Post: #1

From my experience, it seems that guys tend to enjoy considerable self-satisfaction and sense of accomplishment by fixing, building and maintaining things on their own.

Likely there is some cultural and socialization aspects concerning the answer, yet over the years (30 years or more since my leaving high school), some of these self-sufficiency expectations have changed in society with various forms of automation and the value that has been given to the employment of services, communications and office skills – as opposed to making or repairing things.

In my case, I was brought up in a rural area and rural living and encouraged to be self-sufficient; however, when I moved away from my home area, after high school, I became more and more detached from self-help type practices because I entered into a world that was valuing, more and more, communications and documentations, and in essence services and office work.

When I was in middle school and highschool, I found value in the trades and in the making, creation, servicing and maintenance of a variety of things. I think that my initial inclinations and interests were to go into areas that would employ engineering kinds of skills; however, in high school, I was NOT really educated in what is an engineer nor recognizing the variety of differences in skilled work or skilled work that required some theoretical training. So because of some of my limitations in perspective, I did NOT really understand the difference theoretical or practical aspects of an engineer with a 4 year degree or more as compared with an engineering trained technician that may have less than 2 years of post high school education / training.

While I was in middle and high school, I worked with my uncles to repair, maintain and build buildings, and even carrying out a variety of repair and maintenance work that involving the practices of family-owned farming and ranching practices.

When I was 12 years old, one of my uncles took me under his wing in order to assist him in carrying out a variety of duties in his auto mechanic’s shop. Sometimes my work in the autoshop that continued while I was in highschool involved actual mechanical repairs and maintenance of automobiles or farm equipment; however, frequently I was assigned various grunt tasks or running a variety of errands related to his small business operation.

Even though auto mechanic’s work could be very grungy, I felt some satisfaction when carrying out work that resulted in concrete fixing and maintenance of things.

Over the past 30+ years, I have held a large number of jobs, and I have engaged in a variety of activities involving providing services, ancillary services and even carrying out office work.

NONETHELESS, over the years, from time to time, I have also incorporated a variety of self-help skills into my life.. so if my car broke down, I might attempt to fix it myself. If I needed to change some building set-ups, I may install equipment or facilities on my own.

In that regard, when the work requires new skills or specialty tools, it is NOT always clear whether it would be better to employ some assistance or the expertise of someone trained in the trade or to attempt to carry out the self-help work myself. There remain only so many hours in any given day, so sometimes the time/money balancing factor seems to justify that my time might be better spent in other activities, rather than attempting some kind of do-it-yourself building, maintenance or repair.

I am curious to hear from other guys about their perceptions as applied to their own practices regarding self-help activities that may bring them self-satisfaction. Do guys get more satisfaction in carrying out the work themselves, consulting with “experts” or getting a specialist to carry out work for them?

Post: #2

I would rather spend my time thinking of ways to make more money than figuring out ways to be cheaper by doing it myself.

I'll do whatever it takes to not deal with day-to-day annoyances by paying for services.

My solution:
Step 1. Buy less crap--The less you have, the less that can break
Step 2. Make more money
Step 3. Pay for anything that requires too much time to figure out/do myself

Post: #3

I like doing shit even if the whole time is money stuff is thrown in.

I enjoy the mental challenge and the learning involved.

I especially like McGuyvering shit.

When faced with an obstacle, I always ask, what am I trying to achieve and what do I need to get that done.

It will create thoughts like "I need something that is size that can fit here and do this" and my mind for some reason can think of random things around my place/environment that maybe were not designed for that purpose but work.

I know it is a small example.

But then there are times, when I am way outside my paygrade and after flailing, I'll outsource. Can't be stupid about it forever.

Post: #4

If I worked at McDonalds 40 hours a week I think I would enjoy coming home and problem solving/tinkering with things. It would stimulate my brain vs doing the repetitive work I did all day long.

My job requires me to fix/create solutions all day. When I go home, everything better work or it's going in the trash.

Post: #5

The problem is that the counterparty is often incompetent. So you have to know enough to not get scammed or pay good money for little actual work.

Australia is rife with this. If you want to add 3 foot steps onto the side of a veranda, you'll be quoted 3 grand and they won't budge on that. A mechanic also once recommend that I replace a 'worn' clutch for a hefty fee, which I declined saying 'give it a bit longer'. 5 years later it's still fine.

Also, specific to self-improvement, you can't rely on experts because you need an expert to rate people as experts. You have to be clued in yourself before you can even think about hiring anyone else for specifics.

Post: #6

I'm guilty of throwing money at problems and tasks I could easily do for myself.

Ultimately it boils down to being a) very lazy and b) being able to make money easily.

In fact, necessity is my greatest motivator.

When I stop spending money, I stop the hustle. It's not good really.

I need to figure this out.

Post: #7

(09-06-2015 03:57 AM)Moreless Wrote:  I would rather spend my time thinking of ways to make more money than figuring out ways to be cheaper by doing it myself.

This is a decent highlighting of one of the major trade offs of time/money and utilization of skills. Surely, the considerations are going to play out differently for each guy, especially considering his skills and his ability to make money using specialized in one area (rather than general skills that may be applied in a lot of other areas in which he may not specialize).

At the same time, I believe that the contemplation is NOT ONLY about saving money, but a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment that comes from taking care of some matters yourself; however, I understand that one of the philosophies of becoming rich is finding ways to live within your means, so sometimes saving money can have a real big payoff in order to potentially squirrel away those additional savings.

(09-06-2015 03:57 AM)Moreless Wrote:  I'll do whatever it takes to not deal with day-to-day annoyances by paying for services.

I have certainly gone through these kinds of phases in which I have way too little time and relatively more money, which can be one of the positive results in knowing when to delegate. Likely, each of us needs to identify these points for ourselves, and possibly, a guy may get into this kind of thinking for a long time in which he never really learns certain skills (or wants to ) because he has chosen to spend his time in different ways that he finds to be more fulfilling, or even money making that causes him NOT to have to perform some of the drudgery work that may come from a self-help perspective.

(09-06-2015 03:57 AM)Moreless Wrote:  My solution:
Step 1. Buy less crap--The less you have, the less that can break
Step 2. Make more money
Step 3. Pay for anything that requires too much time to figure out/do myself

Sure, those are all potential solutions and life choices, and I can definitely understand some of the trade offs in spending time earning, for example, $50 to $100 an hour and paying someone else $10 an hour to perform the drudgery task(s).

I suggest, nonetheless, that that kind of thinking may NOT play in all circumstances, and there may still be situation in which an accountant may prefer to employ some of his time doing lawyer type work because he does NOT want to pay the lawyer and he wants to get a better grasp of the problem in front of him, even though it could take him 30 hours away from money making accounting activities to perform the lawyer work that the trained attorney could perform in 2 hours.

Post: #8

(09-06-2015 04:02 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  I like doing shit even if the whole time is money stuff is thrown in.

I enjoy the mental challenge and the learning involved.

I believe that you are capturing a bit of the idea that I am trying to get at, regarding the mental challenge and the sense of satisfaction.... and deciding whether or NOT to act in a certain direction does NOT seem to be a strict money calculation - although it is possible that guys can consider matters with strict money calculations.... which are also plausible and acceptable ways to live (but has NOT been my personal style).

(09-06-2015 04:02 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  I especially like McGuyvering shit.

When faced with an obstacle, I always ask, what am I trying to achieve and what do I need to get that done.

It will create thoughts like "I need something that is size that can fit here and do this" and my mind for some reason can think of random things around my place/environment that maybe were not designed for that purpose but work.

Actually, quite a few tasks can be like that the first time that a guy decides to take it on. Maybe he has a broken gas heating unit, and historically, he always called the gas heating unit specialist, because he thought that he did NOT have enough time and patience to fix such unit (without the risk of blowing up the whole house or neighborhood). Then one day, the guy says,"fuck it!!! let me try fixing this unit myself. What do I need exactly, and how much time? etc etc etc"

(09-06-2015 04:02 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  I know it is a small example.

I think it is a great example, because probably each of us could find ways to make the dreary seem exciting, as long as we may have the right perspective and we are ready, willing and able for the challenge of the project.

(09-06-2015 04:02 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  But then there are times, when I am way outside my paygrade and after flailing, I'll outsource. Can't be stupid about it forever.

This has happened to me, too, and sometimes we recognize the scenario and sometime we do NOT.

I recall one time in about 2008, I was driving a Toyota Celica, maybe about 1996 model with around 150,000 miles on it, and surely the car had better days. I recall that I kept getting problems with radiator leakage, and I had performed a variety of self-help measures.

Actually, I am fairly competent when it comes to some of these kinds of car repair matters, but somehow this repair went haywire on me. I attempted several bandaid fixes that worked temporarily, and one day after the umpteenth failure, I decided that I was going to totally replace the radiator. I had some issues, and it took me most of the day because of some of the layout matters and a few SNAFUs; however, in the end, I accomplished replacing the radiator.. and I was so proud of myself, even though I screwed up a whole day in the process. I recall that something else went wrong with that repair, that caused the car to overheat - again, and the car never really run the same after that last overheating incident.... and anyhow it was an example of a botched fix that initially, I thought had turned out successful - but ended up being beyond my then expertise - even when I was pretty competent with those kinds of things (I was just so much out of practice).

Post: #9

(09-06-2015 04:16 AM)Moreless Wrote:  If I worked at McDonalds 40 hours a week I think I would enjoy coming home and problem solving/tinkering with things. It would stimulate my brain vs doing the repetitive work I did all day long.

My job requires me to fix/create solutions all day. When I go home, everything better work or it's going in the trash.

I think that is a decent point. If guy has challenging work - or even the work of an engineer who may be problem solving and repairing and challenged on a daily basis, and he may want some variety and NOT want to perform repair and/or trouble shooting work during his personal time.

Post: #10

(09-06-2015 04:55 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  The problem is that the counterparty is often incompetent. So you have to know enough to not get scammed or pay good money for little actual work.

Australia is rife with this. If you want to add 3 foot steps onto the side of a veranda, you'll be quoted 3 grand and they won't budge on that. A mechanic also once recommend that I replace a 'worn' clutch for a hefty fee, which I declined saying 'give it a bit longer'. 5 years later it's still fine.

Also, specific to self-improvement, you can't rely on experts because you need an expert to rate people as experts. You have to be clued in yourself before you can even think about hiring anyone else for specifics.

Actually, we see these kinds of snake oil scare tactics all the time, whether it is in the autorepair industry or legal work or accounting or housing construction.

Even though we may NOT need to possess total competence in order to perform the work ourselves, we may need sufficient skills and/or experience to either supervise the work or to call the bluff when we are receiving misinformation or being scammed or even being taken to the cleaners for much more than what would be reasonable.

Post: #11

Below is my recent experience of a dirty and grimy self-help leading to sense of self-satisfaction:



Discovered sink blockage:



About a week ago when I arrived at my apartment, after more than a week of being away, I noticed my kitchen sinks were less than functional. The water flow was blocked.



The two kitchen sinks were In fact filled with putrid water that did NOT look nor smell too clean. My two current subleasees (roommates) had actually been using the sinks for over a week without proper drainage. Those little fucks.

Neither had mentioned any problem to me. NONETHELESS, I could see that neither of them had been using the sink in recent days because there were a few dishes pilled up on the side, and likely each of them was ignoring the situation hoping for it to miraculously go away, or more likely waiting for me to return to address the matter.



The problem was similar to a maintenance issue during my three-week trip to Vietnam in February, when one of my roommates (I had ONLY one roommate at that time) sent me a text pointing out that the kitchen light was NOT working. I texted him asking whether he had tried changing the bulb. Radio silence!!!! Three weeks later, when I returned from my trip, I found that my roommate had brought a portable lamp into the kitchen from his bedroom, and he had placed it on the counter-top. He was using that lamp and taken up the space of the countertop to light the room. Seemed a little ridiculous, and I immediately looked into the situation by changing the bulb… Viola!!! fixed.

Even though this water blockage problem was more complicated than the changing of a burned out lightbulb, I considered that frequently subleasees do NOT want to take responsibility over much of anything in their relationship with the functionality of the apartment… I’m like their maintenance man… those fuckers.

Anyhow, I cannot really complain my way into my roommates becoming more responsible, instead, I need to consider my options. I thought that I should attempt easier solutions first, and my first try at blockage removal was to vigorously plunge one of the sinks for about 15 minutes, and to run the garbage disposaler, while I was plunging away… I was working up a sweat and starting to get a little worried that I was going to slip, but NO progress.


Actually, because of the garbage disposaler, I could only plunge one of the two sinks. My effort filled plunging caused sweat and heavy breathing, but no apparent evidence of potential success at relieving them there pipes. It appeared ONLY that possibly, I could injure myself if I were to continue with such attempts at plunging with such focus and attention… .. my violence was my psychological attempt at getting out of having to perform further work.



What next, what next? Considering what to do:


I considered that at that particular point, 8:30 in the evening, I had a couple of practical options: 1) I could call the landlady, which would likely cause her to call a plumber the next day or some unknown time within the upcoming few days, and also may entail her lecturing me about what I should NOT be placing in the sink (without her really knowing what I place or don’t place in the sink) or 2) I could personally make further attempts at resolving the waterflow issue by taking apart the pipes below the sink.



I continued looking at each of the sinks filled with putrid smelling water with the various floating slimy and dotted waste of the past week and likely more. It smelled and looked like two sinks full of a runny watery shit, which did NOT cause me inspiration regarding the second path.

Upon further reflection, I really did NOT want to deal with the landlady, and I did NOT feel that I should spend money on a plumber…. Accordingly, I decided WTF… let me, give it a shot… …

Furthermore, a thought that a resolution of this issue does have the potential to make me feel good about myself if I am able to fix something that’s within my abilities. Maybe I could learn a little bit about plumbing through this process, too? I didn’t recall ever taking apart a sink, and certainly, I had NOT taken apart any sink in recent years. Actually, in recent years – more than 15 years, I had been involved in a lot of business type matters that did NOT generally require getting dirty. Yes, from time to time, I did have some dirty projects that came up, but frequently, I would contract out those kinds of duties….. Yet, it looked possible to attempt this project with a minimal number of tools. It appear, at least the pipes under the sink were the kind that a guy could disassemble without any tools, except a strong grip to unscrew one from the other, and there were several pieces.

My First attempt:

I got a bucket, some towels, and I cleaned out the under the sink area. Then, I disassembled the various pipes below the sink, including two pipes coming down from each of the sinks and the pipes leading out of the disposaler. There was also a U shape pipe, that seems part of any sink apparatus and several inches of the horizontal portion of the pipe that lead further towards the bathroom of one of the subtenants. I decided to start with just the portion under the sink.

There were quite a few parts that came apart and contained slimy and chunky and not so chunky gunk contained therein. As soon as I disassembled, the water flowed under the sink, and I captured with the bucket, except really the bucket was NOT big enough, so I had to engage in a variety of gymnastics and improvisation and ultimately a lot of water and gunk flowed freely in the area. In clearing these pipes, I had used a wired clothes hanger to poke through various more distal parts of the pipe, and I did NOT want to take apart those more distal areas, and I had obtained 3-4 handfulls of solid grime from the pipes under the sink. Accordingly, I thought that I had cleared whatever blockage that there could have been.



I reassembled the multiple under the sink pipes while the quasi-shit continued to get all over everything and flow around the floor and on my clothes, hair and body. After getting the pipes back together and apparently functioning without leaks, when I turned on the water, the blockage was NOT resolved. .. was still there… FUCK!!!!!!!!!!

Again, I vigorously plunged for about 5-10 minutes hoping that I would be able to force my way through any remaining blockage that could exist.. … I did NOT want to do any more work; however,.. NO success.

I pondered.. what should I do? This is turning out to be NOT so easy… and really I should have already cleared the pipes, NO? Maybe, I should Call landlady? NO, NO I did NOT want to deal with her… she can be a real bitch… .. My other option was to persist with this self-imposed shit project.

I stared more into the sinks, and decided WTF… the most logical conclusion is to let me continue… I cannot get deterred by a lack of success on the first effort.. Furthermore, I had some success already. I had already taken apart several pipes, and I had figured out how to put those pipes back together without having a leak, and I had NOT broken any of the piping apparatus or anything like that. I recall that in my past, when I had done some projects, they ended in broken parts, so in fact I was doing pretty well so far, with NO broken parts… as far as I could tell..

At that point, I pondered over how to proceed, and I recognized that there could still be some area in the more distal horizontal piping in which I could make further attempts at unclogging. Accordingly, I thought that I could attempt to run the wire further into the horizontal pipe area going towards the bathroom. So far, I had spent about an hour on the project, and I shouldn’t give up, so easily.

My Second unclogging attempt:

In my second disassembling, I did NOT have to disassemble every pipe as I had done the first time, because I had cleared those pipes. Therefore, I began by focusing on the distal pipe. I actually ran the wired clothes’ hanger its full length through the horizontal section of the more distal pipe, which if you ever measured the length of an unraveled wired clothes’ hanger, it measures about 3 feet.



I ran through the clothes hanger several times… Moving the clothes’ hanger through the pipe felt as if it had penetrated and broken up several additional blockages – because at first it was difficult to move the hanger back and forth in the pipe, and it became easier and easier to move, which to me meant, a good chance that no more pipe blockages. In that regard, I removed an additional 3-4 handfuls of hard and soft goo.

This surely was a hands-on job because there was NO real efficient way to handle and remove gunk, except by hand. Dirty and stinky.

Again, I became fairly confident that I had resolved the blockage issue and sufficiently broken up large sections of gunk contained in them there pipes. I mean really we had been using the pipes for years and years, and some of the goo and chucks that I had been removing had been real solidly built up. That must have been it. NO more blockage.



Surely I am done!!!.... Again, I reassembled the pipes (quicker this time), and ran water through them, and GO FIGURE !!!!!!!!! again FUCK!!!!!! I was compelled to vigorously plunge because of the continued and unresolved blockage.

By that time, I had spent more than 90 minutes with the two disassemblings, and really the water did NOT seem to be moving down the drain at all. How could that be? There appeared to be NO meaningful signs of progress, because I plunged and the water did NOT move.. just sat there. It did NOT swirl or anything, and no noises of flow NOR signs of movement..

6-8 handfuls of solid and semi-solid gunk removed, plus running the hanger through what appeared to be the whole pipe… still, STAGNANT!!!!. NOTHING >>> SMELL, and it actually looked worse than from when I started. NOT only were both of the sinks clogged, but the contents of the emptied cabinets were spread all over the kitchen, and water, slime, particles and gunk were everywhere including on me. I was beginning to get itchy from the wetness of my clothes.. I was both hot from the work and cold from the dampness at the same time… .

I looked at the two sinks of water and I pondered again… Should I just call the landlady, and give up? Am I in over my head? Am I out of my league…. Fuck!!! What to do? Maybe she is NOT such a bitch? I mean she has helped on some issues in the past? I thought that when I had been tracing the route of them there pipes, I saw that they had gone through the side cabinet area, and they appeared to disappear into the wall in the area that would be at the front end of the subtenant’s tub. Accordingly, there did appear to be one more area of horizontal pipes in which I could further disassemble. I thought that those horizontal pipes were a bad idea for kitchen drain pipes.. Why wouldn’t the drainage pipes go straight down from the sinks, rather than meandering 3-4 feet sideways, under the side countertops. Who designed this drainage system? Maybe I am learning more about plumbing and design of pipes than I wanted to know?

I mentally said to self without actually saying anything: “self, you have come this far, there seems to be a way to still be possible for you to resolve this shitty matter. Are you capable of continuing?”

Self answered: “I don’t know, I don’t know… I suppose that I could do it” Once that resolution was coming then self said, with more confidence: “Let’s do it” (even though it was just me, and there was NO “let’s” involved). I reiterated to self: “WTF.. let me continue with this dirty, shitty project.”



Third unclog attempt, charm?:



In my third disassembling, I focused on the distal portion of the horizontal pipe, and I actually began to feel as if I was getting a better grasp at disassembling sewage pipes, and maybe I had missed a calling in life?... hahahaha.. NOT really… even though I did think about the life of a plumber for a moment. I thought that they probably have better equipment which makes it easier for them not to have so much sewage on them. I'm learning, I'm learning.

Anyhow, this quasi volunteer little shit project was fucking dirty and fucking stinky and I was becoming itchy by being so penetrated by moisture and sprinklings of gooey and dirt particles.

I had caused sewage all over the kitchen and all over me. I thought, wow, there could be various diseases festering in these pipes with that stagnant water contained in areas that never dry up and dark and dingy.. Gotta be many micro- organisms in there? No?

This kind of plumbing work seems potentially hazardous to one’s health. Some of those chunks of sewage within the pipes could date to before my occupancy of the apartment (which was 14 years)….

The punchline is that there was a "happy ending," no not that kind, and the third time was the charm, as the saying goes. In that last disassembly, I had relieved the pipes of an additional 4-5 handfulls of hardened and not so hardened sewage particles. The additional horizontal area of pipe that was under the side cabinets was disassembled and reassembled by me, and it yielded additional blockage removal. I needed different tools for those horizontal pipes, and it was a little more difficult to access those pipes, but nonetheless SUCCESS!!!!!!

After that third blockage removal in which additional large chunks flowed out of both sides of the horizontal pipe, I could thereafter successfully run the wire hanger to the right (towards the sink) and to the left (towards the bathroom), which adding the two segments together seemed to add up to a little more than the 3 feet of hanger wire (maybe 4 feet of cleared pipes). In that last effort, I thought that if I had NOT relieved the blockage by then, then truly I had exhausted most of what would have been within my competence to accomplish without some kinds of specialty tools and cutting the wall open or something more dramatic in order to access the more distal drainage of pipes.

In the three disassemblings, I had removed so much gunk that seemed to cover the whole span of more than 5 feet of pipe.

In the end, after a few hours of diddle daddling, and at least an additional hour of cleaning up, I resolved my mission of self-sufficiency. NO need to call the whiney bitch of a landlady nor any costly plumber.

There can be a certain sense of accomplishment when a guy is able to fix some life necessity without breaking it further, even if the job comes with a little bit of extra time and grime, smell and potential for diseases, then so be it.

Actually the next day , my throat was a little itchy, and I thought that I maybe I had contracted something… yet now, nearly a week has passed, and I can proclaim to my credit: ALL IS CLEAR!!!

Post: #12

Jayguan, you know some Draino and the puncturing stick that comes with some of the packages would have solved that problem mighty fast

A man should know how to do basic car repair, fix his computer, and be savvy enough around basic tools. It's hilarious seeing how many clueless folks there are.

Post: #13

(09-14-2015 03:55 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  A man should know how to do basic car repair, fix his computer, and be savvy enough around basic tools. It's hilarious seeing how many clueless folks there are.

Why though and to what extent?

I don't care how my computer works. I certainly am not going to spend days/weeks learning about it on the off chance it goes wrong and I have to fix it.

Do I have to retrain myself every few years for the changes in technology? I've had my Macbook for 4 years and not a single thing has gone wrong with it.

Training myself to repair it would just be a complete waste of time I could spend doing other things that either actually interest me or could make me money.

My car is massively complicated and always under warranty. Aside from changing a tyre at the roadside, what benefit is there to me to learn anything about it whatsoever? If something goes wrong, the assist folk will be there within an hour. I'd rather gamble that hour of my life that might happen for the hours learning how it works.

Basic tools yeah, putting a screw in a wall or something, sure. Anything more complicated? No thanks. My time is worth more than a random handy man's so it makes no sense to swap my labour for his economically.

Post: #14

Depends on your style of learning. I spent 4 years at University learning from professionals and my knowledge was no greater than when I started. I spend 6 months working on my own project and my industry knowledge is higher than those who taught me.

My field was Film BTW. Sometimes it just depends on how you process information. If you're anything like me, you have to break it down and learn the rules by creating your own. Others can listen to someone talk for 45 minutes, process all the information and the perform exactly as they have been taught.

Post: #15

If it's something I'm interested in I will learn the skills.

If it's something I don't care for I will pay someone else.

Post: #16

(09-14-2015 04:10 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 03:55 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  A man should know how to do basic car repair, fix his computer, and be savvy enough around basic tools. It's hilarious seeing how many clueless folks there are.

Why though and to what extent?

I don't care how my computer works. I certainly am not going to spend days/weeks learning about it on the off chance it goes wrong and I have to fix it.

Do I have to retrain myself every few years for the changes in technology? I've had my Macbook for 4 years and not a single thing has gone wrong with it.

Training myself to repair it would just be a complete waste of time I could spend doing other things that either actually interest me or could make me money.

My car is massively complicated and always under warranty. Aside from changing a tyre at the roadside, what benefit is there to me to learn anything about it whatsoever? If something goes wrong, the assist folk will be there within an hour. I'd rather gamble that hour of my life that might happen for the hours learning how it works.

Basic tools yeah, putting a screw in a wall or something, sure. Anything more complicated? No thanks. My time is worth more than a random handy man's so it makes no sense to swap my labour for his economically.

Well, the self satisfaction of being able to do it yourself anytime anyplace. Even been stranded on the side of the road or had something catastrophic happen to your car but you felt completely helpless because you didn't know what was going on? When a mechanic sees a guy who looks completely bewildered he sees dollars or in your case pound signs in his eyes.

You can also get the added benefit of not getting screwed over by a mechanic because you know exactly what's wrong and can tell him what to do. I've had dealers try to up-sell me many many times on repairs that were at best unnecessary and at worst frivolous.

I don't buy new cars or any cars on credit. Why foolishly spend $20-30k on something that will depreciate in value? Even worse, open a line of credit for such a beast. I pay cash for my vehicles, fix them as they fall apart, and send it to a mechanic when I need something like a press or weld done.

I even went so far as to remove a quarter panel that was dented and gave it to my auto body guy for repair. A $1200 repair became $250 because he didn't have to sit around trying to figure out how to remove it.

Technology wise, there aren't many critical differences as well. The fundamentals you learn on say a mid 80s diesel Merc aren't that critically different than a 2005 Saab. Internal combustion engines haven't changed much beyond added electronics for efficiency which once you get the proper tools make troubleshooting vehicles significantly easier. There's a learning curve with everything, but nothing is ever radically re-designed from the past. Once you get the factory service manual for your vehicle any repair becomes as simple as following step by step directions.

Changing your oil also gives you the opportunity to crawl under your car to really see the belly of the beast. You can catch things like rust, ailing suspension, and steering linkage problems before they leave you stranded or worse kill you.

Your Macbook Pro while it may be 4 years old, should at least be running the latest version of OSX (10.10). You should be comfortable knowing how to back up, install programs, and if something happens wipe the sucker and reinstall everything. Taking it to the Geeksquad is a great way to have some nitwit lock you out of your system ensuring you have to come back. I hope you have a tech savvy relative. If you do, make sure you reimburse him for his time.

Protip: If you know how to use Google, you can fix pretty much anything. I got my start fixing computers because I knew to put an error message in "quotations" into google. When my car started having problems, I searched Google and came to an automotive enthusiasts site that helped explain pretty much any question and more for my particular vehicle.

Post: #17

(09-14-2015 05:58 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 04:10 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 03:55 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  A man should know how to do basic car repair, fix his computer, and be savvy enough around basic tools. It's hilarious seeing how many clueless folks there are.

Why though and to what extent?

I don't care how my computer works. I certainly am not going to spend days/weeks learning about it on the off chance it goes wrong and I have to fix it.

Do I have to retrain myself every few years for the changes in technology? I've had my Macbook for 4 years and not a single thing has gone wrong with it.

Training myself to repair it would just be a complete waste of time I could spend doing other things that either actually interest me or could make me money.

My car is massively complicated and always under warranty. Aside from changing a tyre at the roadside, what benefit is there to me to learn anything about it whatsoever? If something goes wrong, the assist folk will be there within an hour. I'd rather gamble that hour of my life that might happen for the hours learning how it works.

Basic tools yeah, putting a screw in a wall or something, sure. Anything more complicated? No thanks. My time is worth more than a random handy man's so it makes no sense to swap my labour for his economically.

Well, the self satisfaction of being able to do it yourself anytime anyplace. Even been stranded on the side of the road or had something catastrophic happen to your car but you felt completely helpless because you didn't know what was going on? When a mechanic sees a guy who looks completely bewildered he sees dollars or in your case pound signs in his eyes.

You can also get the added benefit of not getting screwed over by a mechanic because you know exactly what's wrong and can tell him what to do. I've had dealers try to up-sell me many many times on repairs that were at best unnecessary and at worst frivolous.

I don't buy new cars or any cars on credit. Why foolishly spend $20-30k on something that will depreciate in value? Even worse, open a line of credit for such a beast. I pay cash for my vehicles, fix them as they fall apart, and send it to a mechanic when I need something like a press or weld done.

I even went so far as to remove a quarter panel that was dented and gave it to my auto body guy for repair. A $1200 repair became $250 because he didn't have to sit around trying to figure out how to remove it.

Technology wise, there aren't many critical differences as well. The fundamentals you learn on say a mid 80s diesel Merc aren't that critically different than a 2005 Saab. Internal combustion engines haven't changed much beyond added electronics for efficiency which once you get the proper tools make troubleshooting vehicles significantly easier. There's a learning curve with everything, but nothing is ever radically re-designed from the past. Once you get the factory service manual for your vehicle any repair becomes as simple as following step by step directions.

Changing your oil also gives you the opportunity to crawl under your car to really see the belly of the beast. You can catch things like rust, ailing suspension, and steering linkage problems before they leave you stranded or worse kill you.

Your Macbook Pro while it may be 4 years old, should at least be running the latest version of OSX (10.10). You should be comfortable knowing how to back up, install programs, and if something happens wipe the sucker and reinstall everything. Taking it to the Geeksquad is a great way to have some nitwit lock you out of your system ensuring you have to come back. I hope you have a tech savvy relative. If you do, make sure you reimburse him for his time.

Protip: If you know how to use Google, you can fix pretty much anything. I got my start fixing computers because I knew to put an error message in "quotations" into google. When my car started having problems, I searched Google and came to an automotive enthusiasts site that helped explain pretty much any question and more for my particular vehicle.

Agree.

Part of being a man is having dominion over the natural world. This includes current and past technology.

Buy a bag of nails and a length of 2x4 then hammer the nails in straight.

Don't be like this guy (NZs current prime minister).
He's a good PM though.

edit: My old man can't cut down any trees at home as they're all full of 6 inch nails

Post: #18

(09-14-2015 06:24 AM)Sooth Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 05:58 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 04:10 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 03:55 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  A man should know how to do basic car repair, fix his computer, and be savvy enough around basic tools. It's hilarious seeing how many clueless folks there are.

Why though and to what extent?

I don't care how my computer works. I certainly am not going to spend days/weeks learning about it on the off chance it goes wrong and I have to fix it.

Do I have to retrain myself every few years for the changes in technology? I've had my Macbook for 4 years and not a single thing has gone wrong with it.

Training myself to repair it would just be a complete waste of time I could spend doing other things that either actually interest me or could make me money.

My car is massively complicated and always under warranty. Aside from changing a tyre at the roadside, what benefit is there to me to learn anything about it whatsoever? If something goes wrong, the assist folk will be there within an hour. I'd rather gamble that hour of my life that might happen for the hours learning how it works.

Basic tools yeah, putting a screw in a wall or something, sure. Anything more complicated? No thanks. My time is worth more than a random handy man's so it makes no sense to swap my labour for his economically.

Well, the self satisfaction of being able to do it yourself anytime anyplace. Even been stranded on the side of the road or had something catastrophic happen to your car but you felt completely helpless because you didn't know what was going on? When a mechanic sees a guy who looks completely bewildered he sees dollars or in your case pound signs in his eyes.

You can also get the added benefit of not getting screwed over by a mechanic because you know exactly what's wrong and can tell him what to do. I've had dealers try to up-sell me many many times on repairs that were at best unnecessary and at worst frivolous.

I don't buy new cars or any cars on credit. Why foolishly spend $20-30k on something that will depreciate in value? Even worse, open a line of credit for such a beast. I pay cash for my vehicles, fix them as they fall apart, and send it to a mechanic when I need something like a press or weld done.

I even went so far as to remove a quarter panel that was dented and gave it to my auto body guy for repair. A $1200 repair became $250 because he didn't have to sit around trying to figure out how to remove it.

Technology wise, there aren't many critical differences as well. The fundamentals you learn on say a mid 80s diesel Merc aren't that critically different than a 2005 Saab. Internal combustion engines haven't changed much beyond added electronics for efficiency which once you get the proper tools make troubleshooting vehicles significantly easier. There's a learning curve with everything, but nothing is ever radically re-designed from the past. Once you get the factory service manual for your vehicle any repair becomes as simple as following step by step directions.

Changing your oil also gives you the opportunity to crawl under your car to really see the belly of the beast. You can catch things like rust, ailing suspension, and steering linkage problems before they leave you stranded or worse kill you.

Your Macbook Pro while it may be 4 years old, should at least be running the latest version of OSX (10.10). You should be comfortable knowing how to back up, install programs, and if something happens wipe the sucker and reinstall everything. Taking it to the Geeksquad is a great way to have some nitwit lock you out of your system ensuring you have to come back. I hope you have a tech savvy relative. If you do, make sure you reimburse him for his time.

Protip: If you know how to use Google, you can fix pretty much anything. I got my start fixing computers because I knew to put an error message in "quotations" into google. When my car started having problems, I searched Google and came to an automotive enthusiasts site that helped explain pretty much any question and more for my particular vehicle.

Agree.

Part of being a man is having dominion over the natural world. This includes current and past technology.

Buy a bag of nails and a length of 2x4 then hammer the nails in straight.

Don't be like this guy (NZs current prime minister).
He's a good PM though.

I should also add that i've actually found some incredibly deplorable repair work done by mechanics once I started really working on my car.

In the previous example, I found JB weld on a vacuum line that some nitwit broke that was causing hard shifts on my newer car. Apparently the dipshit mechanic from the dealer broke it and instead of getting a new part sealed it up with JB weld only to be found by me 5 years later when the transmission was refusing to upshift without a lot of effort.

Another one, I found some sort of rubberized sealant used to cover a nasty rust hole in the floor panel. If I hadn't fixed this, the car would have become a flintstone car! Removed that away, sanded down to bare metal, sealed up with an anti rusting component, and had my auto-body guy rivet some panels into place.

This car was purchased new from the same place too. Makes me wonder what other shoddy work was done. Glad to be rid of that demonic piece of crap!

Post: #19

Well, I'd rather spend my time making more money, thinking of ways to make more money or doing something I enjoy.

I respect your standpoints though guys.

Post: #20

I feel it is a balance between time and money. If it costs you more time than it would cost you money to do a certain task, you'd probably be better off hiring an expert to do it for you.

Think of your time in terms of dollars per hour. If you are currently making $30/hr at your current job or business, and you want to do a particular task. Consider how much time it would take you to do that task. If it will take you 20 hours to do it, that's worth $600 of your time. Can you find an expert to do it better than you can DIY, for around $600 or less?

While it is money out of your pocket, you can use that time to do something else. Such as doing another task that helps invest in or monetize your business.

Post: #21

I'm with Clean Slate. I've definitely made repairs when I couldn't afford to pay someone. Sometimes I've done repairs for fun.

But somethings end up costing time, material, and tools...and they're still not done right because it's my first and only time to make that repair.

That being said, I like upgrades but maintenance and repair less so.

Post: #22

Crashbang, I should add that I have done "serious" car repair work in almost 2 years. I got rid of my car. I did however do some fluid and filter changes on my girlfriend's car not too long ago.

If you come down to oxford with a tool kit,ramps, torque wrench, and a siphoning bottle and straws i'll show you how easy it is to do car work. You'd slap your knee and never take it to a mechanic again.

If anything, the difficulty in auto work comes from physical exertion on stupid bolts that are stuck in place or worse trying to push some pipe into place. There's a tool that makes every job easier.

I encourage every man to at least take an effort to understand his basic life's basic appliances. If anything to just to tell your kid or impress a woman on how it works.

Post: #23

(09-14-2015 03:55 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Jayguan, you know some Draino and the puncturing stick that comes with some of the packages would have solved that problem mighty fast

Maybe Draino could have worked for my situation? Ultimately, there was nearly 5 feet of clogged pipe, and some of the clogged section began several feet further, after the under the sink section.

Maybe part of the lesson also can be live and learn? and Draino may be a potential future solution... though NO two situations are likely going to be the same.

Post: #24

(09-14-2015 04:10 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 03:55 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  A man should know how to do basic car repair, fix his computer, and be savvy enough around basic tools. It's hilarious seeing how many clueless folks there are.

Why though and to what extent?

I don't care how my computer works. I certainly am not going to spend days/weeks learning about it on the off chance it goes wrong and I have to fix it.

Do I have to retrain myself every few years for the changes in technology? I've had my Macbook for 4 years and not a single thing has gone wrong with it.

Training myself to repair it would just be a complete waste of time I could spend doing other things that either actually interest me or could make me money.

My car is massively complicated and always under warranty. Aside from changing a tyre at the roadside, what benefit is there to me to learn anything about it whatsoever? If something goes wrong, the assist folk will be there within an hour. I'd rather gamble that hour of my life that might happen for the hours learning how it works.

Basic tools yeah, putting a screw in a wall or something, sure. Anything more complicated? No thanks. My time is worth more than a random handy man's so it makes no sense to swap my labour for his economically.

I think that there are NO absolutes, here, and each guy has to make his own weighing of the trade offs and what works for him, under his circumstances.

One good point, however, with anything in life, is that there is a certain quantity of learning that comes through experiencing a situation or at least doing some of a job in order to sometimes understand if you are being taken to the cleaners or whether you can sufficiently guide someone else in any task. Other times, guys may NOT need to know any of the technicals of how to do some project, so long as people performing work for them are sufficiently competent to carry out the technical tasks.

Post: #25

(09-14-2015 11:33 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 04:10 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 03:55 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  A man should know how to do basic car repair, fix his computer, and be savvy enough around basic tools. It's hilarious seeing how many clueless folks there are.

Why though and to what extent?

I don't care how my computer works. I certainly am not going to spend days/weeks learning about it on the off chance it goes wrong and I have to fix it.

Do I have to retrain myself every few years for the changes in technology? I've had my Macbook for 4 years and not a single thing has gone wrong with it.

Training myself to repair it would just be a complete waste of time I could spend doing other things that either actually interest me or could make me money.

My car is massively complicated and always under warranty. Aside from changing a tyre at the roadside, what benefit is there to me to learn anything about it whatsoever? If something goes wrong, the assist folk will be there within an hour. I'd rather gamble that hour of my life that might happen for the hours learning how it works.

Basic tools yeah, putting a screw in a wall or something, sure. Anything more complicated? No thanks. My time is worth more than a random handy man's so it makes no sense to swap my labour for his economically.

I think that there are NO absolutes, here, and each guy has to make his own weighing of the trade offs and what works for him, under his circumstances.

One good point, however, with anything in life, is that there is a certain quantity of learning that comes through experiencing a situation or at least doing some of a job in order to sometimes understand if you are being taken to the cleaners or whether you can sufficiently guide someone else in any task. Other times, guys may NOT need to know any of the technicals of how to do some project, so long as people performing work for them are sufficiently competent to carry out the technical tasks.

Jaygaun,

Seriously, did you know that Drano and those hooked sticks that come with them would have unclogged it mighty fast without disassembling the whole pipe work?

A plumber would most likely have done that or used a suction device to suck the gunk back up into a bag.