Post: #1

Gents,

A knowledgeable friend gave me the advice that it's easier to sleep with a girl if you're cool with her friends. I totally agree with this, but I have always interpreted it in terms of FEMALE friends.

My question is, would you hang out with the male friends of a girl that you are gaming, including those that want to sleep with her, as a way to get closer to her social circle -- or is that just a waste of energy?

The reason I ask:

The other night I went out to a club with a girl I'm interested in and some of her female friends. I was footing the bill for a nontrivial amount of bottle service, and the girl asked if she could invite a group of her male friends, one of which is the boyfriend of one of the other girls. I laughed and said no, they weren't welcome, and that I don't really want to hang out with a bunch of dudes. It didn't seem like the girls cared much, because they laughed and said they understood my point of view. If anything, I thought they respected me more for it. However, a few nights later they ended up hanging out with that other group of guys and I feel that I may have missed out on locking myself into a new social circle.

Thoughts?

Post: #2

(08-26-2015 08:51 PM)polymath Wrote:  Gents,

A knowledgeable friend gave me the advice that it's easier to sleep with a girl if you're cool with her friends. I totally agree with this, but I have always interpreted it in terms of FEMALE friends.

My question is, would you hang out with the male friends of a girl that you are gaming, including those that want to sleep with her, as a way to get closer to her social circle -- or is that just a waste of energy?

The reason I ask:

The other night I went out to a club with a girl I'm interested in and some of her female friends. I was footing the bill for a nontrivial amount of bottle service, and the girl asked if she could invite a group of her male friends, one of which is the boyfriend of one of the other girls. I laughed and said no, they weren't welcome, and that I don't really want to hang out with a bunch of dudes. It didn't seem like the girls cared much, because they laughed and said they understood my point of view. If anything, I thought they respected me more for it. However, a few nights later they ended up hanging out with that other group of guys and I feel that I may have missed out on locking myself into a new social circle.

Thoughts?

I hear ya. What I've done in similar situations is ask to see who the friends are (the girls will show their FB/IG/etc to you). Then you can judge if you think they are cool people you could be friends with, threats, orbiters, etc and proceed based on that evaluation. In other words, grab as much intel as possible before committing.

Post: #3

I think the smart move is to feel out how cool the guys are in the group.

A great new guy friend, is worth more than a few dozen hoes.

Post: #4

It's best to keep every single time you meet up with a girl to only you and her until you get a few bangs in.
Like its been said before there could be many guys that orbit her and want to cut you down since shes showing interest in you.
I work from a minimum 5 bangs across 5 separate times i meet up with her before i will meet ANYONE close to her.
It way harder for brothers/sisters, female/male friends to cock block you after you've banged her a few times.

All of this is assuming you want to keep her around.

Post: #5

(08-26-2015 08:51 PM)polymath Wrote:  I was footing the bill for a nontrivial amount of bottle service

Why were you footing a bottle service bill for a girl and her friends, especially one you hadn't slept with?

Post: #6

(08-27-2015 12:02 AM)kinjutsu Wrote:  It's best to keep every single time you meet up with a girl to only you and her until you get a few bangs in.
Like its been said before there could be many guys that orbit her and want to cut you down since shes showing interest in you.
I work from a minimum 5 bangs across 5 separate times i meet up with her before i will meet ANYONE close to her.
It way harder for brothers/sisters, female/male friends to cock block you after you've banged her a few times.

All of this is assuming you want to keep her around.

I would agree with this way of determining your response. If you have already laid pipe, you can simply be indifferent and say "It's fine/ Whatever babe/ I don't care" and it won't matter. They might become your new wingman or they could be a schmuck. Not impactful, if you've done your part so far. Chance of getting AMOG'd, I suppose, but unlikely. Her body language should tell the story to the group, but I'm sure you can handle it if an orbiter is a problem.

If you are working on a new prospect and you think she's down, I think saying "no" could be taken the wrong way somehow, even if it is the correct response eventually. Not that it makes any sense, but it's just the female brain. I'd respond to the 'can he/they meet up with us' inquiry with a short question. Something like, "I don't know, I like the good vibes we have. They cool or you asking a favor?" If you don't like the answer she gives, then you say your "no" or "eh, not tonight, maybe next time".

Just brainstorming. Interesting question, look forward to reading what others have to say.

Post: #7

Socially competent men (those with large circles and high reputations, which women find attractive) are not threatened by the company of competing men. They welcome it. Saying, "sure, why not?" and inviting them over, getting to know them, will increase the girl's confidence in your ability to socialize. It's also an opportunity to make new male friends, which can open other doors for you further down the road.

There's always a risk of male friends becoming protective, so use it as an opportunity to demonstrate social competence in front of her. Appearing needy and jealous tends to dry up the vagina. Later, you can use the presence of others as bargaining leverage to set aside one-on-one time with her.

Post: #8

I agree with Blick Mang.

You want to seem cool, breezy, and confident. Other dudes don't threaten you - besides, these "guy friends" are going to be around whether you like it or not so if you're in the spirit of meeting her clique you may as well meet the dudes too. Hell, if she's gonna fuck her guy friends then she's gonna do it regardless of whether you meet them or not.

Post: #9

(08-27-2015 06:07 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  Socially competent men (those with large circles and high reputations, which women find attractive) are not threatened by the company of competing men. They welcome it. Saying, "sure, why not?" and inviting them over, getting to know them, will increase the girl's confidence in your ability to socialize. It's also an opportunity to make new male friends, which can open other doors for you further down the road.

There's always a risk of male friends becoming protective, so use it as an opportunity to demonstrate social competence in front of her. Appearing needy and jealous tends to dry up the vagina. Later, you can use the presence of others as bargaining leverage to set aside one-on-one time with her.

Bingo right here. I'm with Travesty and Blick Mang. You lost frame right there. Though I'll always make the guys coming in foot a significant part of the bill to compensate for any possible grievance should they be losers(losers always will try to flaunt their money so it's easy to push the bill on them). Best case scenario they are actually legit cool dudes. Usually it's the latter more so than the former in every case so it ends up being a net win.

Also "competing" guys who come along are also great distractions to pull numbers or get other girls to join your crowd from wherever you are at. Odds are you won't lose the girls you came with anyways if you played your game right.

That and a cool new bro is better than a hoe you'll dump in a few months. A good friend is a few years or a lifetime of benefit while the hoe won't add shit in the long run unless she's a millionaire heiress party girl.

Corollary: get them to show you a Facebook or Instagram to screen so you can deal accordingly.

Post: #10

(08-27-2015 06:07 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  Socially competent men (those with large circles and high reputations, which women find attractive) are not threatened by the company of competing men. They welcome it. Saying, "sure, why not?" and inviting them over, getting to know them, will increase the girl's confidence in your ability to socialize. It's also an opportunity to make new male friends, which can open other doors for you further down the road.

This is true, but not everyone on this forum is at that level of social competence and in that case it's best to recognize and consider the risks before being so nonblase for people who are not social ninjas.

Post: #11

Quote:Socially competent men (those with large circles and high reputations, which women find attractive) are not threatened by the company of competing men. They welcome it. Saying, "sure, why not?" and inviting them over, getting to know them, will increase the girl's confidence in your ability to socialize. It's also an opportunity to make new male friends, which can open other doors for you further down the road.

There's always a risk of male friends becoming protective, so use it as an opportunity to demonstrate social competence in front of her. Appearing needy and jealous tends to dry up the vagina. Later, you can use the presence of others as bargaining leverage to set aside one-on-one time with her.

I have my answer. From the looks of things, I played the situation exactly wrong. Thanks Blick Mang.

Post: #12

I honestly think that this is a no-win situation. If you're footing the bill for bottle service when the girl has provided you with no sexual favours, you've already lost frame and she is going to categorize you as a better-beta provider.

There is no right way to respond when she wants to invites a bunch of other guys to socialize and probably spend your money. At this point she's just trying to find out how much she can squeeze out of you.

Your attitude should be, "I have lots of friends, but I'm always interested in meeting new people." When she wants to go out with a group (pre-bang), tell her that doing so would be fun, but you're interested in getting to know her better first, that large groups distract from the sort of honest conversation that you enjoy when you first meet someone new.

However, seeing a clusterfuck like this as an opportunity to expand your social circle is good. Since she's probably not going to bang you after you've already disrespected yourself by paying for bottle service for her and all her friends, using the opportunity to meet some other guys isn't a bad result, assuming that it turns out that they are cool.

Post: #13

If she has lots of male friends its a red flag.

Post: #14

Whether and how much to socialize with a girls female and male friends before you've banged her is a case by case decision. It's very situational, and you have to decide if it's more likely to help or cockblock you.

In this case, most likely you were right in refusing. Sounds like this girl wanted the guys to come over and leech off your bottles. Fuck that. You already had made the mistake of letting her friends drink your liquor, so she figured you were an easy mark.

Learn the lesson.

Post: #15

(08-29-2015 07:04 PM)Suits Wrote:  I honestly think that this is a no-win situation. If you're footing the bill for bottle service when the girl has provided you with no sexual favours, you've already lost frame and she is going to categorize you as a better-beta provider.

[...]

Since she's probably not going to bang you after you've already disrespected yourself by paying for bottle service for her and all her friends, using the opportunity to meet some other guys isn't a bad result, assuming that it turns out that they are cool.

I have seen this sort of comment quite a few times. It's the prevailing train of thought on this forum, one that most of us probably learned by experience.

Personally I think it is fearful to worry so much about spending money and having it interpreted as a sign of weakness. If you want to go out and have fun, sometimes it costs a little bit of coin to do it.

I don't see it as disrespecting myself to spend money doing something that I enjoy with a group of local friends while traveling. Maybe the girl sees it that way, maybe she sees it as me being a chump, but ultimately the biggest chump move would be to stay in my hotel room or chill alone at the bar to maintain a false sense of pride over a few hundred bucks.

That said, ultimately if the goal is to sleep with a girl, and you end up with your dick in your hands and an empty wallet in your pocket, then things clearly didn't work in your favor.

Post: #16

(08-29-2015 07:04 PM)Suits Wrote:  I honestly think that this is a no-win situation. If you're footing the bill for bottle service when the girl has provided you with no sexual favours, you've already lost frame and she is going to categorize you as a better-beta provider.

@Suits.

I wasn't gonna touch this post, but it sounds like you've had a change of heart. Or maybe i'm just missing something.

I was preparing a post called Hidden Jewels, which was collected gems on RVF from posters who I don't think get enough props and attention.

Doing my research last week, I ran across a bunch of insightful posts.

/thread-28153-...#pid536989
/thread-26900-...#pid810407
/thread-41040-...#pid866289

In each of these situations, the idea is to invite chicks out that a player hasn't banged, supply them with food, libation, entertainment and accommodation, and leverage that status into banging them LATER.

With respect to supplying the goods without getting anything in return, The only difference between what was suggested and what he's doing is, is that he's doing it at a public place.

Is it really just a question of dollars? He's doing it @ 600% mark up? He can't control the environment as much?

In terms of what they think of him,

If he has that kind of paper already, to pop bottles for a three + broads, they might already put him into the provider category without him spending a dime.

That fact that he describes the spending as non-trivial is more of a tell, than sponsoring some bottle rats imo.

Bigger than the appetizers debate, the underlying question is
- does her opinion of you matter
- can you change her opinion

And that's when we really get into the realm of game.

What actually makes a woman attracted to you.

WIA

Post: #17

I would've never met up with a chick bringing friends along. All you're doing is adding obstacles to you closing the deal. Even after I've fucked a chick I'm not interested in meeting her friends/hanging out with them.

Post: #18

(08-30-2015 07:23 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(08-29-2015 07:04 PM)Suits Wrote:  I honestly think that this is a no-win situation. If you're footing the bill for bottle service when the girl has provided you with no sexual favours, you've already lost frame and she is going to categorize you as a better-beta provider.

@Suits.

I wasn't gonna touch this post, but it sounds like you've had a change of heart. Or maybe i'm just missing something.

I was preparing a post called Hidden Jewels, which was collected gems on RVF from posters who I don't think get enough props and attention.

Doing my research last week, I ran across a bunch of insightful posts.

/thread-28153-...#pid536989
/thread-26900-...#pid810407
/thread-41040-...#pid866289

In each of these situations, the idea is to invite chicks out that a player hasn't banged, supply them with food, libation, entertainment and accommodation, and leverage that status into banging them LATER.

With respect to supplying the goods without getting anything in return, The only difference between what was suggested and what he's doing is, is that he's doing it at a public place.

The big difference is this:

OP wants to bang a girl. If he could bang her without buying all her friend's bottle service first (and he knew it) he would. I doubt he is trying to delay the bang so that is more special or something.

The purpose of my efforts to organize social outings and throw parties is to get myself connected with women who I might otherwise not meet or to make it more efficient to build value in front of women that are weak leads.

If I know a girl and I'm reasonably sure that I can bang her without inviting her to a group event, I'll simply meet her one-on-one and try to bang her.

A group of event aims at getting less attractive girls, weak leads and girls I don't have time to meet one-on-one to introduce me to their hotter friends or to use group dynamics to turn weak leads into strong leads thanks to jealousy.

If a guy has money to blow and wants to make it rain in the club, I'd totally support him buying bottle service and inviting all his weak leads and less attractive leads and telling them to bring their cute friends.

He can use this as an opportunity to walk away with stronger leads and build value with girls who might otherwise not want to meet him one-on-one.

In OP's case, he is buying bottle service for all her friends because he wants to bang HER. If he had given up on her and wanted to trying banging her friends instead, this approach would make sense.

However, ultimately, you want to invite women into your world.

If you are going to pay for bottle service, you should invite your best bros or some fellow players. THEN, you invite them to join YOU for something you would be doing anyway, whether they came or not.

This is radically different them going to the club with HER friends and footing the entire bill.


To recap, the two big differences:

(1) Don't try to bang girls by spending money on her AND her friends. Instead, you should be isolating.

(2) You should be inviting her into your world, not simply footing the bill to make HER bottle service dreams come true.


Does that make sense?

Post: #19

(08-30-2015 06:23 PM)polymath Wrote:  

(08-29-2015 07:04 PM)Suits Wrote:  I honestly think that this is a no-win situation. If you're footing the bill for bottle service when the girl has provided you with no sexual favours, you've already lost frame and she is going to categorize you as a better-beta provider.

[...]

Since she's probably not going to bang you after you've already disrespected yourself by paying for bottle service for her and all her friends, using the opportunity to meet some other guys isn't a bad result, assuming that it turns out that they are cool.

I have seen this sort of comment quite a few times. It's the prevailing train of thought on this forum, one that most of us probably learned by experience.

Personally I think it is fearful to worry so much about spending money and having it interpreted as a sign of weakness. If you want to go out and have fun, sometimes it costs a little bit of coin to do it.

I don't see it as disrespecting myself to spend money doing something that I enjoy with a group of local friends while traveling. Maybe the girl sees it that way, maybe she sees it as me being a chump, but ultimately the biggest chump move would be to stay in my hotel room or chill alone at the bar to maintain a false sense of pride over a few hundred bucks.

If you can honestly say that even if you knew 100% that you would NEVER EVER sleep with this girl (i.e., she has a strange disorder and cannot be physically touched by another human being without falling unconscious) and buying her and all her friends bottle service sound like a fun time, then no harm, no foul.

It's your money, you worked hard to earn it, spend it however makes you happy. I sincerely mean that.

Quote:That said, ultimately if the goal is to sleep with a girl, and you end up with your dick in your hands and an empty wallet in your pocket, then things clearly didn't work in your favor.

That's the key. My question would be, if you want to bang her, why don't you simply try to isolate her and run Tuth's first date bang recipe?

Taking her and her friends to the club seems to be an unnecessary extra step.

If you aren't already giving a girl vagina tingles (if you are giving her the tingle, she'll be open to isolation and you should just run the first date bang recipe), spending money on her and her friends is not going to give her tingles.



There's a better option for these cases. As WIA has reference above, I am an advocate for organizing social events and parties.

Spending an evening with just one girl that you want to bang (and all her friends) is inefficient. Instead, invite ALL the girls who will not allow you to isolate them for the bang into an environment (that you control) specifically designed to give your social value a big boost. Sure, you probably won't bang most of them in the end, but a few will probably come around when they see you surrounded by other attractive women (they don't know who you can/cannot bang, so it will put the jealousy factor on maximum) and if they all bring a couple female friends, this may lead to new bangs as well.

Post: #20

(08-30-2015 07:23 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  ...

Bigger than the appetizers debate, the underlying question is
- does her opinion of you matter
- can you change her opinion

And that's when we really get into the realm of game.

What actually makes a woman attracted to you.

WIA

This is the start of a fundamental discussion gentlemen.

Do you think the reasons for attraction are static? Are all women attracted to the same things regardless of time/location/age/status/etc.?

If you use your resources to do something for a girl, is it always considered submissive or a try-hard attempt to impress? Does it matter?