950s sense. Why would I pursue such a timid flower you may ask? Because she seems to illuminate this innocence and purity that I've missed in all of my previous encounters. Inb4 Mattius you're retarded, she playing you and probably views you as a beta provider. That's probably the case. But I've just found that for some strange reason and I can't pinpoint it, I usually only get lays or FWB situations. The girls I've been with have literally shown zero interest in turning the situation into a relationship and so I guess im taking a new approach.

Post: #16

Kind of.

The biggest mistake men make with having women friends, sometimes called "wingwomen", is becoming a guy women view as their girlfriend. A shoulder to cry on, someone to watch romcoms with, someone who they can talk about all the hot dick they're after from the guy on Tinder with all the tattoos. Usually the guy is willing to play this role for a few reasons...

- He's an effeminate man and prefers the company of women, because that's what he wants to be.
- He thinks this investment of time will get him laid

This doesn't help preselection, because the "wingwoman" doesn't actually have respect for him as a man. "Joe is such a nice guy! I'm sure he'll meet someone!" What that means is "Joe is a total beta bitch who I would never fuck, but I like that (s)he puts up with all my stupid bullshit."

At best, this gets you a token introduction to their fatty friends. There is a huge difference between having a wingwoman and being a beta orbiter.

On the other hand, once your game is strong, women will just like being around you. You're funny, arrogant, and "one of the popular kids." Often it's girls you're not interested in - too tall, too fat, too slutty, too masculine. If they're somewhat pretty, they make excellent wingmen. Women in the room will want to know who this guy is, surrounded by decent looking chicks, looking like he's having a great time.

The key is to be a man, and not become a woman. Don't sit on the phone with them for hours, don't watch romcoms, don't buy them shit, don't offer to do nice things or pick them up from the airport. Treat them just like you would treat a girl that you're banging. Short text messages, sporadic interactions, usually limited to logistics like "yo, im trying to drink tonight. lets go get demolished at pattys pub. bring lauren, shes cute." Make it clear that you're genuinely not sexually interested in them (without being a dick about it). The biggest problem you'll have is your wingwoman will eventually start to fall for you. Do not ever become friends with a female for the intent of banging her - she's either a bang, or a friend. But that's your decision, not hers.

Once you've got wingwoman game, you'll find your bangs go to the next level. It makes cold approaches easy when you're out with a group of cute girls, and it's clear you're not a beta orbiter.

In terms of inner game, you will soon learn how the sausage is made. It's staggering how often these girls fuck random guys of Tinder, Instagram, and Facebook. Many will have over 70 different sex partners in a year. They'll tell you exactly what they're thinking "I like Joe, but he's sort of a pussy. Todd with the tattoos, he knows how to fuck. I wish he weren't going to jail next month. Should I tell Joe we're not in an exclusive relationship? Nah, I don't want to hurt his feelings."

On a final note, women make horrible companions. They're overgrown children looking for cheap entertainment. Most are not capable of, or not interested in, meaningful and deep conversation. They lack any sense of loyalty, and will turn on you in a heartbeat. View these relationships for exactly what they are, and nothing more.

Post: #17

(10-12-2015 10:47 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  Kind of.

The biggest mistake men make with having women friends, sometimes called "wingwomen", is becoming a guy women view as their girlfriend. A shoulder to cry on, someone to watch romcoms with, someone who they can talk about all the hot dick they're after from the guy on Tinder with all the tattoos. Usually the guy is willing to play this role for a few reasons...

- He's an effeminate man and prefers the company of women, because that's what he wants to be.
- He thinks this investment of time will get him laid

This doesn't help preselection, because the "wingwoman" doesn't actually have respect for him as a man. "Joe is such a nice guy! I'm sure he'll meet someone!" What that means is "Joe is a total beta bitch who I would never fuck, but I like that (s)he puts up with all my stupid bullshit."

At best, this gets you a token introduction to their fatty friends. There is a huge difference between having a wingwoman and being a beta orbiter.

On the other hand, once your game is strong, women will just like being around you. You're funny, arrogant, and "one of the popular kids." Often it's girls you're not interested in - too tall, too fat, too slutty, too masculine. If they're somewhat pretty, they make excellent wingmen. Women in the room will want to know who this guy is, surrounded by decent looking chicks, looking like he's having a great time.

The key is to be a man, and not become a woman. Don't sit on the phone with them for hours, don't watch romcoms, don't buy them shit, don't offer to do nice things or pick them up from the airport. Treat them just like you would treat a girl that you're banging. Short text messages, sporadic interactions, usually limited to logistics like "yo, im trying to drink tonight. lets go get demolished at pattys pub. bring lauren, shes cute." Make it clear that you're genuinely not sexually interested in them (without being a dick about it). The biggest problem you'll have is your wingwoman will eventually start to fall for you. Do not ever become friends with a female for the intent of banging her - she's either a bang, or a friend. But that's your decision, not hers.

Once you've got wingwoman game, you'll find your bangs go to the next level. It makes cold approaches easy when you're out with a group of cute girls, and it's clear you're not a beta orbiter.

In terms of inner game, you will soon learn how the sausage is made. It's staggering how often these girls fuck random guys of Tinder, Instagram, and Facebook. Many will have over 70 different sex partners in a year. They'll tell you exactly what they're thinking "I like Joe, but he's sort of a pussy. Todd with the tattoos, he knows how to fuck. I wish he weren't going to jail next month. Should I tell Joe we're not in an exclusive relationship? Nah, I don't want to hurt his feelings."

On a final note, women make horrible companions. They're overgrown children looking for cheap entertainment. Most are not capable of, or not interested in, meaningful and deep conversation. They lack any sense of loyalty, and will turn on you in a heartbeat. View these relationships for exactly what they are, and nothing more.

You make a good point about having strong game and their potential use as a wingwomen once they actually respect you. I thought that the fact that I had fucked a few of her friends whom she stated I was "not their type at all I have no idea how you managed that", she would respect me as a man.
I'll take your advise and attempt to reframe the balance of power and let her know that the only reason we're friends is because she is of benefit to me and because I allow it.
Thanks mate

Post: #18

Something else to note...

Women are selfish. Way way way more selfish and self centered than men.

She'll want to be your wingwoman when it's convenient for her, and she's looking for dick. If you get a girlfriend, you lose any benefit to her. Every time I get into a mini LTR, all of my female wingwomen friends get kind of bitchy about it. Usually in a passive aggressive way -

Her: "I never see you anymore, Hank, I guess you are too busy with Suzy?"
Hank: [ignore]

Part of befriending women is accepting that they don't actually care about you, and you're only there to the extent it benefits them one way or another. They pull a lot of the same shit tests women you're banging pull, and often create exactly the same drama to get your attention. These "friendships" are rife with the same kind of drama sexual relationships are filled with. Jealousy, attention whoring, neediness, creating drama to get attention, unnecessary and uncalled for emotional responses to the dumbest shit, etc.

These problems become even more pronounced when you're one of the few alpha males in her life. She's getting pumped and dumped by the loser with all the tattoos who won't commit, while at the same time Joe Beta has taken her on like 15 dates and still hasn't gotten a kiss on the cheek. Suddenly you seem like a good option, and she's wondering why you're not into her. Is she not good enough for you? Has she hit the wall? Why do you like that one girl, and not her? It sends the hamster wheel into overdrive eventually. Once that wheel gets going, she will start to create the same type of drama your girlfriend would. You, being an alpha, completely ignore it and don't give a shit, which makes the wheel spin even faster.

Quite frankly, it's usually more of a hassle than it's worth keeping women anywhere other than an arm's length distance. At this juncture I have a few casual female friends who I drink with, but it's like twice a month.

Most women, as friends, girlfriends, or fuck buddies, detract more to your life than they add to it.

Post: #19

^^

Post: #20

My rule for "wing women" is this.


Two for one.



You need two wing chicks, NEVER one. And you have to be the only guy.


Think about this...a guy walks into a bar alone. Cool factor- neutral. (depending on his vibe)


A guy walks into a bar with one chick. Cool factor- slightly above neutral.


Two guys walk into a bar together. Cool factor- uncool.


Two guys walk into a bar with two girls. Cool factor- neutral.


Group of guys walk into a bar with one girl. Cool factor- very uncool.


Guy walks into a bar flanked by two hot chicks. Cool factor- Alpha as fuck.



It's better if you've banged them both at some point, and hopefully there will be no jealousy issues when you are inevitably hit on by other women at the venue. You also have to be the leader in this situation. Don't follow behind them, you should always be in front with them following you. That makes a huge difference, trust me.


This is just preselection on steroids. Just by making your entrance you've already removed all doubt that you're not a sexless loser, which will make spitting game that much easier...plus if the chicks you're rolling with are cool, they can help a lot more than some faggot wingman. Half the time, my guy wings try to cut in on my action anyway. Never a problem when you go with two for one.


Of course the drawback is finding girls who are cool enough to do this with, and they have to be hot. You can also use them as bait, or a bartering chip.

Post: #21

(10-12-2015 09:18 AM)Mattius Wrote:  Thanks, I'll take that on board. You're very right. Sometimes she'll say "you're like my bitch" and then I remind her that I've pumped three of her friends right under her nose in her house. But this doesn't seem to faze her. I definitely see the validity in your assertion that she wants me to want to fuck her. Whenever I'm drunk and we're out together and I'm being playful and touchy she eats it right up. When we're together she will come in close and then look at me in the eyes then laugh and pull away when I say something sexual. Additionally, she always asks me to do shit for her. Even though these things are by no means onerous, it just shows that she is trying to make me her bitch.

She calls you, and treats you like her bitch and you put up with that!?

Post: #22

(10-11-2015 08:55 PM)Mattius Wrote:  I have a female friend whom I get along with quite well, albeit her conversational topics are largely centred around how she can best get hot dick.

Wait...I'm confuddled...You start off by saying most her conversations are about show "she can best get hot dick".

(10-12-2015 10:41 AM)Mattius Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 10:29 AM)Svoboda Wrote:  OP why exactly do you approach this possible LTR girl very different than your usual hook ups?
I understand we will put in some extra effort etc.

Good question. On a purely anecdotal basis, I feel that my previous game style consisting of strong escalation, integrating sexual talk into convos etc was conducive only to a "certain" type of girl. She seems relatively conservative, but I don't doubt she has ridden a few cocks and insists on being courted in the traditional 1950s sense. Why would I pursue such a timid flower you may ask? Because she seems to illuminate this innocence and purity that I've missed in all of my previous encounters. Inb4 Mattius you're retarded, she playing you and probably views you as a beta provider. That's probably the case. But I've just found that for some strange reason and I can't pinpoint it, I usually only get lays or FWB situations. The girls I've been with have literally shown zero interest in turning the situation into a relationship and so I guess im taking a new approach.

Then she's a "relatively conservative" and "timid flower" that "illuminates this innocence".

1. Stop pedestalizing her (even a little bit) ALL women, just like all men are fundamentally animals with the urge to fuck. Until you see this objectively you wont get past this kind of trap

2. Possibly one reason the girls you bang end up not wanting a relationship afterwards is they sense that you do and that is pushing them away. Nothing repulses a chick more than a guy that "needs" them

Post: #23

Orginal poster stop putting her on a pedestal. Stop worrying about her. Stop hanging out with her because you are being an orbiter. She is not adding any value to your life so move on.

If you aren't fucking her then you are being a Time Hoe.

Post: #24

(10-12-2015 01:44 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(10-11-2015 08:55 PM)Mattius Wrote:  I have a female friend whom I get along with quite well, albeit her conversational topics are largely centred around how she can best get hot dick.

Wait...I'm confuddled...You start off by saying most her conversations are about show "she can best get hot dick".

(10-12-2015 10:41 AM)Mattius Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 10:29 AM)Svoboda Wrote:  OP why exactly do you approach this possible LTR girl very different than your usual hook ups?
I understand we will put in some extra effort etc.

Good question. On a purely anecdotal basis, I feel that my previous game style consisting of strong escalation, integrating sexual talk into convos etc was conducive only to a "certain" type of girl. She seems relatively conservative, but I don't doubt she has ridden a few cocks and insists on being courted in the traditional 1950s sense. Why would I pursue such a timid flower you may ask? Because she seems to illuminate this innocence and purity that I've missed in all of my previous encounters. Inb4 Mattius you're retarded, she playing you and probably views you as a beta provider. That's probably the case. But I've just found that for some strange reason and I can't pinpoint it, I usually only get lays or FWB situations. The girls I've been with have literally shown zero interest in turning the situation into a relationship and so I guess im taking a new approach.

Then she's a "relatively conservative" and "timid flower" that "illuminates this innocence".

1. Stop pedestalizing her (even a little bit) ALL women, just like all men are fundamentally animals with the urge to fuck. Until you see this objectively you wont get past this kind of trap

2. Possibly one reason the girls you bang end up not wanting a relationship afterwards is they sense that you do and that is pushing them away. Nothing repulses a chick more than a guy that "needs" them

I believe OP is talking about 2 different women there. One being his "wingwoman" and the other the one he wants a LTR with.

I also suspect this wingwoman might be part of the reason why OP mostly ends up fucking women that won't want a LTR with him (which depending what you look for might not be a bad thing). She is probably actively influencing the outsome, if not actively at least her existence as being your wingwoman prevents LTR expectations from women. I wouldn't be surprised if her friends (that you hooked up with) see you as being her's.
Maybe the real question is: how much does this wingwomen really help you?

Post: #25

Yo if she's sabotaging you she's not a real wingwoman.

Wingwomen help guys get pussy by acting as preselection pawns then fucking off when it's appropriate, that's what they do.

EDIT: I just saw the part where she called you her bitch. I'd lose anyone who said that to me with the quickness fam.