Post: #1

I spent the new years eve with some friends (both males and females, some were couples).

During the conversation within the group, some topics came up and it was implied that all the other males that were in the group were more attractive than me, this was implied by both males and females.

Where I live my looks are not the best to stand out or are considered the best. Still, I think I have some good features in my face and I am average height where I live, and average among my male friends.

I just recently started a business right now so my focus is not that much girls right now but still... I look almost the best I can right now and the past few months, good hygiene, nice body and athletic, full head of hair with a trendy haircut, no noticeable thing that could put me down etc...

I just cant figure it out, why even putting the most work and being average, I cant land a average girl, unless I travel abroad and in the right places.

It just beats me. Its not the lack of girlfriend, but more like the lack of genuine interest from most females I've been around. I do get some matches on tinder and they are more or less but I still just feel like Im an outcast and some of my friends that told me that I was worse looking than xyz are not that "good looking" themselves, neither the xyz.

I also see a trend where most girls just prefer very skinny guys over a very decent athletic build with the right amount of muscle.

I wont post a pic of me here, but can you tell me what you think it might be wrong with my look? Im also not afraid of talking and approaching so thats not the thing.

Post: #2

They probably are right.
Some of us are ugly... work with what you got my dude.
Level up in other ways.

Post: #3

I didn't read the post but just be glad that you're a man and not a woman

Post: #4

Here is an idea:

Find a new circle of friends, quickly.

What if next time they decide that you are also stupid, not only ugly??

Run.

Post: #5

OP is from Portugal, I believe? Look at your country's hero / international spokesperson: Cristiano Ronaldo.

CR7 has maximized his looks by being in top physical condition. Go to the gym and have a good diet.

Post: #6

Three possibilities come to mind:

1) Your face is unattractive.
2) There is something about your demeanour - body language, behaviour, or even the way you speak - that's unattractive and puts people off.
3) You are bad at evaluating male attractiveness. You might actually be below average, while your friends are average. Alternatively, you might be average, but your friends are actually above average.

Of course, those possibilities are not mutually exclusive.

If you're getting some matches off Tinder, 1) is probably not such a big problem. Keep in mind dating is tough in 2018. Even banging average girls can be hard if you don't have above average looks and/or tight game. The subject has been discussed extensively in RVF.

2) and 3) are things you should think long and hard about. Maybe ask a girl friend if there's anything she finds odd about your behaviour. And try to think about male attractiveness more objectively. Which guys are your female friends attracted to?

Another thing to consider are the dating dynamics in Portugal (assuming that's where you are). From what I've read, social circle is very important in the Portuguese scene. That might be the reason why you do better abroad - you can get by with your looks / online persona instead of social circle.

One advantage you've got is that you are aware there's a problem and contemplating how to fix it. This gives you an edge. As Sourcecode said, you should work with what you've got. So identify what's holding you back and optimise the good things you have going for you to work around it.

Post: #7

If I was Portuguese, I would be a gym rat and rock the CR7 underwear around girls:

Post: #8

My thoughts:

1) If they called you ugly to your face, you need new friends. I wouldn't take that disrespect
2) Looks aren't everything to girls. If you're not doing well i'd bet it's your game or something off-putting about your personality that you're not aware of. Good looks just give a guy a slightly larger beta margin of error but you'll still be getting blown out/dumped/whatever..
3) Watch this podcast and do the 5 things they suggest:






Cliffnotes for the podcast:

1) Style: Don’t get too attached to a certain style.

A) Fit is king. Price isn’t as important than fit/look so don't get caught up in brandnames.

Look at the style of the guys that are attracting the girls that you want to attract. Check men's magazines for the latest looks.

Boots, jean, t-shirt, and jacket.

Learn how to color coordinate. Watches, belts, and boots must match!

Jewelry: Watch, bracelets, and necklaces with gems.

Cologne’s: Eros by Versace, Victoria’s Secret for Him, Cool Water by Davidoff, burberry touch

This stuff sub communicates that you have lots of female friends that you learned your style from.

2) Hygiene/Grooming: Bathe and use deodorant daily.

A) Shaving can reduce bo in your pits and groin.

3) Physical Health: Work-out, take vitamins and supplements.

4) Tattoos: Nah son(for me at least).

I don't remember no. 5.

Post: #9

Get some gainz bruh.... then you can be a butterface

Post: #10

(01-01-2019 12:38 PM)Rushmore Wrote:  Here is an idea:

Find a new circle of friends, quickly.

What if next time they decide that you are also stupid, not only ugly??

Run.

Im 28, it took me a lot to build this circle of friends and tbh in my country is just hard to make a new one out of nothing.

So, I have to continue with this.

Post: #11

I wouldn't hang out with people that regard you in such a low manner. I would distance myself from that toxicity. I'd rather hang out by myself or go out bar hopping and mingle with some locals rather than be the runt of a social circle.

Post: #12

(01-01-2019 01:26 PM)Super Average Man Wrote:  Three possibilities come to mind:

1) Your face is unattractive.
2) There is something about your demeanour - body language, behaviour, or even the way you speak - that's unattractive and puts people off.
3) You are bad at evaluating male attractiveness. You might actually be below average, while your friends are average. Alternatively, you might be average, but your friends are actually above average.

Of course, those possibilities are not mutually exclusive.

If you're getting some matches off Tinder, 1) is probably not such a big problem. Keep in mind dating is tough in 2018. Even banging average girls can be hard if you don't have above average looks and/or tight game. The subject has been discussed extensively in RVF.

2) and 3) are things you should think long and hard about. Maybe ask a girl friend if there's anything she finds odd about your behaviour. And try to think about male attractiveness more objectively. Which guys are your female friends attracted to?

1) My face is average at worst, I may not have any particularly stand out features but its definitely a face without any "bad thing". Like I said, average at worst.

2) Up until some time ago I was pretty much the guy that lighted the room in terms of bringing people together and conversational skills. I avoid conflict most times because I dont like people yelling or someone holding a grudge on me, but will stand up for me if someone, including my friends, goes to hard on me.

Some people like to put others down in the group to be viewed better, I recognize some of the guys of my group might do that from time to time, but they never cross a limit that I drawn from the beginning and that I cultivate with respect for the others.

3) Honestly my friends are a little over average right now, but a lot of them already are starting to have norwood knocking at their doors and grey hairs, while I might be headed there in the next few years, for now Im good.

(01-01-2019 01:26 PM)Super Average Man Wrote:  Another thing to consider are the dating dynamics in Portugal (assuming that's where you are). From what I've read, social circle is very important in the Portuguese scene. That might be the reason why you do better abroad - you can get by with your looks / online persona instead of social circle.

One advantage you've got is that you are aware there's a problem and contemplating how to fix it. This gives you an edge. As Sourcecode said, you should work with what you've got. So identify what's holding you back and optimise the good things you have going for you to work around it.

Yep, dating dynamics in Portugal are fucked up.

Will try to optimize all the other stuff, with a focus on my business.

Post: #13

Are you going to whine and rationalize and stay ugly or actually going to do something about it?

Post: #14

(01-01-2019 01:23 PM)Day Game Bang Wrote:  OP is from Portugal, I believe? Look at your country's hero / international spokesperson: Cristiano Ronaldo.

CR7 has maximized his looks by being in top physical condition. Go to the gym and have a good diet.

I am also from Portugal, and certainly not like Cristiano Ronaldo. I told OP in other thread to get new friends, I will repeat myself here. That is childish talk among a group of supposedly grown up people.

OP has my number and I am open to meet him for a sincere opinion. I have helped many guys in my circle of people... People just have to be ready or ask me to put them in the line of fire.

And yeah...dating dynamics suck in Portugal if you stick to Portuguese women. Plenty of foreigners around in the major cities. Also Portuguese social groups mostly suck. What you need is like minded guys, even if they have their own circles. You can get them in combat sports, or other expat guys also.

Plus social groups are overrated. The same girls passed around by the same guys...that is just stupid little village mentality.

What you need is to be the outsider in several social groups. Who everybody wants to hang around with, but is busy most of the times with other groups/activities.

Post: #15

(01-01-2019 04:39 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(01-01-2019 01:23 PM)Day Game Bang Wrote:  OP is from Portugal, I believe? Look at your country's hero / international spokesperson: Cristiano Ronaldo.

CR7 has maximized his looks by being in top physical condition. Go to the gym and have a good diet.

I am also from Portugal, and certainly not like Cristiano Ronaldo. I told OP in other thread to get new friends, I will repeat myself here. That is childish talk among a group of supposedly grown up people.

OP has my number and I am open to meet him for a sincere opinion. I have helped many guys in my circle of people... People just have to be ready or ask me to put them in the line of fire.

And yeah...dating dynamics suck in Portugal if you stick to Portuguese women. Plenty of foreigners around in the major cities. Also Portuguese social groups mostly suck. What you need is like minded guys, even if they have their own circles. You can get them in combat sports, or other expat guys also.

Plus social groups are overrated. The same girls passed around by the same guys...that is just stupid little village mentality.

What you need is to be the outsider in several social groups. Who everybody wants to hang around with, but is busy most of the times with other groups/activities.

Hey brother, I changed my phone 3 months ago, send me your number by pm again, sorry.

Post: #16

(01-01-2019 02:12 PM)pk9090 Wrote:  Im 28, it took me a lot to build this circle of friends and tbh in my country is just hard to make a new one out of nothing.

So, I have to continue with this.

Some advice from Uncle Rattie:

Never accept disrespect from people, who are supposed to be your friends.

Finding new friends will not be easy, and maybe you might not find new friends.

But hanging around people who disrespect you is far, far worse.

Post: #17

(01-01-2019 12:17 PM)pk9090 Wrote:  During the conversation within the group, some topics came up and it was implied that all the other males that were in the group were more attractive than me, this was implied by both males and females.

Where I live my looks are not the best to stand out or are considered the best. Still, I think I have some good features in my face and I am average height where I live, and average among my male friends.

Fuck hanging out with people like that. If they are putting you down in a group, get a new fucking group!

Regarding your looks, do you have: white straight teeth, a nice relaxed smile, no monobrow, no try-hard moustache or pathetic facial hair, good posture, clean skin which is not covered in blackheads/oily/acne, dress in well-fitting clothing, no large gut or extra weight around the middle, a decent masculine hairstyle.

Post: #18

You have an ugly face bro, that's life. So do I, but I work with what i got. I suggest you focus on your money and personality, you CANT be both ugly and broke, that's a real death sentence homie.

Post: #19

(01-01-2019 01:23 PM)Day Game Bang Wrote:  OP is from Portugal, I believe? Look at your country's hero / international spokesperson: Cristiano Ronaldo.

CR7 has maximized his looks by being in top physical condition. Go to the gym and have a good diet.

He maximized his looks with surgeries and getting his teeth done, as a teen he was pretty ugly.

Post: #20

Whether you're attractive or not compared to your peers is an uncommon topic of conversation, especially in front of everyone.

If they were going to talk down about you, it would be more polite to do it behind your back in my opinion.

I have a feeling that the reason this came up and stayed the topic of conversation is because someone felt that this might have been a soft spot or a weak point in your confidence for you.

I don't care if you're ugly or not ugly, you should read about handling shit tests.

From the sound of things they might have seen you were a bit shaken.

Maintaining frame can be tough. Here's a couple good examples I think you can rely on

Basic calling out bad behavior:





Agree and escalate:





Developing a greater inner respect for yourself and confidence will let you know how to differentiate between when you should outright say nothing( demonstrating what was said is insignificant to you) and the other times when you should engage a challenge.

Good luck to you, Don't feel to bad about being challenged by others shit tests because sometimes you are seen as someone near equal in social ranking and they are afraid you will usurp them. Also, understand that this skill takes time to develop, you will get better along the way but like everyone else we all occasionally miss here and there.

Post: #21

As others have said: they are probably right, but some of it may be fixable. For the rest that is not, suck it up and learn where you truly stand.
Also, get better friends.

Post: #22

Its Never right to call someone ugly if they are considered part of the friend circle.

If they were good friends they would suggest working on xyz part of your image.. or this part of your personality.

They would say "He's nice and we love him, but I don't know if I would date him I see him as a friend" etc. etc..

Post: #23

Try to meet some forum member with good reputation. You need somebody honest who can tell you what is going on and that might be something else not related to your looks.

Post: #24

The only "natural" I ever met in my life was a funny ass chubby dude from Fiji.
You wouldn't look twice at him on the street, he worked a mediocre job and drove a Honda civic. None of that mattered when it came time to hang out or party. Everyone that ever hung out with him never forgot his name because of his positivity, humor and confidence which rewarded him with a high level of respect from all the guys he hung out with. He was the first and only person to make me question my perspectives on Hypergamy when I saw how everyone (guys and girls) was drawn to him. And this was in Long Beach, CA mind you, one of the most vapid, shallow places on earth.

He was always upbeat, had funny ass dance moves and killed with the most random snapchat shit you've ever seen. All he needed to get going was a beer or two. He never drank too much, got sloppy, angry, aggressive or serious. For him, going out meant an opportunity to be random, spontaneous, and do shit that was funny for him, regardless of what the yuppy crowd looking on might think. To this day I still remember what it was like to party with him and the vibes he gave off - a real idol for anyone looking to make a change in their social lives.

Post: #25

(01-02-2019 10:27 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  The only "natural" I ever met in my life was a funny ass chubby dude from Fiji.
You wouldn't look twice at him on the street, he worked a mediocre job and drove a Honda civic. None of that mattered when it came time to hang out or party. Everyone that ever hung out with him never forgot his name because of his positivity, humor and confidence which rewarded him with a high level of respect from all the guys he hung out with. He was the first and only person to make me question my perspectives on Hypergamy when I saw how everyone (guys and girls) was drawn to him. And this was in Long Beach, CA mind you, one of the most vapid, shallow places on earth.

He was always upbeat, had funny ass dance moves and killed with the most random snapchat shit you've ever seen. All he needed to get going was a beer or two. He never drank too much, got sloppy, angry, aggressive or serious. For him, going out meant an opportunity to be random, spontaneous, and do shit that was funny for him, regardless of what the yuppy crowd looking on might think. To this day I still remember what it was like to party with him and the vibes he gave off - a real idol for anyone looking to make a change in their social lives.

Hypergamy can also be social status as well.